Spideyfreak110
Member
My bad, please delete this post.
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Potter power: Universal sets 12-month attendance record.
- Thread starter SleepingMonk
- Start date
cheezbat
Well-Known Member
While Toy Story MIdway Mania IS a fun ride, it's not really too cutting edge.
The only thing that's truly cutting edge about that attraction is Mr Potato Head. He's a great animatronic. Too bad he messes up quite often and has to be reset. Of the three times I've been in line at DHS, twice this has happened, and out of the three times I've been in line at DCA, it's happened THREE times. That's five out of six visits he's broken down. :lol: Still, with that advanced animatronic technology, I sort of expect it.
I love both Disney and Universal. There's nothing wrong with liking both. But while Disney will always be a memorable theme park mecca, the new cutting edge attractions aren't opening at Disney. Universal is the ones taking things higher. While not every ride and attraction that Disney builds has to be something geared towards me, It is nice now and then to see an exciting E-ticket thrill ride added to at least ONE of the four parks every five years or so.
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
These threads all go the same way... People say Disney made a bad business decision not getting harry potter and the pixie dust brigade attacks... Then the thread eventually gets shut down because things get personal...
Anyway, let's examine a bit, and no I am not going to take the time to post the numbers, look for them yourselves!!!
WDW attendance last year dropped in all parks but Animal Kingdom... Sales of Disney merchandise dropped.... IOA and USO attendance INCREASED in record numbers... Merchandise sales went through the roof, thanks to Harry Potter...
What would kids want today?? A plastic princess tiara, Mickey plush doll, or a Harry Potter wand??? Guess the Potter wand wins...
Disney made a bad decision... Simple as that... Is it costing them?? I think so... numbers don't lie... A drop in attendance while your competitor gains business is not always a good thing... And before people say that guests visit both, if that is the case, then Disney has a LOT to worry about... This year, 2011, we MAY see IOA challenge and maybe even take over Animal Kingdom and DHS in attendance... but then, Disney will counter with another video game ride... and the DOM-Pixie Dust Brigade will brag how TDO knows what it is doing, how Disney does everything right, and how a video game ride is so much more technologically advanced than anythign Universal does...
Anyway, let's examine a bit, and no I am not going to take the time to post the numbers, look for them yourselves!!!
WDW attendance last year dropped in all parks but Animal Kingdom... Sales of Disney merchandise dropped.... IOA and USO attendance INCREASED in record numbers... Merchandise sales went through the roof, thanks to Harry Potter...
What would kids want today?? A plastic princess tiara, Mickey plush doll, or a Harry Potter wand??? Guess the Potter wand wins...
Disney made a bad decision... Simple as that... Is it costing them?? I think so... numbers don't lie... A drop in attendance while your competitor gains business is not always a good thing... And before people say that guests visit both, if that is the case, then Disney has a LOT to worry about... This year, 2011, we MAY see IOA challenge and maybe even take over Animal Kingdom and DHS in attendance... but then, Disney will counter with another video game ride... and the DOM-Pixie Dust Brigade will brag how TDO knows what it is doing, how Disney does everything right, and how a video game ride is so much more technologically advanced than anythign Universal does...
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
I've made plenty. You simply don't agree with them. I,unlike you, can seem to understand the difference between an opinion and a fact.
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
It really is as simple as this.
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
Not possible. You can only like one or the other. If you like one, you are a hater of the other. You must make a decision NOW!
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Just realized I had to fix my post.. LOL. if you want to edit it to show what i really meant to say, then feel free..
But, in essence, this is the simple gist of it...
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
the Pixie Dust Brigade may not like this, and I am probably going to be called a Disney hater but, I shaved off 3 days at disney's parks and added those days to Universal... so, 3 and a half days at disney parks... 3 ful days at IOA/USO... not doing Mickeys Not So Special Halloween Borefest this year (nothing changes again)... instead, doing the number one theme park halloween celebration HHN!!!!
BigThunderMatt
Well-Known Member
That queue is the lamest queue I have ever seen. I work for Disney, I love Disney. I love the queue for TSMM at DCA. But the queue for TSMM at DHS is the most on-the-cheap queue Disney has ever put out. Take out the rails and the decorations in the main queue room where you spend the majority of your time, and you've got a standard lunchroom complete with generic ceiling tiles, fluorescent lights, and drywall. There is NOTHING remotely imaginative about it.
Now take Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey's queue. That is the way Disney USED to make queues into completely immersive experiences. HP's queue is on par with Tower of Terror, Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean (in Florida), Expedition Everst, and Star Tours. When I go on Forbidden Journey, I feel like I'm actually in Hogwarts. I catch new little details all the time.
When I go on TSMM and am stuck in that horrid stand-by queue, I feel like I'm in the room that Disney ran out of money on when they were 3/4 of the way through building the attraction. So they plopped that expensive Potato Head in there hoping he'd detract from how utterly plain the rest of the room is.
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Also, isn't the wait time for TSMM inflated due to horrible hourly capacity, not so much popularity??? Not saying it isn't popular, but saying TSMM's 90 minute waits makes it as popular as Forbidden Journey is laughable since capacity in TSMM is horrible...
stlbobby
Well-Known Member
No you haven't. You have repeated your opinion over and over, insulted people, dissed Disney, contradicted yourself, and twisted other posters words, but you have yet to post one fact that builds on your original contention or contradicts mine.
Stopping your feet and throwing out platitudes is not making an argument.
I want you to quote your own posts that have you making an argument in support of your contention that:
Remember just restating it with new words and new insults isn't a valid argument.
You will now ignore this line of discussion just like you did with the "ignorant" argument when you were proven wrong, and how you dropped the Marvel discussion when it was proven that it actually supported my point rather than yours.
stlbobby
Well-Known Member
As I have said before the idea of putting people in the game and doing more to participate rather than just ride along is the innovation. The technology isn't cutting edge it's the idea. And it's an idea people love.
WDW has also innovated in other ways of bringing guest into the action, such as the Jedi Training Academy and Pirates League. These are new inventive ways to make guests happy. They aren't technology based whiz bang gadgets, but isn't the goal to make people happy and give them an experience to cherish? Disney is definitely cutting edge in that area.
Remember theme parks aren't all about thrill rides, especially Disney parks, but Disney has been doing their part in that area: 2003-Mission: Space, 2005 Soarin', 2006 Expedition Everest, and the upcoming Seven Dwarfs roller Coaster. For parks where thrill rides are clearly secondary that's a pretty good record.
Finally I have not said one bad thing about US on this thread. I absolutely think you can like both. I have only defended Disney against the repeated attacks from the haters.
My original post and my original point was that both sides were going to take this single piece of information, that HP dramatically increased US attendance, and turn this thread into a series of over the top statements on both sides. So far only the Disney haters have shown up, but they have been way over the top.
stlbobby
Well-Known Member
Take out the decorations and nothing is left? If you take the decorations out of any attraction then there's nothing left.
If you took the wheels off Space Mountain it would be boring. If you took the drop off the end of Splash Mountain it would be boring. If you took the animatronics out of the Hall of Presidents it would be boring.
Of course a cue is going to be boring if you take out the decorations.
stlbobby
Well-Known Member
Here is an actual argument made to support a point, but the problem is you erred by not getting the facts correct. While some of the WDW parks were off just a bit in attendance about 1%, the resort as a whole increased attendance.IoA would have to almost double what it did in 2010, the year HP opened, to overtake DHS. IoA isn't even the highest attended US park. That honor goes to US Japan. IoA is 12th on the list behind something in South Korea called Everland.
I'm not saying IoA can not ever come close or even pass one of the Disney Parks, but the resorts as a whole are not even competing in the same realm. Disney parks had almost 5 times as many guests as US parks did in 2010, again the year HP opened. All these figures come from TEA/AECOM 2010 report.
As far as merchandise figures I don't know where you got them and I have nothing to refute them, but until I see a source for this I am skeptical. I know HP sold a ton of wands, but to claim all the US merchandise outsold all the Disney merchandise is a bit far fetched. And remember everyone that goes to US and buys a Marvel toy is actually putting more money in Disney's pocket. So strong sales at US are a direct boon for Disney.
As I said before US made a great call getting HP and executed it well, but Disney's passing on it wasn't the catastrophe you and others are making it out to be. That is what the facts show.
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Can you point out where WDW attendance increased last year?? MK down, Epcot down, DHS down, all from 2009 to 2010... AK increased slightly.. So, if 2010 numbers are down from 2009 numbers, how is that an increase???
IOA and USO, as you pointed out, have seen low attendance numbers... No one has disputed that.. but HP made those numbers JUMP... while it is true the numbers still don't meet Disney's, the fact that in 1 year attendance grew 30 somewhat percent, and in the 3rd quarter this year it is up 41% from last year, while Disney's is pretty flatline, speaks volumes... Not good for Disney... Disney also has what, 20 times the land space that Universal orlando has??? Disney BETTER have more guests on property.. In fact, Disney's theme park attendance in the 3rd quarter this year increased 1% in the U.S. right??? Someone stated Disneyland was up 3% the 3rd quarter... if Disneyland was up 3%, and the U.S. Disney parks were up 1%, then WDW was DOWN and down big...
As far as the merchandise, it's been stated here (on the site not this thread) that Universal has shown one heck on an increase in merchandise sales... All you need to do is look at Disney's SEC filings, annual reports, and quarterly earnings reports to find their numbers... Orlando Sentinel probably has both resorts earnings filings somewhere on their site... and it isn't really farfetched to assume HP merchandise outsold Disney's.. Disney's merchandise is bland... it is the same every store you walk into... Personally, I no longer spend any money in Disney on merchandise... it is too generic... When wands in HP are sold out, and butterbeer sold 1,000,000 units by the first year of operations, and broomsticks are sold out, and people buy the Hogwarts school scarfs, i think it is safe to assume merchandise is selling better than Disney's...
And while it may not be a catastrophy, and I still don't see where anyone here said that, (I only see people saying it was dumb for Disney to pass on it), numbers do not lie... WDW attendance DECREASED from 2009 to 2010.. Universal's and IOA's attendance INCREASED... Earnings reports from Disney shows merchandise sales lagging behind (until they decided to jack u the prices to make up the difference for lower sales)...
No one here is saying Disney is going out of business or will shut down because no one is going.. People are going... that's for sure... but, cannot dispute the negative affect Potter has had on WDW... proof is proof, numbers don't lie.. And numbers show a negative impact...
invader
Well-Known Member
Disney E-Tickets Timeline Span
- Everest April 7, 2006
- Soarin' May 5, 2005
- Mission:Space August 15, 2003
- Rock N Roller Coaster July 29, 1999
- Test Track March 17, 1999
- Splash Mountain October 2, 1992
- Big Thunder Mountain November 15, 1980
- Space Mountain January 15, 1975
This has been the second longest time it's been since a major attraction / theme park has been announced / planned / developed / opened at Walt Disney World.
While Disney hasn't announced anything, UNI has opened two major attractions and has been raking in money.
- Everest April 7, 2006
- Soarin' May 5, 2005
- Mission:Space August 15, 2003
- Rock N Roller Coaster July 29, 1999
- Test Track March 17, 1999
- Splash Mountain October 2, 1992
- Big Thunder Mountain November 15, 1980
- Space Mountain January 15, 1975
This has been the second longest time it's been since a major attraction / theme park has been announced / planned / developed / opened at Walt Disney World.
While Disney hasn't announced anything, UNI has opened two major attractions and has been raking in money.
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
No one has said it, myself included. He's accused me at least 3 times now of insulting people. The only person insulted is himself because his argument holds no water. As you said, the numbers don't lie. He's just choosing to ignore them and paint himself as the victim and everyone else as the bad guy.
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
Now you're just making crap up and making no sense.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
First, WDW attendance as a whole was down last year. Not up. 3 of the 4 parks all had decreases in attendance. Including Epcot and MK, so a 1% decrease at the MK is double what a 1% increase at AK can make up. Throw in Epcot and DHS decreases, and the numbers are easy enough to see. WDW had lower attendance last year then the year before.
Universal Orlando Resort will NEVER pass WDW in attendance. It's size prevents that from ever happening. However. US and IOA may very well play to more packed houses over the course of a year. The whole point is, WWoHP was/is a HUGE success. And WDW has been resting on its laurels, and is paying the price in attendance right now.
To your last point. I do not believe it is HP directly pulling down WDW numbers. I think it is more that WDW has been sitting on its hands for half a decade. If WDW had made a move to counter WWoHP, then I think both parks would have had increased numbers. However, Disney did nothing, and now they are no longer the front of the line cutting edge of theme park design. Which is kind of sad. Tack on some of the general malaise from WDW regular, due to the general lack of maintenance and new experiences, and it is a recipe for more migration to Universal Studios. I know I am spending more and more time there as the years go by.
donsullivan
Premium Member
I'll likely regret jumping into this name-calling food fight but thought I'd try and bring a little bit of historical fact to the discussion. The two charts below record the historical attendance data for WDW and UO for a little more than the last decade. One important point in the data is the both charts are exactly the same scale so the visual reference and the clear difference in numbers is completely accurate.
There is no question that Universal has seen a nice uptick in attendance as a result of the investment in Harry Potter. Disney would have seen a similar uptick in attendance had they chosen to go forward and make the investment for Harry Potter. There have been a lot of reports that Disney passed since given the control they would have had to give over to JKR and the net profit they would have at the end, it didn't fit their profitability models which is their decision to make.
If you look at the data starting around 2004 you can see that Universal had been seeing a continuing decline in attendance for many years with a slight flattening around the opening of The Mummy in 2006. A lot of that decline was a direct result of that park stagnating with almost no investment in IOA since it opened. But the bottom line of this is that never, since Universal Orlando has opened has the combined attendance of both parks ever reached the attendance of the Magic Kingdom alone. This has to be kept in perspective when considering the impact one investment has on a competitor.
Yes, Universal made a good investment that is returning very well for them with the choice of Harry Potter. However, none of us has any data as to whether that has resulted in improved profits (they are a business after all) but it certainly has increased their attendance numbers. The first 6 months of those numbers are factored into the chart below. But anyone suggesting that it will kill Disney or have any other massive negative impact is not seeing the whole picture. One or the other does not have to be crushed for both of them to succeed. The competition between two major players in the market can only improve the experience for us all.
There is no question that Universal has seen a nice uptick in attendance as a result of the investment in Harry Potter. Disney would have seen a similar uptick in attendance had they chosen to go forward and make the investment for Harry Potter. There have been a lot of reports that Disney passed since given the control they would have had to give over to JKR and the net profit they would have at the end, it didn't fit their profitability models which is their decision to make.
If you look at the data starting around 2004 you can see that Universal had been seeing a continuing decline in attendance for many years with a slight flattening around the opening of The Mummy in 2006. A lot of that decline was a direct result of that park stagnating with almost no investment in IOA since it opened. But the bottom line of this is that never, since Universal Orlando has opened has the combined attendance of both parks ever reached the attendance of the Magic Kingdom alone. This has to be kept in perspective when considering the impact one investment has on a competitor.
Yes, Universal made a good investment that is returning very well for them with the choice of Harry Potter. However, none of us has any data as to whether that has resulted in improved profits (they are a business after all) but it certainly has increased their attendance numbers. The first 6 months of those numbers are factored into the chart below. But anyone suggesting that it will kill Disney or have any other massive negative impact is not seeing the whole picture. One or the other does not have to be crushed for both of them to succeed. The competition between two major players in the market can only improve the experience for us all.