No fastpasses available today?

[RSoxNo1]

That's fine.. those are what we call 'observations' - they alone don't tell you WHY. Len gave you observations on FP availability - not the reasons behind them or explaining the lines.

Think about it.. if it's actually low to average crowds (which I question in itself given the reports the week prior).. why are the lines long everywhere? FP/FP+ do not create more people! And contrary to ford91's theory - Disney is not sending the attractions out empty. So what does that tell you? Less bodies.. same capacity... and somehow waits are up? That doesn't add up. So what's changed? If you believe your own song about how low the crowds really are.. that only leaves reduced attraction capacity. FP+ can't be responsible for that wait increase everywhere.. and if only a fraction of guests can get FP+ and they are limited to ~3 in a single park.. how is it this fraction of an audience is somehow dominating all lines in multiple parks? The theories don't add up.

Could FP availability be shunted compared to the past? Certainly - but that wouldn't explain the huge increases in lines. And there aren't enough FP+ eligible people to be sucking up all the FPs that used to be offered.. so it can't be FP+ alone causing this.

And that's the point... you are observing the OUTCOMES of Disney's actions but you can't actually pinpoint what/why they've changed.. and the consequences as postulated don't add up. Yet people are ready to blame its all the FP+ users...

Nevermind it could be direct actions by Disney like reducing FP allotments period.. and reducing attraction capacity by reducing staffing.

Ridership is fixed but the distribution of Fastpass+ is not. That's why Fastpasses are running out quicker. I think it's also reasonable to assume that because Fastpasses are now being distributed where they weren't needed before, standby lines are increasing on attractions that didn't previously require it.

Having said all that, let's say that 17 million people visited MK last year, and they all averaged waiting 6 hours in line. That means that guests spent 102,000,000 hours waiting in line last year. If we're to believe that wait times have increased 33% on standby, then total wait time would be 136,000,000 hours. I think like you, it's unrealistic to assume that wait times are up solely because of Fastpass+. It is probably a combination of increased attendance as well as Fastpass+. The other explanation is reduced attraction capacity, but that seems to be isolated to Pirates of the Caribbean due to the issues with new boats.

The longer wait times are a function of a few things, but the biggest of which is Fastpass+. I have yet to hear anyone come up with anything remotely convincing that the new Fastpass distribution rules are beneficial. They are grounded in deceit, and Jay Rasulo has stated that the reason behind it is so people won't be tempted by other Orlando offerings. Disney has conceded that other offerings are "tempting" around the Orlando area and rather than building offerings that are superior they're trying to hide people from the other options.

 

[71jason]

100% correct. That's why FastPass is popular on Disney Fan sites even though it does not (can not) increase capacity; it lets certain people (in certain circumstances) beat the system at the expense of others. The system has now been changed; they don't know how to beat it immediately and they are uncertain if it is even possible to exploit to their advantage (this second concern is foolish - every set of rules is exploitable, just look at the disability cards).

Agreed that anyone who thinks board addicts and lifestylers won't find a way to game this system is delusional. It may take a month or two, but sooner or later the majority of E-ticket FPs will go to power-users.

 

[flynnibus]

Ridership is fixed but the distribution of Fastpass+ is not. That's why Fastpasses are running out quicker

Ride counts are NOT fixed - they are a function of the vehicles and dispatch. It's why training and quality of crew is so important to optimizing ride capacity. They are only fixed on fixed systems like omnimovers.

The distribution of FP.. and the ratio of that and FP+ to ride capacity.. none of these are fixed.

I think it's also reasonable to assume that because Fastpasses are now being distributed where they weren't needed before, standby lines are increasing on attractions that didn't previously require it.

Only if there are BODIES IN FRONT OF YOU. Just adding FP doesn't increase waits... people actually need to take that FP and use it. And in doing so, they aren't somewhere else. So again.. without actual people in the park, FP nor FP+ can't be increasing waits everywhere. In addition, you gloss over how many people actually have FP+ and their limits.

The longer wait times are a function of a few things, but the biggest of which is Fastpass+

A conclusion you keep leaping to without anything to substantiate it. Simply changing the distribution of FP in general can have the same effect.

The theory people including yourself are putting for that
- crowds are down
- there are less FPs
- but now there is FP+ so all lines are up

Just mathematically does not make sense. This could make sense in narrow slices, but it doesn't hold up to apply across the board. You're got a smaller audience that can use FP+... they can use it LESS.. AND crowds are down.. yet somehow there are more bodies on the attractions? Does not add up.

There are other factors in play you aren't accounting for. IMO the most likely suspect that staffing is the major player. Its the only thing besides higher crowds that can have the effect of increasing waits everywhere at the same time.

Are there operational changes responsible? Almost have to be... are they motivated by the companies shift to their new model including FP+? Most likely... Does that mean it's because of FP+ users? No

 

[71jason]

It's F&W dude.. and leading into holloween. It's not the dead time people think it is anymore.

So Food & WIne is full of drunks ... who also like to go over to the one park where they can't buy booze?

And what kids get out for Halloween? If anything, availability of MNSSHP should drive down day crowds a bit.

Sorry, not buying that October is the new Christmas week for MK and DHS. May be a slight uptick from Columbus Day and some of the (staggered) FL school service days, but this isn't even Jersey Week or Mardi Gras.

 

[flynnibus]

OK judge Flynni......I agree with what you say. So what is it? Whats your OPINION why the queues are inflated?

My guess on lines? Crowds vs operational levels.
My guess on FP running out? Probably less given out period.

The problem is people are blurring 'FP running out' and 'lines are long' and swapping back and forth as if they are the same symptom or same cause. They are not intrinsically linked. Earlier in the thread people were like 'no FPs available... the park is useless!'.

You also just cant dismiss Lenesta and the other reports. I think we can give Lenesta the benefit of the doubt and call his "observation" more of an educated analysis? IMO

Go back and read what he actually posted. He posted what was happening with FP availability... not more than that.

It's impossible for us to say what is actually happening inside Disney's operations by simply watching FP availability alone. You also have to accept that what is today, may not be tomorrow. This is all software Disney can change on a whim and TELL NONE OF US. All we can do is watch the results of the changes and try to adapt to the results and hope for predictability.

I would very much expect some of this to be experimentation by the company. They control all the strings.. the only thing they don't control outright is the crowd or personal desire to ride something.. those they can only influence behavior.

 

[flynnibus]

So Food & WIne is full of drunks ... who also like to go over to the one park where they can't buy booze?

The stats being relayed here have been mostly DHS and Future World.. both of which are wet parks.

Sorry, not buying that October is the new Christmas week for MK and DHS. May be a slight uptick from Columbus Day and some of the (staggered) FL school service days, but this isn't even Jersey Week or Mardi Gras.

I never made that claim... the only claim was that some think this is dead-time.. something the Trip reports of the last two-three weeks have been complaining 180 degrees the OPPOSITE. Just go back and find all the TRs that start out with 'we thought this was a dead time.. boy we were wrong!' and people asking when the new dead period is. All of that before this thread started.

 

[Ray B]

That would be a silver lining for me if it works out. I'm always going to be at a park at rope drop hitting headline/major attractions. You can really get a lot done in the first hour or two! My FP+ reservations will (to the extent available) be for headliners in my second park of the day, post-afternoon break.

I think this is how to somewhat get around the system. The biggest problem with it is that you have to waste time traveling between parks. My plan is rope drop at AK since it is a half day park and then over to HS for the afternoon using my FP+ for TSMM, RnR and ToT.

 

[merry68]

Our FP+ experience was fine. What did make me wanna bang my head into the wall today? Other guests who think having a MB equals FOTL! Honestly, we watched a family jumping the chains after the 2nd FP+ machine in Star Tours because they HAD to be in the FP line, they had the bands.

At GMR, same thing happened, and even more weird was the CM greeting is by name. So far no other CMs have done a personal greeting like that.

It seems that queues which merge are confusing MB guests who appear entitled to race ahead of everyone else.

We are a bit disappointed as the rides we used to consider walkon with 10min waits now have solid 20-25min waits. And we did a few non E ticket rides to see how it worked with FP+ with those types of rides.

Then we came upon a family who was angry. They didn't want to wait 50min for ToT and they didn't understand the bands and why folks were getting in with a band.

TSM was interesting. Paper FP went quick and was gone before 10. Availability existed on MDE/FP+ but was very late tonite. Then that option did disappear and shows standby only. I observed folks who wanted a TSM pass and clearly had no clue about how quickly they go. I also noticed more Disney security strolling the park today.

My Hunger Games tracker band is off for now.

I think TDO made a boo boo. I'm a planner but this is too much. If it gets too crazy once this system is official, I think our WDW trips will be cut back.

And for me, Disney wifi still sucks, did better on AT&T LTE.

I can't begin to figure out the how or the why behind the ride reservation system. There are unknown variables the public will not know and I guess we won't see where WDW is headed until the Big TDO Honchos want to announce it.

This is our 3rd trip down this year. What do we wish for? What most say here- put money into ride maintenance and new rides, not talking AK Pandora's Disastrous Box.

 

[John]

Our FP+ experience was fine. What did make me wanna bang my head into the wall today? Other guests who think having a MB equals FOTL! Honestly, we watched a family jumping the chains after the 2nd FP+ machine in Star Tours because they HAD to be in the FP line, they had the bands.

At GMR, same thing happened, and even more weird was the CM greeting is by name. So far no other CMs have done a personal greeting like that.

It seems that queues which merge are confusing MB guests who appear entitled to race ahead of everyone else.

We are a bit disappointed as the rides we used to consider walkon with 10min waits now have solid 20-25min waits. And we did a few non E ticket rides to see how it worked with FP+ with those types of rides.

Then we came upon a family who was angry. They didn't want to wait 50min for ToT and they didn't understand the bands and why folks were getting in with a band.

TSM was interesting. Paper FP went quick and was gone before 10. Availability existed on MDE/FP+ but was very late tonite. Then that option did disappear and shows standby only. I observed folks who wanted a TSM pass and clearly had no clue about how quickly they go. I also noticed more Disney security strolling the park today.

My Hunger Games tracker band is off for now.

I think TDO made a boo boo. I'm a planner but this is too much. If it gets too crazy once this system is official, I think our WDW trips will be cut back.

And for me, Disney wifi still sucks, did better on AT&T LTE.

I can't begin to figure out the how or the why behind the ride reservation system. There are unknown variables the public will not know and I guess we won't see where WDW is headed until the Big TDO Honchos want to announce it.

This is our 3rd trip down this year. What do we wish for? What most say here- put money into ride maintenance and new rides, not talking AK Pandora's Disastrous Box.

Not being contrary are we? Your first line....."our FP+ experience was fine" you then proceed to tell us other wise. Which is it?

 

[Figments Friend]

-

You know....

There is this great Disney Theme Park over on the other coast that does not have all this MM+/FP+ nonsense...
.....and probably will not have it for some time ( if ever..hopefully).

Yeah, it's a nice little Park started by some Old Guy,
and although it is pretty popular and thousands visit every day, you do not need to reserve things months in advance.
You walk in, decide what to do, and just DO IT.
Quite a nice experience that is.

I recommend a visit.
You might have heard of it...

It's called 'Disneyland'.



Go there and enjoy!

 

[merry68]

Not being contrary are we? Your first line....."our FP+ experience was fine" you then proceed to tell us other wise. Which is it?

No I'm not contrary, nor do I appreciate that either.

We had no tech glitches with FP+. That was what I meant with it being fine- we used it and we didn't get hung up trying to get things fixed. There were other people we passed who we're having apparent problems with the ride reservation system.

Sorry I wasn't more clear, it's not easy typing on a phone.

 

[tookydo]

I've been following this thread for awhile. I just returned from a trip (9/20-9/29) and used the MB's and FP+; no complaints here. We liked it; but we were also accessing the paper fastpasses which made a big difference. Not sure if I would feel the same if we were limited to 3 per day. I did not notice paper fastpasses being gone as quickly as some are seeing now, however, I did watch the time for TSMM change at a pretty rapid pace and NO ONE was using the fastpass machines at the time. Something is definitely different.

Something else that made me wonder about this whole system....I am a teacher and I just helped my principal customize and order MBs, link her account with her son, and start the process of booking her fastpasses. She said that I also needed to help another colleague who was going the week before she was. No problem I said. Turns out he is staying off site. I really couldn't help him but to suggest that he get to rope drop and do the headliners first thing. If the paper fastpasses, as reported by some, are running out that early, I have a sinking feeling that each of my colleagues will have a completely different experience.

 

[crispy]

I have a picture of yesterday's line to GET fastpasses for TSMM when they opened the machines at 9am (the park opened at 8am for EMH). There were at least 200 to 300 people in line to get a fastpass. Just crazy!

 

[Ray B]

Turns out he is staying off site. I really couldn't help him but to suggest that he get to rope drop and do the headliners first thing. If the paper fastpasses, as reported by some, are running out that early, I have a sinking feeling that each of my colleagues will have a completely different experience.

I know this is probably on the site somewhere but can't possibly read all the posts in all the threads. Will people staying offsite ever have access to Magic Bands and FP+

 

[tookydo]

I know this is probably on the site somewhere but can't possibly read all the posts in all the threads. Will people staying offsite ever have access to Magic Bands and FP+

No one really knows; it's all speculation right now.

 

[luv]

I know this is probably on the site somewhere but can't possibly read all the posts in all the threads. Will people staying offsite ever have access to Magic Bands and FP+

We don't know. Disney hasn't said it won't be available to them, but they also haven't "tested" it with anyone offsite.

Some of us are convinced it will be available to offsite guests. Some of us (like me, lol) are convinced it won't be.

But none of us know for sure until Disney makes some announcement that it has been officially rolled out, assuming they do. They could just go from calling it "testing" to no longer calling it a test and just have it in place with no real announcement.

 

[JenniferS]

We don't know. Disney hasn't said it won't be available to them, but they also haven't "tested" it with anyone offsite.

Some of us are convinced it will be available to offsite guests. Some of us (like me, lol) are convinced it won't be.

But none of us know for sure until Disney makes some announcement that it has been officially rolled out, assuming they do. They could just go from calling it "testing" to no longer calling it a test and just have it in place with no real announcement.

Well then, Disney better start building some more resorts (I jest!) because who the heck would EVER visit WDW if they were not an on-site guest. Except for 3 or 4 weeks a year, you will never get to ride Soarin', TT, TSMM, ToT or RnRC if you are just a casual day visitor.

Too bad there are no other theme parks to visit or attractions to see in Central Florida.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I know this is probably on the site somewhere but can't possibly read all the posts in all the threads. Will people staying offsite ever have access to Magic Bands and FP+

The last information publically available (from several months ago) was that Disney would offer FP+ to all guests but that MagicBands would be an upsell to offsite guests.

Disney has stated that onsite guests would be able to reserve their FP+ experiences at 60 days plus 10 days from the start of the stay. Disney has never publically stated how far in advance offsite guests would be able to reserve their FP+ experiences.

Disney's original plans involved forcing guests to pick from groups, requiring those testing the system to select some lesser attractions. After overwhelmingly negative feedback, Disney opened FP+ selection to any 3 attractions within one park. Assuming this remains in place, anyone in a position to make their FP+ selections early will have a significant advantage.

WDW's problem at 3 of its 4 theme parks is ride capacity. It simply doesn't have enough high-capacity E ticket attractions at Epcot, DHS, and DAK. Allowing guests to pick any 3 attractions at those parks means that there will be many WDW (presumably offsite) guests who will be shut out of headliner attractions.

FP+ has the potential to drive onsite occupancy rates back up to historic levels while simultaneously driving away vacationers not staying at WDW resorts.

With Universal publically announcing plans to become "a family destination in and of itself, not an add-on attraction for somebody who’s spent three or four days someplace else", IMHO, corporate Disney is playing with fire.

The initial plans to force guests to pick from groups had the potential to more evenly distribute FP+ selections, somewhat placating offsite guests, even if onsite guests had a booking advantage. If offsite guests have no reasonable chance of obtaining FP+ selections for attractions such as TSM, EE, and Soarin', WDW could experience an appreciable decline in attendance at 3 of its 4 theme parks. Only the Magic Kingdom has a sufficient number of popular attractions to keep most guests happy.

Again, corporate Disney is playing with fire and might get burned.

 

[flynnibus]

Sorry, not buying that October is the new Christmas week for MK and DHS. May be a slight uptick from Columbus Day and some of the (staggered) FL school service days, but this isn't even Jersey Week or Mardi Gras.

Try this thread for some crowd opinions... - http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/so-crowded-right-now.875274/

 

[muteki]

You're absolutely right, but case in point - If I'm getting a better experience in California, I'm going there instead.

When looking purely at the attraction offerings and how you can get most of the same or in some cases better or more experiences in CA, for the cost of two day tickets for two parks a 2 minute walk apart, you would have to be crazy not to go.