New Disneyland Parking Garage and Transportation Hub

[Darkbeer1]

A poster over on micechat named Baloo reposted this info from another site. The info is from Darkbeer, who has been online in the Disney community since the late 1990's and Al Lutz's DIG site. Darkbeer kind of went AWOL for years back around 2010, but he's a very solid source when it comes to stuff like this.

Thanks for the kind words, just found this thread, and I should add a few things that might help the discussion.

First some of the things you have seen in the news have sources I know very well, well my wife knows him better

But let add some more things to think about.

First off, let's get to the city of Anaheim and what is on the plate.

If you go to the Anaheim Planning Commission website, you will find some very basic info in regards to DEV2016-00014, which is the proposal that Disney filed with the city to team up with a specific timeline they want. (project 3 on the August 9th deadline).

http://gis.anaheim.net/developmentactivity/

Disney did selectively give two main Newspapers in the area some of the maps (the one first featured at OC Disney (aka Register/SCNG) and some of the conception art. Since Disney knew that there would be some release due to public records laws, they went proactive.

If you look at the August 9th deadline and the attached calendar, currently the proposal is going under staff review by the city. They have until September 6th to finalize the thoughts and recommendations in writing (staff reports). So sometime shortly after that date, there will be a release of info to the public, and that the scheduled public hearing will be at 5 PM, September 19th at City Hall. (EDITED to add, then the city council has the right to review and hold another public hearing for the next two months or so)

Now, Disney and/or the city can decided to push it back if the staff reports has issues/changes that the parties want to work on prior to the hearing. But it looks like the September 19th date works with Disney's scheduled and announcing the Carousel In closing in October. (Edit - Disney can start the closure and preparation of demolition by removing items prior to the official City Council approval).

Also, if you want to look into agreements that Disney and the city made in 2015 in regards to no admission tax for at least 30 years, for spending $1 Billion in infrastructure. A promise of a new parking structure, and improvements to traffic flow issues. So Disney is asking for the current Pumbaa lot (mainly used for CM parking now) to be the new structure promised, and will work with the city in regards to traffic flow, either by building structure (such as a bridge) or reimbursing the city for changes that the city has to do, since the land is owned by the city, and not Disney, such as roadways and sidewalks. (Since the proposed bridge is actually "private", it can be built by Disney).

We also know, going back to the major I-5 freeway improvements that Orange County did using a sales tax increase, that when that project was designed, that the "original" parking lot entrance at Harbor and Disney Way was still a major traffic issue, and that freeway access to the road was designed to handle heavy loads.

We also know that the city of Anaheim has quietly stopped accepting applications and even dropped mentioning the current "Anaheim/OC Walk of Stars", which is the current public sidewalk next to the current Taxi Stand on the west side of Harbor.

We also know that deals were made between the city and Disney, plus Anaheim GardenWalk and Wincome Group when it got approval for the rebate of the ToT Hotel Tax for the Four 4 star Hotels being promised last month, two of them on Disney Way (AGW and the JW Marriott and the current Anaheim Plaza property). While those properties still have to get their projects through the Planning Commission in the future, we know they have the zoning approved.

So those are the hard facts, and of course, things are subject to change between the time of plan submission and final approval. And of course, you can also always get permit changes made if the city approves them after that.

We also know that the city works with those planning to submit an application prior to actually being filed, aka behind the scenes discussions that helps all parties to streamline the process. Better to know that the city doesn't like something and make changes prior to going to staff review, as it saves time and money for everyone involved. So deals have been made, some we know, some will come out in the next few months and years.

Think I will start a new post, to let this stand as the "official" info currently available.

 

[Darkbeer1]

So now we know what is current, lets do look into the future.

The city's Traffic and Transportation Department has been focused on improving the Anaheim Resort District (including the Convention Center owned by the city), along with nearby Platinum Triangle area (think Angel Stadium, Honda Center and City National Grove of Anaheim, all owned by the city, by the way) .

The city built a new fancy high tech Traffic control center recently.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/traffic-504464-center-anaheim.html

The city has also dealt with Disney and has them make changes to their parking plans, including not allowing Simba Parking Trams, since they cross a public street, using the road on the south end of DCA to take cars being sent to the Toy Story Lot from Mickey and Friends to avoid using Katella Avenue, they also mandate when it happens for traffic flow issues. The city can and does make the decision when certain parking lot entrances and exits can be used. (Think the parade of cars after fireworks and only allowing the flyover to be used to exit, and no access to Ball Road). Also the fact that the city didn't agree to use Disney CM's for street traffic control (The police union had a major part in regards of the issue), and Disney has to pay for the costs (Reported at over $5 Million in 2014).

Then we have the deals that Disney has made in regards to Parking Lot use. The city lost a few thousand spaces for Convention Center expansion next to the Hilton, so they need to make up for them, plus the additional spaces needed for the new space. Agreements are in place to using the Toy Story and Simba lots when a major event is held at the Convention Center, and the city allows CM parking at its Angel Stadium lot..

Also the city got Disney to join the ART network, which was something Disney wanted nothing to do with when started as part of the original DCA project. The Toy Story Lot Buses are actually ART Route 20 buses, using ART drivers and ART owned or leased vehicles (from OCTA) ART is run by a quasi-public agency ATN set up by the city.

So the city does have a big focus on the issue, and has to weigh the needs of the city residents (and yes, I bought a house in West Anaheim a couple of years ago), Disney and of course, the non-Disney businesses including Hotels, Motels, Restaurants, Shops, etc. Also the employees that work for those businesses.

So getting improvements on Harbor is a key issue facing the current Eastern Gateway Project.

Next post, what does the city want, and what could happen.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Now comes some insight and insider info...

The city needs to address the current roads on the east side of the DLR starting at Harbor and going to around the edge of I-5.

Disney Way is going to be a big point, with a new Parking Structure Entrance (as shown on the map submitted), plus the two new 4 Star Hotels coming, and addressing current issues. Some of that has already happened, with work on Clementine and Disney Way or the north side, including widening of the area, and the city getting more land on the East side of Clementine due to construction permits on that side of the street.

Also, work has been done on Manchester (and in the area, basically the same street as Clementine with a name change) that was paid for as part of the approval of the new Courtyard and Holiday Inn Express. So we know that the middle section has to be improved (just plain logic) as part of building the new Transportation Hub.

By the way, as I understand it, the current plan for the Pumbaa Parking Structure Exit, the north side of the structure, and being given ONLY the option of a Right turn onto Clementine, and then an immediate left onto Disney Way away from Harbor, this allows easy freeway access North and South on I-5 using already built infrastructure. No current plans to build a ramp, but since we are looking forward, can always be subject to change. But this keeps traffic off of Harbor, a main city goal .

So now we have to address the segment of Disney Way from Anaheim Blvd (aka I-5) to Harbor. Based on the submitted plans, a "new" Pedestrian entrance to the Disneyland Resort will open between the east (back) side of the Grand Legacy of the Park Hotel and the Pumbaa Parking Structure. This is where Disney wants folks to enter, and yes, the city asked for it to be taken off of Harbor. Let alone does it have to address the current pedestrian load, but also the two new 4 Star Hotels, plus the other new Hotels that just opened on/near Harbor and Katella. So the city wants to try and get as many pedestrians as they can to use that option.

So more than likely, we will have some streamlining of Disney Way in the area, with removal/rerouting of options for pathways, sidewalks, etc.

Currently, main uses include the current Toy Story route, which is mainly entering/exiting the Katella CM parking lot main entrance at Clementine, with the option of stops at Pumbaa and AGW if Disney is using them for guests parking due to demand, and then turning at Clementine and Disney Way to enter the west side entrance on Harbor. We also have the current Hotels that need access for its vehicles and pedestrians, and need to take into consideration the new Hotels. Also a left turn option for AGW from Disney Way westbound. Also what to do with vehicles if Pumbaa fills up.

So we still need a left/U-turn from Disney Way west to Harbor Blvd South, that will allow access to the Toy Story Lot, and restrictive access straight to the new Shuttle area being placed at the current Taxi Stand and Walk of Stars is (Note, Disney, in its proposed "future" plans moved the Toy Story Drop off to the Harbor edge, and away from behind the Monsters, Inc. ride - read into that what you want, way too early to say what actually what will be done, but yes, internally Disney does have to spend at least $1 Billion in new infrastructure, and another $500 Million to extend the "no admission tax" agreement, and is looking into a few options, many have been mentioned online already).

Heck, the city has looked into trying to get the two new 4 star Hotels and AGW to build (or reimburse) a pedestrian bridge over Disney Way, but also way too early to be sure it will happen.

So what will happen, well upgrades to the current Disney Way/Clementine intersection (enlargements) to handle the flow at that intersection. More than likely, some of the crosswalks will be removed, which is similar to the current intersection at Harbor and Manchester, where they don't allow crossing between certain corners. Say only 2 of the 4 remain. More than likely, the northern crosswalk will be removed, and the western one to allow easier access to the new Pumbaa Entrance.

Then at the current AGW parking entrance on Disney Way, that one crosswalk will remain (unless replaced by a bridge), and looking at the map, it is very close to the "new" pedestrian entrance.

Now, we get to the corner of Harbor and Disney Way. Some sort of access has to remain, so more than likely the southern crosswalk will remain for folks that stay a the Candy Cane Inn and others. That is the ONLY one that has to stay. Send folks east on Disney Way to the AGW crosswalk.

Now the west side sidewalk on Harbor Blvd between Disney Way and Harbor Pointe CM gate, the sidewalk north of Harbor Pointe has to remain, but there are possibilities for some land swap with Disney to allow minor changes that might allow Disney to not have to move the Monorail track (along with a few other options). This does match up with the comments that Disney made to the OC Register and the owners of HoJo's, Courtyard and Mimi's Café landlord (same company). (Disney hasn't decided that what to do with the Monorail and that Pedestrian access will remain for HoJo's - The current Manchester Crosswalk at Harbor).

The proposed plan also shows less driveways on the west side of Harbor, plus the city does have some power with OCTA to get the bus routes to a slight detour off Harbor and use Manchester/Clementine until Disney Way and/or Katella. Some routes (OCTA Route 83 and LA Metro Route 460 already do use it), so you can also close down the large bus stop area on Harbor. So if you remove the current crosswalk across from the Park Vue Inn and the Taxi Stand, you have no left/U-turn needed and now a solid median with safety fence from Manchester to Disney Way. And only two driveways on the West side, one to enter the new (well revamped) CM Shuttle area (a right turn only to be used by Disney approved vehicles and police/fire, and a right turn exit from the area (Disney CM Shuttles serving the HArbor and Ball lot will make a left on Disney Way and follow the main new bus route. And finally a right turn (once again only Disney approved vehicles to the new shuttle area (Toy Story?) and the DCA access road. Also, there still needs to be a way for vehicles (including the rerouted guests from Mickey and Friends) to make a turn onto southbound Harbor.

So the city and Disney can work out a deal where a public sidewalk that started southbound at Manchester to connect with the pathway Disney will use for the new Shuttle (guest) drop-off and a needed security check on the West side. But not provide a segment past that to Disney Way, helping to redirect pedestrian traffic flow off of Harbor.

Removing the bus stop now also opens up new options to building how the west side of the new bridge ends (note, not part of the submitted plans). You could even lower the roadway a bit on the right lane, since it would be designed for access to the CM Shuttle area, and also doesn't need the same height restrictions of the main roadway (State law says basically 16 feet needed in clearance) while a typical shuttle bus only needs about 12 feet. So as part of the planning, the city gets some land west of the current sidewalk for a reroute,Disney get some land to build bridge supports and doesn't haveto spend all the money moving the Monorail tracks. And we have seen that Disney has only done it twice, once as a thank you to Jack Wrather and added track to the Disneyland Hotel (now the DtD Stop), and then when Indiana Jones was built. Every other project, including all of DCA, the construction was designed around the track. So I would say a high likelihood Disney will work with the city to try and prevent doing it now.

Other things the city is looking into, making Wincome change driveway access off of Harbor and onto Disney Way when they replace the Anaheim Plaza.

So the answers are still in limbo, but it is clear that the city of Anaheim has a lot to say in this matter. (Remember in the original Westcot agreement (turned into DCA), that Anaheim was in a bidding war with Long Beach and DisneySea, and agreed to things like paying for the Mickey & Friends Parking Structure). Now, they have much more control, and we see that Disney is already planning to pay for the new structure and the bridge.

But so far, the city is getting less driveways on Harbor in the project area (loss of the Carousel driveway (east side), less on the Disney (west) side. And the majority of costs of the entire thing is being picked up by those submitting permit applications.

The current tax deals, well, they are basically rebates, the city can always add an admission charge, and collect it from everyone including non-Disney businesses, and just rebate the amount charged to Disney businesses back to Disney, and that the 4 Star tax credit is that, a return of 70% of future TOT Hotel taxes for a specific period. No money out of pocket by the city .

 

[NobodyElse]

Thanks for the kind words, just found this thread, and I should add a few things that might help the discussion.
...

Think I will start a new post, to let this stand as the "official" info currently available.

Great to see you around these parts (from another old LP person.)

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Hi Darkbeer. I was with you until the last post.

 

[thequirkysarah]

Hi Darkbeer. I was with you until the last post.

Agreed. I feel like I need someone to break this all down for me with pictures and simple explanations on the hows and whys. I'm just not quite able to wrap my head around everything. Maybe I'm just not familiar enough with the actual workings of the area.

Regardless, thanks for the info, Darkbeer!

 

[Stevek]

Now comes some insight and insider info...

The city needs to address the current roads on the east side of the DLR starting at Harbor and going to around the edge of I-5.

Disney Way is going to be a big point, with a new Parking Structure Entrance (as shown on the map submitted), plus the two new 4 Star Hotels coming, and addressing current issues. Some of that has already happened, with work on Clementine and Disney Way or the north side, including widening of the area, and the city getting more land on the East side of Clementine due to construction permits on that side of the street.

Also, work has been done on Manchester (and in the area, basically the same street as Clementine with a name change) that was paid for as part of the approval of the new Courtyard and Holiday Inn Express. So we know that the middle section has to be improved (just plain logic) as part of building the new Transportation Hub.

By the way, as I understand it, the current plan for the Pumbaa Parking Structure Exit, the north side of the structure, and being given ONLY the option of a Right turn onto Clementine, and then an immediate left onto Disney Way away from Harbor, this allows easy freeway access North and South on I-5 using already built infrastructure. No current plans to build a ramp, but since we are looking forward, can always be subject to change. But this keeps traffic off of Harbor, a main city goal .

So now we have to address the segment of Disney Way from Anaheim Blvd (aka I-5) to Harbor. Based on the submitted plans, a "new" Pedestrian entrance to the Disneyland Resort will open between the east (back) side of the Grand Legacy of the Park Hotel and the Pumbaa Parking Structure. This is where Disney wants folks to enter, and yes, the city asked for it to be taken off of Harbor. Let alone does it have to address the current pedestrian load, but also the two new 4 Star Hotels, plus the other new Hotels that just opened on/near Harbor and Katella. So the city wants to try and get as many pedestrians as they can to use that option.

So more than likely, we will have some streamlining of Disney Way in the area, with removal/rerouting of options for pathways, sidewalks, etc.

Currently, main uses include the current Toy Story route, which is mainly entering/exiting the Katella CM parking lot main entrance at Clementine, with the option of stops at Pumbaa and AGW if Disney is using them for guests parking due to demand, and then turning at Clementine and Disney Way to enter the west side entrance on Harbor. We also have the current Hotels that need access for its vehicles and pedestrians, and need to take into consideration the new Hotels. Also a left turn option for AGW from Disney Way westbound. Also what to do with vehicles if Pumbaa fills up.

So we still need a left/U-turn from Disney Way west to Harbor Blvd South, that will allow access to the Toy Story Lot, and restrictive access straight to the new Shuttle area being placed at the current Taxi Stand and Walk of Stars is (Note, Disney, in its proposed "future" plans moved the Toy Story Drop off to the Harbor edge, and away from behind the Monsters, Inc. ride - read into that what you want, way too early to say what actually what will be done, but yes, internally Disney does have to spend at least $1 Billion in new infrastructure, and another $500 Million to extend the "no admission tax" agreement, and is looking into a few options, many have been mentioned online already).

Heck, the city has looked into trying to get the two new 4 star Hotels and AGW to build (or reimburse) a pedestrian bridge over Disney Way, but also way too early to be sure it will happen.

So what will happen, well upgrades to the current Disney Way/Clementine intersection (enlargements) to handle the flow at that intersection. More than likely, some of the crosswalks will be removed, which is similar to the current intersection at Harbor and Manchester, where they don't allow crossing between certain corners. Say only 2 of the 4 remain. More than likely, the northern crosswalk will be removed, and the western one to allow easier access to the new Pumbaa Entrance.

Then at the current AGW parking entrance on Disney Way, that one crosswalk will remain (unless replaced by a bridge), and looking at the map, it is very close to the "new" pedestrian entrance.

Now, we get to the corner of Harbor and Disney Way. Some sort of access has to remain, so more than likely the southern crosswalk will remain for folks that stay a the Candy Cane Inn and others. That is the ONLY one that has to stay. Send folks east on Disney Way to the AGW crosswalk.

Now the west side sidewalk on Harbor Blvd between Disney Way and Harbor Pointe CM gate, the sidewalk north of Harbor Pointe has to remain, but there are possibilities for some land swap with Disney to allow minor changes that might allow Disney to not have to move the Monorail track (along with a few other options). This does match up with the comments that Disney made to the OC Register and the owners of HoJo's, Courtyard and Mimi's Café landlord (same company). (Disney hasn't decided that what to do with the Monorail and that Pedestrian access will remain for HoJo's - The current Manchester Crosswalk at Harbor).

The proposed plan also shows less driveways on the west side of Harbor, plus the city does have some power with OCTA to get the bus routes to a slight detour off Harbor and use Manchester/Clementine until Disney Way and/or Katella. Some routes (OCTA Route 83 and LA Metro Route 460 already do use it), so you can also close down the large bus stop area on Harbor. So if you remove the current crosswalk across from the Park Vue Inn and the Taxi Stand, you have no left/U-turn needed and now a solid median with safety fence from Manchester to Disney Way. And only two driveways on the West side, one to enter the new (well revamped) CM Shuttle area (a right turn only to be used by Disney approved vehicles and police/fire, and a right turn exit from the area (Disney CM Shuttles serving the HArbor and Ball lot will make a left on Disney Way and follow the main new bus route. And finally a right turn (once again only Disney approved vehicles to the new shuttle area (Toy Story?) and the DCA access road. Also, there still needs to be a way for vehicles (including the rerouted guests from Mickey and Friends) to make a turn onto southbound Harbor.

So the city and Disney can work out a deal where a public sidewalk that started southbound at Manchester to connect with the pathway Disney will use for the new Shuttle (guest) drop-off and a needed security check on the West side. But not provide a segment past that to Disney Way, helping to redirect pedestrian traffic flow off of Harbor.

Removing the bus stop now also opens up new options to building how the west side of the new bridge ends (note, not part of the submitted plans). You could even lower the roadway a bit on the right lane, since it would be designed for access to the CM Shuttle area, and also doesn't need the same height restrictions of the main roadway (State law says basically 16 feet needed in clearance) while a typical shuttle bus only needs about 12 feet. So as part of the planning, the city gets some land west of the current sidewalk for a reroute,Disney get some land to build bridge supports and doesn't haveto spend all the money moving the Monorail tracks. And we have seen that Disney has only done it twice, once as a thank you to Jack Wrather and added track to the Disneyland Hotel (now the DtD Stop), and then when Indiana Jones was built. Every other project, including all of DCA, the construction was designed around the track. So I would say a high likelihood Disney will work with the city to try and prevent doing it now.

Other things the city is looking into, making Wincome change driveway access off of Harbor and onto Disney Way when they replace the Anaheim Plaza.

So the answers are still in limbo, but it is clear that the city of Anaheim has a lot to say in this matter. (Remember in the original Westcot agreement (turned into DCA), that Anaheim was in a bidding war with Long Beach and DisneySea, and agreed to things like paying for the Mickey & Friends Parking Structure). Now, they have much more control, and we see that Disney is already planning to pay for the new structure and the bridge.

But so far, the city is getting less driveways on Harbor in the project area (loss of the Carousel driveway (east side), less on the Disney (west) side. And the majority of costs of the entire thing is being picked up by those submitting permit applications.

The current tax deals, well, they are basically rebates, the city can always add an admission charge, and collect it from everyone including non-Disney businesses, and just rebate the amount charged to Disney businesses back to Disney, and that the 4 Star tax credit is that, a return of 70% of future TOT Hotel taxes for a specific period. No money out of pocket by the city .

"Darkbeer, That's a name I've not heard in a long time"

 

[NobodyElse]

Now comes some insight and insider info...

The city needs to address the current roads on the east side of the DLR starting at Harbor and going to around the edge of I-5.

Disney Way is going to be a big point, with a new Parking Structure Entrance (as shown on the map submitted), plus the two new 4 Star Hotels coming, and addressing current issues. Some of that has already happened, with work on Clementine and Disney Way or the north side, including widening of the area, and the city getting more land on the East side of Clementine due to construction permits on that side of the street.

Also, work has been done on Manchester (and in the area, basically the same street as Clementine with a name change) that was paid for as part of the approval of the new Courtyard and Holiday Inn Express. So we know that the middle section has to be improved (just plain logic) as part of building the new Transportation Hub.

By the way, as I understand it, the current plan for the Pumbaa Parking Structure Exit, the north side of the structure, and being given ONLY the option of a Right turn onto Clementine, and then an immediate left onto Disney Way away from Harbor, this allows easy freeway access North and South on I-5 using already built infrastructure. No current plans to build a ramp, but since we are looking forward, can always be subject to change. But this keeps traffic off of Harbor, a main city goal .

So now we have to address the segment of Disney Way from Anaheim Blvd (aka I-5) to Harbor. Based on the submitted plans, a "new" Pedestrian entrance to the Disneyland Resort will open between the east (back) side of the Grand Legacy of the Park Hotel and the Pumbaa Parking Structure. This is where Disney wants folks to enter, and yes, the city asked for it to be taken off of Harbor. Let alone does it have to address the current pedestrian load, but also the two new 4 Star Hotels, plus the other new Hotels that just opened on/near Harbor and Katella. So the city wants to try and get as many pedestrians as they can to use that option.

So more than likely, we will have some streamlining of Disney Way in the area, with removal/rerouting of options for pathways, sidewalks, etc.

Currently, main uses include the current Toy Story route, which is mainly entering/exiting the Katella CM parking lot main entrance at Clementine, with the option of stops at Pumbaa and AGW if Disney is using them for guests parking due to demand, and then turning at Clementine and Disney Way to enter the west side entrance on Harbor. We also have the current Hotels that need access for its vehicles and pedestrians, and need to take into consideration the new Hotels. Also a left turn option for AGW from Disney Way westbound. Also what to do with vehicles if Pumbaa fills up.

So we still need a left/U-turn from Disney Way west to Harbor Blvd South, that will allow access to the Toy Story Lot, and restrictive access straight to the new Shuttle area being placed at the current Taxi Stand and Walk of Stars is (Note, Disney, in its proposed "future" plans moved the Toy Story Drop off to the Harbor edge, and away from behind the Monsters, Inc. ride - read into that what you want, way too early to say what actually what will be done, but yes, internally Disney does have to spend at least $1 Billion in new infrastructure, and another $500 Million to extend the "no admission tax" agreement, and is looking into a few options, many have been mentioned online already).

Heck, the city has looked into trying to get the two new 4 star Hotels and AGW to build (or reimburse) a pedestrian bridge over Disney Way, but also way too early to be sure it will happen.

So what will happen, well upgrades to the current Disney Way/Clementine intersection (enlargements) to handle the flow at that intersection. More than likely, some of the crosswalks will be removed, which is similar to the current intersection at Harbor and Manchester, where they don't allow crossing between certain corners. Say only 2 of the 4 remain. More than likely, the northern crosswalk will be removed, and the western one to allow easier access to the new Pumbaa Entrance.

Then at the current AGW parking entrance on Disney Way, that one crosswalk will remain (unless replaced by a bridge), and looking at the map, it is very close to the "new" pedestrian entrance.

Now, we get to the corner of Harbor and Disney Way. Some sort of access has to remain, so more than likely the southern crosswalk will remain for folks that stay a the Candy Cane Inn and others. That is the ONLY one that has to stay. Send folks east on Disney Way to the AGW crosswalk.

Now the west side sidewalk on Harbor Blvd between Disney Way and Harbor Pointe CM gate, the sidewalk north of Harbor Pointe has to remain, but there are possibilities for some land swap with Disney to allow minor changes that might allow Disney to not have to move the Monorail track (along with a few other options). This does match up with the comments that Disney made to the OC Register and the owners of HoJo's, Courtyard and Mimi's Café landlord (same company). (Disney hasn't decided that what to do with the Monorail and that Pedestrian access will remain for HoJo's - The current Manchester Crosswalk at Harbor).

The proposed plan also shows less driveways on the west side of Harbor, plus the city does have some power with OCTA to get the bus routes to a slight detour off Harbor and use Manchester/Clementine until Disney Way and/or Katella. Some routes (OCTA Route 83 and LA Metro Route 460 already do use it), so you can also close down the large bus stop area on Harbor. So if you remove the current crosswalk across from the Park Vue Inn and the Taxi Stand, you have no left/U-turn needed and now a solid median with safety fence from Manchester to Disney Way. And only two driveways on the West side, one to enter the new (well revamped) CM Shuttle area (a right turn only to be used by Disney approved vehicles and police/fire, and a right turn exit from the area (Disney CM Shuttles serving the HArbor and Ball lot will make a left on Disney Way and follow the main new bus route. And finally a right turn (once again only Disney approved vehicles to the new shuttle area (Toy Story?) and the DCA access road. Also, there still needs to be a way for vehicles (including the rerouted guests from Mickey and Friends) to make a turn onto southbound Harbor.

So the city and Disney can work out a deal where a public sidewalk that started southbound at Manchester to connect with the pathway Disney will use for the new Shuttle (guest) drop-off and a needed security check on the West side. But not provide a segment past that to Disney Way, helping to redirect pedestrian traffic flow off of Harbor.

Removing the bus stop now also opens up new options to building how the west side of the new bridge ends (note, not part of the submitted plans). You could even lower the roadway a bit on the right lane, since it would be designed for access to the CM Shuttle area, and also doesn't need the same height restrictions of the main roadway (State law says basically 16 feet needed in clearance) while a typical shuttle bus only needs about 12 feet. So as part of the planning, the city gets some land west of the current sidewalk for a reroute,Disney get some land to build bridge supports and doesn't haveto spend all the money moving the Monorail tracks. And we have seen that Disney has only done it twice, once as a thank you to Jack Wrather and added track to the Disneyland Hotel (now the DtD Stop), and then when Indiana Jones was built. Every other project, including all of DCA, the construction was designed around the track. So I would say a high likelihood Disney will work with the city to try and prevent doing it now.

Other things the city is looking into, making Wincome change driveway access off of Harbor and onto Disney Way when they replace the Anaheim Plaza.

So the answers are still in limbo, but it is clear that the city of Anaheim has a lot to say in this matter. (Remember in the original Westcot agreement (turned into DCA), that Anaheim was in a bidding war with Long Beach and DisneySea, and agreed to things like paying for the Mickey & Friends Parking Structure). Now, they have much more control, and we see that Disney is already planning to pay for the new structure and the bridge.

But so far, the city is getting less driveways on Harbor in the project area (loss of the Carousel driveway (east side), less on the Disney (west) side. And the majority of costs of the entire thing is being picked up by those submitting permit applications.

The current tax deals, well, they are basically rebates, the city can always add an admission charge, and collect it from everyone including non-Disney businesses, and just rebate the amount charged to Disney businesses back to Disney, and that the 4 Star tax credit is that, a return of 70% of future TOT Hotel taxes for a specific period. No money out of pocket by the city .

Thanks again for all the great info. It's really helpful.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Hi Darkbeer. I was with you until the last post.

What is confusing you?


My third post addressed mainly the traffic flow of vehicles and pedestrians by the city in relation to the new Eastern Gateway Project and related projects, such as the 4 star Hotels.


The main pedestrian points the city is looking into and their views on solutions.

To summarize.

Remove a segment of public sidewalk on the west side of Harbor, this will force folks to the eastern side.

Shut down and reroute pedestrian crossings on the East Side of Harbor to direct them to the new Pedestrian entrance next to Pummba.

As for traffic, reroute buses and shuttles to the new Transportation Hub on Manchester, including road work/widening and new public bus stops. Also changes to help make the new Pumbaa structure flow better.

Goal is to reduce traffic on Harbor, and that traffic will flow more smoothly and faster in the area, and hopefully less accidents will happen to vehicles and pedestrians.

But happy to answer any questions you may have, with the caveat that I answer “I don’t know” and also the understanding that I might really don’t know, or have to keep my mouth shut .


Just like I had to keep my “laugh” inside when in May of 2015 Disney stated that they had no long term plans in regards to the purchase of the Carousel, but just let Wincome run it as a landlord…. (And the current Admission Tax deal was already way in the works…)

 

[Darkbeer1]

I should add in regards to my third post in regards to the Monorail.

Disney has no real decision yet to moving the track. Yes they have looked into the costs and their options. Seems like the best option is to make a deal with the city and try and not move it. So they need to let the process play out before they make a decision.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I'm pretty sure that the CM Drop Off will be underneath the Guest Pathway. If you look at the red lines on the outlines, I'm pretty sure that indicates an elevated walkway.

Disney has pretty much stated the plan is similar to the current bridge crossing Disneyland Drive and will have blockage built into the plans. But you will always have some views, including the Monorail.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Perhaps there will be a crosswalk near the Cast dropoff and then Harbor people will go through security with Cast?

What is on the drawing board is that the OCTA and LA Metro buses will have stops at Harbor and Ball and then CM's would use the CM Shuttles to Harbor Pointe. (the current flat lot, and potential structure, former RV park)

 

[Deleted member 107043]

What is confusing you?

Everything you wrote, basically. Don't worry, I tend to be a visual learner, so it's me not you.

To summarize.

Thank you....

Seems like the best option is to make a deal with the city and try and not move it. So they need to let the process play out before they make a decision.

So if they don't move the beam where do you suppose the path for the 20' high bridge will go? Seems like the only logical option is to move the track.

 

[Darkbeer1]

What would stop someone from crossing the street on Harbor to get to the parks?

This one has an easy answer. Currently much of Harbor Blvd between Manchester and Convention Way has a nice landscaped median with a safety fence to help prevent Jaywalking already.

In the city plans, the median from Manchester to Disney Way will become one long median with a safety fence the entire length, and that the traffic light at the current Pedestrian entrance be removed.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Maybe I'm just not familiar enough with the actual workings of the area.

I think that's part of my problem too. Other than Harbor, Disneyland Drive and Katella I'm not familiar enough with the area to know the street names without looking at a map. 90% of the time I stay in hotels when I visit (I think I've parked in Mickey & Friends maybe three times since it was built), so I have zero point of reference for the names of the other Resort parking lots scattered around the area.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Dr. Hans, in regards to your question regarding the 20 foot height of the bridge.

It is presumed that is the top of the bridge, including a fence/landscaping.

California laws (also Federal and city/regional ones) has the lower end of the bridge be 16 feet between roadway and the structure (aka clearance). But exceptions can be made (ever see those Yellow "low clearance signs"? Now, while exceptions can be made, it is very doubtful that the main left two lanes would get an exemption, but after that, the city could agree to a lower limit, and as mentioned, the right lane becoming just a turn lane into the CM Shuttle access, they only need about 12 feet. And the Pedestrian portion closer to Harbor Pointe can be even lower, say 8 feet or a bit less.

Also, the bridge is not part of the current proposal, so it can be rerouted, it doesn't have to go straight across from the current Carousel, but can go diagonally to end farther south on the west side of Harbor. Add to that a land swap with the city and moving the bus stop, and you have the potential to start lowering the slope of the bridge to work with the current location of the tracks. There is also the possibility to build it taller, but that got shut down quickly due to the ADA laws in regards to slope and a flat section for a sloped ramp. (Think the new Monorail ramp in Tomorrowland, it was spread out and a flat area in the middle to meet ADA laws)

 

[Deleted member 107043]

And the Pedestrian portion closer to Harbor Pointe can be even lower, say 8 feet or a bit less.

Assuming Harbor Pointe refers to the western edge of Harbor where the bridge connects to Disney property, I'm perplexed how there would be enough clearance for pedestrians to pass under the Monorail beam on the bridge even with an 8' clearance underneath. The Monorail beam along edge of the property isn't very high. It's what, 20' maybe? Am I missing something?

 

[jbradway]

The monorail part is where I got confused. If the monorail track stays, how does the pedestrian bridge continue? Does it require lowering the southbound side of Harbor to gain the necessary clearance?

Pretty much what Hans is asking...

 

[Darkbeer1]

I wouldn't be surprised if they used Toy Story for Cast Members and only use it as an overflow parking lot for guests on busy days.

Won't happen for many reason, at least until a long time in the future.

Currently Disney is taking away CM parking on busy days to add guest parking in the shared Toy Story/Katella CM lot.

The city needs more parking for its Convention Center across the street due to its expansion plans.

And Disney will need more parking with its increased capacity with Star Wars Land (and also maybe due to DCA expansion).

Plus the need for more parking for the new 4th Disney Hotel near ESPN Zone. (and surprisingly hasn't been mentioned that it might get changed/converted to part of the new Hotel. Disney owns it, and has dropped the franchise as a unit, they just run it since they own the land). The one I love, and that might happen, the Rainforest Café also loses its lease, and then the DtD Monorail station returns to "Hotel" use as part of the 4th Hotel. That decision is years away.

So the current plan, when the new Eastern gateway project is open and operating, Pumbaa will become the main parking for those going northbound on I-5 (think San Diego) and on slow days, Toy Story won't open to guests. This saves Disney in shuttle bus costs, and takes traffic off of Harbor (what the city wants).

Toy Story will open when Pumbaa is full, which is expected to be every weekend and most of the summer and holiday periods.

Disney is currently looking at new options for CM parking, the best known one is converting the new Harbor and Ball CM lot (former RV park) into a structure. Disney has also been looking at property on the east side of I-5 on Anaheim Way as an option.

But it looks like the Simba CM area will be converted to more DtD guest parking with occasional Convention Center use.

Also the parking north of Mickey and Friends used by CM's is in danger of being converted to guest use.

So to summarize, if anything Toy Story will expand guest parking, and that it might not open before opening on very slow days.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I think it's a safe assumption that the entire "pedestrian connector" on the east, as well as it's meandering counter-part on the west will both gently slope up to the Harbor crossing. My guess is that the grade will just meet the requirements to eliminate the need for elevators, etc.

Correct, the current plan has the ramp meeting ADA requirement in regards to slope and flat rest areas, and no elevators are part of the plan proposed. Of course, changes could be required.