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News Park attendance showing significant softness heading into the Fall 2018

CJR

Well-Known Member
Seems WDW is doing just fine right now...

I think it is doing fine too, it's down, but it'll certainly rebound. Management looks at everything quarter by quarter and the mindset is "grow all the time, every time". It could be down a single percent and they would be freaking out, moreso in guest spending than actual attendance.

I have a feeling guest spending is what's really the problem right now. If attendance gets below a certain mark, it's probably harder to sell outrageously priced events and dessert packages, since guests aren't saving much time and show viewing is plentiful.

I also saw mention that F&W is an issue this year. It could be due to more places copying the idea of the festival. Multiple theme parks have these now, cities have them, it's pretty much all over the country now, and cheaper to do, so it's not really as unique of an event as it once was. It doesn't help that they're also pretty much year round now, with a lot of the same stuff in the fall/spring.
 
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mikejs78

Premium Member
I don't have a problem with the parties per se - they can be fun and are a good experience. But there's way too many of them now. The park closing at 6 pm for half a week or more prevents people who don't want to go to the parties from enjoying mk. They should limit the parties to once per week, and maybe twice per week the two weeks leading up to Halloween.
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
How long ago were your previous September visits?

Last one was 2012 if I'm remembering right.
There were people here, but for some reason this current visit seems busier.
It may feel that way to me as I've been enjoying Disneyland over these past five years and this is my first trip back East since then.

It's a mixed bag...i am finding some days feel busier then others, the weekends of course , but even during the week it's been up and down.
One day DAK seems 'empty', two days later it feels 'crowded' to me.

Wait times also seem to be in flux.
Sometimes they are great...my first day at MK on Thursday had just about everything except SDMT at a 10 to 20 minute wait in the afternoon.
It was a pleasant surprise.
One didn't need to use FPs for most of the Attractions, Space Mountain included.
Other times, like yesterday at DAK, wait times around that same period of the day were much longer.

-
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Last one was 2012 if I'm remembering right.
There were people here, but for some reason this current visit seems busier.
It may feel that way to me as I've been enjoying Disneyland over these past five years and this is my first trip back East since then.

It's a mixed bag...i am finding some days feel busier then others, the weekends of course , but even during the week it's been up and down.
One day DAK seems 'empty', two days later it feels 'crowded' to me.

Wait times also seem to be in flux.
Sometimes they are great...my first day at MK on Thursday had just about everything except SDMT at a 10 to 20 minute wait in the afternoon.
It was a pleasant surprise.
One didn't need to use FPs for most of the Attractions, Space Mountain included.
Other times, like yesterday at DAK, wait times around that same period of the day were much longer.

-

I find the crowd calendars to be helpful with that. They help determine which park will be more crowded on what days, based on things like which has Extra Magic Hours that day, or which had it the night before, what party is going on, etc.
 

Clamman73

Well-Known Member
Last one was 2012 if I'm remembering right.
There were people here, but for some reason this current visit seems busier.
It may feel that way to me as I've been enjoying Disneyland over these past five years and this is my first trip back East since then.

It's a mixed bag...i am finding some days feel busier then others, the weekends of course , but even during the week it's been up and down.
One day DAK seems 'empty', two days later it feels 'crowded' to me.

Wait times also seem to be in flux.
Sometimes they are great...my first day at MK on Thursday had just about everything except SDMT at a 10 to 20 minute wait in the afternoon.
It was a pleasant surprise.
One didn't need to use FPs for most of the Attractions, Space Mountain included.
Other times, like yesterday at DAK, wait times around that same period of the day were much longer.

-
It was still low crowds in 2012....seems like 2013/2014 when it started to feel crowded in the fall until last year.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I think it is doing fine too, it's down, but it'll certainly rebound. Management looks at everything quarter by quarter and the mindset is "grow all the time, every time". It could be down a single percent and they would be freaking out, moreso in guest spending than actual attendance.

I have a feeling guest spending is what's really the problem right now. If attendance gets below a certain mark, it's probably harder to sell outrageously priced events and desert packages, since guests aren't saving much time and show viewing is plentiful.

I also saw mention that F&W is an issue this year. It could be due to more places copying the idea of the festival. Multiple theme parks have these now, cities have them, it's pretty much all over the country now, and cheaper to do, so it's not really as unique of an event as it once was. It doesn't help that they're also pretty much year round now, with a lot of the same stuff in the fall/spring.
Quite true. Our local zoo does an event called "Brew at the Zoo" event every year and that has replaced food and wine for us. It is a one price, all you can eat and drink event featuring dozens of local and national breweries and distilleries, along with even more local and national restaurants and catering companies.

We get the VIP tickets and still spend less than we would at Epcot and we can Uber to and from the house to boot.
 

Donald Razorduck

Well-Known Member
Labor Day ish time was always slow because school start, but there may be many factors at play..
Yeah the economy is booming, but not as much to allow people to swallow a lot of price increases..

Also as crowds increased over the past several years, so did the hassle. Added security checks have increased the annoyance factor, by the time you fight your way into the parking lot, get on the tram, then choose boat/MR, then security, then get thru gate, wow you are almost spent or at least frustrated. (hopefully you have a ticket and don't kneed to rent a stroller)

LOL, now you ready for a CM to ask you about a brief survey..

Six Flags and Cedar parks are going gang busters and at a much less cost. They are also adding compelling g new rides at many of their parks. Silver Dollar City is my home park and their new Time Traveler coaster was one show building at the first launch away from being a truely outstanding ride. Instead, it is just great.
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
I feel like at the start of every season we get a 'oh no, attendance is looking down' and folks go on for 20 pages talking about how 'this is the end' and 'pricing out of the market'...you know...everything the last 10 pages has been about.

And then the quarterly earnings come out and hotel occupancy is fine and attendance is +/- a couple of percentage points, almost always made up by spending.

I do think we will start seeing the impact of Galaxy's Edge on attendance, although it doesn't appear they prepared the Analysts for an impact.

That being said, when the attendance does slow down, which it definitely will at some point ahead of GE for WDW, the Analysts are going to freak out. There are already folks out in that community complaining about how much CapEx P&R is using for these expansions vs the revenue they bring in currently (a stupid assessment IMO).
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
are you privy to the trending of disney springs resort area hotels?
No. I am not really privy to much "official" information that does not come second hand.

What I am privy to are a group of people that watch the discounts Disney offers quite closely and the availability of said discounts suggests that they have more empty rooms to fill than either what is normal, expected or both.
 

CaptainAmerica

Well-Known Member
Calling you out for BS. Please actually look at any of TWDC quarterly filings. There is no such information in there. For accounting perspective assets that are under renovation or construction are treated differently.
Maybe don't call people out for BS when you don't know what you're talking about? From the Q3 earnings call:

"Occupancy at our domestic hotels was down about 2 percentage points to 86%, reflecting reduced room inventory due to room refurbishments and conversions."

Reduced inventory due to refurbishments and conversions results in reduced occupancy percentage. If your theory were correct, exactly the opposite would be true.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
Maybe don't call people out for BS when you don't know what you're talking about? From the Q3 earnings call:

"Occupancy at our domestic hotels was down about 2 percentage points to 86%, reflecting reduced room inventory due to room refurbishments and conversions."

Reduced inventory due to refurbishments and conversions results in reduced occupancy percentage. If your theory were correct, exactly the opposite would be true.
It says reflecting, not caused by. If it is down 2% AND room inventory is down, that makes it even worse.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
Do you really expect anyone to tell the whole truth in advertising?

"It is a fair kid section" does not exactly open wallets.

LOL, exactly. What are they supposed to do? Not promote it?

Most knew what they were getting with TSL. TSL was never going to be a massive draw, just a reality, not a knock on the land. Not many were going to rush to WDW for TSL.
 

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