No fastpasses available today?

[Gabe1]

I'm putting that out there as a likely option. Just because RCID is building them - doesn't mean RCID will be the only one who would operate them. Your original post basically said because it's RCID (gov) built, it is unlikely that RCID would let Disney charge for them. Leasing them is a model where that could happen - so it's not unrealistic.

Given that RCID doesn't have an existing division or staff to do this type of work, it makes sense that they would contract it out or outright lease the parking facilities. There are scenarios where it makes more sense for Disney (and hence.. RCID) to lease the garages as the model to fund and operate them.

Long and short of it... just because RCID is the one building them - that doesn't limit how they are operated.

Ah OK, hypothetical. I wasn't being hypothetical with the thought of nobody charging a fee for garages though. This came out of the IRS portion of the news and obscure government agencies going into debt for private businesses which RC is doing for Disney, RC is borrowing money to build parking garages for the Disney Springs expansion. Though it would be hilarious if RC did allow Disney to charge patrons to use the garages that were publicly funded. That would be Government in our country at its best. lol

Hypothetically, if RC decides to lease out the garages, how does Disney necessarily win the Bid and get awarded the lease once it is opened for the public bidding process of leasing governmental property? Those puppies are a sealed bid process. Once open for bid it would be too funny for garages built by RC to be leased to the highest bidder from Abu Dhabi.

If I was the empress of WDW I'd forget trying to profit off a structure I didn't have to fund, hope the handout ridicule fades and not even attempt to charge to park in the 2 structures. This Empress would not want to fuel the fires again, bring the press, the IRS or Michelle Obama's two cents, (she already believes she lives in the Haunted House,) into the mix again.

 

[DWhetstone]

I noticed on the home page that they will no longer be giving key to the world cards. So now if you get the magic bands, you will not be able to use old fastpass. I wonder if that will have an impact on the amount of fastpasses available in the park since onsite guests will no longer be using them, only the fastpass+?

 

[ABQ]

I noticed on the home page that they will no longer be giving key to the world cards. So now if you get the magic bands, you will not be able to use old fastpass. I wonder if that will have an impact on the amount of fastpasses available in the park since onsite guests will no longer be using them, only the fastpass+?

Good point, one would think it would help level the playing field a bit.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Same could be said about Future World. The lack of attractions contributes to the Soarin' wait time and FP distribution issues.

Absolutely. A new attraction at Imagination is a must.

No offense to @marni1971, but has anyone else verified that this is just a temporary glitch? It's been a week+ now.

 

[ExtinctJenn]

I noticed on the home page that they will no longer be giving key to the world cards. So now if you get the magic bands, you will not be able to use old fastpass. I wonder if that will have an impact on the amount of fastpasses available in the park since onsite guests will no longer be using them, only the fastpass+?

I believe if you had Magic Bands before (i.e. if you tested) you didn't also have a KTTW card nor access to paper FP... so not really "new." Though that said, as I understand it, the ultimate goal is there won't be any paper FPs period. Once the system is full-live, the paper dispensers will be removed from the park and those with a non-resort guest ticket will touch their RFID enabled ticket to the electronic kiosks and be presented with return time options (and then simply remember them or associate your ticket with an MDE account). I may be wrong but gosh I've read an awful lot on the topic and that seems to be the general consensus.

 

[notnothin]

Absolutely. A new attraction at Imagination is a must.

No offense to @marni1971, but has anyone else verified that this is just a temporary glitch? It's been a week+ now.

It happened again today as well.

 

[Bairstow]

I believe if you had Magic Bands before (i.e. if you tested) you didn't also have a KTTW card nor access to paper FP...

When we visited in September we stayed at a rented Animal Kingdom Lodge DVC studio and bought tickets through Undercover Tourist.
So, by participating in the MyMagic+ test and linking everything before we got down there we had paper tickets, a KTTW card, and MagicBands.
We primarily used the MagicBands but all three of them worked just fine and we were able "double-dip", that is, use both pre-reserved FastPassPlus return times and get paper fastpasses both on the same day.

 

[ExtinctJenn]

When we visited in September we stayed at a rented Animal Kingdom Lodge DVC studio and bought tickets through Undercover Tourist.
So, by participating in the MyMagic+ test and linking everything before we got down there we had paper tickets, a KTTW card, and MagicBands.
We primarily used the MagicBands but all three of them worked just fine and we were able "double-dip", that is, use both pre-reserved FastPassPlus return times and get paper fastpasses both on the same day.

Ahhhh ok that's right I do remember hearing about that (and now that I think about it, I've seen subsequent backlash from that). Sooooooo probably a good thing it's changing huh?

 

[ParentsOf4]

FP+ should encourage more guests to enter lines, placing greater demand on capacity, resulting in longer net waits. Even with identical theme park attendance, queues will grow longer with FP+. This will continue until Disney reduces the number of FP+ being distributed.

Using the old FP system, guests had 3 choices: enter a Standby line, get a FP for a later return time, or walk away. For example, someone arriving in front of TSM at 10 AM might have 3 options: enter the Standby line with a posted wait time of 120 minutes, get a FP for a 7 PM return time, or try something else.

With the old FP system, some simply walked away, never placing demand on TSM capacity. Others grabbed the 7 PM FP but then never use it. The old system discouraged many from riding TSM. As a result, they ended up wandering the park looking for something else to do that didn’t require waiting as long. In the case of TSM, perhaps they walked over to One Man's Dream, LMA, Backlot Tour, or Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground, which frequently had unused capacity. Perhaps they shopped or perhaps they simply left the park earlier, heading back to their hotel to relax poolside.

With FP+, guests have guaranteed times to enter the FP+ line. In fact, as corporate Disney intended, they’ve planned their entire days around it. Even if the FP+ wait time is 30 minutes, they are less likely to walk away and waste that valuable FP+. After all, it’s still better than waiting in the Standby line and, again, they’ve planned their day around riding a specific attraction at a specific time.

Meanwhile, the Standby line remains sufficiently occupied to guarantee that any TSM capacity not used by FP+ riders will be used by Standby riders. The Standby line time remains high even if there are fewer people in it because more of the attraction’s capacity is used by the FP+ line. The Standby line at TSM remains at 120 minutes even if the Standby line has fewer people than it did with FP.

Think of it this way: more are willing to wait in a 30-minute line than a 120-minute line. The fewer people waiting in the 120-minute Standby line will be more than offset by more people waiting in the 30-minute FP+ line.

The net effect is that with FP+, more are standing in line placing demand on capacity where it's least available. There are fewer wandering about looking for something else to do. As a result, more are in line at popular attractions even if daily attendance does not change.

Disney has some brilliant queuing theory experts. No doubt, they foresaw this happening and probably suggested decreasing the allocation of FP+. It’s possible they were ignored by management who were repulsed at the thought of actually decreasing FP+ allotment. It’s difficult to explain to executives that as a result of their $2B investment, there needs to be fewer FP+ distributed.

Will there be technical glitches while the system is in testing? You bet. However, one of the “glitches” might very well be failure to take into account how FP+ alters guest behavior.

With FP+ being added at attractions that didn’t need FP+ causing longer Standby lines at those attractions, expect lines to remain long until Disney figures out the right FP+ balance.

 

[Pixie VaVoom]

I don't know about the rest of you...but the more frustrated I get from LONG RIDE LINES...the less I am inclined to SPEND miney on SOUVENIRS. If I am waiting in line all day- I can't shop!!! because when I get out of the LOOONNNNGGG line, then what do I want to do ??? Find a BATHROOM !!!

 

[bladerunner]

FP+ should encourage more guests to enter lines, placing greater demand on capacity, resulting in longer net waits. Even with identical theme park attendance, queues will grow longer with FP+. This will continue until Disney reduces the number of FP+ being distributed.

Using the old FP system, guests had 3 choices: enter a Standby line, get a FP for a later return time, or walk away. For example, someone arriving in front of TSM at 10 AM might have 3 options: enter the Standby line with a posted wait time of 120 minutes, get a FP for a 7 PM return time, or try something else.

With the old FP system, some simply walked away, never placing demand on TSM capacity. Others grabbed the 7 PM FP but then never use it. The old system discouraged many from riding TSM. As a result, they ended up wandering the park looking for something else to do that didn’t require waiting as long. In the case of TSM, perhaps they walked over to One Man's Dream, LMA, Backlot Tour, or Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground, which frequently had unused capacity. Perhaps they shopped or perhaps they simply left the park earlier, heading back to their hotel to relax poolside.

With FP+, guests have guaranteed times to enter the FP+ line. In fact, as corporate Disney intended, they’ve planned their entire days around it. Even if the FP+ wait time is 30 minutes, they are less likely to walk away and waste that valuable FP+. After all, it’s still better than waiting in the Standby line and, again, they’ve planned their day around riding a specific attraction at a specific time.

Meanwhile, the Standby line remains sufficiently occupied to guarantee that any TSM capacity not used by FP+ riders will be used by Standby riders. The Standby line time remains high even if there are fewer people in it because more of the attraction’s capacity is used by the FP+ line. The Standby line at TSM remains at 120 minutes even if the Standby line has fewer people than it did with FP.

Think of it this way: more are willing to wait in a 30-minute line than a 120-minute line. The fewer people waiting in the 120-minute Standby line will be more than offset by more people waiting in the 30-minute FP+ line.

The net effect is that with FP+, more are standing in line placing demand on capacity where it's least available. There are fewer wandering about looking for something else to do. As a result, more are in line at popular attractions even if daily attendance does not change.

Disney has some brilliant queuing theory experts. No doubt, they foresaw this happening and probably suggested decreasing the allocation of FP+. It’s possible they were ignored by management who were repulsed at the thought of actually decreasing FP+ allotment. It’s difficult to explain to executives that as a result of their $2B investment, there needs to be fewer FP+ distributed.

Will there be technical glitches while the system is in testing? You bet. However, one of the “glitches” might very well be failure to take into account how FP+ alters guest behavior.

With FP+ being added at attractions that didn’t need FP+ causing longer Standby lines at those attractions, expect lines to remain long until Disney figures out the right FP+ balance.

So if I understand ... If I can't get a FP+ for TSM during my trip then I will likely wait longer in a standby line? If I am fortunate and can insure a FP+ in advance of my visit it is likely that the FP+ line will be longer than the old standard FP line was? This is a great new system Disney has designed - I am really not looking forward to it at all. I wish them luck.

 

[ExtinctJenn]

So if I understand ... If I can't get a FP+ for TSM during my trip then I will likely wait longer in a standby line? If I am fortunate and can insure a FP+ in advance of my visit it is likely that the FP+ will be longer than the old standard FP line was? This is a great new system Disney has designed - I am really not looking forward to it at all. I wish them luck.

Don't jump over that fence just yet... thus far this is nothing but assumptions and debate and until the system is full live and there is no longer a mix of systems in place no one can know for sure. Standby times went up slightly (though not as dramatically as many feel in my opinion) when FPs were first introduced. If the number of FPs given out (combined FP+ and kiosk) doesn't exceed what they've allowed since 1999, the wait times wouldn't be any different than they are today.

 

[msteel]

No offense to @marni1971, but has anyone else verified that this is just a temporary glitch? It's been a week+ now.

According the the original poster in this thread, the original issue was that there were NO paper fastpasses available that day:

He said they got there at opening to find TSM with no FP's so I don't think they could have run out yet.

And I don't think that has continued - just gone earlier than they used to be, now that FP+ has been taking some of the slots.

It happened again today as well.

Unless I missed something today.

 

[ParentsOf4]

So if I understand ... If I can't get a FP+ for TSM during my trip then I will likely wait longer in a standby line? If I am fortunate and can insure a FP+ in advance of my visit it is likely that the FP+ will be longer than the old standard FP line was? This is a great new system Disney has designed - I am really not looking forward to it at all. I wish them luck.

Eventually, Standby waits for attractions that previously had FP should return to normal.

When a person stands in front of an attraction (or uses the My Disney Experience app), they decide if they are willing to wait the amount of time listed for that attraction. Think of this as the cost of the attraction. Will I wait 10 minutes for TSM? Will I wait 100 minutes for TSM? As the price goes up, there will be fewer willing to pay the price. This behavior tends to self-regulate.

I suspect the problem right now is that Disney is overdistributing FP+. They are handing out too many. This doesn't mean they are handing out more FP+ than they did FP; it means a higher percentage of guests are cashing in their FP+.

Because guests get their FP only after they arrive in front of TSM, some guests have to decide between either walking away because the price is too high or getting a FP for much later in the day. Those that simply give up are in the park and probably will instead try another experience with a much shorter wait, or do something with no wait. Some of those that get a FP for much later in the day will simply never use it. Both groups represent people in the park who won't ride TSM that day, even though both groups arrived intending to ride TSM.

With FP+, guests have guaranteed times before they ever enter the parks. They've planned around that time, the same way they planned around showing up early to try to ride TSM with FP. The difference is that they now have a FP+ before they arrive. It's like having a doctor's appointment; guests are more likely to keep that appointment. That's Disney's basic business model for FP+; get guests to preplan their entire vacations so they don't visit other Orlando tourist destinations. These FP+ folks are more likely to actually ride TSM.

Using some ballpark numbers, let's assume TSM handles 1200 guests/hour. Let's also assume Disney previously handed out 1000 FP/hour for TSM. For FP+, Disney should have to reduce the number of FP+ being distributed, say from 1000/hour to 900/hour. Once they do this, line for attractions that previously had FP should mostly return to normal. (Mostly because FP+ now are being distributed from opening, say 9:00 AM, whereas in the past FP was distributed only for times beginning at 9:45 AM. So guests will begin to enter the FP+ earlier, meaning the Standby line will grow faster earlier.)

In the case of attractions that previously did not have FP (e.g. POTC), yes, Standby lines will be longer. FP+ doesn't increase or decrease ride capacity; it only changes how that capacity is distributed. Thus, using POTC as an example, whereas before everyone might wait 15 minutes, now with FP+, some will wait 5 minutes while others will wait 25 minutes.

Eventually, once everything settles out, total wait times shouldn't change much. However, on an individual basis, wait times could change drastically. Someone who was a "FastPass Super User" probably will end up waiting longer than they did in the past while someone who was a WDW rookie probably will end up waiting less than rookies did with FP.

Still, we cannot be sure how FP+ will settle out. If it ends up encouraging more to stand in line, the net effect could be that the total wait time will grow even if attendance does not. In other words, FP+ could end up encouraging more people to wait in certain lines rather than distributing them more evenly throughout WDW.

Let's hope corporate Disney tweaks the FP+ distribution numbers to restore some balance. One fear is they won't because the more FP+ they distribute for "good" attractions, the more guests they have that are likely to show up. It's in WDW's best financial interest to overdistribute FP+ for TSM, even if guests wait longer. Waiting 30 minutes for TSM is still better than waiting 120 minutes. Disney would rather have you in DHS waiting 30 minutes to ride TSM than have you not visit a WDW park at all.

 

[dupac]

So if I understand ... If I can't get a FP+ for TSM during my trip then I will likely wait longer in a standby line? If I am fortunate and can insure a FP+ in advance of my visit it is likely that the FP+ line will be longer than the old standard FP line was? This is a great new system Disney has designed - I am really not looking forward to it at all. I wish them luck.

I'm not sure how the new system is any different than the old when you get right down to it. Instead of racing to get your FP at rope drop, you're just moving it 60 days out. People will still balk at long lines. People will still decide NOT to use their 7:00pm reservation because Junior had a melt down, or you're hungry, or everyone is hot and just wants to swim, etc.

 

[Bairstow]

I'm not sure how the new system is any different than the old when you get right down to it. Instead of racing to get your FP at rope drop, you're just moving it 60 days out. People will still balk at long lines. People will still decide NOT to use their 7:00pm reservation because Junior had a melt down, or you're hungry, or everyone is hot and just wants to swim, etc.

The advantage of the new system is that families don't have to be at rope drop just to get a Toy Story fastpass.
They can still be there for other reasons, but now more people can enjoy their vacations, sleep in, and get to the park when they want to and still be secure that they will be able to experience the attraction at their prescheduled time.
Maybe this way Junior will be less likely to have meltdowns in the first place.

 

[dupac]

No, no. I get that! I meant in terms of waits. I'm not against FP+ other than the whole 60 days out aspect. I think a smaller window would be appropriate. But believe me I like the idea. I'm not a rope drop person. I think I've made it to rope drop once and I barely remember it because I was half-asleep.

Buuuut, I think that the only way the number of people keeping their FP+ reservations is going to significantly increase is if people have a financial investment in them.

 

[ParentsOf4]

The advantage of the new system is that families don't have to be at rope drop just to get a Toy Story fastpass.
They can still be there for other reasons, but now more people can enjoy their vacations, sleep in, and get to the park when they want to and still be secure that they will be able to experience the attraction at their prescheduled time.
Maybe this way Junior will be less likely to have meltdowns in the first place.

Right but please keep in mind that the "sleep in" part only works for those who actually want to sleep in and who are able to get FP+ for times that allow them to sleep in.

If I'm smart, I'm going to be there for opening and still get FP+ return times for later "sleep in" times when the parks are more crowded. Effectively, I could mess with someone who wanted to sleep in.

Unlike FP, with FP+, Disney is distributing FP+ return times right from opening. If the only FP+ return time is 9 - 10 AM, I'm still going to go with it even if I wanted to sleep in since it's still better than waiting 120+ minutes for TSM at 11 AM.

In general, there will be more demand for "good" return times for "good" attractions but if these are gone, many guests will still end up selecting what's available, even if they wanted to sleep in.

Only Uni's system of unlimited Express Passes for onsite guests assures that anyone who wants to sleep in actually can sleep in. Uni has 1/12th the number of onsite guests so they can offer it to their existing Deluxe Resort guests. (Uni's new hotels will be targeted for the Moderate and Value Resort market and those will have to pay for Express Pass.) WDW never will be able to offer what Uni can because of the number of onsite resort rooms. Between Deluxe and DVC guests alone, WDW has about 4 time the number of onsite guests as Uni so it's not something they could offer even to those guests. WDW simply doesn't have the ride capacity at 3 of its 4 parks to handle potentially tens-of-thousands of guests with unlimited FastPass.

 

[notnothin]

According the the original poster in this thread, the original issue was that there were NO paper fastpasses available that day:


And I don't think that has continued - just gone earlier than they used to be, now that FP+ has been taking some of the slots.



Unless I missed something today.

Sorry, I should have clarified that statement. TSMM ran out early again and Soarin' / TT were not far behind.

 

[WendyTinkerbell]

When we were there on 10/20, TSMM was out of paper fastpasses around 9:30. There was the usual line to get the FPs and cast members at the end saying the return time and that people in line "may" get a FP. It's amazing how quick the return time increased. By the time we walked by the end of the line to the actual times on the machines, it had gone up an hour.