Lee
Adventurer
Not the point, clueless.
THAT is the point.
Tumble is only a small piece of the larger issue.
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More Disney Fun with Social Media (pics included!)
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
To be clear, the photographers who participated/are participating in TWDC's social media experiment with Tumblr should be paid. These are professional photographers (even if Tom considers it a hobby, I consider his work to be worthy of that designation) who would not work for free. No matter the client.
When it is your job, when you are good at what you do -- and these folks are, you do not offer your work for free. TWDC is exploiting these talents if they were not paid and, worse, taking their work for the benefit of Disney absent proper compensation. (And, no, as these are established photogs, there is no need to showcase their work without compensation. Much less, for a company with the deep pockets of Disney.)
I started this thread to see if any folks in the fan community had insight on this. Obviously, we know one does. The questions are real, fair, and reasonable. Yet ... what we have again has devolved into the apparently very acceptable MAGICal attacks on me personally.
Curiously, remarkably, every time -- EVERY TIME -- the topic of TWDC co-opting the fan community and further blurring the line between a paid BRAND ADVOCATE for Disney and a member of that same community is raised a few folks appear to shout down the conversation taking place at any cost. These folks often take very personal shots at me and others, while being every-so-sensitive to any comment, no matter how neatly framed, that might suggest in common terms that they are perhaps being less-than-forthright in putting up their comments.
To those who like to shout down my comments, and frequently say outrageous things about me ...that's alright, unlike others, I can take it ... I do wonder how many out there are legitimately attempting to make a point and how many are being paid to post. Just how many 'brand advocates' are on these sites expressly to work to undermine thoughtful discourse?
Did anyone else notice the use here of the softer and, arguably, more 'official' sounding word ambassador?
It is well-known that part of most companies' social media strategy includes employing individuals to monitor sites like this one with several screen names to derail discussions that deviate from the drumbeat of the company or brand. Here, that would, of course, be Disney. Sometimes, when the topic gets too hot for them, TWDC seeks to actually shutdown an entire website by disrupting the conversation.
For those who espouse to know so much about social media, without the conversation there exists no such thing. Just advertising disguised as something else. No more than talking points for corporate. PR Puffery. And, with TWDC, lots and lots of Pixie Dust.
I see the word jealousy mentioned on this thread by a few vocal DIStractors. Considering I am someone who believes -- who insists -- these folks should be paid for their work, I am astounded by the flawed 'logic' (agenda?) at play here.
Only in this odd frontier where people and companies say whatever they want and need not explain -- unlike this Spirit -- the position(s) they take does this seem to gain traction. And, to me, I wonder pointedly, to what end?
When it is your job, when you are good at what you do -- and these folks are, you do not offer your work for free. TWDC is exploiting these talents if they were not paid and, worse, taking their work for the benefit of Disney absent proper compensation. (And, no, as these are established photogs, there is no need to showcase their work without compensation. Much less, for a company with the deep pockets of Disney.)
I started this thread to see if any folks in the fan community had insight on this. Obviously, we know one does. The questions are real, fair, and reasonable. Yet ... what we have again has devolved into the apparently very acceptable MAGICal attacks on me personally.
Curiously, remarkably, every time -- EVERY TIME -- the topic of TWDC co-opting the fan community and further blurring the line between a paid BRAND ADVOCATE for Disney and a member of that same community is raised a few folks appear to shout down the conversation taking place at any cost. These folks often take very personal shots at me and others, while being every-so-sensitive to any comment, no matter how neatly framed, that might suggest in common terms that they are perhaps being less-than-forthright in putting up their comments.
To those who like to shout down my comments, and frequently say outrageous things about me ...that's alright, unlike others, I can take it ... I do wonder how many out there are legitimately attempting to make a point and how many are being paid to post. Just how many 'brand advocates' are on these sites expressly to work to undermine thoughtful discourse?
Did anyone else notice the use here of the softer and, arguably, more 'official' sounding word ambassador?
It is well-known that part of most companies' social media strategy includes employing individuals to monitor sites like this one with several screen names to derail discussions that deviate from the drumbeat of the company or brand. Here, that would, of course, be Disney. Sometimes, when the topic gets too hot for them, TWDC seeks to actually shutdown an entire website by disrupting the conversation.
For those who espouse to know so much about social media, without the conversation there exists no such thing. Just advertising disguised as something else. No more than talking points for corporate. PR Puffery. And, with TWDC, lots and lots of Pixie Dust.
I see the word jealousy mentioned on this thread by a few vocal DIStractors. Considering I am someone who believes -- who insists -- these folks should be paid for their work, I am astounded by the flawed 'logic' (agenda?) at play here.
Only in this odd frontier where people and companies say whatever they want and need not explain -- unlike this Spirit -- the position(s) they take does this seem to gain traction. And, to me, I wonder pointedly, to what end?
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
It amazes me that some on this forum seem to do nothing but take pot-shots at members like '74 and the other insiders and accuse them of being liars or having an agenda or not knowing what they're talking about. If they annoy you so much or you choose not to believe the information or opinions they provide then hit the ignore button, it really is a simple solution to all of your grievances.
Ah, so stating that someone might be 'slow' here ought to get your post edited in the middle of the night, but it's OK for an imbecile (can we use that?) such as you to call me 'clueless'?
Yes. I have an issue with paying what you term ambassadors unless it is specified that the corporation is indeed doing that. I don't know why you ... or rather any thinking person would have an issue with this unless they had a specific agenda.
Really, that's my purpose. What's yours?
This is a Disney messge board and yet some people only want to talk about MAGIC and Pixie Dust. Fans should be the most critical of consumers. But I'm sure a guy/gal as smart as you must know that.
THIS.
Why is THIS so hard for people to get?
Oh, yeah, some people have other agendas like shouting down legit discussions or taking potshots at those of us who dare question why Disney is doing certain things.
This is patently untrue.
Stop getting your news from FOX, CNN, MSNBC and CNBC and you'll find there are plenty of real reporters out there.
And yet YOU have a problem with folks having opinions and asking questions here.
What an amazing first-class hypocrite.
Sorry I forgot you were just "asking a question" and not bringing your anti-Disney agenda to a Disney forum as usual. Very ironic that I am the one called troll. And why do you care what I think anyway? Apparently I'm just a Disney employee trying to derail your troll, remember?
It's simple really. They should just be required to post disclosures that they recieve actual monetary or in-kind compensation from TWDC for their work.
In the biomedical community, we do this all the time when we give talks. It is requried for publications in major journals and at national meetings. I mean you don't have to connect the dots, but you do need to say for example, that drug company X provided an education grant for you to attend the meeting at which you are presenting data on company X's product. Now, that doesn't by itself gurantee bias, but at least the critical public has all the info on which to base their assessment of your conclusions.
Why this isn't required for other fields is beyond me.
In the biomedical community, we do this all the time when we give talks. It is requried for publications in major journals and at national meetings. I mean you don't have to connect the dots, but you do need to say for example, that drug company X provided an education grant for you to attend the meeting at which you are presenting data on company X's product. Now, that doesn't by itself gurantee bias, but at least the critical public has all the info on which to base their assessment of your conclusions.
Why this isn't required for other fields is beyond me.
Atomicmickey
Well-Known Member
Do you have some idea who the brand advocates are here, will you be willing to name names?
Can you or will you name those members that are doing that? And how do you know that they are?
Can you please give a specific example where this has happened, where the company has actively sought to shut down a website? Do you have documentation of this activity?
Being paid for what they do sounds fair to me. Though as a creative I have sometimes done work for free that has given me a different benefit than money.
And finally, you have specifically called out Lou Mongello as a "hidden employee" or "contractor" for TWDC.
Could you please list the other sites that you have knowledge that they are being paid by the company
to espouse their views?
I really am interested in sorting this all out, and knowing more about what I'm reading on all the sites
that I visit. This, I assume, is your point, correct? That we would know the motivations behind the
news and info that we get? That we can sort out the 'paid shills' from the fans? Can you help me do that?
I'd like to see this all move from innuendo to actual documented facts, that's all.
I hope this all reads as dispassionate and non-confrontational, and not hostile in any way. I'm truly curious
about all of this, and I don't hold a negative opinion of you, WDW1974, so nothing
personal. I suppose I'm more steps removed from the situation than a lot of people here,
so I don't know specifically the incidents, websites, and people that are being discussed.
I'd like to, so that I can better understand what I'm reading.
TalkingHead
Well-Known Member
We've all seen the travel magazines with those multi-page advertisements promoting a specific region (like Florida) made to look like "just" another innocuous article from a journalist -- and prominently displayed in those ads will be language to the effect that they're paid advertisements. You know you're getting a biased opinion (like maybe North Florida isn't the greatest place to spend your vacation time, even though the ad promises you that Gainesville is as charming as Islamorada
) and you can weigh that information accordingly. That's what's missing with social media -- it's anyone's guess if the opinion is bought or not.
Welcome to 21st-century corporate America.
On the upside, maybe if we're lucky Disney's found the next Ansel Adams or Paul Strand or Man Ray.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
janoimagine
Well-Known Member
On the upside, maybe if we're lucky Disney's found the next Ansel Adams or Paul Strand or Man Ray.
That made me giggle.
Sadly I feel their will never be another Man Ray. Their are too many good photographers today but not many great ones.
OK, if that's really the case, I'm gonna just answer by saying you didn't hit your mark. Try again? ...
Atomicmickey
Well-Known Member
Well, then, I'll offer a public apology. I really just want to understand the "who's, when's, and where's"
of this whole thing.
If you want, we can take it to PM, or if you don't want to answer, well, that's your perogative.
Again, I appreciate what you bring to this forum, enjoy your posts, and mostly agree
with you on your perspectives of TWDC and all things parks. I'm not looking to start a fight,
I tried to word things politely, but such is the nature of internetz forums sometimes.
I could ask specific questions by listing sites that I visit and have found helpful, perhaps
you could share info that you have about them? Maybe that's a start, I don't know.
I know the photog Tom Bricker, whose work I truly admire, is on this forum, has he
responded?
Anyway. Not hostile....so, sorry.
asianway
Well-Known Member
Good rule of thumb is if they're on the invite list for press junkets, free cruises, etc they would be one to be wary of...
A good primer is the social media thread on another Disney website, I'm sure spirit would be happy to pm you the link if you want the full education
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Why...the NYT? That paper is on Disney's leash, used by TWDC to do combat with its online critics through covert messages.
NewfieFan
Well-Known Member
For real? I always thought we were just a blip on Disney's radar, I find it hard to believe they would spend money to employ people to mess with us and our discussion!?!
Interesting job, though! "So what do you do for a living?" "I'm a professional internet troll, and you?"
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Methinks Disney understands social media very well, and has a keen strategy of its own role in it. An all too keen strategy, which is the problem. Sadly, not one limited to TWDC.
Modern media has empowered the consumer, the weak, the citizen. But the balance seems to be shifing again, towards the corporation, the mighty, the government. They are quickly wising up.
Atomicmickey
Well-Known Member
Thanks! However, I don't have access to invite lists? Are those posted somewhere?
And, why not just share the link, if you know where it is? Why all the sneaky sneak?
Isn't this all about transparency? I'd love the full education....