Numbers, Cars and Quality ...

the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
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Figments Friend

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
Funmeister said:
The change really took affect in 1995. All Cast Members were brought into mandatory "change" meeting/seminars at the AMC movie theaters at Pleasure Island and the convention center at the Contemporary. Disney outsourced a PR firm to come in and give us a long drawn out story about Pete the parakeet and Vinny the vulture. Basically the story suggested that if Pete and Vinny traded places from the lush jungle to the barren desert (and vice versa), they would die because they could not change and adapt to their new environments. The story literally took 15 to 20 minutes and was painfully drawn out. At the end, the representative said "The lesson of this story is that if you do not change you will die. Ladies and gentlemen Walt Disney is dead. "Change" is the only way to survive in this marketplace and if you do not like it there is the door. No questions will be answered at this time. Have a great day!" At that point everyone in the auditorium was shocked and very confused and were ushered out for the next group to come in for thier presentation.

It felt like we were all punched in the stomach. The company later realized this was probably not the best way they could have communicated this message. To this day there are some execs and "lifers" who deny that those meetings actually even happend. Well, they did! Since that day I have seen a slow declining trend that has gained momentum in recent years.
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Wow...just wow. Thank you for sharing this experience here.
Can you believe this, folks?
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
ryguy said:
One could argue that DVC plays a role with TDO decision making. Basically you have a large group of visitors who you know will be coming every year and you already have there money. I know since the inception of DVC the parks attendance has been more spread out and attendance up. There is no real slow season anymore like the old days. I think DCV plays a factor in that. Truthfully DVC members should be the most upset; they have laid out a huge chunk of change and are not getting much in return.
Another factor may be annual pass membership, Cali has a lot more annual passholders than WDW. Anaheim has to keep changing and adding to appease the passholder's. Hence holiday overlays to major attractions and a revamped DCA.
I book many WDW vacations and I would say half my clients don't even know about the new Fantasyland. And when I mention it to them the response isn't overwhelming more like a bonus. Whereas in Cali the locals are a buzz about Carsland, you can see/hear there excitement about the addition.
I think many families who visit WDW are hitting milestones. For example: There kids are at the "perfect age 4-7" or they are returning cuz their kids are little older and can experience more attractions. For the average Suburban American family I think going to Disney has become a rite of passage, something that as a parent you need/expected to do at least once or twice with the kids. If I know that, TDO knows that, they also know that fanboi's and DVC members are suckers and are going to visit either way. So they cater to the casual traveler. No different than beer companies marketing to the casual/recreational drinker.

One thing I do know to be true is that WWOHP changed the game. The detail in Carsland as well as the new Fantasyland is a direct result of the gauntlet Universal laid down with Potter. You can't just roll out a half hearted attempt and think people will buy it. Carsland proved Disney is capable of doing something great once again. MGM, AK, previous DCA are also examples of them producing pure garbage too. I think Avatar land will be a good test to see just how committed Disney is on creating quality rather than crap. My hope is that Uni will keep up and push the envelope because that's the only way Disney will continue to push there own envelope. Sad but true I am afraid.
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While DVC provides a niche market for WDW it is hardly a blip on park attendance. There are roughly 3,000 DVC rooms at WDW which makes up about 10% of the 30,000 total rooms on property. That doesn't count the tens of thousands of off property rooms or locals on day trips. A conservative estimate would be DVCers make up less than 5% of the daily attendance numbers. In reality that number is probably much smaller during peak times. It's crazy to think that TDO would let the parks suffer and not worry about attracting new guests because they know that 5% of their guests bought DVC and are locked in to coming back. Selling DVC points is VERY profitable. This is where the true benefit comes in financially. Granted, this is a short term gain but that seems to be the focus these days.

I think a lot of DVC owners are less than thrilled with the state of the parks. They are using points on DCL and other off WDW properties or maybe through RCI and even when staying in Orlando leaving to hit Uni or Seaworld. That is probably why Disney offered DVC members the huge discount on the premium AP this year. DVC owners are not stuck with free dining as the primary discount at WDW so in a lot of ways they have more flexibility to spend time off property.
 
ryguy

ryguy

Well-Known Member
" Selling DVC points is VERY profitable. This is where the true benefit comes in financially."

Are you talking about selling points for the year or selling points outright in order to get out of DVC?

I would think that selling your points for they year would simply cover your maintenance fees for the year. But if people can sell their points for more kudos to them. Every time I ran the numbers for the amount of points I wanted the yearly fee's were around $1500. Which I can get a pretty nice room/house for that price for a week without dropping 20 large to get the points I needed. So the math never really worked for me. That's cool that Disney dropped the price for Annual passes for DVC members. DVC members deserve all the perks they can get for the money they shell out to be a member.
 
D

djlaosc

Well-Known Member
ryguy said:
" Selling DVC points is VERY profitable. This is where the true benefit comes in financially."

Are you talking about selling points for the year or selling points outright in order to get out of DVC?

I would think that selling your points for they year would simply cover your maintenance fees for the year. But if people can sell their points for more kudos to them. Every time I ran the numbers for the amount of points I wanted the yearly fee's were around $1500. Which I can get a pretty nice room/house for that price for a week without dropping 20 large to get the points I needed. So the math never really worked for me. That's cool that Disney dropped the price for Annual passes for DVC members. DVC members deserve all the perks they can get for the money they shell out to be a member.
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I think that they may be talking about Disney selling DVC (points) to new customers
 
KevinYee

KevinYee

Well-Known Member
asianway said:
I'm stunned... @KevinYee any insight on this one?
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I was at Disneyland in 1994 but spent part of 1995 in Germany (doing other things) and didn't make it back until 1996. So it *could* be that this happened in Anaheim too. But I never heard about it, so I'm guessing that it was an Orlando-only thing. I have not spoken with anyone in Orlando who volunteered this experience, but I can ask around!
 
KevinYee

KevinYee

Well-Known Member
I will add that the slide at Disneyland *definitely* happened around 1994 and 1995, when the Empowerment Evolution and Total Quality Management started to permeate the culture. I can't speak to whether the slide was around in WDW at the time. By the time I was East-coast based, in 2002, the slide was there, but it hadn't gained as much momentum as it would later in the 2000s. And the parks certainly didn't have nets everywhere.

At Disneyland, the Internet fans were a force to be sure, but the *deaths* occurring from shoddy maintenance also played a huge role. I hate to say it, but WDW may coast along until there are deaths. I hate to say this next sentence even more, but I fear that may happen sooner rather than later. There are now nets in two places. Will the next thing to fall land on someone?
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
SirLink said:
I thought they were running around like it was the end of the world in O-town, so I presume the only panicky party is back in Burbank?
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Only some are running around that way ... generally the middle level folks who realize what an operational disaster (I can't speak enough of this!) that FP+ will be. They also understand the big picture of the resort much more than the out of touch top folks ... you know the ones who had to be forced into things like updating Star Tours and adding capacity to Fantasyland.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
RSoxNo1 said:
I think Disney looks at Fastpass+ in the same way they look at Magical Express. It's a way to trap people on property. There has been speculation that Fastpass+ could eliminate Free Dining (good) and be the main perk for staying on property (bad). It's almost as if they think the reason why people are going to Universal because of Express Pass and not because of the attractions themselves.
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They look at FP+ as a new revenue stream, period. That's what the endgame of NEXT GEN is. Datamining to get guests to spend more. It has very little to do with the guest experience at all.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
RSoxNo1 said:
How real is that fear for them at this point? Is that only in Florida that they fear any overhead effects?
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No clue at all. The lawyers always seem worst in FL, which with CA in the mix really is saying something (there are rumors that Alice in Wonderland may lose its second level due to the outdoor section that has operated without one injury or death since the 1950s).
 
ParentsOf4

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
I'd also say that WDW expanded tremendously from say 1988 to 1995 and the quality stayed high across the board. But then the business modeling changed. And many things were outsourced. Others were cut. I'm sure that most of the most vocal critics here will likely say all was well in the 90s, that it was only post Y2K that the resort began its decline, but my response would be simply 'you weren't paying close enough attention before that.''
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Bill Sullivan and Bob Mathieson (WDW's Old Guard) were forced to "retire" on the same day in June 1994. Both men believed in the old WDW where show came before anything else. It's as good of a day as any to pick as the start of the decline.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Kuhio said:
Well, you do know that I'm a swinger... um, that I enjoy swinging attractions (even ones that don't come with barf bags!)...
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you now need one more like to equal your post count ... not that likes are that important ... ask that hillbilly that's married to the woman of my dreams ... but if you had told me back in 2008 when I joined this site and was promptly hated loudly, frequently and in no uncertain terms by roughly 80% of the people I interracted with that I'd be one of the most 'liked' posters here, I would have suggested that you were totally insane.
 

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