Plan C for Pleasure Island

[xdan0920]

Actually i have...but hey i forgot you guys bemoan the fact that DTD is a giant mall yet you want it to be a giant bar scene like you can get in any city in the country.

Sorry i dont drink the kool-aid and i am smart enough to remember even as a kid walking past PI and sensing it is nothing more than Rush St. in Downtown Chicago or my older brother going there in the 90s and saying the same exact thing...

silly me using logic

So you walked past PI as a kid? That is your experience with it?

 

[devoy1701]

Its easy in theory but practice is different. Yes it is nice to have a small boutique store...but it cost money to run...so if you are making a small niche happy that is great but the cast members working there need money so infact you are depriving funds from the parks to pay cast to work there. It is just not sound business advice.

You're missing the point.

Sastify those niche demographics and you get people to come to the area, stay in the area, and spend their money in the area. Offer something that those niche demographics enjoy and when you get a group of people that have different tastes, they're going to take the time to enjoy the multiple and different offerings that your entertainment area has to offer. Probably more time then if you were to saturate the area with less unique offerings of everyday dining/retail establishments were everyone can "get there fill" (albeit less of it) by just stopping at one place instead of multiple.

Overall the guest satisfaction will be up and revenues of the entire area will be just as strong and probably stronger than what their plan is now.

WDW sees Millions more guests per year now than they did back in '89 when PI opened. I can't imagine what kind of revenues they would be seeing had they stuck with the original concept for the place instead steering away from it and later gutting it. And I guarentee it was bringing in more money 4 years ago than it does today.

 

[Lee]

Its easy in theory but practice is different. Yes it is nice to have a small boutique store...but it cost money to run...so if you are making a small niche happy that is great but the cast members working there need money so infact you are depriving funds from the parks to pay cast to work there. It is just not sound business advice.

I disagree.
For nearly the first thirty years of its existence, that is exactly the way Disney ran it's parks. The whole was greater than the sum of it's parts. It allowed for a real antique shop in Liberty Square and a safari shop in Adventureland. Was Disney making less money back then? Nope.
It was about 12-15 years back that a team of MBAs came on board and decided that every single location on property had to function as it's own business. If the location then wasn't able to meet the revenue goals set for it, it was either closed (Elephant Tales) or changed (Christmas Shop).

The result has been overall negative in every way.
Yes, a higher percentage of the locations are hitting their goals, but only by selling the same merchandise as other shops and cannibalizing their business. Financially, for the company as a whole, it is a wash.
For the guests, they have lost many unique locations (Magic Shop, for instance) in favor of yet another location to sell a Grumpy sweatshirt or a silly Goofy hat.

A smart business person would recognize that the parks should be looked at as one giant enterprise, not a collection of small stores, bars and restaurants. The profit will remain the same, and still allow for unique and fun guest experiences. Is Disney making any more money now that PI is closed? Nope. Was the Magic Shop or Elephant Tales a drain on company finances? Nope
I guess it just makes for a cleaner spreadsheet somewhere...:brick:

I've said it before, how long until some pencil-pusher looks at something like the Electrical Water Pagent and decides that since it doesn't directly generate revenue, it should be discontinued? That is the direction we are headed with the current model.

Actually i have...but hey i forgot you guys bemoan the fact that DTD is a giant mall yet you want it to be a giant bar scene like you can get in any city in the country.

Nope.
Many of us simply want the Club back. Which, since it appears you never experienced it, was in no way something you could get in any city.

 

[devoy1701]

I disagree.
For nearly the first thirty years of its existence, that is exactly the way Disney ran it's parks. The whole was greater than the sum of it's parts. It allowed for a real antique shop in Liberty Square and a safari shop in Adventureland. Was Disney making less money back then? Nope.
It was about 12-15 years back that a team of MBAs came on board and decided that every single location on property had to function as it's own business. If the location then wasn't able to meet the revenue goals set for it, it was either closed (Elephant Tales) or changed (Christmas Shop).

The result has been overall negative in every way.
Yes, a higher percentage of the locations are hitting their goals, but only by selling the same merchandise as other shops and cannibalizing their business. Financially, for the company as a whole, it is a wash.
For the guests, they have lost many unique locations (Magic Shop, for instance) in favor of yet another location to sell a Grumpy sweatshirt or a silly Goofy hat.

A smart business person would recognize that the parks should be looked at as one giant enterprise, not a collection of small stores, bars and restaurants. The profit will remain the same, and still allow for unique and fun guest experiences. Is Disney making any more money now that PI is closed? Nope. Was the Magic Shop or Elephant Tales a drain on company finances? Nope
I guess it just makes for a cleaner spreadsheet somewhere...:brick:

I've said it before, how long until some pencil-pusher looks at something like the Electrical Water Pagent and decides that since it doesn't directly generate revenue, it should be discontinued? That is the direction we are headed with the current model.


Nope.
Many of us simply want the Club back. Which, since it appears you never experienced it, was in no way something you could get in any city.

Forgot that key tidbit in my responses. It isn't theory...it's how the Parks were operated since they were created.

 

[AvengersWDW]

So you walked past PI as a kid? That is your experience with it?

Nope, i actually experienced it as an adult...towards the tail end but many reliable sources were there during its heyday and they support my claim.

I guess you just love the college bar scene...

 

[Lee]

Have they been detrimental to the guest experience though?

Yep.

I know i am one man and my evidence is limited but by the way people are acting it should of been a constant complaint.

I can tell you that the stream of complaints into TDO and Burbank since the closing of PI in general, and the AC in particular, has been nothing short of extraordinary. Far greater than for any other closure in company history.

I have been told by certain people that it has become a sore spot within the organization, and that there has been a significant amount of push-back from within to try to undo the mistakes made with the closing of PI. Thus far, those efforts have been stymied by certain individuals who refuse to acknowledge that any mistakes were made and are prevented by ego from ever admitting that they were wrong and trying to make it right.

I guess you just love the college bar scene...

I, for one, want nothing to do with any "college bar scene."

 

[xdan0920]

Nope, i actually experienced it as an adult...towards the tail end but many reliable sources were there during its heyday and they support my claim.

I guess you just love the college bar scene...

Haha...

Reliable sources? You are out polling people on wether PI felt like a college bar scene?

 

[njDizFan]

thanks a lot Lee and Devoy every time I tried to respond you guys come and say the same thing except just a tad more succinct...

So all I can say is I agree...it's sad that a stores worth is measured by P&L per Sqft, not an equation that makes a great customer experience.

 

[AvengersWDW]

I disagree.
For nearly the first thirty years of its existence, that is exactly the way Disney ran it's parks. The whole was greater than the sum of it's parts. It allowed for a real antique shop in Liberty Square and a safari shop in Adventureland. Was Disney making less money back then? Nope.
It was about 12-15 years back that a team of MBAs came on board and decided that every single location on property had to function as it's own business. If the location then wasn't able to meet the revenue goals set for it, it was either closed (Elephant Tales) or changed (Christmas Shop).

The result has been overall negative in every way.
Yes, a higher percentage of the locations are hitting their goals, but only by selling the same merchandise as other shops and cannibalizing their business. Financially, for the company as a whole, it is a wash.
For the guests, they have lost many unique locations (Magic Shop, for instance) in favor of yet another location to sell a Grumpy sweatshirt or a silly Goofy hat.

A smart business person would recognize that the parks should be looked at as one giant enterprise, not a collection of small stores, bars and restaurants. The profit will remain the same, and still allow for unique and fun guest experiences. Is Disney making any more money now that PI is closed? Nope. Was the Magic Shop or Elephant Tales a drain on company finances? Nope
I guess it just makes for a cleaner spreadsheet somewhere...:brick:

I've said it before, how long until some pencil-pusher looks at something like the Electrical Water Pagent and decides that since it doesn't directly generate revenue, it should be discontinued? That is the direction we are headed with the current model.


Nope.
Many of us simply want the Club back. Which, since it appears you never experienced it, was in no way something you could get in any city.

I have been in the AC club and yes i have experienced that "type" of clubs in other cities, most of which have closed down because of the lack of broad appeal

 

[AvengersWDW]

Yep.


I can tell you that the stream of complaints into TDO and Burbank since the closing of PI in general, and the AC in particular, has been nothing short of extraordinary. Far greater than for any other closure in company history.

I have been told by certain people that it has become a sore spot within the organization, and that there has been a significant amount of push-back from within to try to undo the mistakes made with the closing of PI. Thus far, those efforts have been stymied by certain individuals who refuse to acknowledge that any mistakes were made and are prevented by ego from ever admitting that they were wrong and trying to make it right.



I, for one, want nothing to do with any "college bar scene."

Just a point, if that is truely the case that the feedback has been bad then how come two of the three main areas were feedback is generated has had very little complaints? Both the concierge and Guest Relations department have had very little negative feedback. If what you are saying is correct then that should of been something I or many of my concierge and GR brethern would of heard on a daily basis.

This falls back into the idea that this internet board is how everyone in the world feels.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Haha...

Reliable sources? You are out polling people on whether PI felt like a college bar scene?

No i am talking to my close friends and family...plus being there towards the end and seeing the clubs, not AC, as nothing more than college bars.

But i forgot, some random person on a disney board knows more than my family and friends who are in fact smarter than said poster....

 

[AvengersWDW]

thanks a lot Lee and Devoy every time I tried to respond you guys come and say the same thing except just a tad more succinct...

So all I can say is I agree...it's sad that a stores worth is measured by P&L per Sqft, not an equation that makes a great customer experience.

Its sad when people think that going against common sense is smart business practice.

Niche Markets are niches for a reason. Sorry but a store that caters to less than 3% of the people who visit WDW should not strain other stores. Imagine Epcot not being able to be built since all the profit of MK was going to keep niche stores afloat...

 

[devoy1701]

I now have 2 thoughts in my head:

1) what banned board member could this Mar2012 join-date member be the resurrection of?
2) Apparently conceirge CMs are privy to real knowledge of the intraworkingz of the resort and we should give their opinions more respect?

my head hurts.

 

[devoy1701]

Its sad when people think that going against common sense is smart business practice.

Niche Markets are niches for a reason. Sorry but a store that caters to less than 3% of the people who visit WDW should not strain other stores. Imagine Epcot not being able to be built since all the profit of MK was going to keep niche stores afloat...

ahem....profit from MK is NOT what got Epcot built. Not sure why you would think that would be the case.

 

[wm49rs]

Just a point, if that is truely the case that the feedback has been bad then how come two of the three main areas were feedback is generated has had very little complaints? Both the concierge and Guest Relations department have had very little negative feedback. If what you are saying is correct then that should of been something I or many of my concierge and GR brethern would of heard on a daily basis.

This falls back into the idea that this internet board is how everyone in the world feels.

The sources of Lee's information goes well beyond those in the GR or Concierge Departments. Sorry, but that is very much the case. I know it would be easy to dismiss him as another individual on an internet board (and thus making him no different than you in that regard), but the information he has provided over the years goes far beyond supposed comments left behind at a Guest Relations counter.

 

[Lee]

Just a point, if that is truely the case that the feedback has been bad then how come two of the three main areas were feedback is generated has had very little complaints? Both the concierge and Guest Relations department have had very little negative feedback. If what you are saying is correct then that should of been something I or many of my concierge and GR brethern would of heard on a daily basis.

This falls back into the idea that this internet board is how everyone in the world feels.

My information comes directly from sources in both TDO and Burbank.
The majority of the complaints has come in the form of emails, calls and letters to everyone from the staff at DTD to Bob Iger and Tom Staggs.
Most of the complaints comes from frequent and loyal visitors to the property who know better than to bother complaining at their hotel.

I have been in the AC club and yes i have experienced that "type" of clubs in other cities, most of which have closed down because of the lack of broad appeal

Name a couple clubs like the AC, and of equal quality, anywhere. Open or closed.

 

[WDW1974]

Actually i have...but hey i forgot you guys bemoan the fact that DTD is a giant mall yet you want it to be a giant bar scene like you can get in any city in the country.

Sorry i dont drink the kool-aid and i am smart enough to remember even as a kid walking past PI and sensing it is nothing more than Rush St. in Downtown Chicago or my older brother going there in the 90s and saying the same exact thing...

silly me using logic

I'm not even sure why I'm getting involved here ... I could be off down in 'my' thread defending Michael Eisner (tangent: what does it say about the current Disney that folks would rather discuss a former CEO and an entertainment area that's been closed since 2008 than anything the company is actually doing now?) ... and I do wonder about any fan who was a supposed CM at WDW for two years who doesn't have a clue what Horizons was.

That's just odd at best.

But I have to tell you that PI in its heyday was absolutely NOT Rush Street or any other place. It was a unique collection of clubs, dining and shopping that was tied together with a pretty cool backstory. The problem with PI was twofold: clubs need to be freshened periodically and Disney decided around
Y2K that it wasn't willing to invest ... and then they added another mall-like venue on the other side.

I don't think very many folks want a typical bar complex at DD.

But if you think there's a market for any more Disney mall space, which is what all of DD has become, take a look around ... they aren't exactly getting new tenants unless they're just more Disney merchandise locales (which all sell the same products anyway).

~Not TODAY!~

 

[AvengersWDW]

I now have 2 thoughts in my head:

1) what banned board member could this Mar2012 join-date member be the resurrection of?
2) Apparently conceirge CMs are privy to real knowledge of the intraworkingz of the resort and we should give their opinions more respect?

my head hurts.

My 2 thoughts:

1. Anyone who does not share a warped view on PI is somehow a banned member.
2. A person on a internet board does not know what a concierge does.

My head hurts thinking about the fact that people honestly think that 100 people online are an accurate reflection of the real world. If that was the case going to MiceChat would tell me that NO ONE IN THE WORLD likes WDW

 

[AvengersWDW]

ahem....profit from MK is NOT what got Epcot built. Not sure why you would think that would be the case.

It sure did help...if MK and Disneyland were failing the profit made from the studio would not be enough to get Epcot built.

 

[njDizFan]

Its sad when people think that going against common sense is smart business practice.

Niche Markets are niches for a reason. Sorry but a store that caters to less than 3% of the people who visit WDW should not strain other stores. Imagine Epcot not being able to be built since all the profit of MK was going to keep niche stores afloat...

So I imagine you are a fan of being able to purchase your Phineas and Furb shirt in Adventureland...Surely all the merchandice locations in the MK(specifically) do not to be an annex of the Emporium.

Olde World Antiques, the silversmith, the perfumerie existed long after Epcot and even MGM appeared. Imagine getting a shopping only pass during the holiday season simply because they were unique and did not need to generate huge profits to keep in existence.