Orlando High Speed Rail IS DEFINITE

[lazyboy97o]

The Acela line does not have "decades old track." The track is replaced every couple of years....

I said "was" and there are still plenty of places where the existing conditions not intended for high speed limit the abilities of the trainsets.

 

[googilycub]

I said "was" and there are still plenty of places where the existing conditions not intended for high speed limit the abilities of the trainsets.

Was, is, doesn't matter. Before Acela, Amtrak was running 125mph with conventional equipment. Also the track stucture is fine for higher speeds, the right of way alignment and overhead catenary are not....

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Federal regs prohibit the use of "their" funds to go to projects that are perceived to primarily serve tourists. This is how they achieve their projected ridership of 4300 per day.

Wow, is this true? If so, it would help explain why C. Fla has yet to achieve a real mass transportation system that serves the areas where demand is greatest.

If this is so, it sounds like a good example of a rule designed to help most areas (by favoring everyday commuters over visitors), but that fails miserably in an area where visitors make up such a huge portion of travelers as is the case in and around Orlando. Sounds like a good example of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

 

[jt04]

Wow, is this true? If so, it would help explain why C. Fla has yet to achieve a real mass transportation system that serves the areas where demand is greatest.

If this is so, it sounds like a good example of a rule designed to help most areas (by favoring everyday commuters over visitors), but that fails miserably in an area where visitors make up such a huge portion of travelers as is the case in and around Orlando. Sounds like a good example of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Couldn't agree more. Born out of the narrow thinking of favoring 'good intentions' over real results. It worries me that so many seem to be unable to consider possible unintended consequences (good or bad) to all manner of issues.

 

[jt04]

Well, we do agree on the promise of MCO to WDW. I just don't see why that should subsidize what may be a money losing leg out to lakeland/tampa. Run it from MCO to i-drive to WDW and be done with it. At those distances it doesn't even need to be high speed, unless you want to plan for the future run. They certainly should be considering building that part first, as you mention.

On another note, I wonder what will happen to all of the now newly unused taxi/shuttle services. Remember the hub-bub that arose from the taxi drivers once DME started up? People will gain jobs from HSR, but others will lose .



What are the trend lines? I honestly don't know.

Actually I think an increase in any land transportation such as would be provided by HSR would increase demand for taxi services. Since people would be more likely to leave the car at home, many would use a taxi service to get to and from a rail station. So your premise may be flawed (see post #146 above). Also, I think the new transportation systems we are talking about would increase visits to Orlando theme parks which would increase ticket sales which would spur expansion in the parks which would bring in more tourists. Many visitors will want to visit sites other than just those in Orlando and Tampa (as they do now) and so they will rent cars as their option. Therefore I don't even think car rentals would decline much, if at all.

As for trend lines, there is a population bubble of people retiring over the next 10 to 15 years (boomers). People will always retire to warm weather sites in large percentages. Florida is a warm weather site. Therefore we can assume by what has happened in the past, that Florida's population will continue to increase rather dramatically. Housing and cost of living are relatively cheap so that is also a big attraction for those on a set income.

 

[jt04]

The rumblings continue...

However, I don't agree with the premise of the title that the project is "stalled". The govenor has not even been sworn in yet. The article is interesting and has some very interesting news that has not been widely discussed yet. So here you go....

http://www.theledger.com/article/20101215/NEWS/101219649/?p=1&tc=pg

 

[redshoesrock]

Very interesting news. I am definitely all for high-speed rail in Central Florida, so I am keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[jt04]

I hope that you're really laughing, because that's not what it's going to take to have everyone flying where they need to go . The issue with everyone having flying planes isn't the technology, it's just one of many. The real problem is controlling traffic. Getting a flat tire on a road is quite different from an engine failure, or bird strike, or running low on fuel in an airplane. Then imagine thousands of these vehicles in the air at once. Unless they come up with a good automated system or something to solve the problem of thousands of flying vehicles in the air, and handle failure scenarios, we're very very far away from getting there

Actually not really............ "Pocket Airports".......

http://www.gizmag.com/pocket-airports-would-link-neighborhoods-by-air/17296/


Happening sooner than anyone would ever guess.

 

[jt04]

Here is a new article that strikes a nice optimistic tone. And adds another reason why Tampa to Orlando is a good idea. Since so many people visit central Florida from around the country it will allow many more people to experience the technology.

I also believe that this article is accurate when it comes to the new govenors position on the issue than the article that appeared in the OrSen a couple days ago that lacked a factual basis and was derived from the feelings of some unamed bueraucrat.

So heres the link....

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/18/13214...ith-high-speed-rail-projects?ft=1&f=132149924

 

[TP2000]

Here is a new article that strikes a nice optimistic tone. ..I also believe that this article is accurate when it comes to the new govenors position on the issue than the article that appeared in the OrSen a couple days ago that lacked a factual basis and was derived from the feelings of some unamed bueraucrat.

Yeah, cause National Public Radio certainly isn't left of center with a clear socio-political agenda. :lol:

I listen to NPR on occasion, and it has it's good points, but those folks running that government-subsidized public radio network have more in common with a Socialist sipping espresso in a Brussels cafe while waiting for the local trolley than they do with an American chugging a Big Gulp while driving Disney World on I-4 in their Suburban.

Or at least the NPR crowd would love people to think they have more in common with those Euro Socialists through their tony and dryly humorous subsidized radio reports with a local listening audience of about 8 people.

 

[The Mom]

Be very careful - some of you are pushing the "no political discussions" rule.

 

[jt04]

Here is the official site for HSR in Florida with an updated fact sheetsheet (with 1 artist concept TP2000! ) Link

http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org

I definitely support the I-95 option for phase 2. That could link MCO to the Cocoa area (a station there could connect to services to Port Canaveral and Kennedy Space Center), a second station could connect indirectly or directly to Melbourne and Melbourne International Airport and a third station in the Fort Pierce area.

In my opinion HSR only needs to extend this far at this time. The Fort Pierce station could become a major hub because the Turnpike and I -95 converge/diverge in this location. Tri-rial can be upgraded to serve the southern coast if service is extended from West Palm Beach up to Fort Pierce.

I think the Orlando/Tampa segment could be so successful that private sector investors could fund phase 2 as long as the state of Florida and the US government provided the right of way. If phase 2 follows the Bee Line and I-95 procuring the land should be rather easy.

Just my opinion. We welcome yours

 

[JEANYLASER]

I think that's a great idea for Disney!

 

[mp2bill]

I hope it flops and goes and stays in the RED like Tri-Rail did in Ft. Lauderdale. The ridership is so low it has been in the red since day one. I know that I won't be using it to goto Tampa. I'd prefer to use my van and get to where I want to go and not have to rely on other transportation when I get there.

Why would you say this? Do you really want your state to waste $2.7 Billion?

IMHO, high speed rail needs to be an interstate system so that it's able to compete with the aviation system. I don't know how much extra it would cost (is most of the $2.7 Billion R&D or the actual infrastructure?), but once again, IMHO Florida should look into building a high speed rail system from Miami to Jacksonville, Miami to Gainsville via Tampa, and over to the panhandle. Then they can connect Tampa to Daytona Beach via Orlando.

One from Orlando to Tampa seems like kind of a waste to me and too little of a benefit to justify the cost. So I can agree with you based on the lack of benefit, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that "I hope (a multi-billion dollar project) flops." Especially in my home state.

 

[SeaCastle]

The one question I have is what does this mean for travellers going to WDW flying in from Orlando? From our family's perspective, it makes much more sense to catch a free bus from the airport that takes us directly to our hotel, rather than drop a fair sum of money on train fare (that we would have to schedule depending on our flight) then transfer from the rail station to our hotel.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but it takes usually a half hour to get off our flight and into the lobby of our hotel. Between waiting for our luggage to be picked up, waiting for the train to come, and waiting for an alternate form of transportation from the station to our hotel seems like it would take a lot more than a half hour, and a lot less convenient and more indirect.

 

[jt04]

The one question I have is what does this mean for travellers going to WDW flying in from Orlando? From our family's perspective, it makes much more sense to catch a free bus from the airport that takes us directly to our hotel, rather than drop a fair sum of money on train fare (that we would have to schedule depending on our flight) then transfer from the rail station to our hotel.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but it takes usually a half hour to get off our flight and into the lobby of our hotel. Between waiting for our luggage to be picked up, waiting for the train to come, and waiting for an alternate form of transportation from the station to our hotel seems like it would take a lot more than a half hour, and a lot less convenient and more indirect.

Disney has not made any announcements but this is my guess as to how it will work.

Transportation will still be free with your resort stay. So instead of taking a bus you will take the train. Your baggage will still be checked through to your room.

You will then catch a bus at the station on Disney property but the difference is you will have the option of going directly to any resort (dinner reservations etc) or theme park (you would already have your length of stay passes or they could be picked up at any 'guest services' with proper ID) or you could be taken directly to your home resort (Magical Express does not offer this service) or you may be going directly to DTD.

Since Disney will know exactly when each train is arriving, they will be able to have transportation waiting at the station. They will also know the numbers of guests arriving with reasonable accuracy so a seat will be assured.

Finally, the trains will be reliable and punctual. ME can't make that promise as it depends on I-4 traffic conditions.

The benefit is that this will relieve traffic on I-4 and reduce wear and tear and possibly eliminate the need for further widenings after those already scheduled. I just read it will cost 3 BILLION DOLLARS to widen I-4 from Tampa to just Lakeland if it becomes necessary again. That is more than the cost of HSR from Tampa all the way to Orlando! HSR is a no brainer, at least in this instance.

 

[JEANYLASER]

thanks for the info!

 

[stlbobby]

I just read it will cost 3 BILLION DOLLARS to widen I-4 from Tampa to just Lakeland if it becomes necessary again. That is more than the cost of HSR from Tampa all the way to Orlando! HSR is a no brainer, at least in this instance.

But $3 billion spent on a highway is $3 billion spent on freedom, while $3 billion spent on HSR is $3 billion spent on socialism.

(Sarcasm)

 

[jt04]

But $3 billion spent on a highway is $3 billion spent on freedom, while $3 billion spent on HSR is $3 billion spent on socialism.

(Sarcasm)

Don't think for a second that the purpose of HSR for some out there is the desired elimination of the personal auto. Because there are people that think like that. I have had them tell me so. :brick:

(no sarcasm)


HSR is useful where highways and air travel are overcrowded or will be in the long term. Such as Orlando.

 

[stlbobby]

Don't think for a second that the purpose of HSR for some out there is the desired elimination of the personal auto. Because there are people that think like that. I have had them tell me so. :brick:

(no sarcasm)


HSR is useful where highways and air travel are overcrowded or will be in the long term. Such as Orlando.

The world would be so much better without personal auto's, or at least our total dependence on them.

Somehow society has equated owning a car with some sort of constitutional freedom, when in reality it is one of the greatest personal burdens ever placed on a person.

I bow to the marketing genii that created this myth and embedded it in the American culture.