Plan C for Pleasure Island

[Reddog]

So they kill Hyperion Wharf because, as a turn of the century boardwalk, they were afraid of developing a property that was too closely themed to an existing resort....

and they replace it with a mardi gras themed mall closely themed to an existing resort.

Wow!

Vision!

Creativity!

This is starting to get sad....

The rumor is not that it was too close to the theme of the resort but too close to the theme of the retail area. Supposedly, the tenants of the Boardwalk felt that a similarly themed area in WDW would draw business away from them.

 

[R W B]

Since I'm born and raised in the Suburbs of New Orleans I think a New Orleans/Mardi Gras themed area would be interesting in the PI area. Would they bring in night clubs again or try to make it a family friendly Mardi Gras feel. I wouldn't mind it but I wont be bummed out if it doesn't happen, I'm 24 and after years and years of experiencing the real thing, its getting old, lol.

Having said that I've walked around both Port Orleans resorts and I do like them and the overall theme is pretty good IMO.

Are there actually strippers clawing at you to come into their room at Mardi Gras?

If so, why have I never made it down to Mardi Gras?

Yes, but those rooms are the ones you DO NOT want to go into lol.

 

[R W B]

Clubs and bars are hard to run right. People who do well working in clubs aren't going to work at Disney pay scales same with managers and for that matter outside owners aren't going to like to take the risks involved for a little bit of profit. The money just isn't there, a good club is just not family or middle age person friendly. Never will be. For that matter their is nothing family friendly about Mardi Gras just take the beads in general, look cool and all butt their whole purpose is to be thrown at people so they flash body parts at you. Not real family friendly. Mardi Gras is also built around excessive drinking, no not real family friend. I just don't think you can build a club any where in WDW that is worth the effort.

I always thought PI was a bad idea and it provided to be or it would still be up and running.

Have you ever been to Mardi Gras? Yes beads are used to be thrown to people who flash body parts and yes people get overly drunk but you have to choose that experience to experience Mardi Gras that way (I.E. Bourbon St in the French Quarter). You can also choose to have a great Family friendly style Mardi Gras too where kids of all ages will have a safe and fun time and won't see any one flashing and won't experience any more drunks then if they were going to a NFL Football or MLB Baseball game.

 

[jmmc]

Personally, I liked the concept I saw for Hyperion Wharf. Seemed like it'd be a good place to spend time. But I somehow question that all it was was the existing theme that delayed it for so long. I mean, no one could've quickly said, "similar place, new theme"?

But if it actually is a N.O. theme (it did sound like an example, maybe), I don't think it would conflict with Port Orleans too much. From my experiences, that resort isn't really like a big Mardi Gras party. The funny thing is, maybe they could sort of tie them together since you can take a boat from P.O. to Downtown Disney.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Yes...the four Keys. As I recall, Show trumps Efficiency.
Failure to follow that principle is what got us Hannah Montana merch in Tomorrowland, dry fountains in Adventureland, broken AAs in Splash and a closed Adventurers Club just to name a few.
The forgetting seems to be on the part of management, forgetting that Show even exists as a principle.


That right there is the problem.
That horrible business model, only in existence at WDW for the last decade and a half or so, is at the heart of all that is wrong with the resort.
Those respondible for it should be looking for work in a more traditional business setting.

Since i trust that you are an expert on the matter. Why do you feel it is a horrible business principle? I just ask because it does not seem sound to pool resources form the profitable and prevent them from growing to support the stagnant or losing ventures.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Funny how City Walk or Church St. isn't complaining about how business is slow compared to pre 9/11. They were all too happy to take all the business Disney had. Plain and simply the PI concept worked very well it was hugely popular and then slowly declined. Disney as a business is responsible for keeping things active not it's customers if they can't keep a business going they have no one else but themselves to blame, they already proved their concept worked. Many others stepped up with far less resources than Disney and saw that Disney's PI was weakening and took the business for themselves. AC and Comedy warehouse were never solely the main attraction it was the nightlife experience as a whole, as their nightlife experience diminished so did the business at those clubs.

You might have to go back and take some business classes in college. It does fall upon the consumers for making bad choices and messing with the market. Look that the VHS vs. Betamax fight...the much better product lost since the consumer decided to act stupid and side with VHS. You cant really blame the Sony for the mistake since they did everything within their power. The same can be said for Disney, they tried to market and push PI but the consumer was not interested and if you think that City Walk would not like the numbers it was pulling in pre-9/11 you are not thinking straight.

 

[AvengersWDW]

PI being closed has nothing to do with it "being a bad idea" or drinking.

If drinking was the problem, people wouldn't be getting sloshed every night at Epcot.

If you honestly think the drinking problem at Epoct is even a 1/5th as bad as it was at PI then i dont know what to say

 

[AvengersWDW]

Have you ever been to Mardi Gras? Yes beads are used to be thrown to people who flash body parts and yes people get overly drunk but you have to choose that experience to experience Mardi Gras that way (I.E. Bourbon St in the French Quarter). You can also choose to have a great Family friendly style Mardi Gras too where kids of all ages will have a safe and fun time and won't see any one flashing and won't experience any more drunks then if they were going to a NFL Football or MLB Baseball game.

Out of sheer curiosity is there even a place in NO to have a family friendly mardi gras?

 

[danpam1024]

Hmmm... Here's a concept! How about the theme be DISNEY?? I mean it is Downtown Disney and chances are the millions of people at Disney World are all big Disney fans, right??? I personally loved having all the Disney themed shops and hate to see them go. Especially for stores and vendors that I can shop at in the malls at home in Louisville, KY! If they want to have a mall then the least they could do is add some more unique shops. :brick:

Great idea, but since they have completely generalized all merchandise, doubtful. I mean you can't even get a refillable mug with your resort name on it anymore let alone dozens of uniquely Disney boutiques. But what do I know:lol:

 

[AvengersWDW]

I mean lets be serious here...do you guys legitimately want another Church St. environment at Disney? I have been to Church St. and besides the boring bars all that is there are drunks, violence, and recklessness.

P.S. I am not a prude, i went to ASU and have partied hard on Mill Ave. which makes Church St. seem like Sunday School, but the point is that how many people actually go to WDW in order to experience a college bar environment?

 

[devoy1701]

Since i trust that you are an expert on the matter. Why do you feel it is a horrible business principle? I just ask because it does not seem sound to pool resources form the profitable and prevent them from growing to support the stagnant or losing ventures.

It's just a horrible business principle in terms of operations of a Disney Park because it has infact killed off some unique offerings, boutique stores, smaller eateries, and places like PI and gave birth to mega stores like today's Emporium which has more or less taken the heart and soul out of the place.

If operations looks at PI as a whole with a certain sales/attendance quota that the entire area needs to hit, it allows for more unique locations and offerings that may serve smaller niche markets or demographics, or simply be looked at as a nice "plus" to average guests. So one club or store might have a lower revenue stream or operating margin, but you're increasing overall guest satisfaction to some individuals because you are offering somethign they like. An easy and not-so-detailed example is simply the original Pleasure Island concept and it's key demographic of Young Adults, Parents, or whoever who enjoyed a nightlife.

When you start looking at each location on an individual level and setting benchmarks to each one, those locations now have to be able to stand-alone and meet those goals. In order to do that, it usually means a less impressive/personalized/niche experience in order to appeal to the masses instead of certain demographics to get more people in the door and buying things. So instead of having certain offerings that cater to a large variety of demographics, it becomes more or less one type of offering that appeals to everyone, which can now make a place loose its appeal. So instead of unique clubs and experiences, we get Third Party Vendors that most people already know and can be found in many malls across the area.

Someone can ellaborate in more detail if I'm not quite getting my point across here because I'm generalizing since I don't want to spend an hour explaining this topic. this is more of a thesis discussion and not something that can easily be summed up in 2 paragraphs!

 

[wdw71fan]

Not the case at all.
There are numerous threads around here that explain how the demise PI had nothing to do with it being a "bad idea" and everything to do with a money-grab by management.

Why do you have to come in here and crap on the discussion and negate whta TDO is trying to do? Don't expect hospitality from me after the way you and others treat people in "your thread" ... I you want to whine and moan about the demise of PI, go back to the "Save the Adventurers Club" thread.. this is the thread for discussing the new things coming to DTD and for FORMER PI area..


See what I did there? Sound familiar? :wave:

 

[xdan0920]

Why do you have to come in here and crap on the discussion and negate whta TDO is trying to do? Don't expect hospitality from me after the way you and others treat people in "your thread" ... I you want to whine and moan about the demise of PI, go back to the "Save the Adventurers Club" thread.. this is the thread for discussing the new things coming to DTD and for FORMER PI area..


See what I did there? Sound familiar? :wave:

Boundless cleverness.

 

[xdan0920]

I mean lets be serious here...do you guys legitimately want another Church St. environment at Disney? I have been to Church St. and besides the boring bars all that is there are drunks, violence, and recklessness.

P.S. I am not a prude, i went to ASU and have partied hard on Mill Ave. which makes Church St. seem like Sunday School, but the point is that how many people actually go to WDW in order to experience a college bar environment?

Spoken like someone who had never been to what used to be PI.

 

[AvengersWDW]

It's just a horrible business principle in terms of operations of a Disney Park because it has infact killed off some unique offerings, boutique stores, smaller eateries, and places like PI and gave birth to mega stores like today's Emporium which has more or less taken the heart and soul out of the place.

If operations looks at PI as a whole with a certain sales/attendance quota that the entire area needs to hit, it allows for more unique locations and offerings that may serve smaller niche markets or demographics, or simply be looked at as a nice "plus" to average guests. So one club or store might have a lower revenue stream or operating margin, but you're increasing overall guest satisfaction to some individuals because you are offering somethign they like. An easy and not-so-detailed example is simply the original Pleasure Island concept and it's key demographic of Young Adults, Parents, or whoever who enjoyed a nightlife.

When you start looking at each location on an individual level and setting benchmarks to each one, those locations now have to be able to stand-alone and meet those goals. In order to do that, it usually means a less impressive/personalized/niche experience in order to appeal to the masses instead of certain demographics to get more people in the door and buying things. So instead of having certain offerings that cater to a large variety of demographics, it becomes more or less one type of offering that appeals to everyone, which can now make a place loose its appeal. So instead of unique clubs and experiences, we get Third Party Vendors that most people already know and can be found in many malls across the area.

Someone can ellaborate in more detail if I'm not quite getting my point across here because I'm generalizing since I don't want to spend an hour explaining this topic. this is more of a thesis discussion and not something that can easily be summed up in 2 paragraphs!

Its easy in theory but practice is different. Yes it is nice to have a small boutique store...but it cost money to run...so if you are making a small niche happy that is great but the cast members working there need money so infact you are depriving funds from the parks to pay cast to work there. It is just not sound business advice.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Spoken like someone who had never been to what used to be PI.

Actually i have...but hey i forgot you guys bemoan the fact that DTD is a giant mall yet you want it to be a giant bar scene like you can get in any city in the country.

Sorry i dont drink the kool-aid and i am smart enough to remember even as a kid walking past PI and sensing it is nothing more than Rush St. in Downtown Chicago or my older brother going there in the 90s and saying the same exact thing...

silly me using logic

 

[Lee]

devoy1701: Perfectly said. Disney parks and resorts should never be run the same way as a run of the mill retail operation. The attempts at doing so, while perhaps moderately successful financial, have been quite detrimental to the overall guest experience.

See what I did there? Sound familiar? :wave:

It does sound familiar. It also doesn't sound like anything I have ever said, and I don't appreciate any insinuation that it does.

 

[s8film40]

You might have to go back and take some business classes in college. It does fall upon the consumers for making bad choices and messing with the market. Look that the VHS vs. Betamax fight...the much better product lost since the consumer decided to act stupid and side with VHS. You cant really blame the Sony for the mistake since they did everything within their power. The same can be said for Disney, they tried to market and push PI but the consumer was not interested and if you think that City Walk would not like the numbers it was pulling in pre-9/11 you are not thinking straight.

I visited PI in it's earlier days as well as in it's later days. The changes that Disney made to it destroyed it. The atmosphere was gone as well as the quality of entertainment. Disney's PI customers didn't just decide to go away the PI they enjoyed went away and they stopped going. Ultimately consumers will only spend money on what they want and PI became less desirable.

 

[AvengersWDW]

devoy1701: Perfectly said. Disney parks and resorts should never be run the same way as a run of the mill retail operation. The attempts at doing so, while perhaps moderately successful financial, have been quite detrimental to the overall guest experience.

It does sound familiar. It also doesn't sound like anything I have ever said, and I don't appreciate any insinuation that it does.

Have they been detrimental to the guest experience though? As humans it is easy to think that since we dont like something that others dont but i dont know if the hatred for PI is as big as people make it. For about two years i worked at the front desk/concierge desk at disney resorts and i think only once i had a person complain about the lack of nightlife in WDW. I know i am one man and my evidence is limited but by the way people are acting it should of been a constant complaint.

 

[AvengersWDW]

I visited PI in it's earlier days as well as in it's later days. The changes that Disney made to it destroyed it. The atmosphere was gone as well as the quality of entertainment. Disney's PI customers didn't just decide to go away the PI they enjoyed went away and they stopped going. Ultimately consumers will only spend money on what they want and PI became less desirable.

Having been to City Walk recently i am partially happy that those people are not at WDW. You are right people choose where they want to spend money, but their choices are not always smart. Choosing not to go to PI was a dumb move on the consumers part not on Management...while management is not innocent they are not the full problem.