Yes. and that is but one small area that feeds WDW ... there are a few dozen of them ... and then add the vacation homes etc and you realize that most guests do NOT stay at WDW owned and operated lodging.
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Numbers, Cars and Quality ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Yes. and that is but one small area that feeds WDW ... there are a few dozen of them ... and then add the vacation homes etc and you realize that most guests do NOT stay at WDW owned and operated lodging.
DznyRktekt
Well-Known Member
Amazing how so much of the surrounding area has declined and had trouble surviving since Magical Express was introduced. Disney has in a way created an element of poverty on the borders of its property by putting blinders on its guests in the shiny buses that travel from MCO to WDW and back. It is like a parent playing a video in the minivan. The kids notice nothing happening outside.
No idea.
The whole D.C. deal was odd to me. First, the timing ... it was announced like in 2009 (maybe '08) when the economy was in what appeared (and still could be) a death spiral. Second, it wasn't announced as having any DVC component at all (people assumed it, but Disney didn't say it). Third, it was located in an area that already was a bit troubled from what I have read.
I knew when nothing happened within 18 months that it was dead. But it just seemed strange.
Funmeister
Well-Known Member
On the flip side Disney has made an attempt to funnel guests off-property into the resort through WDW Good Neighbor Hotels. Of course this was a program to go head to head with Destination Universal and the Orlando Flex Ticket started years ago. It was so popular that it was eventually expanded to California but works a little different out there. The problem is a half day park with wooden cutouts is a half day park with wooden cutouts no matter where you stay. Great conversation tonight everyone...headed to bed...Illuminations finale was heard hours ago and now past my bedtime.
So true.
Drive around areas in Kissimmee (where I often stayed as a child) and you see abject depression ... many former coveted chain hotel/motels have been boarded up ... others have been taken over as apartments to basically house 2-4-6 CMs in tiny hotel rooms because it's either that or they live in cars or are homeless (yes, that is part of the MAGIC of WDW!) ... You'll even see chain restaurants gone ... empty storefronts that once catered to tourists.
Very depressing.
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
Hopefully they didn't go back to the Studios well (any details, hints of what that proposal was?)
The idea of OLC building independent, original theme parks, in-country or out, is intriguing. But one also wonders why they'd want to stray from the path that has and continues to bring them so much success (cooperation with Dis). Especially when for the past decade, to my chagrin, OLC has been following TWDC down the Franchise/Princess/Pixar-only path, toonifying and kiddyfing their parks, which is why I'm not crazy about the idea of Carsland replacing several toon-free attractions. And yet, it appears to be successful (Monsters & Toy Story being hit rides).
With TDS attendance soaring I had hoped the next big TDR expansion would be a land-sized area in that park, rather than an oddly-placed Carsland in TDL. Once the TDS is built-out a 3rd Gate on the resort site would require additional land acquisition or fill into the Bay.
Just trying to understand NextGen as you do.
If most guests are already staying off property, and if on-property occupancy is currently low and overpriced, how does Disney truly think NextGen/FP+ is going to increase on-site occupancy (which is where I assume much of the "profit" of NextGen will be realized)?
Many WDW guests are first-timers or infrequent returnees. How is Disney going to communicate to them long before they make travel plans what NextGen is and why its worth the added cost to stay on-property? (Many WDW guests don't understand the current, free FP system until they arrive. How will they know what FP+ is and its value to them months in advance?)
If Disney fails to sell NextGen's value before the guest arrives, that guest will likely be staying off-site, and hence getting punished with longer lines at the parks and a less-than-premium experience.
That guest could possibly learn to avoid the same mistake and book on-site for their next trip. But I imagine the more likely scenario is that the guest will be disgruntled and scale back their current in-park spending (happy guests spend more than unhappy guests) and maybe not even return at all.
I'm sure there are other ways Disney will profit from NextGen besides being another on-site hotel perk like EMH. But I don't understand how they will communicate that to the Walmart and international tour group crowds.
HenryMystic
Well-Known Member
Sitting in the WL lobby would put me in an A+ mood! In fact, it did last month. Then, I wanted to go to Pleasure Island, and suddenly sank into an F mood.
DznyRktekt
Well-Known Member
Indeed. My family would often stay at the now demolished Wynfield Inn when I was a child. It was cheap, safe and clean back then. Seems that many big names have left beautiful properties that are now taken over by no name owners. The former Sheraton attached to the Florida Mall, is now called the Florida Hotel, and the Orlando Vista Hotel on Vineland Road that used to be a Double Tree are two that come to mind.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Kids say the darndest things, don't they?
But when kids pick up on it instinctively and without bias, as kids are able to do so purely, then you know it's for real.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
The complete lack of Disneyland-style buffeteria restaurants at WDW parks has always baffled me.
Buffeterias are such a nice option to have a place that slots inbetween fast food and expensive/longer waitress-service. Disneyland/DCA has many of them; Plaza Inn, French Market, Riverbelle Terrace, Paradise Garden Grill, and now Flo's V8 Cafe.If they've already cut Flo's V8 Cafe from the DHS Cars Land project, then there's already huge holes in the project and overall environment. What else will be cut from Cars Land East?!? The mind boggles, and it's a scary thought.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I lived that era, both online from the alt.disney.disneyland usenet group to fairly regular visits to the decaying park that was Disneyland back then. There were many of us online that were commenting about it, just as there are many caring and concerned folks here doing the same, but Al Lutz was really the ringleader and key figure that got the online commentary crossing over to the traditional media in the late 1990's. What WDW needs is an Al Lutz.
sweetpee_1993
Well-Known Member
@KevinYee & @WDW1974 (because I'm not going to take up a whole screen quoting both the posts that mentioned this)...lets rewind to the bit about deaths and the TDO wakeup call. Kevin, I totally get what you said and, no, it isn't something anyone wants to come right out & say. But it needs to be said. It begs to be said. In all its morbid, unMagical glory people need to remember that neglect in the DL's sordid past DID result in the unthinkable for guests. Spirit, I think herein lies the big difference in the impact of the deaths at WDW that you mentioned: with the exception of the little boy on the bicycle the deaths at WDW were CMs not guests. It's all about guest perception of safety. As long as its CMs (monorail, Primeval Hurl) then there's still the disconnect for the guest brain where Little Johnny's mommy can point out that those were CMs, Disney won't allow it to be their guests. The little boy on the bike will be separated in the brain as an unfortunate accident just as the deaths on M:S are attributed to undiagnosed medical problems or guests who didn't consider the safety warnings posted. The guest still perceives a clear line of dilliniation and believes Disney will not allow anything to happen to a guest that is preventable. I have brought this very thing up in the past back when my pixie dust blinders were fairly newly removed. It was a discussion of serious show issues. I asked (may have been privately) a highly regarded soul on this site if the conditions we see are that bad would it be safe to assume what we don't see is as bad and what this means as far as the ride components. Then I connected the dots between ride component conditions and guest safety. The incidents at DL were mentioned in response. I was shocked. I no longer blindly assume Disney would never allow anything bad to happen to a guest because they did before...and...Kevin, I will say it...I seriously believe history can and/or will repeat itself. I don't go around living in fear or refusing to let my boys ride rides (not that we even spend anywhere near the time at WDW that we used to). I don't have a blind faith, either. I don't trust TDO. With anything. Their priorities are quite clear and $$ is king. That's what they show us by their actions consistantly. I don't think it'd ever be intentional because financially that'd be suicide. It'd be indirect, a result of one of their many cost-saving cuts in an indirect but unmistakeable way. Yes, I do believe this would be one of very few things that would/could draw the ire of Burbank on a level that would make huge, gargantuan changes in a veeeery short period of time. Sad to say but let's be honest even if it isn't pretty.
Oh I know I'll be flamed to high heaven & back for all this but it is what it is. Those who can't wrap their brain around such wanting a reason to write off such ideas can use this as their primary excuse: I've always been extremely intuitive about a lot of things. My whole life there's been a long chain of things I felt a certain way about for no logical reason that turned out proving what I felt was spot-on. I've had a feeling, sometimes strong, about the possibility of guest safety at WDW coming into the cause/effect of a huge turn around for quite some time. Yep, call me a fruit loop. I'm not psychic. Maybe it's just fear spawning from my truly complete-on-all-levels lack of confidence in TDO's willingness to keep their house properly. Maybe it's just my worst nightmares of long ago resurfacing and manifesting. But I have a feeling this will come into play. Nobody wants to hear it because, like Kevin mentioned, its the ugliest of places nobody wants to even dare visit. But let's get real. If what you see is oftentimes deplorable then it's safe to say that what you don't see is, too. If everything is this rough how can you think anything is being treated any differently?
Oh I know I'll be flamed to high heaven & back for all this but it is what it is. Those who can't wrap their brain around such wanting a reason to write off such ideas can use this as their primary excuse: I've always been extremely intuitive about a lot of things. My whole life there's been a long chain of things I felt a certain way about for no logical reason that turned out proving what I felt was spot-on. I've had a feeling, sometimes strong, about the possibility of guest safety at WDW coming into the cause/effect of a huge turn around for quite some time. Yep, call me a fruit loop. I'm not psychic. Maybe it's just fear spawning from my truly complete-on-all-levels lack of confidence in TDO's willingness to keep their house properly. Maybe it's just my worst nightmares of long ago resurfacing and manifesting. But I have a feeling this will come into play. Nobody wants to hear it because, like Kevin mentioned, its the ugliest of places nobody wants to even dare visit. But let's get real. If what you see is oftentimes deplorable then it's safe to say that what you don't see is, too. If everything is this rough how can you think anything is being treated any differently?
SirLink
Well-Known Member
Okay gotcha - so the top are thinking 'Let them Eat Mickey Bars' whilst the middle managers are generally worried about the mob of guests(day and local) with torches and pitchforks.
Longhairbear
Well-Known Member
As I have mentioned before in other posts, or in reply to a post, that I am a DVC member. I joined in 2003, and "broke even" with my initial purchase in 4 years. Now, I only pay an annual maintenance fee that is less than similar accommodations would cost me, especially as room rates rise. Someone mentioned that DVC members view a membership as a value decision, and that was exactly true for us. Add in the free ride from the airport, and there is more value.
Ordering groceries for the week from We Go Shop, or Garden Grocer and cooking at least 2 meals per day saves me a ton of money, and keeps me on diet. More value. We get bottles of vodka, Jack Daniels, and mixers and set up our own bar in the villa.
Members get discounts on buying an AP, now $300.00 off, and also get DVC discounts too. So why haven't I been to WDW in a few years now?
Initially it was to save money on airfare, which got expensive, so we took a year off. The next year we wanted to save money on airfare, and realized nothing new (meaning a new DVC to stay at) was happening. Then we realized that nothing new except new DVC resorts was the main reason for going to WDW. We have no plans to go to WDW until FLE is finished. That, and staying at one of the DVC resorts we've never been is the only draw. That, and the expansion at Universal. We haven't been to see Universal in many years, and have been watching the upgrades there.
To wrap this all up, Disney is not making the money off of us as it used to since we bought into DVC almost 10 years ago. We aren't staying at the deluxe resorts we used to stay at. We rarely eat in the parks, and we certainly don't buy into the Disney Dining Plan. We brew our own coffee (sorry Nescrappe ). We don't buy cocktails by the pool, or at the resort bars at night. We only window shop at DTD, you can only buy the same things over and over for so long.
We've been using our membership at DLR, and DCL. We'll be back to Orlando, and probably spend more time off property than on. Oh, and the quality issues with WDW? Seeing videos on You Tube, and reading about the broken attractions is also keeping us away from WDW, and the BLT villas, we've been reading about the shoddy workmanship there.
Ordering groceries for the week from We Go Shop, or Garden Grocer and cooking at least 2 meals per day saves me a ton of money, and keeps me on diet. More value. We get bottles of vodka, Jack Daniels, and mixers and set up our own bar in the villa.
Members get discounts on buying an AP, now $300.00 off, and also get DVC discounts too. So why haven't I been to WDW in a few years now?
Initially it was to save money on airfare, which got expensive, so we took a year off. The next year we wanted to save money on airfare, and realized nothing new (meaning a new DVC to stay at) was happening. Then we realized that nothing new except new DVC resorts was the main reason for going to WDW. We have no plans to go to WDW until FLE is finished. That, and staying at one of the DVC resorts we've never been is the only draw. That, and the expansion at Universal. We haven't been to see Universal in many years, and have been watching the upgrades there.
To wrap this all up, Disney is not making the money off of us as it used to since we bought into DVC almost 10 years ago. We aren't staying at the deluxe resorts we used to stay at. We rarely eat in the parks, and we certainly don't buy into the Disney Dining Plan. We brew our own coffee (sorry Nescrappe ). We don't buy cocktails by the pool, or at the resort bars at night. We only window shop at DTD, you can only buy the same things over and over for so long.
We've been using our membership at DLR, and DCL. We'll be back to Orlando, and probably spend more time off property than on. Oh, and the quality issues with WDW? Seeing videos on You Tube, and reading about the broken attractions is also keeping us away from WDW, and the BLT villas, we've been reading about the shoddy workmanship there.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Hold on . . . WHAT??? What would they even do here? I thought they were just installing safety rails outside. Would they really eliminate the second level altogether?
Closer the truth.
HMF
Well-Known Member
I can't say I blame him.
KevinYee
Well-Known Member
Heads in beds. This is accurate and entirely the motivation behind the aiming of FP+ at the hotel crowd. Here what we have is one of the few times Universal out-thought Disney. They tried the free reservations for a while, then moved to today's system, where you can buy it OR you can stay at their hotels and get it for free. You can guess the obvious: their hotels are way more full than before.
Disney, with 30,000 hotel rooms, would obviously like them full all the time. They can't mimic Uni's system entirely - that would be too many front of the line passes - but if you were to invent a system that incentivizes hotel stays for that many hotel rooms, it would look EXACTLY like what they're going to do for FP+/MMP. If and only if you are staying at a Disney resort, you get four advance reservations. No one else does. And there are, I'm guessing, not going to be day-of reservations (the old FP) once the system is fully in place. That's an incentive to stay there, right?
You can almost hear their panicked realization late in the game that there are locals and regulars who don't stay at Disney (the locals especially don't want/need to). "Quick! What can we do to make this group happy that loves the parks and sees them all the time but can't ride rides any more?!" Answer: Limited Time Magic! "On the year when we roll out FP+, we'll throw something new into the parks each week! It won't do much for the tourist, but those locals getting shafted will have something to go take pictures of every week!!"
Bread and circuses indeed!
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
... and is located maybe a few hundred yards from a giant sewage treatment plant. The complaints would have been EPIC if the wind was blowing the wrong way! The smell just driving by on the highway is almost unbearable.