Norway Pavilion Frozen construction - Frozen Ever After ride

[Haymarket2008]

Not possible. This is only supposed to be the cheapest of overlays. At least that's what been heavily reported and discussed here.

It has been heavily reported and discussed that it was entirely gutted and that the technology in its' presentation will be quite good and impressive. It isn't going to be top of the line theming, but far from the cheapest of overlays.

 

[NearTheEars]

It has been heavily reported and discussed that it was entirely gutted and that the technology in its' presentation will be quite good and impressive. It isn't going to be top of the line theming, but far from the cheapest of overlays.

I know that, and you know that, but there's a good 50 plus pages of discussion in this thread that claims what I sarcastically said. Tons of people wishing for this ride to fail.

Still wish it was headed to Fantasyland. Sigh.

RIP Maelstrom.

 

[Phil12]

Kids gravitate towards what they know. They know Frozen, they want to go on the Frozen ride. On the surface, they couldn't care less where it is. But proper theming has value. A child isn't necessarily going to get beyond the surface argument of, "I want to go on the Frozen ride", but subconsciously, that ride would be that much better if it's in an area that makes sense. Look at Little Mermaid in Florida vs. California. Florida has an excellent facade that adds to the guest enjoyment of the exact same attraction.

When a theme park is built with one intent and that changes, you can't just change it 5%. You have to do it 100%. That's why people aren't whining about Hollywood Studios overhaul, they're changing that park. In Epcot, they're changing that park piecemeal and it's death by 1000 paper cuts.

I distinctly recall that when Soarin' was built in The Land Pavilion, many people thought the "theme" had been broken. According to some (General Grizz rings a bell) the theme of that pavilion would be completely damaged with Soarin'.

I've never bought the "theme" argument however I understand how some people feel that theme should always be a top priority. The BAH in DHS was in perfect alignment with the Hollywood theme yet some people didn't like it. Go figure. It all really boils down to likes and dislikes.

For example, I consider the Enchanted Tiki Room and CBJ to be embarrassing artifacts that should have been removed from the MK years ago. Yet some consider those attractions to be the holy grail of theme park entertainment. Yet shouldn't singing bears and birds be in FantasyLand? It doesn't really matter if I'm right or wrong in my opinion. When I visit the MK, I don't waste my time on those attractions and instead visit the attractions I enjoy.

As for theme, you can take any attraction (boat ride, roller coaster, stage show, spinner) and theme it any way you desire. A spinner is still just a spinner no matter how you decorate the exterior. At the MK you've got spinners in Adventureland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland. And of course it's always fun to watch a steam train rumble through TomorrowLand.

I honestly don't know how people that are purists about theme can possibly enjoy themselves in any Disney park since breaks in theme are so ubiquitous in all of the parks. When I first visited Disneyland back in the 1960's someone asked me how I liked Main Street USA. I told them it was a nice Hollywood set but it didn't even begin to resemble a real turn of the century main street.

I pointed out that during the turn of the century, all buildings that had electricity also had k n o b and tube wiring that was nailed to the interior ceilings and the walls. The wiring was clearly visible on the interior walls because at that time wiring inside of walls was not used. Yet not one building on Main Street USA had k n o b and tube wiring. All of the modern construction techniques were obvious as well. So much for theme.

I frankly see no reason why Frozen is not perfectly appropriate in WS.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I distinctly recall that when Soarin' was built in The Land Pavilion, many people thought the "theme" had been broken. According to some (General Grizz rings a bell) the theme of that pavilion would be completely damaged with Soarin'.

I've never bought the "theme" argument however I understand how some people feel that theme should always be a top priority. The BAH in DHS was in perfect alignment with the Hollywood theme yet some people didn't like it. Go figure. It all really boils down to likes and dislikes.

For example, I consider the Enchanted Tiki Room and CBJ to be embarrassing artifacts that should have been removed from the MK years ago. Yet some consider those attractions to be the holy grail of theme park entertainment. Yet shouldn't singing bears and birds be in FantasyLand? It doesn't really matter if I'm right or wrong in my opinion. When I visit the MK, I don't waste my time on those attractions and instead visit the attractions I enjoy.

As for theme, you can take any attraction (boat ride, roller coaster, stage show, spinner) and theme it any way you desire. A spinner is still just a spinner no matter how you decorate the exterior. At the MK you've got spinners in Adventureland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland. And of course it's always fun to watch a steam train rumble through TomorrowLand.

I honestly don't know how people that are purists about theme can possibly enjoy themselves in any Disney park since breaks in theme are so ubiquitous in all of the parks. When I first visited Disneyland back in the 1960's someone asked me how I liked Main Street USA. I told them it was a nice Hollywood set but it didn't even begin to resemble a real turn of the century main street.

I pointed out that during the turn of the century, all buildings that had electricity also had k n o b and tube wiring that was nailed to the interior ceilings and the walls. The wiring was clearly visible on the interior walls because at that time wiring inside of walls was not used. Yet not one building on Main Street USA had k n o b and tube wiring. All of the modern construction techniques were obvious as well. So much for theme.

I frankly see no reason why Frozen is not perfectly appropriate in WS.

All you're doing nothing is conflating theme with different concepts such as historical recreation.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I distinctly recall that when Soarin' was built in The Land Pavilion, many people thought the "theme" had been broken. According to some (General Grizz rings a bell) the theme of that pavilion would be completely damaged with Soarin'.

I've never bought the "theme" argument however I understand how some people feel that theme should always be a top priority. The BAH in DHS was in perfect alignment with the Hollywood theme yet some people didn't like it. Go figure. It all really boils down to likes and dislikes.

For example, I consider the Enchanted Tiki Room and CBJ to be embarrassing artifacts that should have been removed from the MK years ago. Yet some consider those attractions to be the holy grail of theme park entertainment. Yet shouldn't singing bears and birds be in FantasyLand? It doesn't really matter if I'm right or wrong in my opinion. When I visit the MK, I don't waste my time on those attractions and instead visit the attractions I enjoy.

As for theme, you can take any attraction (boat ride, roller coaster, stage show, spinner) and theme it any way you desire. A spinner is still just a spinner no matter how you decorate the exterior. At the MK you've got spinners in Adventureland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland. And of course it's always fun to watch a steam train rumble through TomorrowLand.

I honestly don't know how people that are purists about theme can possibly enjoy themselves in any Disney park since breaks in theme are so ubiquitous in all of the parks. When I first visited Disneyland back in the 1960's someone asked me how I liked Main Street USA. I told them it was a nice Hollywood set but it didn't even begin to resemble a real turn of the century main street.

I pointed out that during the turn of the century, all buildings that had electricity also had k n o b and tube wiring that was nailed to the interior ceilings and the walls. The wiring was clearly visible on the interior walls because at that time wiring inside of walls was not used. Yet not one building on Main Street USA had k n o b and tube wiring. All of the modern construction techniques were obvious as well. So much for theme.

I frankly see no reason why Frozen is not perfectly appropriate in WS.

You bring up a good point in Soarin', also Splash Mountain. Here's the thing, there are instances where a great ride more or less supersedes appropriate theming/placemaking. People are far more willing to forgive a slight thematic break in that instance. Having said that, from a marginal standpoint Soarin' would be better suited exactly where it is in Epcot, but having a long blastoff queue that originates in Showcase Plaza (this would be following the Soarin' Around the World update). Thematically it's a better fit in DCA than Epcot, but this one isn't as egregious.

Conversely, Splash Mountain in California is thematically in the right place (although a bit jarring due to it's proximity to Haunted Mansion). However, the ride isn't as good as it's Florida counterpart which is technically not in the correct place. Splash Mountain in Florida is "practically perfect in every way" except for the thematic intrusion, and even that is probably lost on all but a handful of guests a day. That being said, if there were a thematically appropriate spot for Splash Mountain I think the attraction would be enjoyed that much more.

Take Escape from Gringotts for example, It's a good ride, but I think it gets inflated because the land it resides is so good. This is also a contributing reason for me inflating Kilimanjaro Safaris to my favorite attraction at any Disney Park. For me, it's an unbelievable attraction in an unbelievable land.

With Frozen, our expectations are an attraction at the level of Little Mermaid. When the attraction isn't a flawless e-ticket, we as fans find reasons to complain (there were more than enough complaints about Mermaid). When you start on the jag of complaining about something you throw in anything and everything that supports your argument. So for Frozen, we already know that it's a weak thematic fit and will very likely have capacity issues. It has two strikes against it before even opening. Don't listen to the argument about the Frozen IP itself, those are poor arguments.

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

I distinctly recall that when Soarin' was built in The Land Pavilion, many people thought the "theme" had been broken. According to some (General Grizz rings a bell) the theme of that pavilion would be completely damaged with Soarin'.

I've never bought the "theme" argument however I understand how some people feel that theme should always be a top priority. The BAH in DHS was in perfect alignment with the Hollywood theme yet some people didn't like it. Go figure. It all really boils down to likes and dislikes.

For example, I consider the Enchanted Tiki Room and CBJ to be embarrassing artifacts that should have been removed from the MK years ago. Yet some consider those attractions to be the holy grail of theme park entertainment. Yet shouldn't singing bears and birds be in FantasyLand? It doesn't really matter if I'm right or wrong in my opinion. When I visit the MK, I don't waste my time on those attractions and instead visit the attractions I enjoy.

As for theme, you can take any attraction (boat ride, roller coaster, stage show, spinner) and theme it any way you desire. A spinner is still just a spinner no matter how you decorate the exterior. At the MK you've got spinners in Adventureland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland. And of course it's always fun to watch a steam train rumble through TomorrowLand.

I honestly don't know how people that are purists about theme can possibly enjoy themselves in any Disney park since breaks in theme are so ubiquitous in all of the parks. When I first visited Disneyland back in the 1960's someone asked me how I liked Main Street USA. I told them it was a nice Hollywood set but it didn't even begin to resemble a real turn of the century main street.

I pointed out that during the turn of the century, all buildings that had electricity also had k n o b and tube wiring that was nailed to the interior ceilings and the walls. The wiring was clearly visible on the interior walls because at that time wiring inside of walls was not used. Yet not one building on Main Street USA had k n o b and tube wiring. All of the modern construction techniques were obvious as well. So much for theme.

I frankly see no reason why Frozen is not perfectly appropriate in WS.

Oddly enough. If you want turn of the century wiring. You'll have to go to Tomorrowland and see it in COP.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Oddly enough. If you want turn of the century wiring. You'll have to go to Tomorrowland and see it in COP.

Because there it is part of a specific image making. Most people asked to draw a fondly remembered place aren't often going to draw the infrastructure, it's not pet of the romantic image.

 

[boufa]

Its called willing suspension of disbelief.

We each have a different level of willingness. Colonial costumed person working a modern cash register... there are areas of opportunity for our disbelief to be suspended all over the place.

I for one cannot watch action movies. A bad guy gets barely touched and falls down, never to get back up again, and yet the hero gets his tail kicked all over the place and fights for a half hour and wins. I can't get past that. We all have our own levels where we are willing to subconsciously say "Ok I buy that, its cool"

 

[Phil12]

All you're doing nothing is conflating theme with different concepts such as historical recreation.

I've heard that rationalization before and it doesn't wash. The level of acceptance of what constitutes "theme" varies a great deal dependent upon the knowledge, experience and powers of observation of each beholder. Historical accuracy is not needed to convey theme in most cases. If indeed historical recreation was required, Disney theme parks would have gone out of business long ago.

 

[Phil12]

Its called willing suspension of disbelief.

We each have a different level of willingness. Colonial costumed person working a modern cash register... there are areas of opportunity for our disbelief to be suspended all over the place.

I for one cannot watch action movies. A bad guy gets barely touched and falls down, never to get back up again, and yet the hero gets his tail kicked all over the place and fights for a half hour and wins. I can't get past that. We all have our own levels where we are willing to subconsciously say "Ok I buy that, its cool"

You're absolutely correct. You've got to be a willing participant and "buy into" the entire illusion. And as you point out, we all have different levels of willingness to participate in the theme or even appreciate the theme. And, of course, some people are more easily fooled than others and some people are more willing to be fooled. Being fooled can often be great entertainment!

I think the most famous story about theme in a Disney park revolves around a Walt Disney story. Supposedly Walt once saw a cast member dressed as a cowboy walking through TomorrowLand. The story goes that Walt was upset because he felt "the show" had been compromised and he was determined to change things in the future to preserve the show. Hence the utilidors were built at MK in WDW.

Of course, there are a lot of things wrong with that story, not the least of which is that Walt was dead when the MK was built. And I can think of several much less expensive ways to keep cowboys out of Tomorrowland. But the real point is that it is important to preserve "the show". Because, after all, the entire theme park is show business.

I often hear certain fans get all worried over the prospect that Disney might one day remove the steam trains from the MK and replace them with diesel trains as Universal has done with the Hogwarts Express. My assertion is that as long as they preserve the illusion of a steam train, who cares what fuel is used to run the train? They don't need to have an expensive steam boiler on those trains.

Therefore, what we're left with is that certain people just refuse to accept the change from the Maelstrom to Frozen using a violation of theme as their reason. In reality they've already decided not to accept it and they will refuse to suspend their disbelief for even a second and instead complain to anyone within earshot of the travesty that Bob Iger has wrought upon the WS.

For me, I'll continue to avoid the Tiki birds and the CBJ like the plague because for me they're bad show. However, I'll check out the new Frozen attraction when it comes on line. I honestly don't know if I'll like it or not. But I like Stitch's Great Escape over at the MK so maybe when they have the grand opening of Frozen, Stitch will make a visit and tee-pee the attraction.

 

[FigmentForver96]

You're absolutely correct. You've got to be a willing participant and "buy into" the entire illusion. And as you point out, we all have different levels of willingness to participate in the theme or even appreciate the theme. And, of course, some people are more easily fooled than others and some people are more willing to be fooled. Being fooled can often be great entertainment!

I think the most famous story about theme in a Disney park revolves around a Walt Disney story. Supposedly Walt once saw a cast member dressed as a cowboy walking through TomorrowLand. The story goes that Walt was upset because he felt "the show" had been compromised and he was determined to change things in the future to preserve the show. Hence the utilidors were built at MK in WDW.

Of course, there are a lot of things wrong with that story, not the least of which is that Walt was dead when the MK was built. And I can think of several much less expensive ways to keep cowboys out of Tomorrowland. But the real point is that it is important to preserve "the show". Because, after all, the entire theme park is show business.

I often hear certain fans get all worried over the prospect that Disney might one day remove the steam trains from the MK and replace them with diesel trains as Universal has done with the Hogwarts Express. My assertion is that as long as they preserve the illusion of a steam train, who cares what fuel is used to run the train? They don't need to have an expensive steam boiler on those trains.

Therefore, what we're left with is that certain people just refuse to accept the change from the Maelstrom to Frozen using a violation of theme as their reason. In reality they've already decided not to accept it and they will refuse to suspend their disbelief for even a second and instead complain to anyone within earshot of the travesty that Bob Iger has wrought upon the WS.

For me, I'll continue to avoid the Tiki birds and the CBJ like the plague because for me they're bad show. However, I'll check out the new Frozen attraction when it comes on line. I honestly don't know if I'll like it or not. But I like Stitch's Great Escape over at the MK so maybe when they have the grand opening of Frozen, Stitch will make a visit and tee-pee the attraction.

I'll give the ride a shot and will base it based solely on the ride factor. I forever will be teed an managment because there was nothing about what they did that didn't scream cheap and lazy.

 

[Phil12]

Oddly enough. If you want turn of the century wiring. You'll have to go to Tomorrowland and see it in COP.

You're right! There is no doubt that when COP was built, the designers used photos from the turn of the century to replicate the tangle of wires shown in COP. Early users of electricity did not understand the dangers associated with drawing too many amps from a circuit.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Its called willing suspension of disbelief.

Suspension of disbelief is a reaction, not a decision.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I distinctly recall that when Soarin' was built in The Land Pavilion, many people thought the "theme" had been broken. According to some (General Grizz rings a bell) the theme of that pavilion would be completely damaged with Soarin'.

I've never bought the "theme" argument however I understand how some people feel that theme should always be a top priority. The BAH in DHS was in perfect alignment with the Hollywood theme yet some people didn't like it. Go figure. It all really boils down to likes and dislikes.

For example, I consider the Enchanted Tiki Room and CBJ to be embarrassing artifacts that should have been removed from the MK years ago. Yet some consider those attractions to be the holy grail of theme park entertainment. Yet shouldn't singing bears and birds be in FantasyLand? It doesn't really matter if I'm right or wrong in my opinion. When I visit the MK, I don't waste my time on those attractions and instead visit the attractions I enjoy.

As for theme, you can take any attraction (boat ride, roller coaster, stage show, spinner) and theme it any way you desire. A spinner is still just a spinner no matter how you decorate the exterior. At the MK you've got spinners in Adventureland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland. And of course it's always fun to watch a steam train rumble through TomorrowLand.

I honestly don't know how people that are purists about theme can possibly enjoy themselves in any Disney park since breaks in theme are so ubiquitous in all of the parks. When I first visited Disneyland back in the 1960's someone asked me how I liked Main Street USA. I told them it was a nice Hollywood set but it didn't even begin to resemble a real turn of the century main street.

I pointed out that during the turn of the century, all buildings that had electricity also had k n o b and tube wiring that was nailed to the interior ceilings and the walls. The wiring was clearly visible on the interior walls because at that time wiring inside of walls was not used. Yet not one building on Main Street USA had k n o b and tube wiring. All of the modern construction techniques were obvious as well. So much for theme.

I frankly see no reason why Frozen is not perfectly appropriate in WS.

I'd love for you to pontificate on how the BAH fit thematically.

 

[aladdin2007]

I'll give the ride a shot and will base it based solely on the ride factor. I forever will be teed an managment because there was nothing about what they did that didn't scream cheap and lazy.

this!!

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'd love for you to pontificate on how the BAH fit thematically.

A misunderstanding of California Crazy, theme and the theme of Hollywood Blvd. Right there he used the Hollywood-movies-specific film argument repeatedly trotted out that ignores the notion of place and multiple connections in the construct of theme.

But of course he also still insists that the Chinese Theater is not visible from the Crossroads of the World.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

A misunderstanding of California Crazy, theme and the theme of Hollywood Blvd. Right there he used the Hollywood-movies-specific film argument repeatedly trotted out that ignores the notion of place and multiple connections in the construct of theme.

But of course he also still insists that the Chinese Theater is not visible from the Crossroads of the World.

So, Olympics worthy mental gymnastics.

Team U.S.A. gets a 9.0! He nailed the landing!

 

[lazyboy97o]

So, Olympics worthy mental gymnastics.

Team U.S.A. gets a 9.0! He nailed the landing!

Its not really gymnastics, but the result of there not being a general well regard for the theory of theme, be it amongst purveyors or fans. The result is constant confusion between experience, decor, concept, aesthetics and the many other individual aspects that do relate to theme. There is a whole hotel at Walt Disney World that is allegedly of a similar theme where the BAH would fit right in.

 

[Smiddimizer]

I distinctly recall that when Soarin' was built in The Land Pavilion, many people thought the "theme" had been broken. According to some (General Grizz rings a bell) the theme of that pavilion would be completely damaged with Soarin'.

I've never bought the "theme" argument however I understand how some people feel that theme should always be a top priority. The BAH in DHS was in perfect alignment with the Hollywood theme yet some people didn't like it. Go figure. It all really boils down to likes and dislikes.

For example, I consider the Enchanted Tiki Room and CBJ to be embarrassing artifacts that should have been removed from the MK years ago. Yet some consider those attractions to be the holy grail of theme park entertainment. Yet shouldn't singing bears and birds be in FantasyLand? It doesn't really matter if I'm right or wrong in my opinion. When I visit the MK, I don't waste my time on those attractions and instead visit the attractions I enjoy.

As for theme, you can take any attraction (boat ride, roller coaster, stage show, spinner) and theme it any way you desire. A spinner is still just a spinner no matter how you decorate the exterior. At the MK you've got spinners in Adventureland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland. And of course it's always fun to watch a steam train rumble through TomorrowLand.

I honestly don't know how people that are purists about theme can possibly enjoy themselves in any Disney park since breaks in theme are so ubiquitous in all of the parks. When I first visited Disneyland back in the 1960's someone asked me how I liked Main Street USA. I told them it was a nice Hollywood set but it didn't even begin to resemble a real turn of the century main street.

I pointed out that during the turn of the century, all buildings that had electricity also had k n o b and tube wiring that was nailed to the interior ceilings and the walls. The wiring was clearly visible on the interior walls because at that time wiring inside of walls was not used. Yet not one building on Main Street USA had k n o b and tube wiring. All of the modern construction techniques were obvious as well. So much for theme.

I frankly see no reason why Frozen is not perfectly appropriate in WS.

You're absolutely correct. You've got to be a willing participant and "buy into" the entire illusion. And as you point out, we all have different levels of willingness to participate in the theme or even appreciate the theme. And, of course, some people are more easily fooled than others and some people are more willing to be fooled. Being fooled can often be great entertainment!

I think the most famous story about theme in a Disney park revolves around a Walt Disney story. Supposedly Walt once saw a cast member dressed as a cowboy walking through TomorrowLand. The story goes that Walt was upset because he felt "the show" had been compromised and he was determined to change things in the future to preserve the show. Hence the utilidors were built at MK in WDW.

Of course, there are a lot of things wrong with that story, not the least of which is that Walt was dead when the MK was built. And I can think of several much less expensive ways to keep cowboys out of Tomorrowland. But the real point is that it is important to preserve "the show". Because, after all, the entire theme park is show business.

I often hear certain fans get all worried over the prospect that Disney might one day remove the steam trains from the MK and replace them with diesel trains as Universal has done with the Hogwarts Express. My assertion is that as long as they preserve the illusion of a steam train, who cares what fuel is used to run the train? They don't need to have an expensive steam boiler on those trains.

Therefore, what we're left with is that certain people just refuse to accept the change from the Maelstrom to Frozen using a violation of theme as their reason. In reality they've already decided not to accept it and they will refuse to suspend their disbelief for even a second and instead complain to anyone within earshot of the travesty that Bob Iger has wrought upon the WS.

For me, I'll continue to avoid the Tiki birds and the CBJ like the plague because for me they're bad show. However, I'll check out the new Frozen attraction when it comes on line. I honestly don't know if I'll like it or not. But I like Stitch's Great Escape over at the MK so maybe when they have the grand opening of Frozen, Stitch will make a visit and tee-pee the attraction.

Consistently calling attention to the arbitrariness of themed entertainment makes it seem like you don’t take it seriously. You were perfectly fine with the BAH, and since Main Street was lacking in knobs and tubes the whole illusion is kitsch, and thus there is no reason to draw the line anywhere; there’s no reason to care about anything as long as there’s a contrived pretence to suitable theme. As long as it’s “showy”. Frozen is fine because hell, it looks enough like Norway. Am I getting that right?

We all have preconceptions about the project because it’s just obvious what it is. Frozen is not perfectly appropriate for WS because most fans can see past the lustre and observe, as RedSox pointed out, the piecemeal devolution of Epcot into Magic Kingdom South. You’re welcome to be okay with that, but it is what it is. Epcot was so complete in 1982 that you can imagine a “constitution” for what that park was based on its dedication, its content, common themes, and the continuing additions that characterized the park for its originality. IPs aren’t evil, but they’re not original, and they’re incongruous to the vision of Epcot devised by the second generation imagineers. That is fact.

However I’m not accusing you of being wrong because all you’re essentially saying is, “who cares? theme parks are theme parks, truth is subjective, get a grip people.” You can argue that reinforcing standards of authenticity over practicality has a basis in lunacy, I mean who will really notice the transition from steam to diesel? Well it’s funny you acknowledge that toddlers wouldn’t appreciate Parking Lot Frozen because of a red flag in their subconscious. You can call it whatever you like, but history proves that the same sensation takes off when creators are insane about the details. Look at how successful shows like Mad Men are, Matthew Weiner is obsessive about getting the period right among letters, magazines, mastheads, stamps, things NO ONE will ever pick up on. Look at the special features for Lord of the Rings for all the intricacies and hidden symbols in every article of clothing, in the architecture, the weaponry. Things that are so subtle they’re practically invisible to the eye….and look, it’s one of the most beloved franchises of all time. Theme parks are a show business, and this is how show business works. No one knows there’s steam in that train…and yet, it’s there.

So while we “purists” are hypocritically ignoring the missing knobs and tubes, we’re aware of the moving parts. How every trivial rite or detail, as insane as it looks on paper, is necessary to make the greater “it” what it is. Even if that thing is a highly romanticized environment bordering on fiction, themed environments are created by having a story, getting the details right, and sticking to both like glue. That’s how you suspend an audience’s disbelief. Frozen will be a transgression from Epcot’s story, an enjoyable experience if it’s good enough to make us forget where we are. When you walk up to “Frozen Ever After” in a pavilion that’s meant to mimic reality however (not to mention a different country), the suspension of disbelief will be shattered immediately.

I hope this doesn’t just sound stupid to you. There’s an art to themed entertainment that’s as delicate and as sophisticated as what matters in high concept films, maybe even art films. You might call us crazy…and we might call you Philistine12.


(I always skip the birds and the bears too)

 

[JoeCamel]

Consistently calling attention to the arbitrariness of themed entertainment makes it seem like you don’t take it seriously. You were perfectly fine with the BAH, and since Main Street was lacking in knobs and tubes the whole illusion is kitsch, and thus there is no reason to draw the line anywhere; there’s no reason to care about anything as long as there’s a contrived pretence to suitable theme. As long as it’s “showy”. Frozen is fine because hell, it looks enough like Norway. Am I getting that right?

We all have preconceptions about the project because it’s just obvious what it is. Frozen is not perfectly appropriate for WS because most fans can see past the lustre and observe, as RedSox pointed out, the piecemeal devolution of Epcot into Magic Kingdom South. You’re welcome to be okay with that, but it is what it is. Epcot was so complete in 1982 that you can imagine a “constitution” for what that park was based on its dedication, its content, common themes, and the continuing additions that characterized the park for its originality. IPs aren’t evil, but they’re not original, and they’re incongruous to the vision of Epcot devised by the second generation imagineers. That is fact.

However I’m not accusing you of being wrong because all you’re essentially saying is, “who cares? theme parks are theme parks, truth is subjective, get a grip people.” You can argue that reinforcing standards of authenticity over practicality has a basis in lunacy, I mean who will really notice the transition from steam to diesel? Well it’s funny you acknowledge that toddlers wouldn’t appreciate Parking Lot Frozen because of a red flag in their subconscious. You can call it whatever you like, but history proves that the same sensation takes off when creators are insane about the details. Look at how successful shows like Mad Men are, Matthew Weiner is obsessive about getting the period right among letters, magazines, mastheads, stamps, things NO ONE will ever pick up on. Look at the special features for Lord of the Rings for all the intricacies and hidden symbols in every article of clothing, in the architecture, the weaponry. Things that are so subtle they’re practically invisible to the eye….and look, it’s one of the most beloved franchises of all time. Theme parks are a show business, and this is how show business works. No one knows there’s steam in that train…and yet, it’s there.

So while we “purists” are hypocritically ignoring the missing knobs and tubes, we’re aware of the moving parts. How every trivial rite or detail, as insane as it looks on paper, is necessary to make the greater “it” what it is. Even if that thing is a highly romanticized environment bordering on fiction, themed environments are created by having a story, getting the details right, and sticking to both like glue. That’s how you suspend an audience’s disbelief. Frozen will be a transgression from Epcot’s story, an enjoyable experience if it’s good enough to make us forget where we are. When you walk up to “Frozen Ever After” in a pavilion that’s meant to mimic reality however (not to mention a different country), the suspension of disbelief will be shattered immediately.

I hope this doesn’t just sound stupid to you. There’s an art to themed entertainment that’s as delicate and as sophisticated as what matters in high concept films, maybe even art films. You might call us crazy…and we might call you Philistine12.


(I always skip the birds and the bears too)

Thank you for saying this.....better than I ever could...