New Disneyland Parking Garage and Transportation Hub

[Darkbeer1]

I think we do know that it won't be. Not sure why it would need to be.

While the city won't pay for the truly submerged section for many reasons, including closing down Harbor for the change, there is some talk of a small lowering under the bridge, maybe only the right lanes going southbound, to allow the bridge and ramp to start reducing its slope.

So some lowering, but then you have to look at water flow and sewer issues and who will pay for those changes.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Plus the need for more parking for the new 4th Disney Hotel near ESPN Zone. (and surprisingly hasn't been mentioned that it might get changed/converted to part of the new Hotel. Disney owns it, and has dropped the franchise as a unit, they just run it since they own the land). The one I love, and that might happen, the Rainforest Café also loses its lease, and then the DtD Monorail station returns to "Hotel" use as part of the 4th Hotel. That decision is years away.

I can see this. The south end of the hotel in the DTD sector could basically function like the DTD side of the Grand Californian, with hotel rooms above and retail spaces below. Cool.

 

[jbradway]

All of these issue with monorail and road clearance brings me back to my original thought. Why didn't they think about going under Harbor with a pedestrian tunnel. This can't be more expensive than re-routing monorails and building a long bridge.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I wonder if there will be ticketing at the new transportation hub. Seems like a good place to buy tickets and do security all in one place.

No plans, in fact Disney is trying to get rid of ticket booths.

They want folks to buy in advance, print at home, use smartphones and barcodes.

Heck, they haven't used all the ticket windows in the Esplanade in a long time. So if anything, expect to see a couple of current ticketing buildings be removed for the new project to help traffic flow.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

This can't be more expensive than re-routing monorails and building a long bridge.

And what about MiceAge's claim that the Monorail is being rerouted to accommodate the pedestrian bridge over Harbor Blvd and the DCA expansion?

"The new route will take the beam parallel to the existing inbound beam, before it makes an S-curve across the Esplanade to meet the current route through the rest of DCA. The Disneyland Monorail is currently scheduled to close on April 17th, 2017 and remain closed through at least October, although those dates could change a bit this far out."

 

[Darkbeer1]

Why would Disney want to alienate the Harbor "Good Neighbor Hotels" when Disney seems to have no desire to compete in the value market? That's a lot of business to drive away when you already have your four times higher priced hotels running at near capacity all the time. If they could drive them to a similarly or slightly higher priced Disney property, fine, but that doesn't exist.

Ok, I know, I have had a lot of responses, and will get to them, but currently on page 5 of the thread and trying to catch up and respond to the older posts.

So as to what Disney wants, they are looking for the highest "money spent per day, per guest on property", and do understand that unlike WDW that they can't control the Hotel market. But they can try and get the guests staying off property to have a "larger wallet" to spend. And why Disney has worked with companies like Wincome to get new 4-star Hotels to be built.

Disney has no incentive in regards to value Motels near the park. Of course, there will always be some, but more than likely will be located farther away, such as north of Ball on Harbor, and south of the Convention Center.

 

[flynnibus]

Thanks for the kind words, just found this thread, and I should add a few things that might help the discussion.

Welcome DB!! I hope you stick around.. I miss you on the forums! The DLR section here isn't massive.. but it's not crazy-land and we have real admins!

 

[lazyboy97o]

All of these issue with monorail and road clearance brings me back to my original thought. Why didn't they think about going under Harbor with a pedestrian tunnel. This can't be more expensive than re-routing monorails and building a long bridge.

Because it would require moving all of the associated utilities plus the expensive complexities of keeping the road above open.

 

[Darkbeer1]

True, it is all just speculation. I'm just not convinced that after 18 years of not having so much as a churro cart out there in that bus loading area that they are suddenly going to fill all that newly created expansion space with more Downtown Disney. As if TDA suddenly realized a bunch of tourists arrive and depart every day via Harbor Blvd. Who knew?!?

I could believe 25% or less of this new footprint would be for retail and the Resort's fifth Starbucks location. But my hunch is that at least 75% of this space is going to be for DCA park expansion.

Of course, many plans up in the air, and many changes will be made, but TP2000 is pretty much on the money, at least in my educated Humble Opinion (which is worth the same as the free samples you get at COSTCO).

Expect some places to shop and dine near the costuming building at the west end of the bridge ramp, but that a lot of the area is being held for "future park expansion" whatever that means.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

And why Disney has worked with companies like Wincome to get new 4-star Hotels to be built.

Very enlightening!

For those who are unfamiliar there's more here:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/anaheim-722304-city-disney.html

 

[TP2000]

MiceChat had this in their rumor update today:

By next spring the vertical construction on the new parking structure at the Eastern Gateway will be well under way. Planning documents filed by the city clearly show the office building occupied by the United States Customs and Immigration Services (USCIS) office still there once the project is complete by the fall of 2018. Disney secretly purchased that land back in 2013, but the lease for that federal government office runs until the year 2020 and Uncle Sam has rebuffed every attempt from Disney to coax them out of that long lease. So the USCIS building will remain in the middle of this complex until then. But once the lease ends in 2020 Disney will determine how to best use that space based on the first few years of operation of the Eastern Gateway complex.

http://micechat.com/136176-miceage-disneyland-rumor-update-monorail/

Meh, who needs Miceage Updates? You already got us that info a week ago!

 

[Darkbeer1]

All of these issue with monorail and road clearance brings me back to my original thought. Why didn't they think about going under Harbor with a pedestrian tunnel. This can't be more expensive than re-routing monorails and building a long bridge

OK, getting close to catching up in the conversation.

Why not an underpass, costs and who would have to pay for it, and issues.

Remember that when the Disneyland Drive bridge for Downtown Disney was built, the entire Disney Drive portion was closed for years (was known as West Street) to allow the road changes to be made, including all the infrastructure that had to be moved, and then the needed things addressing water drainage on the roadway (Yes, it does sometimes rain here in SoCal).

So it is the wallet controlling this issue. The current plan has Disney paying for it directly (unlike the Disneyland Drive project) and that Disney can control costs better than using city contracts for labor, supplies, etc.

An educated guess, at least three times as much. For example, public records show a recent pedestrian bridge on the Las Vegas strip costs about $5 million for one ($20 million for the entire corner). And Nevada has lower costs, especially in the permitting and regulations of building it.

As I stated, the Monorail might get a track change, but trust me, Disney is looking at ALL the possibilities and the overall costs, plus the need to keep the city happy and traffic moving on Harbor (very limited road closures). Only time will tell.

 

[TP2000]

Holy Churros! @Darkbeer1 just dropped in out of thin air and gave us a thousand things to ponder and mull over! I feel like it's 1998 all over again! Darkbeer, I must say you are a name I have long admired and enjoyed your information for years on websites that no longer exist.

I am literally going out the door to meet family for dinner and will have to wait to read all this stuff, saving it all for a nightcap in the den late tonight. But great to see you are alive and well and I can't wait to dig into this info later!

 

[Figments Friend]

The man...the myth...the legend.....
The 'Beer' is here..!

 

[Darkbeer1]

And what about MiceAge's claim that the Monorail is being rerouted to accommodate the pedestrian bridge over Harbor Blvd and the DCA expansion?

"The new route will take the beam parallel to the existing inbound beam, before it makes an S-curve across the Esplanade to meet the current route through the rest of DCA. The Disneyland Monorail is currently scheduled to close on April 17th, 2017 and remain closed through at least October, although those dates could change a bit this far out."

Ok, I guess this is time for Darkbeer's History update, and let's start with TP2000's comment about 2010.

Yes, I got married early 2010 (even made the OC Register front page and a OC Register video), and that did cause a change in focus.

Also, around the same time, MiceAge, which started when Al Lutz's left Mouse Planet and I joined him a bit later was undergoing changes with ownership and control. So I decided to stop contributing due to those changes, and other issues. I still have contact with them, see them at special park events and have no personal issues with any of them. But I also left other well known Disney/Theme Park sites after working for them, in the Media business it is very common.

Also, with Marriage comes changes, and after almost 50 years being alive (Yikes, I am 56 now, oh well), this was my first (and still) only one, and happy to say going very well. My free time was lessened, and things like needing to buy a new House took priority and jobs that paid more than just a second hobby income. (aka Tax accounting, and government liaison work).

But Theme Parks are still a passion and I have never left, and still have a lot of contacts. Some of my work went to magazines (Aren't those in-flight magazines great reading with awesome pictures , and a deal I made with a couple of Media production companies to help produce shows for places like the Travel Channel, mostly behind the scenes, but occasionally in front of the camera. I also had to sign some non-disclosure statements which limited to what I could post/write about, as much of the work was covering new projects. So I ended up from quoting "off the record" people to becoming one.

I did get the nice new house, needed to stay in the Orange County area due to my Wife's job with the County of Orange, and ended up with a house that ironically in the "crow's path" between Disneyland and Knott's. ( It was the house that matched our needs after looking at many different locations in North Orange County).

So this story hit home, had a lot of knowledge from multiple sides (insiders at Disney, non-Disney Hotels and restaurants, and city employees and similar things), same as the STR issue (my house is right across the street from one of the biggest ones). Also one of my main non-disclosure agreements ended when the large project opened earlier this year up the road.

That said, what MiceAge is currently reporting, I have no direct knowledge, but I have seen the plan that was mentioned, but as I have stated earlier, Disney has not given it the green light, and is waiting for the process with the city to work itself out in regards to phase 1 of the Eastern Gateway project and has serious concerns in regards to budgets. Yes, there are plans to spend the needed $1.5 Billion (including the extension of 45 years of no admission tax).

Like all the well known Disney rumor websites, that is what we (myself included) do. Get the inside info and report it, with the understanding that we try and get second sources and understand that things change in the future. I actually have some great concept art signed from projects that were changed after being made. So take it as what it is, a peek into the possible future. Same as the moving walkways on the Eastern Gateway project.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Welcome DB!! I hope you stick around.. I miss you on the forums! The DLR section here isn't massive.. but it's not crazy-land and we have real admins!

Well, when the story broke about the Eastern Gateway, the DISboards came up in a Google search as popular, and I had an account I used on a rare location, I started there, and of course, got the expected reaction from a very few people to shut up and go away (though most have been very happy with the info provided), and what caught Baloo, the MiceChat poster attention.

I decided to add my comments here after reading the thread and seeing the comments where for the most part level headed, of course with some disappointment, as some folks don't like changes.

I am excited for the upcoming changes with Star Wars Land (or whatever they might change the name to), and the DCA changes (though part of me will miss the Tower of Terror theme), but still, to make those changes, you have to make other changes, including increased parking since the Fire Marshall will increase capacity due to more area available for guest access. But I also understand the disappointment of their "Favorite Motel" having to change access points. But I also am glad that the traffic flow will be improved for the vast majority, which isn't just Disney park guests, but also everyone else that has to access that part of town.

So you might see me around for awhile.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Very enlightening!

For those who are unfamiliar there's more here:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/anaheim-722304-city-disney.html

Just to add, Disney bought the Carousel from Wincome, and kept them as the Management team after becoming the "landlord". Amazing "small world", eh?

 

[jbradway]

Thanks for all the info and the responses Darkbeer. I enjoyed reading your posts tonight and way back when. Which reminds me, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you write up something about 6 years ago on MC about a project very similar to what is happening with the eastern gateway? Even details about the pedestrian bridge over Harbor and Disney looking for a hotel to buy out. I seem to recall moving walkways were possible.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Assuming Harbor Pointe refers to the western edge of Harbor where the bridge connects to Disney property, I'm perplexed how there would be enough clearance for pedestrians to pass under the Monorail beam on the bridge even with an 8' clearance underneath. The Monorail beam along edge of the property isn't very high. It's what, 20' maybe? Am I missing something?

First off I am not an engineer or architect, nor do I play one on TV

But there are issues, including the returning track to Tomorrowland. They have used different heights to help deal with the issue decades ago, and one option is to just do that, change the height of the track, but once again, you have limits on slope, just like the bridge, trains in general can't handle steep slopes and need gradual ones. Cost wise, keeping the current supports and just raising/lowering the height is an option, and is a lower cost version as compared to a total re-route, at least that is what I have been told.

So looking at a combination of a small grade change on Southbound Harbor (we are talking lowering the roadway one to two feet), the allowance to have "low clearance" on the right lane of southbound Harbor, and rerouting the current sidewalk and bus stop, and even a land swap looks like the lowest cost on the menu, add to that a change in just Monorail track height, and you have a very workable solution. But the problem for Disney, the city part of the deal has to go thru public reviews and other government agencies (think the State and Regional government agencies), and it leaves Disney without a true "green light" to move forward. As stated, Disney did pick the August 9th filing for specific reasons.... IMHO, Disney's main goal, to get the Eastern Project up and running before Star Wars Land opens. And the city wants the additional expected traffic dealt with.

What that means is the total east side of Harbor, the bridge and the western ramp, the new Toy Story (for lack of a better term) Shuttle area, a workable new Security gate for it, and a workable, if not complete revamped CM Shuttle area next to Harbor Pointe. Work on the "middle" section where much of the current Transportation Hub is can start after that.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Oops, I lost the quote of post jbradway as part of a minor edit to correct spelling, so that is what I am responding to....

If you go back in history and the original agreement for the Disneyland Expansion from a park to a resort (aka Westcot, then DCA), the city wanted it as a future part of the plan and expected at least one more parking structure as part of the deal a couple of decades ago. (Gee, I am getting old). Then Disney and the city had to address things with the DCA expansion to improve the park in the 2000's (including losing more guest parking), and more deals and promises were made.

So yes, it has been a long term story, and I did mention some of the possibilities when I wrote for MiceAge.

And why I had to laugh (alas, internally and couldn't really comment when the Disney spokesperson stated they had no long term plans for the Carousel when they bought it at the time). Let me just state that I know some owners and senior managers of some of the non-Disney Hotels and Restaurants on the west side of Harbor and get some inside info. Disney for decades has standing offers to buy all of them, just like the Strawberry Fields south of Harbor and that long story before the family sold out for the new Toy Story lot. The price does change based on current conditions (currently higher), but every owner on Harbor Boulevard near Disney has an offer to buy when they want to sell.

In this case, Disney KNEW they needed something to make the city happy in regards to the no admission tax deal, and had to buy something. A deal was made with Wincome to get what they needed, and that might have been more than just a straight cash deal....

As I posted at DISboards recently, some folks just don't want to know how sausage is made, but on the other hand, some find it very interesting. (Check out the shows on channels like Food Network, Travel Channel, FYI and others that take you inside those factories).

And some sausage, like cheese and wine need time to age.....