lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
No, you are still confusing terms in order to push more nonsense for the sake of being nonsensical.
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Norway Pavilion Frozen construction - Frozen Ever After ride
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Phil12
Well-Known Member
For sure, it was hugely popular because it was unique to the extreme. I remember the touch screen TV's as well. WorldKey Information:
Phil12
Well-Known Member
You're creating your own definitions to suit your ideas. However, I've grown accustom to such behavior from you.
Phil12
Well-Known Member
It lost its popularity. Epcot had to change. WOM and Horizons especially had very low attendance numbers because the rides bored people. Folks got tired of seeing the commercials disguised as "attractions" for GM and GE.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Not really. They remained quite popular and well attended throughout even their later years (I stood in line for them even during the mid 90's just prior to their closure). They were people eaters and fast loaders, which often prevented insane line backups like you see for a low capacity ride like Soarin or an even worse meet n greet (though they still impressively got lines during busy seasons). Having several of these efficient/high capacity rides in the general area helped disperse crowds even more.
This was similar with Haunted Mansion and Pirates before Fastpass was implemented, ruining their efficiency, they too were commonly walk-on attractions outside of busy season. Again not because they were unpopular or boring, but due to their super high capacity and efficient loading. This is no longer the case however.
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Proof?
NearTheEars
Well-Known Member
Though I don't particularly agree with Mr. Phil (and question why he's even here considering he earlier posted that "most of WDW is junk") but I thought it was a no-no around these parts to demand proof.
ABQ
Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I suppose if you want to believe that, fine. I have to ask though, where were they hiding all the people that had been there the first 5 years or so. Did they disappeared? Aliens? Maybe fell into one of those famous sink holes. Sorry, if EPCOT had been a winner everything we saw back then would still be there. We, as individuals, cannot gauge these things on what we personally like or dislike. The proof is in the numbers and the feedback. I liked everything with the exception of Horizons (I even like Horizons in the beginning, but, to me it didn't have a lot of reason to keep going back time after time) and Energy, but, I am not the whole of the public. I am not one of the families that decided that even if EPCOT were lined with gold, there was hardly anything that their kids liked from the age of birth to late teens. It was a great idea if we lived in a totally intellectual world, but, we don't and the park could not be supported by "intellectuals" alone. Nice idea... wrong time after it's initial startup wore thin. Then without corporate support, nothing to show that the money they were spending on sponsorship had a sufficient return to justify it, it started it's decline.
I say decline, but, that is just the opinion of some. Others see it otherwise and still enjoy Epcot immensely even without the teaching/futuristic approach. It all depends on which side of the fence one is viewing it from. As much as I liked the original, they only thing that saddens me now is the deplorable state of the Imagination Pavilion. Someone showed go to jail for that deplorable mess.
G00fyDad
Well-Known Member
I want proof of that rule.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The numbers and feedback say you are wrong. The park had to be "fixed" to fit the lie that the park sank Walt Disney Productions and caused the turmoil of 1984.
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Perhaps they got turned off with the first wave of cheap "enhancements" from 93-99? Of course, assuming you believe that numbers were so drastically down.
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boufa
Well-Known Member
And that is my point. Walt's idea of EPCOT was nothing like even the one that opened. You cannot decide when you want to start recording history. History is that Walt envisioned the second park to be EPCOT and that would have been a city of tomorrow. When he died that vision for EPCOT changed... and it has not stopped changing. You can't simply state that the first change doesn't matter.
I am not using the first change or any other single change as a defense or attack on the Frozen placement. I am saying that there have been incremental changes to the philosophy of EPCOT since the very beginning. Picking the EPCOT you liked and then complaining about the changes is not a valid argument. EPCOT isn't epcot and has never been, and never will be. I hope that they do evolve EPCOT into being more of a World Showcase of adventures, and a showcase of humanity and technology (future world). Right now WS has turned into stereotype showcase, Martin Short pouring Maple syrup on everything is becoming offensive in the modern world. Frozen may be just a small step into moving away from such rigid presentations of national stereotypes. Norway is no more what is represented in Frozen than it is with the old way it was represented. The difference is that everyone knows Frozen is fantasy, but people who don't know buy into the sterotyped watered down version of Norway culture as real and true.
boufa
Well-Known Member
Yes, but as I grow older, I hear myself saying things about the old days, just like my parents and my grand parents used to do. I find that I comment on how bad things have gotten, and kids now a days. The reality is that statistics don't prove those thoughts. Last year for example was one of the lowest violent crime years since records started to be kept in the 50's. Teen pregnancy is also at one of its lowest times ever. Yet we still write these things off as not being true. Those 6 year olds will repeat the cycle. We may think the end of the world, or the end of Disney or the end of the golden age, or whatever, but in 30 years, they will have similar thoughts. You may have your opinion, and I won't try to change it, just mention the world as I see it.
Life will never be as good as memories. It is the beauty of our brains. It is what keeps us going, and helps protect us of realities that would make it difficult to get through our days sometimes.
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
That's all cool and everything, but WDW's second gate never was intended or claim to be Walt's EPCOT. WDW's Second gate was EPCOT Center. As in the center of EPCOT. The entire FL project is EPCOT and does include commercial, residential, and recreational. Seems fed on Walt's original vision for EPCOT. Only smaller in scope as of yet.
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
I'd used the terms like "nostalgic" & "romanticized" versus "stereotyped". And that's exactly what it should be.
Modernism, Internationalism, Migration and Globalization over the last 60 years have made the world vastly more homogenized place, pushing the distinct regional architecture and culture that has defined humanity since its beginning towards extinction. That's why newer buildings/towns/cities, whether they are in China, Brazil, Germany, South Africa or America, generally look blandly similar, replete with townhouses, Hondas, McDonalds, Nike and Levis.
Why would you pay to see present-day global culture when it is right outside your door. Most famous tourist destinations like Venice or the Serengeti are less and less "real" and more aimed at delivering that ideal in art, architecture, nature, culture and history that people come searching for. In an odd way, these real places are becoming theme-park-like.
That makes World Showcase a cousin of Main Street in its exercise of nostalgia and romanticism, tended by smiling exchange students from around the world. It is an optimistic view of a world we hoped once existed (and may still be out there).
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lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
They even built a derivative of the Garden City down in Celebration.
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