Pleasure Island Changes

[markjohns1]

As others have stated, it isn't a question of build the BLT or redo Fantasyland with new attractions or add timeshare to DAK Lodge or add some Tokyo-like attractions to DAK.

BUT ... it is a concern in that the only investment Burbank seems to want to make in O-Town is DVC.

And Disney PR will pass of these 'new' resorts in all their marketing and promo campaigns, much like they would attractions. 'See how can we be stale ... look at all the new stuff ...'

So no, as I've stated many times it isn't an either DVC or park investment question.

But it's definitely a problem when the only thing Disney really seems intent on building at WDW is timeshare.

I definitely agree with this assessment, but I think too often DVC is used as a talking point for the pitfalls at WDW. If anything, DVC should be helping the conditions at WDW through increased, repeat business. DVC is clearly working, so why shouldn't they want to continue to expand it? My question is, where are the profits generated at WDW going? It appears that it is not being reinvested back into WDW.

And I don't know how much you can fault Disney PR for this. It seems like a lemonade-from-lemons situation for them. I don't think the execs are giving them a whole lot to work with.

When I say empty I mean there is no one in them. As other people posted, they are begging 3rd party companies to come and fill the land. It just aggravates me that they have no plan for those building so they just let them sit there and rot while they could be making money off of the diehard fans of those clubs until they actually have a plan. But no they are sitting there in their VIP lounges with their tails between their legs because they can't deal with the fact that they made a mistake. I hope the clubs do open back up and when they do, opening night will be a roast of Kevin Lansberry and the others who wanted "family friendly atmosphere."

Does anyone have actual information regarding whether or not any of the clubs were making a profit? Sure, having the clubs open would generate revenue, but were they actually even breaking even? It's clearly cause for concern that many/all of the 3rd party tenants have pulled out, but is the bottom line hurt by having the clubs open or closed at this point? No one has definitively proven that either way as far as I've seen. If someone has, link please.

Yes, but there may be logistical issues that prevent that from happening. If it would take 6 months to retrain the staff and performers and get the clubs ready to open, who know who would have signed up in that time.

I don't think there was any proof ever presented either way that the clubs were making money.

While I can appreciate your passion, it seems to be obscuring some logical issues that may arise.

Exactly. I know the argument has often been that the clubs were "always" crowded, but crowd size does not even indicate profitability. If any of the theme parks are crowded, but very few drinks/merchandise is being sold, that is not likely to be a profitable day. I don't think anyone here can cite how well drink sales were at the clubs beyond random guessing.

I think regardless of your position on the issue, any time you go from running owning/operating a portion of a resort to outsourcing to a 3rd party, that is the easy way to help the bottom line (or lazy way, depending on how you want to spin it). Unfortunately, the timing of current economic conditions caused the whole ship to go down. I wonder if the downturn will end up being the savior for AC, because not much else is going on in PI at this point.

 

[jt04]

Jt...you don't happen to hail from the land of canyons, ski slopes and magic undwearwear do you?

What is "undwearwear"?:shrug:

I am not in Aspen but good guess!

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Or we can stay on topic and continue to talk about Pleasure Island changes. Speaking of Super Bowl, ESPN Zone in DTD would go over great on Super Bowl Sunday :lookaroun hehehehehehe

I worked at the ESPN Zone in Times Square, and playoffs were crazy, people would line up for hours. I don't miss those days lol.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

What is "undwearwear"?:shrug:

I am not in Aspen but good guess!

You got me!

It's not a place but a state of mind, the kind of state that supports multiple wives...

 

[jt04]

You got me!

It's not a place but a state of mind, the kind of state that supports multiple wives...

You used the word first?

 

[Club Cooloholic]

You used the word first?

Ah that, a typo. underwear. I was trying to say magical underwear.

 

[jt04]

Ah that, a typo. underwear. I was trying to say magical underwear.

Ohhh. Yep, I can confirm again that I am not in Aspen. I hear Vail is pretty this time of year though.

 

[tirian]

WDW1974, I got a question. Are you an insider, employee, dedicated fan, relative to an insider? Your posts are very well thought out. When you present your argument, it is hard to argue against you cause of the information you present to back yourself up. You seem to know what you are talking about, with a high degree of confidence.

He knows a heck of a lot more than almost anybody else here. I don't always agree with his method of delivery, but I know that he knows what he's talking about.

Besides, it's always better to discuss things with an objective adult than a 15-year-old who's drowning in pixie dust. :lol:

 

[tirian]

You can see where there's vision shown ... walk into EPCOT (even in its Walmarted state) and look around and you see the vision of its creators ... heck, take the monorail to the MK and look at the resort development (BLT aside) and you see vision ... walk into DAK ... it's there.

Actually, that's the one area in which (attraction count and maintenance notwithstanding) the MK trumps every other kingdom worldwide. It truly feels like you've gone somewhere else. DL is lovely and features some of the best attractions in any Disney park (Indiana Jones); but it's still tiny, crowded, and pretty much just a blip off the interstate. TDR is amazing, but TDL has an unbelievably outdated Fantasyland and Tomorrowland. DLP is gorgeous, but they can't maintain it for anything. I've never been to HKDL.

So despite all the leadership problems at WDW, I still appreciate and enjoy the vision that created a world-class theme park across a lagoon from reality.

I'm also thrilled to see how Epcot is returning to its roots. I just hope execs don't screw it up before its current leadership has a chance to obliterate the whirligigs, circus tents, and other crap from Innoventions.

 

[surfsupdon]

They sold alcohol.

The profits should have been huge.

 

[Lee]

Does anyone have actual information regarding whether or not any of the clubs were making a profit? Sure, having the clubs open would generate revenue, but were they actually even breaking even?

Not working for the company, I don't have access to the actual raw data. However, I have been told, unequivocally, by sources I trust, that Adv. Club and Comedy Warehouse were profitable, while the other clubs hovered around the break-even line.
Not talking about mountains of cash, but they were not losing money, at least not at AC or CW.
The same sources also tell me, that there is a "told you so" type of movement around TDO that would like very much to reopen those two clubs indefinitely, so that PI will indeed have some life, and money would be coming in. Better some life and money than closed buildings, doing nothing but taking up space and confusing guests.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Kinda relevent and interesting...
http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky042607c.htm

 

[WDW1974]

Interesting. Sometime around the last month of PI, I heard a similar rumor about a "mini PI" going in near AK, possibly with the Adventurers Club relocationg there. I'd since kind of dismissed this as a misunderstanding of Flamingo Crossing (unlikely, given the source was in a position to know better) or something connected to the proposed "Night Kingdom," but this sounds much more like what was described. Now I'm curious to see how far each of the four blue sky plans went.

No. There is definitely a blue-sky concept that would have a dedicated shopping and dining area (mini DD's as I was told) near the exits of all four gates.

It seems absurd for a lot of reasons, including space ... DAK has the land and with adding a parking structure (again, something that has been talked about) the Studios would too ... but at MK they'd have to put it at TTC and I just don't see that as viable ... and I don't have a clue where they'd place EPCOT's ... near the BW?

I can understand the logic behind this, but again, what I've heard is that the 3rd party tenants who've branded themselves as being "on PI" didn't want to lose that name. It's not just that WDW hasn't done anything (which wouldn't surprise me)--they actively changed out the banners on the light poles, first for Halloween, then for Christmas. Throw in the return of "PI Live" radio (noticably not "Downtown Disney Live") and it just seems they are hesitant to lose the branding of the area. If anything, it causes guest confusion and disappointment--I'm shocked the number of people who still show up in club clothes expecting to dance.

I would think any of those 3rd parties would want the PI name dropped ASAP ... most people in Orlando -- and many visitors -- realize the place is closed. Why would a business ever want to be associated with a defunct location?

I did see those banners at Halloween ... and PI Live ...but I think that's more to make the area not look so dead ... to actually help those third parties before some of them hit Disney up for rebates due to them killing PI in the first place. ... That came out in like 20 seconds so I hope it makes sense!

 

[WDW1974]

WDW1974, I got a question. Are you an insider, employee, dedicated fan, relative to an insider? Your posts are very well thought out. When you present your argument, it is hard to argue against you cause of the information you present to back yourself up. You seem to know what you are talking about, with a high degree of confidence.

I am NOT nor have I ever been an employee of TWDC.

You could call me both an insider and a dedicated fan.

And thanks for the kind words. I try to inform, educate and entertain all while engaging in (mostly) good-natured debate and discussion.

 

[WDW1974]

The sad thing is that they don't have to do anything with them. I have lost count of the number of buildings in WDW that remain in a perpetual state of closure and/or occasional usage.

Amen.

Forget that dead guy (did he even exist?) Walt Whatshisname ... he supposedly hated having things closed because it made his park look rundown ... amazing how those old standards for show have totally gone out the window.

Anyone want to create a list of dead zones at WDW?

 

[MousDad]

I try to inform, educate and entertain all while engaging in (mostly) good-natured debate and discussion.

I though it was inform, entertain and inspire? Or was it entertain, inspire and inform? Or maybe . . .

 

[WDW1974]

Was there ever a reason given for why they took down the gates? I think the problem wasn't so much the club goers as it was the gangs of local teenagers that were suddenly hanging around and causing trouble.

Nope.

Taking the gates down actually encouraged the teen problem.

If you're a 16-year-old looking for trouble where would you more likely be: The World of Disney, La Nouba or PI?

Part of me thinks Disney almost invited these problems to just have yet another excuse to shutter the Island.

 

[CaptainMichael]

Not working for the company, I don't have access to the actual raw data. However, I have been told, unequivocally, by sources I trust, that Adv. Club and Comedy Warehouse were profitable, while the other clubs hovered around the break-even line.
Not talking about mountains of cash, but they were not losing money, at least not at AC or CW.
The same sources also tell me, that there is a "told you so" type of movement around TDO that would like very much to reopen those two clubs indefinitely, so that PI will indeed have some life, and money would be coming in. Better some life and money than closed buildings, doing nothing but taking up space and confusing guests.

Well, that is semi-encouraging. It's also encouraging, and I like to keep bringing up this point that the Adventurers Club is still "open for business" just in a different way, the cast is still mostly employed by Disney, and the club will be intact at least until October. I know one CM in particular who emailed me last week is still looking for a job, and I'm sure he'd be happy to go back to the club.

Directed to the "Family Friendly" Crowd
The Adventurers Club and Comedy Warehouse were family friendly with the definition of families being older. All families grow up. Moms and dads with teenagers, and moms and dads with 20+ers all had great times there. Older families should have a place in Disney to go at night also. Not everyone wants to have character dinners...well, not the kind of characters I was thinking of.:wave:

 

[WDW1974]

He knows a heck of a lot more than almost anybody else here. I don't always agree with his method of delivery, but I know that he knows what he's talking about.

Besides, it's always better to discuss things with an objective adult than a 15-year-old who's drowning in pixie dust. :lol:

Off to Never Land ... you can fly, you can fly, you can fly!:king:

 

[jt04]

Well, that is semi-encouraging. It's also encouraging, and I like to keep bringing up this point that the Adventurers Club is still "open for business" just in a different way, the cast is still mostly employed by Disney, and the club will be intact at least until October. I know one CM in particular who emailed me last week is still looking for a job, and I'm sure he'd be happy to go back to the club.

Directed to the "Family Friendly" Crowd
The Adventurers Club and Comedy Warehouse were family friendly with the definition of families being older. All families grow up. Moms and dads with teenagers, and moms and dads with 20+ers all had great times there. Older families should have a place in Disney to go at night also. Not everyone wants to have character dinners...well, not the kind of characters I was thinking of.:wave:

Hey, I specifically remember writing on this forum, when everyone was speculating exactly which clubs would close, that I thought the Comedy Warehouse and Adventuers Club would stay open for just the reasons you mention. Guess I was wrong about that. :ROFLOL::wave: