New DVC at Grand Floridian...

[Craig & Lisa]

My wife and I bought into DVC in 2003, yes it's not cheap, it's also NOT a down payment on a house either, they only want 10% down, which depending on how many points you get can be relatively small. We started going to the World in 97, we could only afford to stay at value, and only once a year, since we joined though we have been able to go twice, and one time a third. We stay at deluxe resorts that we couldn't even save for a few years to stay at more than 4 days, our stays last at least 7 days. But by my estimates because of where we stay, since 2003 we have saved at least 20,000.00, yes, we would have saved more staying at the values, and every so often we go there for a day before our regular stay at the deluxe because of when we arrive. Evan stayed there for a few days when we could afford it because we were done with the points we had for that year. Over all, it's not for everybody, but we don't go around knocking the other resorts because they don't have what the deluxe resorts have, plus the value's can be a bit crowded, where as the moderate and deluxe really aren't, you have a right to your opinion, but before you say something, get all the facts before you stand on your soap box.....I will get off my soap box now.
PS; my wife and I have since purchased more properties in SSR....TWICE!!

 

[captainkidd]

DVC resorts pay for themselves in very short time.

That is not a "fact". It is a possibility.

If you don't finance, only buy 150 points, use those points every year, and always stay Deluxe, sure. That's not that case for everybody though.

Not everyone can afford to pay it off up front. When you finance DVC for 10 years, then add in annual dues, it is actually possible you will spend more money. I honestly believe there are DVC owners who know it's not a good investment, but refuse to admit it. It makes them feel better about the purchase.

I've gone over, and over, AND OVER DVC. We should have bought 15 years ago. Now, it doesn't make sense anymore. We crunched the numbers with our financial adviser, and yes, IF we vacation a very specific way and for so many nights, blah blah blah, it could work out. But the fact is, it's not so much of a savings that it was worth the extra hassle for us.

 

[captainkidd]

As much as I am a fan of DVC, some of you (fellow owners I assume based on the way you're defending it) are playing really fast and loose with the numbers. When you calculate how long it takes DVC to "pay for itself", in order for your numbers to be accurate, you must account for the time value of money. Do you honestly think Disney would make such a "great" offer to you that can pay for itself in only a few trips? I know it's supposedly the best kept secret, but it's not that good!

The way we look at DVC is a financial and vacation management tool that facilitates budgeting and future happiness.

Exactly.

The other thing people always say is "Well, hotels cost this much and go up this much every year." I haven't paid rack rate in over 10 years. The last 2 trips, I saved 40% on the room. When you start factoring those savings in, DVC ain't all it's cracked up to be.

Do people really believe Disney has DVC just to save people money?:lol:

 

[DisneyJoe]

That is not a "fact". It is a possibility.

My point was from Disney's viewpoint - not a consumers. Disney puts out the money to build a DVC resort - and then they sell memberships - IMO they recoup their outlay of money in short time. I was responding to:

Sooooooo freakin tired of hearing about DVC, overpriced and waste of money. Why dont they build a non-DVC resort? They havent even filled the ones they have yet, why would they build another? Supply and Demand...

 

[emh1960]

This poster makes a good point.

I've gone over, and over, AND OVER DVC. We should have bought 15 years ago. Now, it doesn't make sense anymore. We crunched the numbers with our financial adviser, and yes, IF we vacation a very specific way and for so many nights, blah blah blah, it could work out. But the fact is, it's not so much of a savings that it was worth the extra hassle for us.

This is exactly what we decided! You are completely on point. It was a better deal years ago. Now, not so much. Also, I think it makes a bit more sense for people who live closer to FL, and can get to WDW a few times a year, during the lower seasons, without a high cost of airfare.

 

[Joe]

In 1999 I bought 150 points at Boardwalk Villas for $7,750. It is paid off. I pay approx. $800 in annual dues. With those 150 points I can stay at a studio for 16 nights at Boardwalk Villas during off peak. That's $50.00 a night.

Joe

 

[captainkidd]

In 1999 I bought 150 points at Boardwalk Villas for $7,750. It is paid off. I pay approx. $800 in annual dues. With those 150 points I can stay at a studio for 16 nights at Boardwalk Villas during off peak. That's $50.00 a night.

Joe

No question, if you bought 10 or more years ago (maybe even a bit less), it was a great deal. Now, those same points will cost you TWICE that much. I assure you, in 2010, the price of a room at the Grand Floridian is not double the price it was in 1999.

 

[jakeman]

I honestly believe there are DVC owners who know it's not a good investment, but refuse to admit it. It makes them feel better about the purchase.

The opposite is also true for people who haven't bought into DVC, and their passionate denegration of the program. They know that it can be a good investment, but refuse to admit that.

It works for some and it obviously works for enough to warrent additional DVC properties. Even if Disney does overreach on DVC properties, at worst Disney has a deluxe level hotel with better amenities than the others.

I just don't see how it can be the BAD THING that others claim.

It doesn't syphon money from the parks and with any luck will create a user base similar to Disneyland, especially after it reaches saturation.

 

[Disneydad08]

Been following this site for quite some time now and finally decided to join. My family started taking me and my brother to disneyworld at a very young age and I now continue the legacy by taking my family. Only difference is that now the trips are paid for myself. After going a few times with my wife we elected to become members of DVC. It makes sense for us. We are not rich by any means and basically live month to month, but I still need my disney fix. I can't seem to understand where the annimosity comes from towards DVC owners. Living in CT and factoring in all the expences it takes to get there,stay there and eat there I can't see anyother way to do it with our family of four. We put down the bare minimum deposit and currently pay it off monthly like our mortgage. And in 8 years it will be paid for. We purchased 210 points at the BLT early on and got it for quite less than the current amount. We took my parents and brother there for my fathers 60 bday in January and stayed in a two bedroom MK view as a way of saying thankyou for all the trips you took us on. I don't know about any of you but I sure can't afford to stay at a deluxe resort without DVC. I look foward to staying at one the GF if it does come about! And the fact that people think it's so expensive try to buy a time share any where else!! It's just as much and you get nearly the perks that Disney has to offer. If I lived in FL it probably won't make sence to own one as I would be able to go when ever I wanted to for far less. Since I purchased one my parents did and also my cousin. They rewarded me with gift cards! Which in turn get spent at Disney. So don't be haters everyones money is green and we all owe a debt of gratitude to anyone that spends there hard earned money at the place we've all grown to love!!! Sorry for the long winded reply.

 

[CumulusIsobar]

Walt Disney World has always been comitted to leaving over 4000 acres undeveloped. That was something they taught us in training.

Just like Show over Efficiency, right? Sounds great but actions don't always match the company line.

 

[MaxsDad]

Some people get so hung up on the dues..

I was thinking about my dues the other day. I pay about $800 per year. I was wondering if there was a way you can "get it back". Well, let's see. I get $100 off AP's for my family of four, so that's $400 right there. (BTW, since we got DVC, we tend to go twice within 12 months). Back in the old days, (las year), we got free valet parking. So say 10 days at $12 per day, that's worth $120. I miss free valet parking, and believe me, so do the Valets! We also get free internet in our rooms. 10 days = $100. That's a pretty good chunk of the dues right there, $620.

There are some dining discounts also, as well as discounts on other things like tours. Most of these are comparable to what you get as an AP holder anyway. They were offering spa certificates this spring too. Also, the property tax portion is deductible in the US, so that's like $25 more.

Really though, I WANT them to charge adequate annual dues. Why? Because I don't want my vacation home to be a decaying dump. I want great maintainance for the next 47 years. I want great service for the next 47 years. I understand when you make a capital "investment", there is going to be upkeep, there is going to be taxes. I want good stewardship by the people I am "in" with.

I like the "invest it" people. At least they are thinking. But they are also forgetting. What if you choose to get in the market just before the recent decline as a way to fund your WDW vacations? Based on averages, you would still not have gotten your original investment back, much less earned a return.

My membership continues to "pay me a dividend" of points to book with, year in and year out, and is gaurunteed to do so for the rest of my naturual life. And this "dividend" is tax free, unlike many investments, especially ones that earn high rates of return. And if it is a gaurunteed principal, and/or rate of return, you know the APY will be minimal.

How many secure investments are out there that can gauruntee safety of principal, and gauruntee to pay a +5% NET return over the next 50 years?

 

[DisneyJoe]

Walt Disney World has always been comitted to leaving over 4000 acres undeveloped. That was something they taught us in training.

I believe this is part of the agreement between RCID and the state of Florida, that a certain percentage of land must be undeveloped.

 

[Master Gracey 5]

If they build DVC at GF, my guess is that they'd convert an existing building or wing rather than put up a new building. The rooms would be limited and very expensive. That's what they did at the Grand Californian at Disneyland. There are only 48 two-bedroom units and two Grand Villas. The units are the most expensive in the DVC system.

I won't touch on whether or not its worth it in terms of cost, but I think this suggestion is probably what we would see if they do DVC at GF. Its the lowest investment option for Disney and offers the highest return in terms of DVC buy ins and non members staying in the rooms for higher per night rates than before.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

That is not a "fact". It is a possibility.

If you don't finance, only buy 150 points, use those points every year, and always stay deluxe, sure. That's not that case for everybody though.

Not everyone can afford to pay it off up front. When you finance dvc for 10 years, then add in annual dues, it is actually possible you will spend more money. I honestly believe there are dvc owners who know it's not a good investment, but refuse to admit it. It makes them feel better about the purchase.

I've gone over, and over, and over dvc. We should have bought 15 years ago. Now, it doesn't make sense anymore. We crunched the numbers with our financial adviser, and yes, if we vacation a very specific way and for so many nights, blah blah blah, it could work out. But the fact is, it's not so much of a savings that it was worth the extra hassle for us.

amen, amen, amen!!!!!!!

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I was thinking about my dues the other day. I pay about $800 per year. I was wondering if there was a way you can "get it back". Well, let's see. I get $100 off AP's for my family of four, so that's $400 right there. (BTW, since we got DVC, we tend to go twice within 12 months). Back in the old days, (las year), we got free valet parking. So say 10 days at $12 per day, that's worth $120. I miss free valet parking, and believe me, so do the Valets! We also get free internet in our rooms. 10 days = $100. That's a pretty good chunk of the dues right there, $620.

There are some dining discounts also, as well as discounts on other things like tours. Most of these are comparable to what you get as an AP holder anyway. They were offering spa certificates this spring too. Also, the property tax portion is deductible in the US, so that's like $25 more.

Really though, I WANT them to charge adequate annual dues. Why? Because I don't want my vacation home to be a decaying dump. I want great maintainance for the next 47 years. I want great service for the next 47 years. I understand when you make a capital "investment", there is going to be upkeep, there is going to be taxes. I want good stewardship by the people I am "in" with.

I like the "invest it" people. At least they are thinking. But they are also forgetting. What if you choose to get in the market just before the recent decline as a way to fund your WDW vacations? Based on averages, you would still not have gotten your original investment back, much less earned a return.

My membership continues to "pay me a dividend" of points to book with, year in and year out, and is gaurunteed to do so for the rest of my naturual life. And this "dividend" is tax free, unlike many investments, especially ones that earn high rates of return. And if it is a gaurunteed principal, and/or rate of return, you know the APY will be minimal.

How many secure investments are out there that can gauruntee safety of principal, and gauruntee to pay a +5% NET return over the next 50 years?

While I "get" your math... You can numbers the thing to death to get whatever result you're looking for. We've gone back and forth and back and forth for years, and at times I can make the math look good, and at times I can make the math look HORRIBLE.

There are also variables that you have no control over, that you may THINK won't happen... But who's to say in 20 years Disney doesn't change their policy on "Right of First Refusal"? They could get out of that altogether, and the value of what you hold drops through the floor. Maybe YOU don't care about that... But there would be MANY that would. Or maybe they jack the dues rate every year by the maximum amount (what is it, 13% I think?)... That would also add up quickly. They're already cracking down a lot more on renters... Most would say that DVC members get the LEAST amount of discounts and price breaks and benefits...

There's just wayyyyyy too many "what if's" for me. And all the what if's might not end up bad... But SOME of them certainly will... And all those essentially push your break-even point out additional years.

Add to that the fact that WDW has been offering deep discounts for the past handful of years (which I routinely see DVC owners PO'd about), and it's not exactly easy to justify.

 

[captainkidd]

The opposite is also true for people who haven't bought into DVC, and their passionate denegration of the program. They know that it can be a good investment, but refuse to admit that.

It works for some and it obviously works for enough to warrent additional DVC properties. Even if Disney does overreach on DVC properties, at worst Disney has a deluxe level hotel with better amenities than the others.

I just don't see how it can be the BAD THING that others claim.

It doesn't syphon money from the parks and with any luck will create a user base similar to Disneyland, especially after it reaches saturation.

I have no doubt. Jealousy of those that have what they don't. Makes perfect sense.

Not the case with me. I looked into DVC so many different ways, and no matter how I cut it, it just never made sense for the way we vacation. And yes, we go to Disney every year.

And no, DVC isn't an investment of any kind. An investment is something that money can be made upon at some point, like a home or a car. DVC is no different than renting an apartment in that respect. Once the time is up, it's gone.

 

[DVCOwner]

If DVC is a good deal is for each to decide. The issue of weather they should build new DVC resorts or add DVC to existing resorts is the issue. When someone says spend the money you would spend on DVC on the parks, that is what is wrong with the DVC haters. DVC are not built using Disney moeny, they are built using members money. As long as more people want to become members than Disney will build more DVC resorts. Once they are sold they become a "free" resort to bring more people to the parks and send money on tickets, food, etc.

 

[jakeman]

I have no doubt. Jealousy of those that have what they don't. Makes perfect sense.

Not the case with me. I looked into DVC so many different ways, and no matter how I cut it, it just never made sense for the way we vacation. And yes, we go to Disney every year.

And no, DVC isn't an investment of any kind. An investment is something that money can be made upon at some point, like a home or a car. DVC is no different than renting an apartment in that respect. Once the time is up, it's gone.

It is an investment in the same way a boat or an RV is an investment. The chances of making money off of them are slim to none (it can even be argued the same for a car) and they probably aren't going to be around in 50 years and if they are, probably of little value to anyone.

You're not investing to expect a monetary ROI but one in memories (as cheesy as that sounds). I don't want to imply that folks should go into DVC thinking that they can flip points for a profit. You (you plural) may save money in the same way that an RV may save you money on hotels if you travel across the country.

It is an investment in what it can potential save you in hotel cost at Disney for the next 50ish years. If it doesn't work for you (plural, not you personally), it doesn't mean there is something wrong with the system or something wrong with the individual's vacationing style, it's just one of the many systems of vacationing at Disney that are available.

I don't want to turn this into a DDP bashing, but we find that we don't use DDP often (only once or twice) because it doesn't mesh well with the way we eat (especially at Food and Wine). I don't begrudge those that use DDP.

Same for tickets, this year is the first time in 5 years that we didn't renew our annual passes. We looked at the times we would be vacationing and decided that 10 day tickets would be the way to go. We are taking our newly adopted son for the first time and the combination 10 day ticket plus water park is more economical for us than annual passes plus seperate tickets. I'm not shaking my fist at the annual passholders with their Tables in Wonderland card (well maybe a little, ).

We ran the numbers most likely as hard as you did, and found that purchasing at the time we did, it will work for us. We will probably never add on points through Disney, though. The price point we bought at 5 years ago was comfortable for us. Now...not so much.

 

[majortom1981]

I only paid 10k for my dvc. After a couple of years of trips then it becomes me getting my hotel for disney for free. Plus try to get a room in disney non dvc with its own kitchen.

That saves you a ton of money right there being able to make your own meals instead of getting overpriced park food.

The rooms and resorts are much nicer then standard disney rooms also.

 

[Main Street USA]

You don't need to buy into BLT to stay there with DVC though. We own at SSR and Kidani. This summer we aren't staying at either. We're staying at BLT and Treehouse on a split trip using our points.

You don't have to own DVC at all to stay in any of them. I've called to get a quote at BLT twice (and several other DVCs numerous times), and each time they've had availability for cash paying customers. No need to buy into DVC when I can just go to those resorts like I can the rest of the resorts on property...with the same discount, too.