Plan C for Pleasure Island

Lee

Adventurer
Its sad when people think that going against common sense is smart business practice.

Niche Markets are niches for a reason. Sorry but a store that caters to less than 3% of the people who visit WDW should not strain other stores. Imagine Epcot not being able to be built since all the profit of MK was going to keep niche stores afloat...

As I said in my earlier post, the small and unique shops were in no way putting a strain on anything. The company's profits were just as high as they are now, and guest satisfaction at high levels.

Some shops were intended to be part of the show, not to be huge money makers. Magic Shop, Antique Shop, Perfume Shop, etc. All were designed not only to make some money, but to add to the theme and ambience of the area in which they were located. The original Imagineers and park operators understood that, and placed a higher value on show than on the P&L statement of the churro cart.

Again, you are looking at Disney as a normal business, where ordinary business practice makes good sense. It isn't and it doesn't.
Show must always come before Efficiency. It is what sets Disney apart from the competition, and makes it the "magical" place it has always been.
The Keys were put in that order for a reason, by people much smarter than those who currently call the shots.
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
My 2 thoughts:

1. Anyone who does not share a warped view on PI is somehow a banned member.
2. A person on a internet board does not know what a concierge does.

My head hurts thinking about the fact that people honestly think that 100 people online are an accurate reflection of the real world. If that was the case going to MiceChat would tell me that NO ONE IN THE WORLD likes WDW

No one said the opinions here reflect those of your "real world." Of course, the flip side is no one is saying the "real world" is reflected by your point of view either.
 

AvengersWDW

Banned
My information comes directly from sources in both TDO and Burbank.
The majority of the complaints has come in the form of emails, calls and letters to everyone from the staff at DTD to Bob Iger and Tom Staggs.
Most of the complaints comes from frequent and loyal visitors to the property who know better than to bother complaining at their hotel.


Name a couple clubs like the AC, and of equal quality, anywhere. Open or closed.

Then that answers my question. Most of the complaints come via outside sources(emails, letters, phone calls)
 

AvengersWDW

Banned
I'm not even sure why I'm getting involved here ... I could be off down in 'my' thread defending Michael Eisner (tangent: what does it say about the current Disney that folks would rather discuss a former CEO and an entertainment area that's been closed since 2008 than anything the company is actually doing now?) ... and I do wonder about any fan who was a supposed CM at WDW for two years who doesn't have a clue what Horizons was.

That's just odd at best.

But I have to tell you that PI in its heyday was absolutely NOT Rush Street or any other place. It was a unique collection of clubs, dining and shopping that was tied together with a pretty cool backstory. The problem with PI was twofold: clubs need to be freshened periodically and Disney decided around
Y2K that it wasn't willing to invest ... and then they added another mall-like venue on the other side.

I don't think very many folks want a typical bar complex at DD.

But if you think there's a market for any more Disney mall space, which is what all of DD has become, take a look around ... they aren't exactly getting new tenants unless they're just more Disney merchandise locales (which all sell the same products anyway).

~Not TODAY!~

Yeah sorry i forgot...a BET bar, a disco bar, a pop bar, a dance bar are totally unique and unlike anything you can ever find. AC was somewhat unique. Comedy Club was not.....

You guys fall under the assumption since YOU loved PI that means EVERYONE loved it and thought it was unique and awesome. Sadly that is not the case
 

AvengersWDW

Banned
So I imagine you are a fan of being able to purchase your Phineas and Furb shirt in Adventureland...Surely all the merchandice locations in the MK(specifically) do not to be an annex of the Emporium.

Olde World Antiques, the silversmith, the perfumerie existed long after Epcot and even MGM appeared. Imagine getting a shopping only pass during the holiday season simply because they were unique and did not need to generate huge profits to keep in existence.

I really dont care where i purchase my Phineas and Furb shirt. Just saying.
 

Lee

Adventurer
Then that answers my question. Most of the complaints come via outside sources(emails, letters, phone calls)
Exactly.
No experienced Disney fan would bother making a complaint at their hotel about such things. Might as well complain to a piece of shrubbery.

For something this big, you have to go straight to the seats of power, the boys in the suits. Which, in this case, may as well have actually been some shrubbary considering how much good it did.:brick:
 

AvengersWDW

Banned
As I said in my earlier post, the small and unique shops were in no way putting a strain on anything. The company's profits were just as high as they are now, and guest satisfaction at high levels.

Some shops were intended to be part of the show, not to be huge money makers. Magic Shop, Antique Shop, Perfume Shop, etc. All were designed not only to make some money, but to add to the theme and ambience of the area in which they were located. The original Imagineers and park operators understood that, and placed a higher value on show than on the P&L statement of the churro cart.

Again, you are looking at Disney as a normal business, where ordinary business practice makes good sense. It isn't and it doesn't.
Show must always come before Efficiency. It is what sets Disney apart from the competition, and makes it the "magical" place it has always been.
The Keys were put in that order for a reason, by people much smarter than those who currently call the shots.

It is true that i am looking at Disney like a regular business which i should not.

P.S. I understand that Show should always come first to Efficiency but there is one aspect that wish was reversed and sadly Disney does not care....Costuming....while it is important that costumes show aspect should fit the theme but when the costume prevents cast from being efficient that is not smart. IMO atleast
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
Exactly.
No experienced Disney fan would bother making a complaint at their hotel about such things. Might as well complain to a piece of shrubbery.

For something this big, you have to go straight to the seats of power, the boys in the suits. Which, in this case, may as well have actually been some shrubbary considering how much good it did.:brick:

did someone say Shrubbery???

:king:

I really need to get back to work. hah.
 

Lee

Adventurer
You guys fall under the assumption since YOU loved PI that means EVERYONE loved it and thought it was unique and awesome. Sadly that is not the case
No.
Everyone knows that not every guest cared about PI. Most guests never went near the place.
But...many did. Enough to justify its existence for nearly twenty years, and enough to justify reopening at least parts of it. There is a place at WDW for a dance club and a comedy club and the AC. Just like there is a place for lesser-visited spots like the mini-golf courses or Wide World of Sports.
 

AvengersWDW

Banned
Exactly.
No experienced Disney fan would bother making a complaint at their hotel about such things. Might as well complain to a piece of shrubbery.

For something this big, you have to go straight to the seats of power, the boys in the suits. Which, in this case, may as well have actually been some shrubbary considering how much good it did.:brick:

Is there even away to get to people higher up? I mean i guess a person like you can since it seems you know people in power but how can even an experienced Disney fan find away that does not involve GR or the hotline/guest evaluation department?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Great point by Lee here ... and one that we talk about frequently, but I wish people from the 'Disney is just making a smart business choice and giving folks what they say they want crowd' would read and think about and let sink into the very fiber of their fandom.

I disagree.
For nearly the first thirty years of its existence, that is exactly the way Disney ran it's parks. The whole was greater than the sum of it's parts. It allowed for a real antique shop in Liberty Square and a safari shop in Adventureland. Was Disney making less money back then? Nope.
It was about 12-15 years back that a team of MBAs came on board and decided that every single location on property had to function as it's own business. If the location then wasn't able to meet the revenue goals set for it, it was either closed (Elephant Tales) or changed (Christmas Shop).

And the concept of retail as show died very quickly with it. How many folks walk through the Adventureland flea market/outlet mall and even realize that there once were a half a dozen unique shops and that they're walled off and used for storage of pirate swords and as offices now?

How many people get that the MK wasn't all about selling the Disney BRAND, but transporting people to different times and places and selling merchandise that told the story? And do those same folks get that the lands are basically meaningless now. Might as well be a Six Flags with nicer attractions and facades.

If show matters, then you need to have shops that may barely make money or even show a paper loss.

Of course, with all those 500-pounders in their ECVs, can you imagine if the antique shop still existed?

Maybe we should all just accept that we live in a Walmarted nation and be happy at the Walmarted World of Disney?

The result has been overall negative in every way.
Yes, a higher percentage of the locations are hitting their goals, but only by selling the same merchandise as other shops and cannibalizing their business. Financially, for the company as a whole, it is a wash.
For the guests, they have lost many unique locations (Magic Shop, for instance) in favor of yet another location to sell a Grumpy sweatshirt or a silly Goofy hat.

THIS!

Having pins and vinyl and Tink hoodies in every shop does NOT increase the amount of money spent on said items. If you don't want them, then you aren't buying even if ''that's all we have'' ... or if your quota is one Goofy tee, you aren't going to suddenly buy 16 because you see it 16 different places.

They do not get this at all.

The only place Disney is making more money, arguably I'd say, is by not creating more product and not buying more from different vendors.

But destroying retail at the MK hasn't resulted in people buying Donald hats from people who never wanted one before.

A smart business person would recognize that the parks should be looked at as one giant enterprise, not a collection of small stores, bars and restaurants. The profit will remain the same, and still allow for unique and fun guest experiences. Is Disney making any more money now that PI is closed? Nope. Was the Magic Shop or Elephant Tales a drain on company finances? Nope
I guess it just makes for a cleaner spreadsheet somewhere...:brick:

I've said it before, how long until some pencil-pusher looks at something like the Electrical Water Pagent and decides that since it doesn't directly generate revenue, it should be discontinued? That is the direction we are headed with the current model.

Who cares? No one will have time for that with their entire days planned out a year in advance with X-Pass.
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
Is there even away to get to people higher up? I mean i guess a person like you can since it seems you know people in power but how can even an experienced Disney fan find away that does not involve GR or the hotline/guest evaluation department?

You can directly email/snail mail any of the executives you want to. I thought you would know this sort of thing since you worked in concierge?


I'm starting to think this whole thread is a ruse.
 

AvengersWDW

Banned
No.
Everyone knows that not every guest cared about PI. Most guests never went near the place.
But...many did. Enough to justify its existence for nearly twenty years, and enough to justify reopening at least parts of it. There is a place at WDW for a dance club and a comedy club and the AC. Just like there is a place for lesser-visited spots like the mini-golf courses or Wide World of Sports.

But look at this...Motions and Mannequins close down...the Atlantic Dance Hall has some of the same aspects both, besides the rotating dance floor, yet the people who flocked there are barely going to ADH....if there was a real need for it wouldnt Atlantic be packed?

If you want my honest opinion what i think they should do is open up AC, also open up a nicer dueling piano bar. Maybe make the Comedy Club a seasonal building. Bring in nice places like Jimmy Buffet's Cheeseburger in Paradise as an example to have a nice laid back environment. I know you probably hate it but i think Splitsville is a nice addition to DTD.
 

AvengersWDW

Banned
You can directly email/snail mail any of the executives you want to. I thought you would know this sort of thing since you worked in concierge?


I'm starting to think this whole thread is a ruse.

They only told us the general email or mail address that does not go to an individual person but the department. We at the concierge desk were not even supposed to give it out.
 

Lee

Adventurer
Is there even away to get to people higher up? I mean i guess a person like you can since it seems you know people in power but how can even an experienced Disney fan find away that does not involve GR or the hotline/guest evaluation department?

Of course.
Here on these very boards you can find the mailing and email addresses of almost every top executive in the company.
They just LOVE to hear from us!
 

Lee

Adventurer
But look at this...Motions and Mannequins close down...the Atlantic Dance Hall has some of the same aspects both, besides the rotating dance floor, yet the people who flocked there are barely going to ADH....if there was a real need for it wouldnt Atlantic be packed?

If you want my honest opinion what i think they should do is open up AC, also open up a nicer dueling piano bar. Maybe make the Comedy Club a seasonal building. Bring in nice places like Jimmy Buffet's Cheeseburger in Paradise as an example to have a nice laid back environment. I know you probably hate it but i think Splitsville is a nice addition to DTD.
The trouble with ADH is that it is stuck over at the Boardwalk. If it were in a more central, easily accessable location I'm sure it would do quite well and attract a healthy crowd. (Although I'm not sure it offers the same atmosphere as Mannequins, Motion or 8-Trax...)

As for Splitsville, I'm cool with it. Nothing wrong with an upscale bowling alley. I'd also be fine with a Cheeseburger in Paradise.
Mostly though....the Club is what it's all about.:cool:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Me either. I find myself rehashing stuff that's been beaten to death for the last 4 years.
Obviously a statement on how bored I am on my day off.:lol:

DAY OFF?!?! I didn't think you were allowed any of those ... I could have made plans to hang out, which we must do before my globetrotting lifestyle kicks in again!:cool::drevil::king:

I can only muster so much passion, even with the newbie here (Spirited tangent: 9/11 is ancient history and is not affecting WDW in any measurable way and hasn't for a good 5-6 years now ... sorry, but that has been tossed out a few times and needs a good refute!) ... I'm just hoping my DLP AP gets processed soon and that I can survive WDW and the farm first!

Are we bashing Meg or Lou now, I forgot? Or are we taking about how Disney is gonna make UNI give up Spidey and the Hulk? What about that fifth theme park that Fred the busdriver from Boston told us all is coming?

~Anyone got a gun?~
 

AvengersWDW

Banned
Im sorry but is no one else disgusted by his attack on people who use ECVs...my very close friend lost a leg in Iraq and uses and ECV in the park since it is easier on the rest of his body. :brick:
 

Lee

Adventurer
Besides your disgusting attack on people who use ECVs then i would ask if you really care about Show so much then i guess in your opinion the stores in Adventureland would not take cash but would barter with people since cash machines are not Show worthy. In tomorrowland how would you pay for items since according to Show items should be made out of material we do not have nor would they use the currency we use.

You are so fixated on show that you forget reality.
Ok, that's just silly.
Everyone knows show has its limits. :rolleyes:
DAY OFF?!?! I didn't think you were allowed any of those ... I could have made plans to hang out, which we must do before my globetrotting lifestyle kicks in again!:cool::drevil::king:
*in Omar Little voice*
Indeed...
 

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