Norway Pavilion Frozen construction - Frozen Ever After ride

[boufa]

I think the deliberate dumbing down to a 6 year old's level of the parks in the last 10 years has a lot to do with your failure to see how this is a blatant move to get a "Frozen" presence into a park that was meant to enlighten and expand thinking. It will do nothing but make a boatload of money and does not further the intent of EPCOT center. Just one more brick in the wall. Keep it in the MK, that is a little girl's park already and can't be saved.

EPCOT Center is Dead. There I said it. Time to accept it. If your favorite restaurant changes its menu, and you don't like it, time to find a new favorite.

It died when Walt died, and has been losing a little more each day. I challenge you to find anyone at Disney who still clings to the ancient concept of EPCOT Center. There is no internal argument, there is no one quiting over the violation of Walt's Dream. They are going to slowly change the whole thing. "Your" Epcot is gone, and clearly you don't like the magic kingdom either, so it may be time for you to find a new restaurant. The old menu isn't coming back.

It is possible to outgrow Disney. It is possible that the magic is gone, for some people. Maybe part of Disney was seeing through our eyes as children, then experiencing it through the eyes of our children. Then over the years, the kids are no longer going with us, and the IP that we clung to is slipping aside for newer IPs that we are not as personally attached to... but guess what...look behind you, that crowd of people, bigger than it has ever been at any time in history, they are seeing the parks the way you used to. Through their young eyes, and through the eyes of their young. And in 30 years they will be complaining on these forums that their beloved Frozen Ride is being ripped out of WS to be replaced by some boring water ride about some country in northern europe.

 

[JoeCamel]

Saved from being a park for children only. It has been headed that way for years as no parent can resist their precious one when they say" Can I have that". Rather than a park the whole family can enjoy it has been turned into a park for kids only. A couple of the classic rides are left but for the most part the focus has been pandering to kids.

 

[JoeCamel]

Saved from what??

EPCOT Center is Dead. There I said it. Time to accept it. If your favorite restaurant changes its menu, and you don't like it, time to find a new favorite.

It died when Walt died, and has been losing a little more each day. I challenge you to find anyone at Disney who still clings to the ancient concept of EPCOT Center. There is no internal argument, there is no one quiting over the violation of Walt's Dream. They are going to slowly change the whole thing. "Your" Epcot is gone, and clearly you don't like the magic kingdom either, so it may be time for you to find a new restaurant. The old menu isn't coming back.

It is possible to outgrow Disney. It is possible that the magic is gone, for some people. Maybe part of Disney was seeing through our eyes as children, then experiencing it through the eyes of our children. Then over the years, the kids are no longer going with us, and the IP that we clung to is slipping aside for newer IPs that we are not as personally attached to... but guess what...look behind you, that crowd of people, bigger than it has ever been at any time in history, they are seeing the parks the way you used to. Through their young eyes, and through the eyes of their young. And in 30 years they will be complaining on these forums that their beloved Frozen Ride is being ripped out of WS to be replaced by some boring water ride about some country in northern europe.

You are correct, it is dead and will only be a place to take your kids in the future. I have voted with my dollars and after being an AP for years I have gone away

 

[Andrew C]

Saved from being a park for children only. It has been headed that way for years as no parent can resist their precious one when they say" Can I have that". Rather than a park the whole family can enjoy it has been turned into a park for kids only. A couple of the classic rides are left but for the most part the focus has been pandering to kids.

Hmm...with the exception of maybe Tomorrowland, I would say that it has held pretty steady. It has always been a family park and still is. If you want to call it a park for children, I guess that is up to you. I see it differently.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I think the deliberate dumbing down to a 6 year old's level of the parks in the last 10 years has a lot to do with your failure to see how this is a blatant move to get a "Frozen" presence into a park that was meant to enlighten and expand thinking. It will do nothing but make a boatload of money and does not further the intent of EPCOT center. Just one more brick in the wall. Keep it in the MK, that is a little girl's park already and can't be saved.

The thing is that EPCOT Center does not exist and hasn't for many years. What was the original intent of the imagineers basically died on the vine and a more diverse audience was the semi focus. We may not like that, but, it is reality. We can accept it or we can live in distress continuously because it's not like it once was. Very few things from the 80's are like they once were. The argument, if that original intent were still in affect, would be at least feasible, however, as it is now, it means nothing. EPCOT Center was replaced by Epcot. It has some of the same things physically but the focus is very different.

I know the next response will be something along the lines of... 'it's attitudes like yours that allows Disney to do this stuff.' That, of course, would be assuming that I personally had any power at all in how Disney makes it's decisions. Do I realize that putting that in Norway, along with Donald in Mexico is completely incompatible with the original concept? Certainly I do. But, Disney is a private enterprise and can do any damn thing they like. The have decided that this is no longer the message that they are trying to convey. The only power we have is to not participate and in many ways that's like throwing the baby out with the bath water. It will be years before the line will be short enough for me to see how it came out, but, it has also been years since I rode Maelstrom, so nothing missed really.

 

[JoeCamel]

Just one statement before I go, the increase in attendance can be tied to the increase in population and the increase in disposable income. It will not always be an increase in entertainment quality that draws people and as other venues develop the cost of what has been done will start to show in reduced occupancy rates and attendance will fall so maybe we get those halcyon days where we could wander the parks in late September or early December again and feel like it was all put on for our personal enjoyment but that will not last as the general population chooses to spend their dollars elsewhere as these parks will have nothing to draw them.

Maybe there will be a generational change that causes all these 6 year olds to want to bring their kids to the place they remember but I don't think so and I hope you all will afford me the option to have my own opinion on this.

 

[marni1971]

Imagine if Epcot of 2020 could be as dramatic, awe inspiring and cutting edge as it was in 1982. That's all it needs.

A lot to ask I know.

 

[danlb_2000]

Permits today for Pro-Sound to do AV install. I assume this is for both the ride and the M&G.

1600 Avenue of the Stars - Norway Attraction Rehab - AV Package - Low Voltage Terminations
1598 Avenue of the Stars - Norway Attraction Rehab - AV Package - Low Voltage Terminations

 

[lazyboy97o]

Imagine if Epcot of 2020 could be as dramatic, awe inspiring and cutting edge as it was in 1982. That's all it needs.

A lot to ask I know.

But little snowflakes don't like being inspired!

 

[FigmentForver96]

Imagine if Epcot of 2020 could be as dramatic, awe inspiring and cutting edge as it was in 1982. That's all it needs.

A lot to ask I know.

No it's all dead remember

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Imagine if Epcot of 2020 could be as dramatic, awe inspiring and cutting edge as it was in 1982. That's all it needs.

A lot to ask I know.

I think its possible- they just don't want to spend the time for research or the money to do it.

 

[Phil12]

If simply experiencing fiction meant accepting everything there is no point to the term as there would never be disbelief that is to be suspended.

Precisely. And the audience must make a conscious decision to suspend their inherent disbelief in order for the magic to work.

As one example, I don't enjoy "The Walking Dead". The concept is stupid (no wonder since it is based upon a comic book) and makes absolutely no sense. You have to suspend more than mere disbelief to watch that show. You also have to suspend common sense, many laws of physics and any semblance of time/space relationships (have you noticed that many years have gone by and yet they always have fresh batteries for all their flashlights?). Save for those problems it might be a good show. But I avoid "The Walking Dead" along with the Tiki Room and the CBJ.

 

[Goofyernmost]

EPCOT Center is Dead. There I said it. Time to accept it. If your favorite restaurant changes its menu, and you don't like it, time to find a new favorite.

It died when Walt died, and has been losing a little more each day. I challenge you to find anyone at Disney who still clings to the ancient concept of EPCOT Center. There is no internal argument, there is no one quiting over the violation of Walt's Dream. They are going to slowly change the whole thing. "Your" Epcot is gone, and clearly you don't like the magic kingdom either, so it may be time for you to find a new restaurant. The old menu isn't coming back.

I have to challenge the one highlighted sentence. Walt's Epcot Center was never born. The EPCOT Ctr. everyone is fretting about did not come into existence in reality or imagination until 16 years after Walt died. Walt's name shouldn't even be entered into this conversation... other then the stolen name he had absolutely nothing to do with its creation or it's concept. It is so far away from his concept that it cannot even be looked at in any reasonable way.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Precisely. And the audience must make a conscious decision to suspend their inherent disbelief in order for the magic to work.

As one example, I don't enjoy "The Walking Dead". The concept is stupid (no wonder since it is based upon a comic book) and makes absolutely no sense. You have to suspend more than mere disbelief to watch that show. You also have to suspend common sense, many laws of physics and any semblance of time/space relationships (have you noticed that many years have gone by and yet they always have fresh batteries for all their flashlights?). Save for those problems it might be a good show. But I avoid "The Walking Dead" along with the Tiki Room and the CBJ.

Not precisely. You cannot will yourself into liking The Walking Dead. You're nowhere near the point of suspension of disbelief because there is no plausible premise from which the disbelief is suspended. The Walking Dead being too much fiction makes it unenjoyable for you yet you are constantly saying that this constant barrage of unrelated, unconnected fictional elements are exactly what themed entertainment requires. Storytelling is storytelling and too many leaps of fiction break stories.

I have to challenge the one highlighted sentence. Walt's Epcot Center was never born. The EPCOT Ctr. everyone is fretting about did not come into existence in reality or imagination until 16 years after Walt died. Walt's name shouldn't even be entered into this conversation... other then the stolen name he had absolutely nothing to do with its creation or it's concept. It is so far away from his concept that it cannot even be looked at in any reasonable way.

Partnering with companies to share forward looking ideas and international exchange are both what turned a rather typical Garden City into interesting. Howard and Gruen's towns are quaint villages that due to their need for singular origins typically end up more boring than dynamic, the ideas that were carried into EPCOT Center are what made EPCOT exciting.

 

[Phil12]

What do you want? A scene where you float by the honeymoon suite on their wedding night and a whole bunch of frigid jokes?!?!?! They can't, won't or shouldn't change the characters to appeal to a different demographic than the movie... and the movie hits the young girl target.

Lets head around WDW and looks at the attractions... if you really think about it, from home at least, you would wonder why you would ever spend any money being their. With the exception of a coaster or 2, the whole place is downright silly, and in most cases very much aimed below our level. But much like a Mickey Bar somehow tastes better than an ice cream bar anywhere else, in FL, in the overall environment, even a ride targeting young girls could be fun. Most of WDW is an experience that is far greater than the sum of its parts. (The people mover....really! I love the people mover, but pick it up and put it anywhere else on this planet and I wouldn't even care enough to laugh at it)

Most of WDW is junk. Same is true at Disneyland. However, there are some attractions worth the effort to see and do. And Disney is smart enough to spread the best attractions among all four parks. Lots of people love the fireworks shows and the parades but I'm not among that group. I think it's important for Disney to appeal to all demographics but don't try to appeal to the entire family with each and every attraction.

Obviously different genders and different age groups have different interests. There's nothing wrong with having attractions that specifically appeal to boys, girls and adults of different age brackets. Movie ratings have been based upon this breakdown for many years.

I don't buy the premise that Disney can (or should) create attractions that appeal to the entire family. When they try those sorts of attractions they end up being watered down mush (Jungle Cruise). When I was a child, movies that I least wanted to see were those that were marketed as "family" movies.

I recall when EPCOT Center was brand new. All the educational exhibits were full of old and outdated equipment. In CommuniCore they had the Astuter Computer Revue which was an absolutely terrible attraction that educated the public about computers. I think it ended up being the shortest running show in Disney history. It was bad and it's replacement was only a little better.

Disney needs to stick to what they know best and that's entertainment.

 

[Cesar R M]

I have to challenge the one highlighted sentence. Walt's Epcot Center was never born. The EPCOT Ctr. everyone is fretting about did not come into existence in reality or imagination until 16 years after Walt died. Walt's name shouldn't even be entered into this conversation... other then the stolen name he had absolutely nothing to do with its creation or it's concept. It is so far away from his concept that it cannot even be looked at in any reasonable way.

Agree, wasnt walt idea more of a futuristic town that centers multi cultural relationships/technology?
I dont think it has anything to do with the EPCOT of today which changed more of a "show expo" and education-culttural center of today(which is pretty much getting destroyed by characters)

 

[FigmentForver96]

Most of WDW is junk. Same is true at Disneyland. However, there are some attractions worth the effort to see and do. And Disney is smart enough to spread the best attractions among all four parks. Lots of people love the fireworks shows and the parades but I'm not among that group. I think it's important for Disney to appeal to all demographics but don't try to appeal to the entire family with each and every attraction.

Obviously different genders and different age groups have different interests. There's nothing wrong with having attractions that specifically appeal to boys, girls and adults of different age brackets. Movie ratings have been based upon this breakdown for many years.

I don't buy the premise that Disney can (or should) create attractions that appeal to the entire family. When they try those sorts of attractions they end up being watered down mush (Jungle Cruise). When I was a child, movies that I least wanted to see were those that were marketed as "family" movies.

I recall when EPCOT Center was brand new. All the educational exhibits were full of old and outdated equipment. In CommuniCore they had the Astuter Computer Revue which was an absolutely terrible attraction that educated the public about computers. I think it ended up being the shortest running show in Disney history. It was bad and it's replacement was only a little better.

Disney needs to stick to what they know best and that's entertainment.

Yet Epcot Center was packed. I also Remeber things like touch screen computers being in Epcot Center and I know that wasn't outdated. Oh and the robotic system and I could go on and on

 

[Goofyernmost]

Partnering with companies to share forward looking ideas and international exchange are both what turned a rather typical Garden City into interesting. Howard and Gruen's towns are quaint villages that due to their need for singular origins typically end up more boring than dynamic, the ideas that were carried into EPCOT Center are what made EPCOT exciting.

I'm sure that you felt that way, and to some extent, so did I, however, it wasn't exciting for many, many people for whatever reason, it wasn't maintaining or living up to it's original draw. That's why it changed along with the fact that the partnership ended due to economics and the internet made it something that wasn't beneficial for businesses to continue to support. Those long lines at Horizons, WoM, Imagination were gone. Land was a bust and Seas was just a boring aquarium to very many people. Now we can all shake our heads in sorrow, but, that is what happened and why change was needed. But, on these boards we are all preaching to the choir. We know that... the rest of the world doesn't. It is just a continued willingness to suspend disbelieve that even keeps this argument alive. (and that's an intentional and a conscience choice)

 

[Phil12]

Not precisely. You cannot will yourself into liking The Walking Dead. You're nowhere near the point of suspension of disbelief because there is no plausible premise from which the disbelief is suspended. The Walking Dead being too much fiction makes it unenjoyable for you yet you are constantly saying that this constant barrage of unrelated, unconnected fictional elements are exactly what themed entertainment requires. Storytelling is storytelling and too many leaps of fiction break stories.

I see where you are confused now. Like or dislike has nothing to do with making the decision to suspend disbelief. I've seen plenty of shows that I totally disliked but was able to will myself to suspend my disbelief. And I've also seen shows that I liked very much and was able to suspend my disbelief.

As for "The Walking Dead", I lied. And contrary to your assumption, the premise of the show is highly plausible. The zombie apocalypse is a time honored tradition in the world of science fiction and our very own Walt Disney plays a part. After all it's science fiction and anything is possible.

It wouldn't surprise me if in coming episodes of "The Walking Dead" if the group starts heading south for Orlando in search of Walt Disney's cryogenically preserved body. Once they find his body they'll figure out the scientific steps required to bring him back to life, but they'll make a mistake or two in the revival procedure and his body will not function properly and he will go into a slow death coma.

While searching the cryogenic chamber where Walt was stored, they'll discover plans for highly advanced robotic animatronics. They'll build a robot and transplant Walt's brain into the device. And since they always have fresh batteries to power their flashlights, they'll have plenty of batteries to power the new Walt-bot.

Walt-bot (still being Walt since it's his brain) will open up a new park for zombie patrons and make another fortune which he will not share with Rick, Daryl or any of the other characters that helped bring him back to life. Some things never change.

Rick, Daryl and the others decide to leave but before they go, they tell Walt-bot to change his name since it sounds too much like Wal-Mart.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm sure that you felt that way, and to some extent, so did I, however, it wasn't exciting for many, many people for whatever reason, it wasn't maintaining or living up to it's original draw. That's why it changed along with the fact that the partnership ended due to economics and the internet made it something that wasn't beneficial for businesses to continue to support. Those long lines at Horizons, WoM, Imagination were gone. Land was a bust and Seas was just a boring aquarium to very many people. Now we can all shake our heads in sorrow, but, that is what happened and why change was needed. But, on these boards we are all preaching to the choir. We know that... the rest of the world doesn't. It is just a continued willingness to suspend disbelieve that even keeps this argument alive. (and that's an intentional and a conscience choice)

That is not at all related to what I said and isn't even true, EPCOT Center was plenty popular and moreso than Epcot.