Potter power: Universal sets 12-month attendance record.

[captainkidd]

I used to work at Universal. IOA's capacity before Potter was around 35,000. USF was around 40,000.

Interesting.

I'm guessing that's pretty close to what DHS max is as well then. Maybe it's because Magic Kingdom has more attractions than any of the other parks?:shrug:

 

[stlbobby]

I'm a Disney fanatic, I hate HP, and even I can see they screwed up big time. Anyone who doesn't see it just being ignorant.

Post #22, word for word.

Did you or did you not post this?

No one has said it, myself included. He's accused me at least 3 times now of insulting people. The only person insulted is himself because his argument holds no water. As you said, the numbers don't lie. He's just choosing to ignore them and paint himself as the victim and everyone else as the bad guy.

Calling people "ignorant" is an insult. How can you keep saying you didn't insult people when the post is right there for everyone to see?

 

[stlbobby]

Can you point out where WDW attendance increased last year?? MK down, Epcot down, DHS down, all from 2009 to 2010... AK increased slightly.. So, if 2010 numbers are down from 2009 numbers, how is that an increase???

I did point out from where the number came--the TEA/AECOM 2010 report.

Their numbers show an overall increase for the Disney properties. As I said in my previous post while MK and others dropped, in some cases less than a percent, Disney parks as a whole increased attendance. Read the report.

As far as the merchandise, it's been stated here (on the site not this thread) that Universal has shown one heck on an increase in merchandise sales... All you need to do is look at Disney's SEC filings, annual reports, and quarterly earnings reports to find their numbers... Orlando Sentinel probably has both resorts earnings filings somewhere on their site... and it isn't really farfetched to assume HP merchandise outsold Disney's.. Disney's merchandise is bland... it is the same every store you walk into... Personally, I no longer spend any money in Disney on merchandise... it is too generic... When wands in HP are sold out, and butterbeer sold 1,000,000 units by the first year of operations, and broomsticks are sold out, and people buy the Hogwarts school scarfs, i think it is safe to assume merchandise is selling better than Disney's...

People are going... that's for sure... but, cannot dispute the negative affect Potter has had on WDW... proof is proof, numbers don't lie.. And numbers show a negative impact...

This isn't proof. You have no numbers. You say the numbers are out there, but you don't even bother too look them up. Your entire argument is based on the fact that you don't like Disney merchandise and you don't buy it. That isn't proof.

You forget that the vast majority of visitors to WDW only go once every few years, maybe once in a lifetime, they don't see the merchandise the way you do. Disney is still selling a ton of merchandise and several of their lines are doing extremely well--princesses, Pooh, and Toy Story. The Pirate merch picked up with release of the fourth movie. US may have sold tons of wands and butterbeer, and as I have said many, many times HP was a great investment for them, but overall Disney's merchandising wasn't really affected by HP.

Here are some quotes from and E-Trade article published 10 August 2011 entitled "Disney Outshines Amid Turmoil."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Disney-Outshines-Amid-zacks-2465240938.html?x=0&.v=1

"Strong performance of the Media Networks and Parks and Resorts divisions facilitated The Walt Disney Company (NYSE: DIS - News) to deliver better-than-expected third-quarter 2011 results that outshined the Zacks expectations."

"Further, Disney Store, the retail merchandising arm of the company, is opening interactive concept stores in more than 40 locations in 2011, thus expanding its reach to new markets."

"Parks and Resorts revenue rose 12% to $3,170 million. Segment operating income increased 9% to $519 million, reflecting higher guest spending at domestic parks and higher passenger cruise days, partly offset by lower revenue from Tokyo Disney Resort and Disneyland Paris."

"Consumer Products revenue rose 13% to $685 million and segment operating income jumped 32% to $155 million. The growth reflected increased licensing revenue from Cars merchandise and higher revenue from Marvel properties."

"Walt Disney is one of the world's leading diversified entertainment companies. Moreover, the company commands a formidable portfolio of globally recognized brands, primarily its namesake brand Walt Disney, followed by ABC, ESPN and Marvel Entertainment. These brands offer a strong competitive edge to the company and bolster its well-established position in the market against major players like News Corporation (NasdaqGS: NWSA - News) and Time Warner Inc. (NYSE: TWX - News)."

These are facts. Not observations from what you see in the parks. Facts. The facts clearly point out that while HP was a boon to US. It didn't really affect Disney.

Based on the relative impact to the parks, the loss of creative control, and massive cost Disney made the sound business decision to pass on HP. It wasn't "stupid" or "dumb".

Based on the relative impact to the parks, the need to add new properties, and the cost to return ratio for US. US made a sound business decision.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I know that they had announced plans, and I believe very vague "art" for the use of that larger plot along Turkey Lake. At the time it included administrative office space on most of it (I believe the plot of land that ended up being used for Rockit staging). There was also mention of building housing for their own college/internship program, but I believe they filled that need in agreements with realtors on the surrounding property to the north or west of the resort. There is currently some strong rumors with a decently high possibility of realization of a water park on property, and that would likely use the plot next to the current resort (can't think of the name right now). I do not know what happened to the plans for the administrative/office building on the larger plot, but it was announced a little before the rug got pulled out from under the economy.

I forgot about the water park rumor... One of those two plots seem perfect!!!

 

[Captain Chaos]

Both could fit, maybe not easily, but if the land is worked right and transportation could be planned out, it could be possible. I believe the most trouble with this idea would be the parking and transportation.



Water park? Don't they have an agreement with Wet 'N Wild that fills that void? Or have I missed something...

I guess they could build their own Water park if they wanted. I'll admit I'm biased against when it comes to water parks as I'm not the biggest fan of them and I believe the plot of land has much more potential than that on a personal opinion, but I understand a lot of people do enjoy water parks (probably more enjoy than dislike), especially in the sunny and hot Florida area.

I'm sure they would figure something out regarding transportation... And the water park would be on property, not separate from the resort itself... Like WDW has a two water parks, and SeaWorld has Aquatica...

 

[Captain Chaos]

I did point out from where the number came--the TEA/AECOM 2010 report.

Their numbers show an overall increase for the Disney properties. As I said in my previous post while MK and others dropped, in some cases less than a percent, Disney parks as a whole increased attendance. Read the report.



This isn't proof. You have no numbers. You say the numbers are out there, but you don't even bother too look them up. Your entire argument is based on the fact that you don't like Disney merchandise and you don't buy it. That isn't proof.

You forget that the vast majority of visitors to WDW only go once every few years, maybe once in a lifetime, they don't see the merchandise the way you do. Disney is still selling a ton of merchandise and several of their lines are doing extremely well--princesses, Pooh, and Toy Story. The Pirate merch picked up with release of the fourth movie. US may have sold tons of wands and butterbeer, and as I have said many, many times HP was a great investment for them, but overall Disney's merchandising wasn't really affected by HP.

Here are some quotes from and E-Trade article published 10 August 2011 entitled "Disney Outshines Amid Turmoil."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Disney-Outshines-Amid-zacks-2465240938.html?x=0&.v=1

"Strong performance of the Media Networks and Parks and Resorts divisions facilitated The Walt Disney Company (NYSE: DIS - News) to deliver better-than-expected third-quarter 2011 results that outshined the Zacks expectations."

"Further, Disney Store, the retail merchandising arm of the company, is opening interactive concept stores in more than 40 locations in 2011, thus expanding its reach to new markets."

"Parks and Resorts revenue rose 12% to $3,170 million. Segment operating income increased 9% to $519 million, reflecting higher guest spending at domestic parks and higher passenger cruise days, partly offset by lower revenue from Tokyo Disney Resort and Disneyland Paris."

"Consumer Products revenue rose 13% to $685 million and segment operating income jumped 32% to $155 million. The growth reflected increased licensing revenue from Cars merchandise and higher revenue from Marvel properties."

"Walt Disney is one of the world's leading diversified entertainment companies. Moreover, the company commands a formidable portfolio of globally recognized brands, primarily its namesake brand Walt Disney, followed by ABC, ESPN and Marvel Entertainment. These brands offer a strong competitive edge to the company and bolster its well-established position in the market against major players like News Corporation (NasdaqGS: NWSA - News) and Time Warner Inc. (NYSE: TWX - News)."

These are facts. Not observations from what you see in the parks. Facts. The facts clearly point out that while HP was a boon to US. It didn't really affect Disney.

Based on the relative impact to the parks, the loss of creative control, and massive cost Disney made the sound business decision to pass on HP. It wasn't "stupid" or "dumb".

Based on the relative impact to the parks, the need to add new properties, and the cost to return ratio for US. US made a sound business decision.

if you serve 20,000,000 million customers in 2009 and only 18,000,000 in 2010 that is a decrease, not an increase... facts are, MK, DHS, and Epcot all saw attendance DECREASE in 2010 from 2009... Even if more people stayed on property (only cause Disney had to offer severe discounts to get guests tostay and people still left property to visit IOA more than ever before), less people went to the parks... meaning: more people left property to visit... you guessed it: IOA...

Pull out WDW's numbers from that article you postyed... Wait, you can't.. Why? Disney won't release individual park numbers... Disney PARKS rose 12%... how much of that is WDW?? Doesn't say.... Remember, Disneyland is up 3% and Disney Parks in the U.S. is up 1%.. meaning, WDW is DOWN... Suffice to say, attendance is down, merchandise sales will be down... unless you gouge your guests, which is what theme parks in general do best...

And yes, not fighting for the HP rights was stupid and dumb... again, quote me WDW's numbers compared from 2009, 2010, and 2011 and we'll talk... Until then, you cannot prove your point since we are comparing USO and IOA to WDW not DISNEY PARKS in total...

By the way, I am not the only one turned off to WDW, or should I say generic Disney Parks merchandise... Read comment boards all over.. LOADS of Disney fans aren't happy with merchandise...

 

[stlbobby]

if you serve 20,000,000 million customers in 2009 and only 18,000,000 in 2010 that is a decrease, not an increase... facts are, MK, DHS, and Epcot all saw attendance DECREASE in 2010 from 2009... Even if more people stayed on property (only cause Disney had to offer severe discounts to get guests tostay and people still left property to visit IOA more than ever before), less people went to the parks... meaning: more people left property to visit... you guessed it: IOA...

Pull out WDW's numbers from that article you postyed... Wait, you can't.. Why? Disney won't release individual park numbers... Disney PARKS rose 12%... how much of that is WDW?? Doesn't say.... Remember, Disneyland is up 3% and Disney Parks in the U.S. is up 1%.. meaning, WDW is DOWN... Suffice to say, attendance is down, merchandise sales will be down... unless you gouge your guests, which is what theme parks in general do best...

And yes, not fighting for the HP rights was stupid and dumb... again, quote me WDW's numbers compared from 2009, 2010, and 2011 and we'll talk... Until then, you cannot prove your point since we are comparing USO and IOA to WDW not DISNEY PARKS in total...

Read the report. I give you the numbers and you still continue to deny and make things up from your "observations."

The E-Trade article I quoted clearly shows Disney as a whole, and specifically the parks and merchandising divisions, are doing extremely well, above expectations and projections.

How can you even continue to argue the point that Disney is suffering?

 

[captainkidd]

Calling people "ignorant" is an insult. How can you keep saying you didn't insult people when the post is right there for everyone to see?

If it makes you feel better, I could say that you are ignorant, since you seem to be the only one who doesn't think this was a bad decision on Disney's part.

 

[captainkidd]

if you serve 20,000,000 million customers in 2009 and only 18,000,000 in 2010 that is a decrease, not an increase... facts are, MK, DHS, and Epcot all saw attendance DECREASE in 2010 from 2009... Even if more people stayed on property (only cause Disney had to offer severe discounts to get guests tostay and people still left property to visit IOA more than ever before), less people went to the parks... meaning: more people left property to visit... you guessed it: IOA...

Pull out WDW's numbers from that article you postyed... Wait, you can't.. Why? Disney won't release individual park numbers... Disney PARKS rose 12%... how much of that is WDW?? Doesn't say.... Remember, Disneyland is up 3% and Disney Parks in the U.S. is up 1%.. meaning, WDW is DOWN... Suffice to say, attendance is down, merchandise sales will be down... unless you gouge your guests, which is what theme parks in general do best...

And yes, not fighting for the HP rights was stupid and dumb... again, quote me WDW's numbers compared from 2009, 2010, and 2011 and we'll talk... Until then, you cannot prove your point since we are comparing USO and IOA to WDW not DISNEY PARKS in total...

By the way, I am not the only one turned off to WDW, or should I say generic Disney Parks merchandise... Read comment boards all over.. LOADS of Disney fans aren't happy with merchandise...

Give it up. He's not gonna let it go and refuses to see the simple facts. Some people really do snort pixie dust.

 

[SleepingMonk]

You really are just wasting your time debating anything with someone who says...

Toy Story is...just as innovative, new, and popular as HP...

...and is serious about it.

Even the imagineers that built TSMM would laugh at that ridiculous statement.

 

[stlbobby]

Give it up. He's not gonna let it go and refuses to see the simple facts. Some people really do snort pixie dust.

You two are clearly on the dust. I have cited facts from the preeminent theme park industry association and an impartial financial appraisal. You have provided insults, personal observations, and incorrect facts.

"Disney Outshines Amid Turmoil" that is the name of the article. It clearly states Disney is doing outstanding. Yet you continue to claim a simple business decision is stupid, dumb, and screwed up.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and completely refuse to even deal with the reality of what is written, even when you write it.

 

[xdan0920]

Read the report. I give you the numbers and you still continue to deny and make things up from your "observations."

The E-Trade article I quoted clearly shows Disney as a whole, and specifically the parks and merchandising divisions, are doing extremely well, above expectations and projections.

How can you even continue to argue the point that Disney is suffering?

Dude, you are wrong. WDW attendance is down from 2009 to 2010. This is a fact. Clouding the numbers by adding in DisneyLand and foreign parks is just TWDC covering up the disappointment in Orlando.

 

[The Mom]

Are you people still at? Sheesh, give a rest.

 

[stlbobby]

Dude, you are wrong. WDW attendance is down from 2009 to 2010. This is a fact. Clouding the numbers by adding in DisneyLand and foreign parks is just TWDC covering up the disappointment in Orlando.

Read the report. The resort as a whole is up. When the other parks are included Disney fairs even better.

Also the plunge referred to in three of the parks ranged from less than 1% to 1.5%. That is barely a blip.

 

[xdan0920]

Read the report. The resort as a whole is up. When the other parks are included Disney fairs even better.

Also the plunge referred to in three of the parks ranged from less than 1% to 1.5%. That is barely a blip.

I have. It's not.

Maybe you should read it?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Read the report. I give you the numbers and you still continue to deny and make things up from your "observations."

The E-Trade article I quoted clearly shows Disney as a whole, and specifically the parks and merchandising divisions, are doing extremely well, above expectations and projections.

How can you even continue to argue the point that Disney is suffering?

Comprehend people's posts my friend... WALT DISNEY WORLD.. not Disney as a whole... Why do you fail to understand we are comparing WDW and IOA/USO?? oh cause your pixie-dust brigade talking points will fail...

And again, NO ONE IS SAYING WDW IS DYING!!!!!

 

[Captain Chaos]

Give it up. He's not gonna let it go and refuses to see the simple facts. Some people really do snort pixie dust.

People want to lay out the term doomers and gloomers... Well, I am coining the phrase PIXIE DUST BRIGADE.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Read the report. The resort as a whole is up. When the other parks are included Disney fairs even better.

Also the plunge referred to in three of the parks ranged from less than 1% to 1.5%. That is barely a blip.

Answer this.. If the U.S. parks were up 1% in Quarter 3, and Disneyland was up 3% in Quarter 3, then why is Disney Parks U.S.A. up only 1%?? Because WDW is DOWN....

again, if you had 20,000,000 customers in 2009 and 18,000,000 in 2010, that is a DECREASE in customers, not an Increase...

 

[Captain Chaos]

OK, 2010 numbers for WDW for the last time...

Magic Kingdom Park, Walt Disney World, 16.972 Million -1.5%
EPCOT, Walt Disney World, 10.825 Million -1.5%
Disney's Animal Kingdom, Walt Disney World, 9.686 Million +1.0%
Disney's Hollywood Studios, Walt Disney World, 9.603 Million -1.0%


So, three of the four parks were DOWN... Only AK was up and only up 1%, not enough to make up the percent losses of 1.5, 1.5, and 1.0 from three other parks... So again, if attendance from 2009 to 2010 went DOWN, how exactly is that an increase???

This is getting silly... You guys are all right... Can't show facts to people who are determined to ignore them and live in their pixie dusted fantasy world...

When the 2011 numbers come out next year and IOA surpasses DHS and maybe even DAK, I can only imagine the spin the Pixie Dust Brigade will spew...

 

[cheezbat]

Both could fit, maybe not easily, but if the land is worked right and transportation could be planned out, it could be possible. I believe the most trouble with this idea would be the parking and transportation.



Water park? Don't they have an agreement with Wet 'N Wild that fills that void? Or have I missed something...

I guess they could build their own Water park if they wanted. I'll admit I'm biased against when it comes to water parks as I'm not the biggest fan of them and I believe the plot of land has much more potential than that on a personal opinion, but I understand a lot of people do enjoy water parks (probably more enjoy than dislike), especially in the sunny and hot Florida area.

Actually, Wet N Wild is living on borrowed time. I've heard it from many sources. One just yesterday was telling me how many of them that work at the park are just waiting to hear the word about relocating to a new park on that plot of land next to IOA. It's most likely gonna happen in the next five years or so...

And as to you guys with your theme park numbers....yes, WDW was down last year. The only park with an increase was DAK...which REALLY makes me sad because that just tells TDO that they're doing a good job there and that the park is worth visiting...when in reality, that park is one that needs the most work.