NextGen / FP+ / Magic Band. The official truth starts to appear

[baylaketower]

Total FP+ needed per park per day based on the idea of 1 e-ticket FP+ and 2 other rides.

Magic Kingdom = 46,500 e-ticket FP+ and 93,000 other FP+
Hollywood Studios = 27,000 e-ticket FP+ and 54,000 other FP+
Animal Kingdom = 27,000 e-ticket FP+ and 54,000 other FP+
Epcot + 27,000 e-ticket FP+ and 54,000 other FP+

Total FP+ available from each park based on 60% FP+ distribution:
Magic Kingdom (14 hours) = 80,000 e-ticket and 128,000 other FP+
Hollywood Studios = (13 hours) = 42,500 e-ticket and 60,000 other FP+
Animal Kingdom (10 hours) = 37,800 e-ticket and 46,000 other FP+
Epcot (10 hours) = 40,800 e-ticket and 62,500 other FP+

Total Surplus e-ticket FP+ per day = 72,000
Total Surplus other FP+ per day = 41,000

Total surplus = 113,000 Fastpasses.

If Disney overbooks 10% for no-shows that would add 11,000 more and every morning extra magic hour adds more capacity. 125,000 extra FP a day on average.

How could those extra be "used"?

1. Surprise and Delight sent to people throughout the day.
2. Incentives for Deluxe guests.
3. They could be sold for $5.00 a pop (100,000 a day would equal $182,000,000 a year).
4. They could make them available for Free during the day first come first serve.

What they can't do is...
Add 1 more to everybody's pile. It really looks like 3 is the magic number. 4 would bust the system.

UNLESS - they build more rides!
*This info is from bcrook on DisBoards. Special thanks!*​

 

[ParentsOf4]

I'm kind of interested in this, but these numbers just don't seem right, I could be wrong, but they seem kind of high. I would be curious how the OP arrived at these.

I'll just try and break it down for Magic Kingdom.
The average daily attendance at MK for 2011 was around 32,500, based on THEA's estimate of 17.14 million guests.
Based on travel estimates, Disney hotels average about 80-82% occupancy rates in their 27,790 rooms, which (if my math is correct), means that roughly 22,500 rooms are filled with an average of 2.8 guests per room.

Estimated no. of guests at MK in 2011: 17,000,000
Average per day: 46,500

Number of Disney owned hotel rooms: 27,790
Average occupancy : 81%
Average no. of rooms occupied: 22,500
Average no. of guests per room: 2.8
Average no. of guests in Disney hotel rooms: 63,000
Estimate of guests from Disney hotel rooms in MK: 17,000 (Avg of hotel guests / 4 parks, inflated for most popular park)

So, we can guesstimate that roughly 17,000 people who are staying in a Disney owned hotel, will be in MK on a given day, and using FP+.

The way Disney would appear to be running the FP+ program is similar to the way they did the Million Dreams FastPass giveaways. Basically, they give you the option of allocating or using a Fastpass on one E-ticket, one or two C/D tickets, then one or two A-C tickets. You would have a total of 4 Fastpasses you could use, but they're broken down by the attraction type. Higher value attractions, which are higher demand, are limited to just one, or maybe two on rare occasions.

This would mean, those 17,000 guests, would potentially be acquiring 68,000 FP+s (4 * 17,000), but, they're still only going to be able to use 1 FP+ each for 1 one of the top attractions. Let's just say the following attractions are category 1 (D/E):

• Space Mountain
• Splash Mountain
• Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
• Mickey's Philharmagic
• Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin
• Peter Pan's Flight
• Jungle Cruise

Advanced FP+s would average out to be 2400 per attraction, based on the above listed (potential) 17,000 guests each being able to acquire one of FP+ for one of these attraction. It's safe to assume that some would be higher than that, but probably not much more than 3,000. Most all of the attractions listed though have a daily capacity throughput of more than 10,000 in 8 hours, so, in theory, it shouldn't pose a huge issue.

Note: I'm not claiming that I know better than the OP, I'm just showing my own numbers based on what I've been able to find, and using my own math, which I will readily admit, might be inaccurate.

A few data points to consider:

• 81% occupancy was for Q1 (Oct-to-Dec). Total occupancy was 79% for the entire previous year.
• Doesn't WDW now have over 30,000 rooms?
• Capacity on attractions such as Peter Pan, Soarin', Toy Story Mania, etc. are more on this 1200-1300 per hour range. At 2000 guests per hour, Expedition Everest is supposed to be one of the best, but I've seen that number disputed.

I'm unsure what assumptions you've built into the statement "Advanced FP+s would average out to be 2400 per attraction". For example, Peter Pan's capacity is about 1200/hour. Assume a 13-hour day and that's 15,600. Assume a 60% allocation to FP+ and that's slightly over 9000 FP+ per day for Peter Pan. Even if they hold back a number for day guests, 2400 per attraction seems low.

I don't think it's accurate to suggest all WDW onsite guest visit the theme parks every day. Some will shop, some will visit the water parks, some will simply relax, while others will visit non-Disney destinations including The Boy Who Won't Be Named.

A big part of TDO's frustration is that they are having a more difficult time keeping their onsite guests on site. The number of onsite guests not visiting a WDW theme park every day of their stay has been increasing since 2010. I'm not sure, but I think there was a significant theme park development in 2010.

One way FP+ might improve that number is by providing WDW's onsite guests with FP+ on every day of their visit. I think of it this way: I can either visit WDW where I have at least 3 guaranteed FP+ for the attractions that I selected or I can travel up I-4 and stand in lines at Universal. It will be interesting to watch if FP+ actually helps keep onsite guests at WDW.

Overall, the "3 FP+ per guest" limit shouldn't be too much of an issue at MK, which has a lot of attractions. It could be a much bigger issue at the other theme parks.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Personally I understand the pros and cons of have the FP+ and sticking with the normal FP that are currently being used, but at the end of the day does any of it really matter? Sure I want to be able to ride everything 9 times in every park in a 4 day vacation, but that will never happen. What happened to Disney being about the magic and being surrounded by children that are experiencing all of this for the first time?

That's the nostalgia formula Disney has been using at WDW for decades. It worked pretty well when inflation-adjusted prices were lower, when maintenance was better, and when attractions were added on a regular basis. Now that TDO isn't doing any of those anymore, that old nostalgia formula isn't working so well.

Go figure, people want more than nostalgia when they are being asked to pay thousands of dollars for a vacation. Pesky customers, actually expecting to get their money's worth.

I'm not asking for more; I'm simply asking WDW to stop giving us less.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Exactly, FP+ doesn't increase ride capacity and isn't any different than today. Yet consider Iger's words:

How does FP+ do that? It doesn't. We still have the same capacity issues we have with today's FP. FP+ solves nothing.

Yet Iger & co. are advertising this $1.5B boondoggle to the public as an amazing new experience, cynically acting as if slapping a "new & improved" label on something actually makes it new and improved. Iger is hoping his "guests" are too dimwitted to recognize false advertising and will throw more money his way.

FP+ won't fail exactly because it's essentially the same system that's been in use for 13 years, the main difference being is that we'll now have to scramble 60 days before we arrive to get FP+ rather than being present at the rope drop. It's helps Disney plan their resources but it doesn't help their "guests" at all. MM+ was created for Disney, not for us.

P.S. I realize you were not defending FP+. My earlier post was only to suggest why FP+ doesn't work as advertised.

Increasing attraction capacity (3rd theater on Soarin') was actually one of the initial ways Fastpass+ was proposed.

 

[Bork Bork]

Yeah that's right, what if you don't want a scratchy, sweaty wristband on your wrist all day? Can you get it as a lanyard instead?

How long before the first teenager puts it on his belt loop so he can thrust his hips at Mickey's light up head? It would at least keep it off the wrist...

 

[RSoxNo1]

A few data points to consider:

• 81% occupancy was for Q1 (Oct-to-Dec). Total occupancy was 79% for the entire previous year.
• Doesn't WDW now have over 30,000 rooms?
• Capacity on attractions such as Peter Pan, Soarin', Toy Story Mania, etc. are more on this 1200-1300 per hour range. At 2000 guests per hour, Expedition Everest is supposed to be one of the best, but I've seen that number disputed.

I'm unsure what assumptions you've built into the statement "Advanced FP+s would average out to be 2400 per attraction". For example, Peter Pan's capacity is about 1200/hour. Assume a 13-hour day and that's 15,600. Assume a 60% allocation to FP+ and that's slightly over 9000 FP+ per day for Peter Pan. Even if they hold back a number for day guests, 2400 per attraction seems low.

I don't think it's accurate to suggest all WDW onsite guest visit the theme parks every day. Some will shop, some will visit the water parks, some will simply relax, while others will visit non-Disney destinations including The Boy Who Won't Be Named.

A big part of TDO's frustration is that they are having a more difficult time keeping their onsite guests on site. The number of onsite guests not visiting a WDW theme park every day of their stay has been increasing since 2010. I'm not sure, but I think there was a significant theme park development in 2010.

One way FP+ might improve that number is by providing WDW's onsite guests with FP+ on every day of their visit. I think of it this way: I can either visit WDW where I have at least 3 guaranteed FP+ for the attractions that I selected or I can travel up I-4 and stand in lines at Universal. It will be interesting to watch if FP+ actually helps keep onsite guests at WDW.

Overall, the "3 FP+ per guest" limit shouldn't be too much of an issue at MK, which has a lot of attractions. It could be a much bigger issue at the other theme parks.

This should really be limited to one attraction per day, and everything else should be available once you're in the park at the same level of distribution. Make it an advantage for hotel guests, but limit availability at marquee attractions, where no more than 25% of a day's available fastpass distribution can be booked in advance. This won't help the issue at TSMM and to a lesser extent Soarin', but it will be less of a hit. More importantly, the biggest issue with those two attractions is the lack of other high demand attractions in those parks.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

A few data points to consider:

• 81% occupancy was for Q1 (Oct-to-Dec). Total occupancy was 79% for the entire previous year.
• Doesn't WDW now have over 30,000 rooms?
• Capacity on attractions such as Peter Pan, Soarin', Toy Story Mania, etc. are more on this 1200-1300 per hour range. At 2000 guests per hour, Expedition Everest is supposed to be one of the best, but I've seen that number disputed.

I'm unsure what assumptions you've built into the statement "Advanced FP+s would average out to be 2400 per attraction". For example, Peter Pan's capacity is about 1200/hour. Assume a 13-hour day and that's 15,600. Assume a 60% allocation to FP+ and that's slightly over 9000 FP+ per day for Peter Pan. Even if they hold back a number for day guests, 2400 per attraction seems low.


I don't think it's accurate to suggest all WDW onsite guest visit the theme parks every day. Some will shop, some will visit the water parks, some will simply relax, while others will visit non-Disney destinations including The Boy Who Won't Be Named.

A big part of TDO's frustration is that they are having a more difficult time keeping their onsite guests on site. The number of onsite guests not visiting a WDW theme park every day of their stay has been increasing since 2010. I'm not sure, but I think there was a significant theme park development in 2010.

One way FP+ might improve that number is by providing WDW's onsite guests with FP+ on every day of their visit. I think of it this way: I can either visit WDW where I have at least 3 guaranteed FP+ for the attractions that I selected or I can travel up I-4 and stand in lines at Universal. It will be interesting to watch if FP+ actually helps keep onsite guests at WDW.

Overall, the "3 FP+ per guest" limit shouldn't be too much of an issue at MK, which has a lot of attractions. It could be a much bigger issue at the other theme parks.

I think that one of the unintended consequences of this program combined with Universal's introduction of an 1800 room "value" family suites resort is that people will lop entire days/nights off of their MAGICAL stays to spend days/nights at Universal. Particularly with the lack of anything new and compelling at WDW and Universal building a lot of new stuff.

 

[J03Y]

i don't think reserving things and getting fastpasses in advanced enhances your experience though ugh. why plan your vacation to the exact second that takes the fun out of it.

 

[GrumpyFan]

A few data points to consider:

• 81% occupancy was for Q1 (Oct-to-Dec). Total occupancy was 79% for the entire previous year.
• Doesn't WDW now have over 30,000 rooms?
• Capacity on attractions such as Peter Pan, Soarin', Toy Story Mania, etc. are more on this 1200-1300 per hour range. At 2000 guests per hour, Expedition Everest is supposed to be one of the best, but I've seen that number disputed.

• I had the last quarter number, but not last year average
• The best I counted, was 27,790 (23,882 hotel + 3908 DVC) which includes all WDW managed rooms, but if you include Swan/Dolphin and Shades of Green, the number is 30,641 but I'm not sure if those guests will have access to FP+ advanced reservations
• I wasn't counting hourly capacity, nor hourly Fastpass', just figuring an 8 hour theoretical (ball park)

I'm unsure what assumptions you've built into the statement "Advanced FP+s would average out to be 2400 per attraction". For example, Peter Pan's capacity is about 1200/hour. Assume a 13-hour day and that's 15,600. Assume a 60% allocation to FP+ and that's slightly over 9000 FP+ per day for Peter Pan. Even if they hold back a number for day guests, 2400 per attraction seems low.

The 2400 per attraction is based on an expected 17,000 resort guests being at MK, then dividing the number of attractions available for that category (7). This gives a rough idea of how many advanced (reserved) FastPass+ might have been used for one of those attractions for that day. Like I said, some would probably be more, and others less.
17,000 / 7 = 2,428

The actual pre-reserved FastPass+ for a single day, might look like:

• Space Mountain - 3100
• Splash Mountain - 2800
• Big Thunder Mountain Railroad - 2500
• Mickey's Philharmagic - 2300
• Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin - 2300
• Peter Pan's Flight - 2000
• Jungle Cruise - 2000

Totaling up to 17,000. Now, this assumes that everybody staying on property will have taken advantage of the FP+, which of course is probably far-fetched, but it's just presented as a possible scenario for how the Advanced FP+ reservations might work, and how many FP+ or Standby riders might still be able to ride for the day. As you can see, it still leaves a lot of spots/seats available for other guests who might not have the advanced FP+ reservation option. Especially if you just consider parks hours of 9am - 9pm averages the distribution of the FP+ riders on Space Mountain around 260 guests per hour (3100 / 12 hrs = 258).
Again, these are all just hypothetical scenarios of how things might work, and the actual numbers could be nowhere near, but I suspect they are closely representative.

I don't think it's accurate to suggest all WDW onsite guest visit the theme parks every day. Some will shop, some will visit the water parks, some will simply relax, while others will visit non-Disney destinations including The Boy Who Won't Be Named.

A big part of TDO's frustration is that they are having a more difficult time keeping their onsite guests on site. The number of onsite guests not visiting a WDW theme park every day of their stay has been increasing since 2010. I'm not sure, but I think there was a significant theme park development in 2010.

One way FP+ might improve that number is by providing WDW's onsite guests with FP+ on every day of their visit. I think of it this way: I can either visit WDW where I have at least 3 guaranteed FP+ for the attractions that I selected or I can travel up I-4 and stand in lines at Universal. It will be interesting to watch if FP+ actually helps keep onsite guests at WDW.

Indeed, 17,000 is an inflated number, and assumes a lot of those resort guests will visit the park and will utilize the FP+ system.
One big advantage that FP+ helps TDO with is day-to-day and future planning for staffing and crowd levels. When people make an advance FP+ reservation, TDO can then more accurately plan for the day with appropriate CMs and events to entertain and sustain guest satisfaction levels.

 

[Weather_Lady]

I've always believed that, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." So although the details (as we know them so far) of Fastpass Plus are incomplete and don't thrill me in the least, I decided to sit down last night, take a look at my family's park touring plans from October, and see just how we'll have to switch things up when Fastpass Plus swoops in to tear our beloved magic "kiosks of no waiting" away.

While I initially thought the change was mostly going to hurt families like mine (uber-planner commandos who use Fastpass as a large part of their touring strategy), I now realize that the people who may be hurt the most (under the limited "facts" we have in hand) are those who prefer not to, or just aren't able to, plan ahead (although Disney can certainly account for that, if it ends up that they're holding back FP+ slots for last-minute guests ).

Here's why. My family typically used 5 or 6 Fastpasses a day, 2 or 3 for the purpose of experiencing a favorite attraction more than once in a day, and 2 or 3 for the purpose of experiencing a headline attraction for the first/only time without a long wait, at a time of day with peak crowds. We arrive at rope drop, leave at lunchtime, and return to a park around 4pm-8:30pm. (The kids are small, so we don't keep them up late until the last night.)

As far as I can tell from reviewing our touring plans, having 2 or 3 fewer Fastpasses in a day is not going to crimp our style too much. In fact, it may make touring a little easier on the feet, by virtue of the fact that we no longer need a Fastpass runner, and don't need to carefully time any visits to Fastpass kiosks -- or even visit them multiple times -- to ensure that we get a Fastpass with a convenient return window. Yes, we won't be able to get as many, but we can compensate for that by concentrating more exclusively on headliners in that precious hour or two after rope drop, and during parades. After removing our Fastpass runner steps, designating three attractions to Fastpass for each day (all in the same park, and assuming Disney won't let you pick three biggies on the same day, e.g., the Mountains in MK, or Soarin'/Test Track/Mission:Space in Epcot), and moving any remaining headliners to the hour after rope drop, the amount of attractions we're covering in a day won't change overmuch. We'll do quite a bit less criss-crossing of parks later in the day, because, for example, while we're playing around in Dinoland at AK, we'll know that our Kilimanjaro Safaris virtual FP is made and waiting for us -- we don't have to make the trek to go get it, spend 90 minutes wandering around wildlife trails in 90-degree heat, killing time and seeing nothing more interesting than some native birds while walking for so long that our daughter literally blows out her sneaker, track down a Disney trading pin for the "sole" purpose of cobbling her shoe together, and then limp back to Kilimanjaro Safaris, only to be literally trampled in line by a blind man whose park touring strategy involved poking people's ankles with his stick to determine their location, and then purposely running them down while his companions step ahead of the prostrate victim in line and mumble in accusing tones, "He couldn't see you." Not that we've personally had that happen to us or anything...

We like to park hop, and we can still do that. We'd just have to use the early morning advantage to get to the "big" attractions in our "a.m." park before the lines get out of hand, and save the Fastpasses to overcome afternoon/evening crowds in our "p.m." park. (The fact is, though, we're more likely to plan differently and end the Park hopping altogether - not being able to get Fastpasses for more than one park really does vitiate my incentive to go more than one place, and it will instantly save us $200+.) We're going to spend a little more time in standby lines, guaranteed -- but probably not much more than we're saving by not having to send someone ahead to gather Fastpasses -- and we'll probably lose one or two "repeat" attractions per day ("Sorry, Son, but you're going to have to content yourself with two rides on Splash Mountain today instead of three. Don't cry, boy -- I know it's tough, but these are the kinds of first world problems a man has to endure.")

Of course, there are still many unanswered questions. I'm assuming that when I go to arrange Fastpasses 180 days (edit: 60 days) out, I'm going to be able to get the ones I want, close to the time I want. Will there be enough availability to ensure that? What about the people who won't be sitting at their computer at the break of dawn, 180 days (edit: 60 days, but still ridiculous) out? How practical or convenient will the in-park MyMagic+ kiosks be, and what kind of availability will there be for new or changed fastpasses on the day of a visit? How will the system compensate if an attraction is "down" during a fastpass return window?

Still, after taking a good hard look at how Fastpass+ is likely to change my family's touring strategy, I still don't see it as a billion-dollar improvement, or an improvement at all, but I'm breathing easier. Which, considering the fact that there's still so much we don't know, I probably should have been doing all along. But I obsess...

 

[Tinkerbell 8]

I've always believed that, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." So although the details (as we know them so far) of Fastpass Plus are incomplete and don't thrill me in the least, I decided to sit down last night, take a look at my family's park touring plans from October, and see just how we'll have to switch things up when Fastpass Plus swoops in to tear our beloved magic "kiosks of no waiting" away.

While I initially thought the change was mostly going to hurt families like mine (uber-planner commandos who use Fastpass as a large part of their touring strategy), I now realize that the people who may be hurt the most (under the limited "facts" we have in hand) are those who prefer not to, or just aren't able to, plan ahead (although Disney can certainly account for that, if it ends up that they're holding back FP+ slots for last-minute guests ).

Here's why. My family typically used 5 or 6 Fastpasses a day, 2 or 3 for the purpose of experiencing a favorite attraction more than once in a day, and 2 or 3 for the purpose of experiencing a headline attraction for the first/only time without a long wait, at a time of day with peak crowds. We arrive at rope drop, leave at lunchtime, and return to a park around 4pm-8:30pm. (The kids are small, so we don't keep them up late until the last night.)

As far as I can tell from reviewing our touring plans, having 2 or 3 fewer Fastpasses in a day is not going to crimp our style too much. In fact, it may make touring a little easier on the feet, by virtue of the fact that we no longer need a Fastpass runner, and don't need to carefully time any visits to Fastpass kiosks -- or even visit them multiple times -- to ensure that we get a Fastpass with a convenient return window. Yes, we won't be able to get as many, but we can compensate for that by concentrating more exclusively on headliners in that precious hour or two after rope drop, and during parades. After removing our Fastpass runner steps, designating three attractions to Fastpass for each day (all in the same park, and assuming Disney won't let you pick three biggies on the same day, e.g., the Mountains in MK, or Soarin'/Test Track/Mission:Space in Epcot), and moving any remaining headliners to the hour after rope drop, the amount of attractions we're covering in a day won't change overmuch. We'll do quite a bit less criss-crossing of parks later in the day, because, for example, while we're playing around in Dinoland at AK, we'll know that our Kilimanjaro Safaris virtual FP is made and waiting for us -- we don't have to make the trek to go get it, spend 90 minutes wandering around wildlife trails in 90-degree heat, killing time and seeing nothing more interesting than some native birds while walking for so long that our daughter literally blows out her sneaker, track down a Disney trading pin for the "sole" purpose of cobbling her shoe together, and then limp back to Kilimanjaro Safaris, only to be literally trampled in line by a blind man whose park touring strategy involved poking people's ankles with his stick to determine their location, and then purposely running them down while his companions step ahead of the prostrate victim in line and mumble in accusing tones, "He couldn't see you." Not that we've personally had that happen to us or anything...

We like to park hop, and we can still do that. We'll just have to use the early morning advantage to get to the "big" attractions in our "a.m." park before the lines get out of hand, and save the Fastpasses to overcome afternoon/evening crowds in our "p.m." park. We're going to spend a little more time in standby lines, guaranteed -- but probably not much more than we're saving by not having to send someone ahead to gather Fastpasses -- and we'll probably lose one or two "repeat" attractions per day ("Sorry, Son, but you're going to have to content yourself with two rides on Splash Mountain today instead of three. Don't cry, boy -- I know it's tough, but these are the kinds of first world problems a man has to endure.")

Of course, there are still many unanswered questions. I'm assuming that when I go to arrange Fastpasses 180 days out, I'm going to be able to get the ones I want, close to the time I want. Will there be enough availability to ensure that? What about the people who won't be sitting at their computer at the break of dawn, 180 days out? How practical or convenient will the in-park MyMagic+ kiosks be, and what kind of availability will there be for new or changed fastpasses on the day of a visit? How will the system compensate if an attraction is "down" during a fastpass return window?

Still, after taking a good hard look at how Fastpass+ is likely to change my family's touring strategy, I still don't see it as a billion-dollar improvement, or an improvement at all, but I'm breathing easier. Which, considering the fact that there's still so much we don't know, I probably should have been doing all along. But I obsess...

I too like to plan, or overplan as my bf likes to say, but I am not looking forward to planning my FP 6 months in advance. I plan my ADR's, I plan which days we spend at which parks, which days we see which fireworks, etc, but I do not want to plan exactly what time on what day I get to ride TSMM. I think that this is going to make one big mess for everyone for a few reasons. First, for people who don't book their trip at the 180 day mark, they will be facing two difficulties, first being finding an available ADR (during peak times atleast) and then trying to find FPs for their favorite/popular attractions. Second, for people who do not follow all the disney sites on a regular basis, they will most likely be confused or will not even know about it to begin with, which could screw up wait times in the standby lines or add headaches to the CM's when they try to explain that little Jimmy can't get a fastpass for PPF because they had to reserve one 6 months in advance. Third, if they completely switch to FP+ and eliminate regular FP, they are going to have an angry mob of people because not everyone enjoys planning every minute of their VACATION. I think that stand by lines are just going to increase, and the fact that you are limited to how many FP you can get in a day is upsetting, how come if I am the type of person who gets to the park for rope drop and also stays until closing I get the same amount of FP that someone who sleeps in and only spends a few hours in the park? You would think that Disney would want guests in the park for longer periods of time so they spend more money on food/merchandise. Next we'll have to schedule what time we want to use the new Tangled bathrooms and we will have to reserve the proper amount of tissue 6 months in advance, better not get that extra taco at lunch!

 

[Weather_Lady]

I too like to plan, or overplan as my bf likes to say, but I am not looking forward to planning my FP 6 months in advance. I plan my ADR's, I plan which days we spend at which parks, which days we see which fireworks, etc, but I do not want to plan exactly what time on what day I get to ride TSMM. I think that this is going to make one big mess for everyone for a few reasons. First, for people who don't book their trip at the 180 day mark, they will be facing two difficulties, first being finding an available ADR (during peak times atleast) and then trying to find FPs for their favorite/popular attractions. Second, for people who do not follow all the disney sites on a regular basis, they will most likely be confused or will not even know about it to begin with, which could screw up wait times in the standby lines or add headaches to the CM's when they try to explain that little Jimmy can't get a fastpass for PPF because they had to reserve one 6 months in advance. Third, if they completely switch to FP+ and eliminate regular FP, they are going to have an angry mob of people because not everyone enjoys planning every minute of their VACATION. I think that stand by lines are just going to increase, and the fact that you are limited to how many FP you can get in a day is upsetting, how come if I am the type of person who gets to the park for rope drop and also stays until closing I get the same amount of FP that someone who sleeps in and only spends a few hours in the park? You would think that Disney would want guests in the park for longer periods of time so they spend more money on food/merchandise. Next we'll have to schedule what time we want to use the new Tangled bathrooms and we will have to reserve the proper amount of tissue 6 months in advance, better not get that extra taco at lunch!

I totally agree with you -- I don't like Fastpass+ any better than anyone else, nor do I like the idea of having to sit down at a computer six months (edit: 60 days) before my vacation and plan its minutia with selections from a limited "menu," in place of what used to be a free, relatively unlimited service that could be utilized by any park visitor on the spur-of-the moment. (Really, to have Disney tell us we should be "grateful" for this "enhancement" is insulting.) I'm just trying to do my best to come to terms with it and figure out the best way keep it from making our vacation more stressful. I'm Grumpy, but I am striving to be Happy.

 

[Todd H]

I totally agree with you -- I don't like Fastpass+ any better than anyone else, nor do I like the idea of having to sit down at a computer six months before my vacation and plan its minutia with selections from a limited "menu," in place of what used to be a free, relatively unlimited service that could be utilized by any park visitor on the spur-of-the moment. (Really, to have Disney tell us we should be "grateful" for this "enhancement" is insulting.) I'm just trying to do my best to come to terms with it and figure out the best way keep it from making our vacation more stressful. I'm Grumpy, but I am striving to be Happy.

My wife and I agreed on how we are going to come to terms with this...this week's trip to WDW will be our last for the foreseeable future. And something tells me we won't be alone.

 

[RandomPrincess]

I too like to plan, or overplan as my bf likes to say, but I am not looking forward to planning my FP 6 months in advance. I plan my ADR's, I plan which days we spend at which parks, which days we see which fireworks, etc, but I do not want to plan exactly what time on what day I get to ride TSMM. I think that this is going to make one big mess for everyone for a few reasons. First, for people who don't book their trip at the 180 day mark, they will be facing two difficulties, first being finding an available ADR (during peak times atleast) and then trying to find FPs for their favorite/popular attractions. Second, for people who do not follow all the disney sites on a regular basis, they will most likely be confused or will not even know about it to begin with, which could screw up wait times in the standby lines or add headaches to the CM's when they try to explain that little Jimmy can't get a fastpass for PPF because they had to reserve one 6 months in advance. Third, if they completely switch to FP+ and eliminate regular FP, they are going to have an angry mob of people because not everyone enjoys planning every minute of their VACATION. I think that stand by lines are just going to increase, and the fact that you are limited to how many FP you can get in a day is upsetting, how come if I am the type of person who gets to the park for rope drop and also stays until closing I get the same amount of FP that someone who sleeps in and only spends a few hours in the park? You would think that Disney would want guests in the park for longer periods of time so they spend more money on food/merchandise. Next we'll have to schedule what time we want to use the new Tangled bathrooms and we will have to reserve the proper amount of tissue 6 months in advance, better not get that extra taco at lunch!

As of now the FP+ window starts 60 days.

 

[stlphil]

• I had the last quarter number, but not last year average
• The best I counted, was 27,790 (23,882 hotel + 3908 DVC) which includes all WDW managed rooms, but if you include Swan/Dolphin and Shades of Green, the number is 30,641 but I'm not sure if those guests will have access to FP+ advanced reservations
• I wasn't counting hourly capacity, nor hourly Fastpass', just figuring an 8 hour theoretical (ball

• 
  
  When including DVC rooms in this, I think DVC units are reported in "two bedroom equivalents", so you will need to double the expected number of people per unit. Also, DVC occupancy is separate from hotel occupancy, and is typically very close to 100%.
  
  Using these values should have a significant but not huge effect on any calculations.

 

[disneygirl1]

I'm pretty sure they're still doing intermittent testing. No firm date on actual implementation.

thanks Monty! That's what I thought buy wasn't 100% sure.

 

[RSoxNo1]

As far as I can tell from reviewing our touring plans, having 2 or 3 fewer Fastpasses in a day is not going to crimp our style too much. In fact, it may make touring a little easier on the feet, by virtue of the fact that we no longer need a Fastpass runner, and don't need to carefully time any visits to Fastpass kiosks -- or even visit them multiple times -- to ensure that we get a Fastpass with a convenient return window. Yes, we won't be able to get as many, but we can compensate for that by concentrating more exclusively on headliners in that precious hour or two after rope drop, and during parades. After removing our Fastpass runner steps, designating three attractions to Fastpass for each day (all in the same park, and assuming Disney won't let you pick three biggies on the same day, e.g., the Mountains in MK, or Soarin'/Test Track/Mission:Space in Epcot), and moving any remaining headliners to the hour after rope drop, the amount of attractions we're covering in a day won't change overmuch. We'll do quite a bit less criss-crossing of parks later in the day, because, for example, while we're playing around in Dinoland at AK, we'll know that our Kilimanjaro Safaris virtual FP is made and waiting for us -- we don't have to make the trek to go get it, spend 90 minutes wandering around wildlife trails in 90-degree heat, killing time and seeing nothing more interesting than some native birds while walking for so long that our daughter literally blows out her sneaker, track down a Disney trading pin for the "sole" purpose of cobbling her shoe together, and then limp back to Kilimanjaro Safaris, only to be literally trampled in line by a blind man whose park touring strategy involved poking people's ankles with his stick to determine their location, and then purposely running them down while his companions step ahead of the prostrate victim in line and mumble in accusing tones, "He couldn't see you." Not that we've personally had that happen to us or anything...

We like to park hop, and we can still do that. We'd just have to use the early morning advantage to get to the "big" attractions in our "a.m." park before the lines get out of hand, and save the Fastpasses to overcome afternoon/evening crowds in our "p.m." park. (The fact is, though, we're more likely to plan differently and end the Park hopping altogether - not being able to get Fastpasses for more than one park really does vitiate my incentive to go more than one place, and it will instantly save us $200+.) We're going to spend a little more time in standby lines, guaranteed -- but probably not much more than we're saving by not having to send someone ahead to gather Fastpasses -- and we'll probably lose one or two "repeat" attractions per day ("Sorry, Son, but you're going to have to content yourself with two rides on Splash Mountain today instead of three. Don't cry, boy -- I know it's tough, but these are the kinds of first world problems a man has to endure.")

Of course, there are still many unanswered questions. I'm assuming that when I go to arrange Fastpasses 180 days (edit: 60 days) out, I'm going to be able to get the ones I want, close to the time I want. Will there be enough availability to ensure that? What about the people who won't be sitting at their computer at the break of dawn, 180 days (edit: 60 days, but still ridiculous) out? How practical or convenient will the in-park MyMagic+ kiosks be, and what kind of availability will there be for new or changed fastpasses on the day of a visit? How will the system compensate if an attraction is "down" during a fastpass return window?

Still, after taking a good hard look at how Fastpass+ is likely to change my family's touring strategy, I still don't see it as a billion-dollar improvement, or an improvement at all, but I'm breathing easier. Which, considering the fact that there's still so much we don't know, I probably should have been doing all along. But I obsess...

Accessing the Fastpass system via your phone or through centralized kiosks also eliminates the "Fastpass Runner". To me, that's a huge selling point and if it was used without scheduling Fastpass+ days in advance, I would be very excited about the change. The thing is, with all of NextGen, they're showing their greed.

 

[prfctlyximprct]

Here's to hoping FastPass+ allows me to experience TSM without getting tramped by 100s of strollers when the park opens!

 

[Gabe1]

Boy, the more information that seems to trickle in the more apparent it is that we still know so little.

 

[bubbles1812]

Here's to hoping FastPass+ allows me to experience TSM without getting tramped by 100s of strollers when the park opens!

Dude you can do that now. There aren't that many strollers. I got to TSM just fine this past week. And I didnt even run. I just walked normally.

And even with your logic.. The ride is so popular with the littles you'd be in danger of being trampled no matter the time of day *rolls eyes*

But I get it, you are super dee super excited for FP+