News and observations from the past month

Siren

Well-Known Member
And this comment just drives the point home in how marketable corporations consider pretty girls to be (and the damage that does to society). There's nothing wrong with being pretty, but there's also nothing wrong with being not so pretty either. The problem is that due to the marketing BS surrounding us and the glorification of external looks thanks to beauty pageant mentality, society is being conditioned to accept and embrace the notion that the prettier you are, the better you are (and the uglier you are, the lesser of a person you are). That's the damage this does to society. Far more than some pirate animatronics chasing women around in a ride whose plot makes it excruciatingly clear that such behavior is evil and if you do it, you'll be cursed to suffer for all eternity.

You know another well known Disney story that showed us somewhat similar scenes? Hunchback of Notre Dame, where Frollo lusts after Esmerelda and tries to force her into a relationship with him (setting Paris afire to try to get to her). And you know what happened to him? He was killed and the movie makes it crystal clear that he was going to suffer in hell for his crimes.

I think movie-goers would more than "forgive" (sad to use that word in such context) an ugly princess if they went the extra mile to make her an interesting character. I certainly would, it could be incredibly cool. And I don't mean interesting in the same way Snow White is. I mean give her an complex story and personality. If the movie was as good as Disney's renaissance-era films and before, I would definitely embrace it. It could be a very cool inverse of the Beast or Quasimodo.
Nice post. Beauty according to Western standards have been quite rigid in the past. From a marketing perspective, beautiful or pretty "sells" and we just have to accept the role we play in contributing to that.

Our society has evolved in how we perceive beauty, it's much more diverse than it once was. What is considered to be beautiful is really subjective and ugly can be just as beautiful, if not more -- it just depends. This is why people love villains. The Broadway show is Wicked is a huge hit centered around the tragic story of the wicked witch. I'm sure no one would be interested in seeing a Broadway show about Glenda, The Good Witch. I'm also looking forward to seeing Maleficent with Angelina Jolie even though she gave me nightmares as a child.
 

lobelia

Well-Known Member
Nice post. Beauty according to Western standards have been quite rigid in the past. From a marketing perspective, beautiful or pretty "sells" and we just have to accept the role we play in contributing to that.

Our society has evolved in how we perceive beauty, it's much more diverse than it once was. What is considered to be beautiful is really subjective and ugly can be just as beautiful, if not more -- it just depends. This is why people love villains. The Broadway show is Wicked is a huge hit centered around the tragic story of the wicked witch. I'm sure no one would be interested in seeing a Broadway show about Glenda, The Good Witch. I'm also looking forward to seeing Maleficent with Angelina Jolie even though she gave me nightmares as a child.
If you believed that Elphaba was the Wicked Witch in Wicked you missed the message of the story.
 

MOXOMUMD

Well-Known Member
This is why people love villains. The Broadway show is Wicked is a huge hit centered around the tragic story of the wicked witch. I'm sure no one would be interested in seeing a Broadway show about Glenda, The Good Witch.
Princesses are supposed to be beautiful and no one wants to look at an ugly princess. If Disney tried to promote an ugly princess, even ugly people would protest.
Your comments are so contradictory it's amazing. You sing the praises of a beautiful princess but not a beautiful Good Witch. You sing the praises of not good looking villains but you say ugly doesn't sell. Honestly who are you to judge? And do Not speak on behalf of all women. We're not all crabby Pattys as you seem to be.
 

Siren

Well-Known Member
I
Your comments are so contradictory it's amazing. You sing the praises of a beautiful princess but not a beautiful Good Witch. You sing the praises of not good looking villains but you say ugly doesn't sell. Honestly who are you to judge? And do Not speak on behalf of all women. We're not all crabby Pattys as you seem to be.
Crabby patty? That is such a nasty insult. I have never noticed you as a poster until now and your claws have already come out to attack me. How pathetic? And, in no way am I attempting to speak on behalf of "all women," I am speaking for myself only.

I love Glenda, the Good Witch but she's much older and more like a mother figure to me -- I've always thought of her in that way and yes, I love the Disney Princesses. You seem very desperate for attention and I'm not going to participate in throwing out nasty insults. So go ahead, you can have my spotlight and bore everyone to sleep!!! I'm bowing out of this "discussion."
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Your comments are so contradictory it's amazing. You sing the praises of a beautiful princess but not a beautiful Good Witch. You sing the praises of not good looking villains but you say ugly doesn't sell. Honestly who are you to judge? And do Not speak on behalf of all women. We're not all crabby Pattys as you seem to be.
Do not call her Patty....we have been warned ...

She will likely explode if we call him Patty again.
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
...


much older and more like a mother figure to me -- I've always thought of her in that way and yes, I love the Disney Princesses. You seem very desperate for attention and I'm not going to participate in throwing out nasty insults. So go ahead, you can have my spotlight and bore everyone to sleep!!! I'm bowing out of this "discussion."

Finally
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Your comments are so contradictory it's amazing. You sing the praises of a beautiful princess but not a beautiful Good Witch. You sing the praises of not good looking villains but you say ugly doesn't sell. Honestly who are you to judge? And do Not speak on behalf of all women. We're not all crabby Pattys as you seem to be.

Ugly does not sell - Then explain popularity of Pugs and Bulldogs ...
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
And this comment just drives the point home in how marketable corporations consider pretty girls to be (and the damage that does to society). There's nothing wrong with being pretty, but there's also nothing wrong with being not so pretty either. The problem is that due to the marketing BS surrounding us and the glorification of external looks thanks to beauty pageant mentality, society is being conditioned to accept and embrace the notion that the prettier you are, the better you are (and the uglier you are, the lesser of a person you are). That's the damage this does to society. Far more than some pirate animatronics chasing women around in a ride whose plot makes it excruciatingly clear that such behavior is evil and if you do it, you'll be cursed to suffer for all eternity.

You know another well known Disney story that showed us somewhat similar scenes? Hunchback of Notre Dame, where Frollo lusts after Esmerelda and tries to force her into a relationship with him (setting Paris afire to try to get to her). And you know what happened to him? He was killed and the movie makes it crystal clear that he was going to suffer in hell for his crimes.

I think movie-goers would more than "forgive" (sad to use that word in such context) an ugly princess if they went the extra mile to make her an interesting character. I certainly would, it could be incredibly cool. And I don't mean interesting in the same way Snow White is. I mean give her an complex story and personality. If the movie was as good as Disney's renaissance-era films and before, I would definitely embrace it. It could be a very cool inverse of the Beast or Quasimodo.

Also the Disney movie 'The Black Hole' explored a similar theme where the villian was pictured trapped within his creation amongst the fires of hell.
 

mergatroid

Well-Known Member
I don't understand this comment. Princesses are supposed to be beautiful and no one wants to look at an ugly princess. If Disney tried to promote an ugly princess, even ugly people would protest..

Am I the only person who finds this statement terribly offensive and demeaning to women? So you're saying if America had a royal family and one of the princesses was ugly that nobody would want to see her because princesses are supposed to be beautiful, well that's very caring of you isn't it. If a family member of yours as a young child hadn't been blessed with good looks and wanted to become a princess in Disney World when she got older would you happily inform that she wasn't pretty enough and that nobody wanted to look at ugly princesses? I suppose you could lessen the blow by informing her that she could maybe become a costumed character with her face covered so as not to offend people though or maybe be a shoe in for Universals Halloween nights.

Just as an aside, you're not one of the mothers who appeared in the 'Bad Grandpa' movie at the childs beauty pageant are you?
 

MOXOMUMD

Well-Known Member
Am I the only person who finds this statement terribly offensive and demeaning to women? So you're saying if America had a royal family and one of the princesses was ugly that nobody would want to see her because princesses are supposed to be beautiful, well that's very caring of you isn't it. If a family member of yours as a young child hadn't been blessed with good looks and wanted to become a princess in Disney World when she got older would you happily inform that she wasn't pretty enough and that nobody wanted to look at ugly princesses? I suppose you could lessen the blow by informing her that she could maybe become a costumed character with her face covered so as not to offend people though or maybe be a shoe in for Universals Halloween nights.

Just as an aside, you're not one of the mothers who appeared in the 'Bad Grandpa' movie at the childs beauty pageant are you?
She's supposed ito be locked away in a tower and wait for her Prince Charming to rescue her and see if with her true love's first kiss if she'll still be an ogre I guess.
 

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