NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney"

[WDW1974]

There aren't enough attractions in IOA to last past the 2:00 mark, but hey, DAK has the same problem (and so does Hollywood-MGM-Pixar Studios for repeat visitors).

I will in turn respectfully disagree ... since we like and respect each other and allthat I find plenty enough to stay a full day at both IOA and DAK, although I'll also state that I very rarely do so at either (or any) park any longer. I'm just not a rope drop to being pushed out kinda Spirit ... I recently went to Busch Gardens Williamsburg for the first time (and 2nd and 3rd too!) and never did a full day or even 3/4ers of one.

That said, I think I could easily make an argument that there are enough things to do at both parks, but one has to desire to do them ... I won't do the soakers at both parks (or BGW or anywhere) for example.

I will respectfully disagree with you regarding the price point because many Disney guests visit Universal specifically for Potter, which means they're spending $95, which also means they're not getting their money's worth from Universal IMHO. You and I both know that Disney has lost guests for a day now; even guests staying on property are walking through the lobbies wearing HP merch.

I see that all the time now ... and the only TDO managers/execs who don't see it are the ones who never visit their own parks and resorts. It's not just Potter stuff, though ... always see lots of Seuss stuff (the Thing 1 and Thing 2 tees are very popular) and Marvel stuff too ... oh, but that's Disney and/or UNI!

BTW, I bet there's lots of people in SoCal hotels this weekend sporting DCA items.

But yeah, I usually get in for free. This was just a one-time deal. I've been to Mythos plenty of times in the past and wanted the HP food this time.

And don't you ever compare me to those Pixie Dust Addicts.

BTW, I've gotta point out that Forbidden Journey is still the most amazing attraction to be unveiled since ToT. I haven't been to Carsland yet, but judging from the video, there's no way it comes anywhere close to FJ. I give huge credit to WhyLightbulb and others who helped create WWOHP.

I dunno about that ... I have heard VERY good things from people I trust regarding the quality of Carsland vs. WWoHP ... I think they are both clearly the top of themed areas/attractions in USA parks today. I caught the last 30 minutes of Cars (and the new and very neat CarToon) on ABC tonight and I admit it was getting me very psyched about visiting the REAL Radiator Springs.

 

[invader]

Agreed about the guest service. I think I've mentioned it in other threads - Universal's guest service has VASTLY improved and, dare I say it? Rivals or surpasses WDW's current service.

They've become much nicer and much more shall I say relaxed compared to previously. Until I see a "don't worry about it" attitude that WDW has I won't agree on your last statement. At WDW if you accidentally drop your Mickey Bar "Oh, let me get you a new one," where as at Uni if you spill your Butterbeer it's "That'll be another five bucks." It may not sound like a big deal, it just make it much more personal in my opinion.

 

[WDW1974]

I have no insider information but this makes sense, Disney senior management feeling that it does not need to invest in WDW. As a percentage of park attendance, it's my understanding that DL/DCA have a much higher percentage of repeat guests than WDW. Most WDW guests only visit a few times in their lifetimes. To them, each trip is special. They are much less likely to notice mechanical flaws in the parks.

That's not really the case or, perhaps a better way of saying it is that the difference in returning guests at the two resorts isn't nearly as great as some would state. Most WDW guests these days are returnees from what people inside the company have told me and just what I expereince and see on an anecdotal basis.

And I would guess a WDW (or DLR) visit is special regardles of whether it's an only visit or an only visit this month. It should be or why go?

And I fundamentally disagree with your point on flaws being noticed ... you can be a first-timer from India and if you ride Splash Mountain and half the AAs are not functioning, you'll instinctively get something is wrong ... they aren't supposed to look dead.

In addition, the existing WDW infrastructure is so large that most guests aren't able to see & do everything in a typical one week American vacation. WDW has a larger international contingent than DL and these guests may stay longer but, as a whole, I suspect these guests visit WDW even less frequently. (Please note that these are generalizations and I am just speculating; I recognize that there will be exceptions and I am not writing these things as facts, just conjecture.)

IMHO, from a business perspective, this makes much more sense than the Walt Disney Company trying to sell WDW.

Well, I'll let you conjecture to your heart's content, but I think you are generalizing too much. There are APers in places all around the globe. If you live in Ireland, but have WDW APs and visit twice a year for 10-14 days at a time, you're a virtual local. And I'm not sure that WDW attracts more internationals (percentage wise out of the entire pie) than DLR does, although I'm sure they do in pure numbers.

 

[WDW1974]

Sadly that sounds just about right.

So which project is he working on? The great one or the amazing one? Or the biggest one?

If you heard him talk, it probably would sound like all of the above!

 

[Tom Morrow]

They've become much nicer and much more shall I say relaxed compared to previously. Until I see a "don't worry about it" attitude that WDW has I won't agree on your last statement. At WDW if you accidentally drop your Mickey Bar "Oh, let me get you a new one," where as at Uni if you spill your Butterbeer it's "That'll be another five bucks." It may not sound like a big deal, it just make it much more personal in my opinion.

I literally did spill my Butterbeer once after just sitting down to drink it and they gave me a new one, complimentary... I've also gotten complimentary "fastpass" tickets (each one is good for one express pass entrance on the ride of your choice) just for having to wait a couple minutes longer than normal.

I can totally see how Universal before Potter would give you that impression, but I think they have, and are still taking huge steps to having quality guest service.

 

[WDW1974]

Yes, I know I'm probably the only person on earth who doesn't get a thrill up my leg about Spiderman. That's 100% just me. At least let me explain. IMHO--my extremely humble opinion--the cardboard-flat queue at Spidey leaves much to be desired. It's almost a comic-book aesthetic, but on the cheap. Then the ride basically whisks you through 3-D screens and some blacklight sets while villains yell that they're gonna' get you. Your vehicle shakes every time they touch it. The final scene where you "fall" is impressive, but there's so much confusion leading up to it, I don't feel any connection to this ride. I get the same feeling from the Mummy. It's just a series of scenes where someone yells he's gonna' get you. (One way...or another...I'm gonna' find ya...I'm gonna' get ya, get ya, get ya, get ya...)

I feel many things when riding Spidey (presented by Marvel Studios, part of the MAGIC of The Walt Disney Co!) but cheap ain't one of them. I'm also not thrilled with the queue, but I understand the entire comic book look they were going for. ... But as for the ride experience, the story is pretty obvious and I have no problem immersing myself in the world of your friendly neighborhood super-hero whose rights are spread across multiple media conglomerates. I love the ride and I haven't even been back since it was redone.

FJ works because of the brief calm moments that lead up to the encounters. The flight through the observatory; the seconds of thrilling flight before the dragon attacks; the quidditch match; and the fully realized return over the water, into Hogwarts, to Harry and friends, to Dumbledore, and finally into the hall--it's storytelling at its best.

Can't disagree there.

Universal's biggest issue right now is maintenance throughout all of IOA except WWOHP. Hogsmeade was incredible, while the rest of the park barely performed above Six Flags. It seems they're dumping all their budget into keeping WWOHP in top condition, which is understandable. Too bad the rest of the park suffers.

I've never been to a Six Flags, well except for the water park they used to have in the 80s/early 90s in SoFla. But I can't say I've experienced what you did. I haven't been there in 13 months (was there twice early last year), but what I saw was the entire park looking better than it had in years. I attributed it to the Potter Effect.

There's no doubt about it. WWOHP is far beyond what anyone else has done anywhere; judging from pictures, I'd include Carsland in that mix. An updated Test Track with Cars AAs is still just that; Forbidden Journey is an entirely new ride system.

I love Potter, but I'd wait to experience Carsland first. I have the feeling it is an equally impressive environment. But I am a sucker for Cars and the whole Route 66 lore ...

 

[menamechris]

And I fundamentally disagree with your point on flaws being noticed ... you can be a first-timer from India and if you ride Splash Mountain and half the AAs are not functioning, you'll instinctively get something is wrong ... they aren't supposed to look dead.

I just have to point out that I rode Splash tonight - and all of the effects seemed to be working besides the effects in the cavern scenes. I still don't know what is so difficult about getting the dancing water fountains to work - or to have the water turned on under the turtles - but apparently it is. Anyways, just my experience tonight. I does look like they have seriously been listening and taking care of a lot of the maintenance issues. And while I do ,y fair share of pointing out what I am not pleased with - I feel its important to point out and applaud the positive too. It was nice to have only a couple show elements not working tonight, as opposed to 50% like other times i have in the recent past....

 

[StageFrenzy]

I just have to point out that I rode Splash tonight - and all of the effects seemed to be working besides the effects in the cavern scenes. I still don't know what is so difficult about getting the dancing water fountains to work - or to have the water turned on under the turtles - but apparently it is. Anyways, just my experience tonight. I does look like they have seriously been listening and taking care of a lot of the maintenance issues. And while I do ,y fair share of pointing out what I am not pleased with - I feel its important to point out and applaud the positive too. It was nice to have only a couple show elements not working tonight, as opposed to 50% like other times i have in the recent past....

Progress is progress, "It's a great big beautiful tomorrow" right? On one level it's nice to hear almost everything is working on splash. That truly is great for maintenance and for all guests that experience the ride. Lord knows they have a lot of work on that ride. On the other hand you may applaud a 4 yr old for counting to 7 out of 25, But a 30yr old you would think was down right idiotic.

 

[bubbles1812]

I think a more pertinent question would be, "Would it be more amazing than it is redundant?"

I think it would be on the more amazing end than the redundant end. They are two different stories. Yes, they have similar ride systems but again, two different stories. And it's not like redundancy isn't part of all theme parks...otherwise there would only be one dark ride in DL/WDW. There isn't that much that separates say Pooh from the upcoming Little Mermaid ride when it comes to the actual ride system. But people don't necessarily take much note because the stories/characters are different. Or heck, think about Star Tours and Body Wars (Before it was closed...ahh Wonders of Life pavilion...they could do so much with it and yet they just leave it to rot. Sigh). But I never had an issue going on both because the stories were so different. Transformers seems like a very very fun ride and that's coming from someone who thinks the movies are crap. It's a very popular franchise and I think it would be one more great addition to Uni. I would also love to see Universal bring the Madagascar ride to Orlando sometime in the future too.

 

[bubbles1812]

While I do agree that FJ is an absolutely incredible ride, I feel the story is lacking. Universal's premises are usually pretty good (you are agents training for MIB, you are muggles attending an open house lecture at Hogwarts, etc), but the actual plot of the rides tend to devolve into a lot of chaos and things being thrown in your face just for the sake of it. In Forbidden Journey, for example, why exactly do the dementors attack a Quidditch match? It isn't explained and it doesn't make sense, it exists for the sake of giving you the thrill of having them attack you. The climax of the action is very cliche' - "it's caving in!!" What is caving in, and why? You are then congradulated by the Hogwarts students, Harry, and Dumbledore even though you didn't do anything and if anything, Dumbledore should be mad at you for sneaking out.

Another poster mentioned that Disney always uses "something goes terribly wrong!", but if anything, I feel Disney has done a great job avoiding that with most of the recent efforts.

That said, this stuff doesn't really bother me that much, and I think their goal is just to give their demographic a lot of what it wants - action.


As someone who frequents all the Orlando parks and heavily scrutinizes show quality and upkeep, I strongly disagree here. You may not have seen IOA in the years leading up to WWOHP, but it was a mess. Ever since WWoHP opened, though, I am amazed at the upkeep. Everything looks fresh and new, everything works, the rides probably never looked and sounded better, and its extremely rare to see a major (or even minor) show effect not working. As we all know, the same can not be said for WDW.

Sure, Marvel Superhero Island and Toon Lagoon have theming comparable to Six Flags (though still much better - sometimes I doubt people on here have actually been to a Six Flags park), but they were built that way, its not a recent thing and its not neglect.

Well, the dementors attacking a Quidditch match is somewhat straight out of the book so I didn't find that surprising that they put it there. Based on what took place in the books, I think that was the most organic place they could put it And Dumbledore getting mad? I'd think he'd just look at you and Harry with a twinkle in his eye Sorry, just teasing. I do agree there I'd agree there is some chaos to a degree in some of the plots of Uni's rides. Though that stuff doesn't really bother me either. And I do like some action... I also cut Disney the same sort of slack as well. I don't think they have nearly as big of an issue when it comes to chaotic plots and rides but on some, consider if you didn't know the plots of the Disney movies...I don't think some of the rides would make that much sense either. But I'd still enjoy them

I do really agree too about the cleanliness of Universal in the last few years since the advent of Potter. Before that, the parks felt dirty. I guess with the influx of more cash plus their probable desire to impress new and old quests enough to get them to come back for repeat visits has allowed them to clean up the parks more. That was/is always one of the reasons I liked Disney to begin with. It's not even about how well something is themed necessarily as long as it's kept in good condition and everything is kept clean.

 

[marni1971]

SS44 is possible, esp since they were doing balloon height testing... But couldn't it also go between MIB and Simpsons?

Unless the plans have recently been scrapped that area was reserved for something since MIB opened.

 

[TP2000]

So which [Disneyland Resort] project is he working on? The great one or the amazing one? Or the biggest one?

You know what my favorite part of this hilarious thread is?....

All the great information from insiders that "great" and "amazing" new stuff is coming to the Disneyland Resort soon! As if we weren't already blessed with Cars Land and the New DCA and a Disneyland that sparkles more than anytime I can remember in the last few decades... there's even more big new rides coming to Anaheim towards the middle of this decade?!?

After a very full two days at DCA in the last 48 hours, info like that just makes my head twirl.

 

[Californian Elitist]

You know what my favorite part of this hilarious thread is?....

All the great information from insiders that "great" and "amazing" new stuff is coming to the Disneyland Resort soon! As if we weren't already blessed with Cars Land and the New DCA and a Disneyland that sparkles more than anytime I can remember in the last few decades... there's even more big new rides coming to Anaheim towards the middle of this decade?!?

After a very full two days at DCA in the last 48 hours, info like that just makes my head twirl.

Stop it TP, don't rub it in! LOL, just kidding, that's my favorite part of this thread too. Out of everthing, all I've heard in this thread is Disneyland may be getting new rides. That's beyond great news to me and I hope these rumors and statements are actually true. I say keep the new additions coming. Now that everything is completed at DCA, I'm now looking forward to Fantasy Faire.

 

[tirian]

I see that all the time now ... and the only TDO managers/execs who don't see it are the ones who never visit their own parks and resorts. It's not just Potter stuff, though ... always see lots of Seuss stuff (the Thing 1 and Thing 2 tees are very popular) and Marvel stuff too ... oh, but that's Disney and/or UNI!

BTW, I bet there's lots of people in SoCal hotels this weekend sporting DCA items.



I dunno about that ... I have heard VERY good things from people I trust regarding the quality of Carsland vs. WWoHP ... I think they are both clearly the top of themed areas/attractions in USA parks today. I caught the last 30 minutes of Cars (and the new and very neat CarToon) on ABC tonight and I admit it was getting me very psyched about visiting the REAL Radiator Springs.

I'm referring to the ride, not the land. Carsland is obviously on the same level of detail.

In a couple of days, I will be able to judge for myself.

 

[JT3000]

I think it would be on the more amazing end than the redundant end. They are two different stories. Yes, they have similar ride systems but again, two different stories. And it's not like redundancy isn't part of all theme parks...otherwise there would only be one dark ride in DL/WDW. There isn't that much that separates say Pooh from the upcoming Little Mermaid ride when it comes to the actual ride system. But people don't necessarily take much note because the stories/characters are different. Or heck, think about Star Tours and Body Wars (Before it was closed...ahh Wonders of Life pavilion...they could do so much with it and yet they just leave it to rot. Sigh). But I never had an issue going on both because the stories were so different. Transformers seems like a very very fun ride and that's coming from someone who thinks the movies are crap. It's a very popular franchise and I think it would be one more great addition to Uni. I would also love to see Universal bring the Madagascar ride to Orlando sometime in the future too.

I don't think Spider-Man & Transformers are comparable to traditional dark rides. Most people probably go to theme parks expecting them to have several dark rides, based on Disney's model. It's such a basic, traditional form of ride that all they really need are different themes & effects to set them apart completely.

Likewise, most people aren't going to complain if a park/resort has more than one simulator, mainly because it's such a common ride system, although I personally do find them redundant.

Spider-Man & Transformers, on the other hand, use a more unique, very specific ride system that creates a pretty similar experience IMO. The fact that it's a screen-based attraction is largely to blame, as there aren't going to be as many practical effects to set them apart, unlike in dark rides. The fact that Transformers seems to purposely mimic Spider-Man in several places doesn't help either. If they were to build Transformers at UO, I would hope to see several key scenes changed to help differentiate the two.

Putting Transformers in USF would also create another redundancy problem -- it would be the park's 4th 3-D attraction. And let's assume they put it in SS44's place. That would put 3 of the 4 attractions directly across from each other, with another nearby. Seems like overkill to me.

Unless the plans have recently been scrapped that area was reserved for something since MIB opened.

MIB opened 12 years ago. I'm inclined to think if they (still) had something planned, they would have built it by now.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Unless the plans have recently been scrapped that area was reserved for something since MIB opened.

Interesting... Since whylightbulb has said he has heard rumblings that the area was being looked at...

 

[marni1971]

Interesting... Since whylightbulb has said he has heard rumblings that the area was being looked at...

Oh I'm Sure he is right. Basically I knew of a second phase of MIB that was never built but the land was left open for. You can see the M and the I on the facade? Well, the other part would also incorporate the B. But of they have better use for the land then I hope they go for it.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Am I the only one who has seen the writing on the wall about the upcoming Disneyland projects? I have no inside info, but I'm pretty sure we're talking about:

- A motion base boat ride E-ticket coming to Frontierland (same technology as Pirates Shanghai). Could it be Lone Ranger themed? Or a nod to Western River Expedition?
- A movie-themed E-ticket in Tomorrow. Either Iron Man or Avengers themed. Or maybe a clone of Shanghai's Tron motorbike coaster?

- Something very big and involving the much-ballyhooed Strawberry Field (as hinted by Lee). A third gate? A waterpark? Something else?

Lee, Spirit, Marni or anyone else in the know... care to let us know if I'm hot or cold?

Warm across the board.

I vaguely remember a concept for a boat ride where the boats themselves hide CTX Rover type hydrolics. Is that what's being discussed?

Hmmm...I wonder if it would be just as amazing in Orlando

You're talking crazy talk.

I dunno about that ... I have heard VERY good things from people I trust regarding the quality of Carsland vs. WWoHP ... I think they are both clearly the top of themed areas/attractions in USA parks today. I caught the last 30 minutes of Cars (and the new and very neat CarToon) on ABC tonight and I admit it was getting me very psyched about visiting the REAL Radiator Springs.

I'm in Alaska right now, ready to kick off part one of my Honeymoon, and I made sure to bring Cars 1 and Cars 2 for the flight to LAX next week.

I feel many things when riding Spidey (presented by Marvel Studios, part of the MAGIC of The Walt Disney Co!) but cheap ain't one of them. I'm also not thrilled with the queue, but I understand the entire comic book look they were going for. ... But as for the ride experience, the story is pretty obvious and I have no problem immersing myself in the world of your friendly neighborhood super-hero whose rights are spread across multiple media conglomerates. I love the ride and I haven't even been back since it was redone.

Yeah, I don't get the IOA Fanboy love for the queue. To me, it's no more impressive than the Mike and Sully to the Rescue queue at DCA. It's nice, but not anything special. On the other hand, the ride is phenomenal.

I will say that IOA rides are limiting. Not just from an adult vs. kids standpoint, but from an adults to an "adults that can handle certain levels of intensity standpoint". There's a healthy mixture of thrill rides, but on any given day most people aren't going to want to ride certain attractions. For that reason, I can see how people still view it as a half day park. For myself, there's enough there for me to go for 6-8 hours pretty easily, even on a low crowd day.

I just have to point out that I rode Splash tonight - and all of the effects seemed to be working besides the effects in the cavern scenes. I still don't know what is so difficult about getting the dancing water fountains to work - or to have the water turned on under the turtles - but apparently it is. Anyways, just my experience tonight. I does look like they have seriously been listening and taking care of a lot of the maintenance issues. And while I do ,y fair share of pointing out what I am not pleased with - I feel its important to point out and applaud the positive too. It was nice to have only a couple show elements not working tonight, as opposed to 50% like other times i have in the recent past....

Could the overhead water effects also be lumped into the "no overhead effects, because they can't be trusted" rule that seems to be rearing it's ugly head lately?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Oh I'm Sure he is right. Basically I knew of a second phase of MIB that was never built but the land was left open for. You can see the M and the I on the facade? Well, the other part would also incorporate the B. But of they have better use for the land then I hope they go for it.

Me too... Me too...

 

[menamechris]

Could the overhead water effects also be lumped into the "no overhead effects, because they can't be trusted" rule that seems to be rearing it's ugly head lately?

Well, they don't seem to be applying that alleged new rule to water. The shot of water that they let lose after every other "drop" is still working. Not to mention - that would mean they wouldn't be allowed to have the new Casey's train play area shooting water at kids. And that also wouldn't explain why they wouldn't have the water on under the turtles. Something must be broken with the fountains that either is more expensive than it seems like it should be - or they something more complicated it wrong with the show scene...