Plan C for Pleasure Island

[AvengersWDW]

Agreed 100%. All the more reason Disney needs to suck it up and do something to create an anchor in the area (whether it's re-opening AC as a restaurant or re-opening a couple of the clubs). Give third party businesses a reason to be there and then slowly close the Disney owned businesses as demand for the property increases.

Just a question how are opening up half empty clubs going to do anything to draw people in? People here act like the AC and the other clubs were always packed and amazing...i remember going to PI in 2006 after i turned 21...everything was dead...2007....everything was dead...2008....everything was dead...the only time it was ever packed was on the last day event. I dont mean to break your doom and gloom bubble but just because 100 people online think the clubs were good that does not mean they were...the general public ignored them.

Back on topic, whatever they do they should do it soon. Splitsville coming is great news hopefully something cool is announced

 

[GLaDOS]

Just a question how are opening up half empty clubs going to do anything to draw people in? People here act like the AC and the other clubs were always packed and amazing...i remember going to PI in 2006 after i turned 21...everything was dead...2007....everything was dead...2008....everything was dead...the only time it was ever packed was on the last day event. I dont mean to break your doom and gloom bubble but just because 100 people online think the clubs were good that does not mean they were...the general public ignored them.

Funny. I never experienced dead clubs. There was a drop in attendance after WDW decided to stop promoting them on property, but they were never dead, especially the AC.

 

[s8film40]

Just a question how are opening up half empty clubs going to do anything to draw people in? People here act like the AC and the other clubs were always packed and amazing...i remember going to PI in 2006 after i turned 21...everything was dead...2007....everything was dead...2008....everything was dead...the only time it was ever packed was on the last day event. I dont mean to break your doom and gloom bubble but just because 100 people online think the clubs were good that does not mean they were...the general public ignored them.

Back on topic, whatever they do they should do it soon. Splitsville coming is great news hopefully something cool is announced

Yes by 2006 the clubs were dead for the most part. This isn't because the clubs were bad but because Disney mismanaged them so badly. If you visited PI in 2000 or prior you would have seen a VERY different place, very active and completely packed. The only one to blame for that is Disney, they are the ones that drove their own business into the ground. Ultimately this is why they want third parties, they know they can't keep up and they just want to rent the space.

 

[s8film40]

Funny. I never experienced dead clubs. There was a drop in attendance after WDW decided to stop promoting them on property, but they were never dead, especially the AC.

Dead is probably the wrong word, they were slow but nowhere near what they had been in the past.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Funny. I never experienced dead clubs. There was a drop in attendance after WDW decided to stop promoting them on property, but they were never dead, especially the AC.

I was in the AC on friday and saturday nights during peak periods and maybe 20 people were in there...if that is not dead i dont know what is. It is okay to like something like AC but to say that it was always packed and rolling in millions and millions for Disney is just not true. I would rather a new club be opened up than a half empty one.

 

[GLaDOS]

I was in the AC on friday and saturday nights during peak periods and maybe 20 people were in there...if that is not dead i dont know what is. It is okay to like something like AC but to say that it was always packed and rolling in millions and millions for Disney is just not true. I would rather a new club be opened up than a half empty one.

Now I know you're lying. I happen to know that during peak times the AC did fairly well. No, it wasn't raking in huge amounts of money, but the club was in the black, and contrary to popular belief not everything in WDW needs to be a huge money maker.

Sometimes the Disney Difference needs to win out over the Spreadsheet Difference.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Yes by 2006 the clubs were dead for the most part. This isn't because the clubs were bad but because Disney mismanaged them so badly. If you visited PI in 2000 or prior you would have seen a VERY different place, very active and completely packed. The only one to blame for that is Disney, they are the ones that drove their own business into the ground. Ultimately this is why they want third parties, they know they can't keep up and they just want to rent the space.

The park itself was better pre 2001...a little thing called 9/11 happened and tourism in the US has yet to recover. You can blame mismanagement all you want but in reality the clubs were just not interesting to the people who were visiting WDW.

It is always funny when people blame companies instead of themselves...if AC was SOOOO popular then why didnt you guys spend everything night there and show Disney why it should stay? Wait because it was not that popular and in essence the blame falls on the consumer for not valuing it.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Now I know you're lying. I happen to know that during peak times the AC did fairly well. No, it wasn't raking in huge amounts of money, but the club was in the black, and contrary to popular belief not everything in WDW needs to be a huge money maker.

Sometimes the Disney Difference needs to win out over the Spreadsheet Difference.

Im not lying but hey since i am not drinking the AC Kool-aid i can see why someone who challenges your wrong assertions might make you think that way.

Sorry but for something like AC it does need to be a huge money maker to justify its existence.

Your last statement alone proves to me that you have never been a manager no have you ever been in charge of money. Yeah companies can really grow when their products are barely in the black...lol

 

[AvengersWDW]

Dead is probably the wrong word, they were slow but nowhere near what they had been in the past.

I probably shouldnt of used the word Dead...but in my mind any bar or club that is less than 50% of what its occupancy should be is dead in my mind.

 

[GLaDOS]

Your last statement alone proves to me that you have never been a manager no have you ever been in charge of money.

*Looks at funding report on desk*

Yea sure.:lol:

Unfortunately Disney World was built on something called show, which is always supposed to be the driving force of a Disney attraction. You can be okay with a Disney that only relies on profit, but I'm not.

And I think a small area barely in the black is far outweighed by the massive gains the parks make. Making money isn't a problem in WDW.

 

[AvengersWDW]

*Looks at funding report on desk*

Yea sure.:lol:

Unfortunately Disney World was built on something called show, which is always supposed to be the driving force of a Disney attraction. You can be okay with a Disney that only relies on profit, but I'm not.

And I think a small area barely in the black is far outweighed by the massive gains the parks make. Making money isn't a problem in WDW.

It was built on show but also on basic business ideas. Show is not the driving force for a Disney Attraction, Show is one of FOUR principles for all attractions. People like you love to forget the other three.

Lol i am sorry that i am a realist and understand that a company that does not strive for profit will fail...do you think that if MK was doing the type of business that AC was doing then Epcot would of been built? NO, if you think otherwise i feel bad for you. You fail to realize that if you do not strive for profit you are admitting defeat. You can also strive for profit and produce a great attraction.

I feel bad that i need to give a business lesson to a guy who supposedly runs a company. Maybe i should drink the AC kool-aid and forget all business sense before i talk to him again lol

 

[AvengersWDW]

You do also realize that funding for that small area comes from whatever profit that area makes right? They are not going to pool resources from the more important Parks in order to help AC barely be in the black....

 

[Lee]

Show is not the driving force for a Disney Attraction, Show is one of FOUR principles for all attractions. People like you love to forget the other three.

Yes...the four Keys. As I recall, Show trumps Efficiency.
Failure to follow that principle is what got us Hannah Montana merch in Tomorrowland, dry fountains in Adventureland, broken AAs in Splash and a closed Adventurers Club just to name a few.
The forgetting seems to be on the part of management, forgetting that Show even exists as a principle.

You do also realize that funding for that small area comes from whatever profit that area makes right? They are not going to pool resources from the more important Parks in order to help AC barely be in the black....

That right there is the problem.
That horrible business model, only in existence at WDW for the last decade and a half or so, is at the heart of all that is wrong with the resort.
Those respondible for it should be looking for work in a more traditional business setting.

 

[devoy1701]

I can't believe we're having this conversation again.

 

[Lee]

I can't believe we're having this conversation again.

I can't believe we're having show discussions with someone who doesn't know what Horizons was...:lol:

I feel so stupid since i love disney but i have never been in Horizons and i dont know what it is

 

[pax_65]

PI should be managed as an attraction area, not a shopping area. By this I mean you have to look at the bigger picture before passing judgment on the profitability of a program, attraction, restaurant, etc.

A goal should be to draw people into this area. If you create something that draws people into the area but doesn't make a ton of money on it's own, you don't judge that by the bottom line but rather the overall impact it has on the overall profitability of the area.

So you could open up an amazing restaurant with reasonably-priced food, entertainment, special effects, whatever. If the restaurant is popular maybe it serves to bring a large number of people into the PI area. People have dinner, have drinks, experience the place, and then go out and shop.

You don't judge the success of that restaurant by their bottom line alone - you look at the impact it has on the entire area. Focusing too tightly on the bottom line of one thing is tunnel vision.

 

[GLaDOS]

It was built on show but also on basic business ideas. Show is not the driving force for a Disney Attraction, Show is one of FOUR principles for all attractions. People like you love to forget the other three.

You're absolutely right. And you know those 4 are ranked in order of importance, right? With efficiency (where the money would be considered) in dead last.

1) Safety - Don't think the clubs were offending that one

2) Courtesy - Same deal

3) Show - Nope, some were actually great shows

4) Efficiency - Some were losing money. Some were slightly in the black. Some made a lot of money. But you don't throw the profitable ones out with the unprofitable ones.

Lol i am sorry that i am a realist and understand that a company that does not strive for profit will fail...do you think that if MK was doing the type of business that AC was doing then Epcot would of been built? NO, if you think otherwise i feel bad for you. You fail to realize that if you do not strive for profit you are admitting defeat. You can also strive for profit and produce a great attraction.

I never said Disney shouldn't want to make money. that would be foolish. But the clubs (for the most part ) WERE making money. Most were in the black. Just not enough for the bean counters.

But Disneyland and Disney World were built on a business plan of offering their guests the maximum amount of entertainment, attractions, and fun while also attempting to turn a profit.

If an attraction outside the parks was profitable (which many of the clubs were), gave the best show possible (which clubs like the AC did), and guests enjoyed them (I never noticed people not enjoying themselves in the clubs), then they fit in the Disney's business plan.

I feel bad that i need to give a business lesson to a guy who supposedly runs a company. Maybe i should drink the AC kool-aid and forget all business sense before i talk to him again lol

First of all, what you're giving hardly counts as a lesson.:lol:

Second of all, I don't run a company. But even if I DID run my company, I'd be smart enough to realize what we do and what Disney does are two very different things and were built on two very different founding principles.:wave:

Walt Disney World is supposed to be an entertainment enterprise. As it stood with the clubs open, the entire resort was making tons of money, including money flowing in from a "dead" PI. But they saw bigger $$$$ from a rent check, and tried to go that route, and failed.

So now, the resort offers less value and entertainment to it's clientele, has squandered some goodwill from it's most dedicated customer base, as well as lost revenue for almost 3 and 1/2 years. How's that business plan?

Lesson: Not very good.:kiss:

 

[s8film40]

The park itself was better pre 2001...a little thing called 9/11 happened and tourism in the US has yet to recover. You can blame mismanagement all you want but in reality the clubs were just not interesting to the people who were visiting WDW.

It is always funny when people blame companies instead of themselves...if AC was SOOOO popular then why didnt you guys spend everything night there and show Disney why it should stay? Wait because it was not that popular and in essence the blame falls on the consumer for not valuing it.

Funny how City Walk or Church St. isn't complaining about how business is slow compared to pre 9/11. They were all too happy to take all the business Disney had. Plain and simply the PI concept worked very well it was hugely popular and then slowly declined. Disney as a business is responsible for keeping things active not it's customers if they can't keep a business going they have no one else but themselves to blame, they already proved their concept worked. Many others stepped up with far less resources than Disney and saw that Disney's PI was weakening and took the business for themselves. AC and Comedy warehouse were never solely the main attraction it was the nightlife experience as a whole, as their nightlife experience diminished so did the business at those clubs.

 

[GLaDOS]

I always thought PI was a bad idea and it provided to be or it would still be up and running.

PI being closed has nothing to do with it "being a bad idea" or drinking.

If drinking was the problem, people wouldn't be getting sloshed every night at Epcot.

 

[Lee]

I always thought PI was a bad idea and it provided to be or it would still be up and running.

Not the case at all.
There are numerous threads around here that explain how the demise PI had nothing to do with it being a "bad idea" and everything to do with a money-grab by management.