NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney"

[lazyboy97o]

And if they had to go back to really old plans to start off new FLE...what exactly does that say about their creativity at the moment? Not saying it's terrible they went back to Walt's original plans but it'd be nice too if the current creative team came up with stuff on their own too.

Fantasyland being based in Walt-era plans is nonsense. It was one of jt04's earlier means of arguing why Fantasyland is such a great and amazing project far exceeding what is being done by Universal.

 

[bubbles1812]

Fantasyland being based in Walt-era plans is nonsense. It was one of jt04's earlier means of arguing why Fantasyland is such a great and amazing project far exceeding what is being done by Universal.

Haha. Gotcha. I was confused and I actually considered writing that you sounded exactly like jt04...because it strongly reminded me of him. LOL. So you ended up getting I guess what my reply to him would have been had I responded to that particular bit of inanity. Apologies for missing your sarcasm. I must have blocked out reading those comments because I couldn't take their sheer stupidity Please forgive me.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Haha. Gotcha. I was confused and I actually considered writing that you sounded exactly like jt04...because it strongly reminded me of him. LOL. So you ended up getting I guess what my reply to him would have been had I responded to that particular bit of inanity. Apologies for missing your sarcasm. I must have blocked out reading those comments because I couldn't take their sheer stupidity Please forgive me.

All is well. I think those comments may predate your joining.

 

[ChrisFL]

0_O / O o O...

1) Please tell me how they are fixing the cattle problem..

They're raising the prices for ECV's?








....that was so wrong, I'm going to hell, aka Sounds Dangerous(...its closed but no one can tell the difference)

 

[steamboat wil]

I've learned two things from this thread.
1. Universal is catching up (uni took 2 days of our wdw vacation this year)
2. This jt fellow is the site instigator

 

[WDW1974]

An earlier post suggested that Disney’s previous management let WDW fall into a state of disrepair while Disney's current management has recognized this and is responding accordingly.

Disney CEO for over 20 years was Michael Eisner, who held the post from 1984 to 2005. When Eisner took the helm, there were dire concerns that the Walt Disney Company was about to be taken over. The company was performing poorly, without a major film success since the Love Bug in the 1960s. With the exception of theme parks, the corporate divisions within Disney were loosing money. Eisner is generally credited with turning the company around to the point where it became a juggernaut by the 1990s.

Concerning theme parks, Eisner viewed the Imagineers as the real talent and considered theme park executives to be "monkeys". (Eisner's word, meaning that running the theme park business was so easy even a monkey could do it.) There were strong rumors that Disney was going to layoff all the Imagineers, believing they could get the work done cheaper elsewhere. (Probably true.) Eisner "saved" the Imagineers, believing them to be the real brains behind the success of the theme parks.

Concerning Walt Disney World, Eisner viewed the Orlando facility as an underutilized asset and supported its growth, giving us WDW as it largely exists today. Disney Hollywood Studios, Animal Kingdom, DisneyQuest, Typhoon Lagoon, Blizzard Beach, and numerous resorts were added during Eisner's "golden years" at the helm. Although Eisner greatly expanded WDW, he freely admitted that he did not know the theme park business and was notoriously budget conscious, "cheap" if you will. This cheapness shows in DHS and DAK, many people complaining even today that neither theme park feels like a "full day park". Eisner's alleged "cheapness" also appears to have affected park maintenance, which generally declined beginning in the late 1990s as Eisner searched for more ways to squeeze every dollar out of the theme parks.

Eisner was replaced by his hand-picked successor, Robert Iger, in 2005. Iger is more of an enigma that Eisner. Whereas Eisner enjoyed publicity to the point where he hosted the Wonderful World of Disney from 1986 to 1996, Iger is less inclined to appear before the general public, an interesting choice given Disney very public image. Iger certainly has been less controversial than Eisner, with the acquisitions Marvel and especially Pixar demonstrating Iger's ability to complete deals that his polarizing predecessor could not accomplish. Iger may be a more "steady hand" than Eisner, whose idiosyncrasies eventually led to his downfall. Iger was recently named Chairman of the Board and his contract has been extended until 2016, with Iger planning to step down as CEO in March 2015.

Frontrunners to replace Iger are either Jay Rasulo, who ran the theme parks from 2002 to 2009, or Tom Staggs, who has run theme parks since then. Given Eisner's apparent contempt for theme park executives, it is interesting that the 2 frontrunners both come from that division. It is likely that either will continue the current trend, avoiding major capital outlays in WDW while still investing in more moderate improvements similar to FLE and Avatarland. Hopefully, money recently spent to repair or upgrade existing WDW infrastructure indicate corporate Disney will begin to more earnestly invest in WDW maintenance than during the previous decade.

With both frontrunners having a background in theme parks, its seems doubtful that Disney will lose sight of what the competition is doing up the road at Universal, although it also seems improbable that they will try to make as big of a splash as Universal did when it opened the Wizarding World of Harry Potter. It must be remembered that J.K. Rowling wanted to work with Disney but abandoned them when she insisted on maintaining creative control. Disney lost WWOHP because they were conservative in their approach to theme park development and unwilling to take the gamble. Universal was willing and the decision appears to have rescued their theme parks.

It would be nice to speculate that the 2015 transition in leadership will be accompanied by the announcement of a 5th Gate. However, given the recent investments in cruise ships, Disneyland, FLE, Avatarland, and park maintenance, it's possible that Disney might "take a breath" before committing to a major investment such as a 5th theme park at WDW.

Given Disney’s international reputation and its considerable footprint in central Florida, it does not seem that Universal is yet in a position to seriously challenge Disney as the “king” of Orlando. Universal's WWOHP opened to wide acclaim and Universal is following-up on that success with Phase 2. However, I suspect Disney executives are closely watching developments at Universal Orlando and are planning accordingly. Fundamentally, WDW's demographics are different that UO's. IMHO, UO would have to open something that "steals" away the eight-and-under crowd before WDW would be significantly impacted by Universal. I suspect the typical five-year-old still dreams of visiting "Disney" and parents respond to this. Personally, I'm looking forward to Phase 2 but don't believe more Harry Potter is the magic elixir to propel Universal to #1. I think Universal has to crack the "eight-and-under nut" to do this.

UGH!!! So much to say NO, NO and NO! to.

Iger's replacement will not be Staggs or Rasulo. Disney will be heading outside the company. This is a very good thing. The last time they did this it saved the company and brought Eisner-Wells-Katzenberg to leadership. Iger's biggest problem, beyond being a lame duck at this point, is that he largely has many of Eisner's worst traits without the good ones.

And a fifth theme park?!??! Seriously?!?!? Why would anyone ever think this is rational or smart with four stale and neglected parks with plenty of room for expansion? Let's put to the side the fact Disney will not be building one, I just don't get the psychology behind thinking that there should be one, even from a purely fan viewpoint.

As to UNI and the under-8 crowd mentality, I'd only say that not pandering to them is very smart. Let Disney do so because there's one fact that's undeniable and that's that kids grow up, and WDW has steadily dumbed its product down to the point that it appears every aspect of the parks must be acceptable to an emotionally feeble 5-year old. Kids grow and they have older siblings and people even visit WDW with no kids at all. Going for kids will kill you. Walt understood this. Today's Disney execs don't.

 

[lazyboy97o]

And a fifth theme park?!??! Seriously?!?!? Why would anyone ever think this is rational or smart with four stale and neglected parks with plenty of room for expansion? Let's put to the side the fact Disney will not be building one, I just don't get the psychology behind thinking that there should be one, even from a purely fan viewpoint.

I think you answered your own question. Walt Disney World is stagnating and people, maybe not even consciously, realize this to be the case. The biggest project is a long, drawn out "expansion" that is seeing some neat additions, but nothing truly exciting. Plenty has been botched and dumbed down at the existing parks, or worse, just closed without replacement. There is no bold new vision. But a new park represents something new, it represents something big and exciting, so long as you ignore that Disney can and has botched a new park. Holding out hope for a fifth gate is holding out hope that one may not have to finally admit that Walt Disney World has become something of a bore in far too many places and ways.

 

[twebber55]

I think you answered your own question. Walt Disney World is stagnating and people, maybe not even consciously, realize this to be the case. The biggest project is a long, drawn out "expansion" that is seeing some neat additions, but nothing truly exciting. Plenty has been botched and dumbed down at the existing parks, or worse, just closed without replacement. There is no bold new vision. But a new park represents something new, it represents something big and exciting, so long as you ignore that Disney can and has botched a new park. Holding out hope for a fifth gate is holding out hope that one may not have to finally admit that Walt Disney World has become something of a bore in far too many places and ways.

you would think that WDW would be allowed to double the spending that DL given the size of these parks... i am a DVC owner who spent our park ticket money at Universal because thats where my 9 and 13 year old kids wanted to go

 

[WDW1974]

There is no bold new vision. But a new park represents something new, it represents something big and exciting, so long as you ignore that Disney can and has botched a new park. Holding out hope for a fifth gate is holding out hope that one may not have to finally admit that Walt Disney World has become something of a bore in far too many places and ways.

I think the fact that Disney has proven over and over both its inability to keep four parks clean and fresh and vibrant as well as its track record with building new parks MIGHT just convince even those bored out of their minds with WDW (yet hooked on Pixie Dust) that this couldn't possibly be a good idea under any circumstances.

 

[lazyboy97o]

you would think that WDW would be allowed to double the spending that DL given the size of these parks... i am a DVC owner who spent our park ticket money at Universal because thats where my 9 and 13 year old kids wanted to go

That would require a management team that fights for their business units. That seems to not be the way things are at Walt Disney World. Easier to cut here and there and skirt by than risk your neck and fight for a risk. Of course, seeing as nobody as still not been fired over Pleasure Island, it seems reckless risk taking is not enough to get fired at Walt Disney World.

I think the fact that Disney has proven over and over both its unability to keep four parks clean and fresh and vibrant as well as its track record with building new parks MIGHT just convince even those bored out of their minds with WDW (yet hooked on Pixie Dust) that this couldn't possibly be a good idea under any circumstances.

Part of being addicted is not recognizing the associated issues. The fifth gate is the magical hit that will finally return the euphoria of that original high.

 

[disney fan 13]

Yes this is the busy season. And even then wait times have diminshed. I think the defensiveness of the IoA fanboys really does say it all. Harry has you in his spell.

Ok

(But seriously, do you get a kick out of trolling on a Disney forum?)

 

[ParentsOf4]

UGH!!! So much to say NO, NO and NO! to.

Iger's replacement will not be Staggs or Rasulo. Disney will be heading outside the company. This is a very good thing. The last time they did this it saved the company and brought Eisner-Wells-Katzenberg to leadership. Iger's biggest problem, beyond being a lame duck at this point, is that he largely has many of Eisner's worst traits without the good ones.

And a fifth theme park?!??! Seriously?!?!? Why would anyone ever think this is rational or smart with four stale and neglected parks with plenty of room for expansion? Let's put to the side the fact Disney will not be building one, I just don't get the psychology behind thinking that there should be one, even from a purely fan viewpoint.

As to UNI and the under-8 crowd mentality, I'd only say that not pandering to them is very smart. Let Disney do so because there's one fact that's undeniable and that's that kids grow up, and WDW has steadily dumbed its product down to the point that it appears every aspect of the parks must be acceptable to an emotionally feeble 5-year old. Kids grow and they have older siblings and people even visit WDW with no kids at all. Going for kids will kill you. Walt understood this. Today's Disney execs don't.

I respect your opinion but Staggs and Rasulo are speculated by many to be Iger's replacements, if Disney stays in house. Consider the following sources:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/07/robert-iger-disney-ceo-stepping-down-2015_n_1000472.html

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-CEO-Robert-Iger-Thomas-Staggs-248270

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201110/2691/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/mouse_house_switcheroo_bgvpCJl0qDTl1nvbGE8edM

Given that a new CEO won't take office for 3 years, I suggest that it's premature to start eliminating some of the leading candidates. However, if you have additional sources, I'd greatly appreciate reading them.

Regarding a 5th Gate, I thought I was fairly clear that I don't see this as happening in the near feature. Instead, I was hoping that Disney might use the transition to announce something, especially since it’s now 14 years (and counting) since WDW's last major expansion. Sorry if I was obtuse. We who post on this site very much care about the state of the theme parks but I submit that the overwhelming majority of WDW guests simply don't pay attention. Nor do they pay attention to whether DHS or DAK (for example) have room for expansion. The operational state of the Yeti aside, I think EE is great. However, it received about a 15 second spot in my local news when it opened. (I remember being extremely disappointed by the lack of coverage.) Opening a 5th Gate will grab national headlines. Even the casual WDW vacationer is going to notice. I am hoping we get a 5th Gate before I die.

I respectfully disagree with you on the eight-and-under crowd strategy. People's vacation habits are set at a young age. Young children strongly influence their parent's vacations habits. Disney's current marketing targets that demographic. To generalize, WDW is where young children want to go. Universal has created a large niche with the 10-to-17 crowd but, IMHO, Universal is still, at best, a 2-day excursion out of most American's week vacation to Orlando. UO simply lacks the scope and grandeur to keep a family entertained for a week. WDW has that grandeur.

IMHO, WWOHP has stolen business from WDW. However, given WDW's attendance over the last 10 years, I politely suggest that a poor economy has taken a bigger bite out of WDW attendance than WWOHP. For example, WDW was much more severely impacted by the post 9/11 economy than it was by the opening of WWOHP. Don’t get me wrong, I think WWOHP is the best "land" in all Orlando. It certainly has turned around UO. However, given that this thread is titled, NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney", it does not appear to me that UO has seriously damaged WDW's long-term revenue stream. Fundamentally, I don't believe UO ever will until it figures out a way to appeal more strongly to the small child crowd.

Please understand that I really enjoy UO and think it has 3 of the best 5 attractions in Orlando (FJ, Spiderman, Mummy). I just don't think it presents a significant risk to WDW's dominance at this time.

 

[jt04]

0_O / O o O...

1) Please tell me how they are fixing the cattle problem...Dumbo is the only one I will give you where Disney has actually maybe fixed the problem. And even that remains to be seen depending on how crowded they let the tent get. Other than that, with soarin', HM, virtually every popular ride, it's stayed the same. Just because interactive queues provide something to do doesn't mean the cattle problem has gone away

2) Um, I don't know if you missed the giant area in universal that has been cleared out but the buzz dozers are there and the cranes, if not there already will come. Not that you'd know, since you haven't been there not will you any time in the near future. Remember when I told you about #4? Yeah that was a classic number 4 from you.

3) I don't like Starbucks or really coffee at all

1) You obviously are not paying close attention to NextGen news and what it is intended to do.

2) I will just say about Potter 2.0 what the cynics here say about AvatarLand. I will believe it when I see it.

3) OK, a dole whip then?

 

[jt04]

This is what I get for looking at threads before signing in.



Yet again, here you are blathering on about nonsense. I take it you think because there aren't cranes on sight that Universal hasn't started on the Potter expansion. Which, of course would be so amazingly wrong. Like levels of wrong you can only reach.

Jaws closed 5 months ago. They've had to completely reclaim the land from the lagoon and make it suitable for new vertical construction in that time, as well as get government clearance for such construction.

And apparently you think 2 and a half years is long or something for an expansion of this size. Are you dumb or purposefully obtuse? Because honestly I'm not sure any more.

Fantasyland Expansion, built on land already ready for construction that's been sitting dormant for years, will take FIVE years to complete form date of announcement. Five years. 2009-2014. And it includes no new, groundbreaking E tickets and it's main attraction is a clone of one already operating, therefore decreasing lead time and the unknown variables.

Wizarding World of Harry Potter will include 2 E-tickets, one of which will connect it's two parks, as well as one that has been described by people here as making "Forbidden Journey look like It's a Small World", will be built on land that was a fully functioning E ticket and a land not 1/2 a year ago. And it will take 2 and 1/2 - 3 years. And you're telling me that's a long time.

Not to mention this is far from the only project Universal has in the pipeline. There will be things opening at Universal before Potter opens in late 2014.

Universal better get busy because I am hearing they no longer have the 'premiere' theme park attraction in the world as many have claimed. LMAO!

Nope, that honor now belongs to Radiator Springs Racers brought to you by the team of Iger & Lasseter and sponsored by Pixar's classic franchise Cars!

Move over Mr Potter or get run over by a mouse.

 

[marni1971]

NextGen - biggest waste since.... the last biggest waste. A billion dollar investment that is neither needed or warranted. DCA shows what can be done with this money properly.

Fantasyland expansion - too little, 22 years too late. Mismanaged from start to finish.

Potter 2.0 has already started. When FOTLK moves you can say the same for Avland.

And I still don't like dole whips.

Ohh... and you do know that Iger wanted to cut even more from both Cars Land and RSR? Lassater made him an offer he couldn't refuse and it wasn't a good one.

And please.... RSR is stunning. Yep. Shame we don't see that caliber in Orlando anymore. Well, not in WDW anyway.

 

[jt04]

NextGen - biggest waste since.... the last biggest waste. A billion dollar investment that is neither needed or warranted. DCA shows what can be done with this money properly.

Fantasyland expansion - too little, 22 years too late. Mismanaged from start to finish.

Potter 2.0 has already started. When FOTLK moves you can say the same for Avland.

And I still don't like dole whips.

Ohh... and you do know that Iger wanted to cut even more from both Cars Land and RSR? Lassater made him an offer he couldn't refuse and it wasn't a good one.

And please.... RSR is stunning. Yep. Shame we don't see that caliber in Orlando anymore. Well, not in WDW anyway.

RSR is what we all know WDI can do given the resources. And it will be proof positive that doing so is EXTREMELY profitable. Success has a way a creating more success. And I think that is what you will see including at WDW.

And it is never to late to fix something. FL was cursed for nearly half a century when 20K was green-lighted. They had to get that investment back. Now the remedy is here and judging by the buzz many are delighted.

I'm guessing we have only seen the first chapter of the "book" Lasseter is writing.

 

[misterID]

Can we start speculating on what's replacing Kidzone now? Not that JT's trolling isn't entertaning... like someone throwing a dart in your eye.

Could it be Madagascar Land or Sci Fi City from Singapore? The Transformers ride would go pretty well there. Or is this Lord Of The Rings?

 

[jt04]

Can we start speculating on what's replacing Kidzone now? Not that JT's trolling isn't entertaning... like someone throwing a dart in your eye.

Could it be Madagascar Land or Sci Fi City from Singapore? The Transformers ride would go pretty well there. Or is this Lord Of The Rings?

I hope it is something relatively basic as there just is not enough room in that area to do a major franchise any justice. Certainly not LotR. My guess is Transformers if they have decided to keep MSHI.

 

[culturenthrills]

Indeed, I've only ever walked on FJ first thing in the morning, or within a half hour of the park closing if the park wasn't busy. The park dynamics at Universal are also quite different than the Disney parks, so the lines also react quite differently. It is not apples to apples, nowhere close.

I have been a Universal passholder for 7 years and I am still amazed how much HP has changed IOA. That park is crazy busy all the time now. Even during the slow times of the year it is busy. I have never seen an addition do something like that to a park. It isn't just about the ride, it is the whole experience. Something that Disney seems to have gotten right with Carsland but there is nothing comparable here in Florida. I have never seen money spent the way it is in Potterland. Just stand by the cash registers at the gift shop at the exit of FJ and your jaw will drop to the floor. This isn't just about attendance this is about spending and per guest spending has gone way up since the debut of HP at Universal.

 

[culturenthrills]

The only thing I'm going to say at this point is that it will be another investment of significant proportions. Potter phase 2 is a good two and a half years away but after it opens Kidzone should be the next big thing.

Yeah, that area needs to be updated. E.T. can stay but I don't think most kids know who "Fievel" is. They need to update. I think a Spongebob Squarepants dark ride or Madgascar ride(like Universal Japan) would be a good addition.