Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[Kamikaze]

Others have said it, I'll repeat it: Fix it the right way. The monorail system has been up for 40 years. It needs a couple weeks of downtime. Fix the tracks. Do some heavy maintenance on trains. Plan it ahead of time, let guests know. Do it in the offseason, offer a subsidized cost to those staying at the monorail resorts during that period, add buses to Epcot, increase boats, even add an MK bus if the boats can't handle it.

While I agree with your ideas, there is no reason they couldn't do a systematic shutdown of one beam at a time. Express, Resort, and Epcot lines all separately. Resort being down causes the most problems, so do that one when its most convenient. Run buses direct from the monorail resorts (besides Contemp to MK, its not even a 5 minute walk) to the parks.

 

[alphac2005]

Others have said it, I'll repeat it: Fix it the right way. The monorail system has been up for 40 years. It needs a couple weeks of downtime. Fix the tracks. Do some heavy maintenance on trains. Plan it ahead of time, let guests know. Do it in the offseason, offer a subsidized cost to those staying at the monorail resorts during that period, add buses to Epcot, increase boats, even add an MK bus if the boats can't handle it.

Do you consistently inconvenience guests, albeit a few hours a week, plus run the risk of breakdowns, or do you inconvenience two weeks worth of guests and have the monorail running whenever the park is open? I go with the latter. Besides, 3-6 hours a week isn't going to make the difference. I don't think it will, at least.

Keep in mind, the complaints aren't entirely about the EMH cut. I see this as a symbolic cut more than anything. Prices keep on rising, quality keeps on declining. You want proof, it's right in front of you.

Excellent post. I'm tired of the endless apologists who'll point out that this can make sense in the economic environment. The problem is that they had been slashing and burning the upkeep and quality of the resort throughout the boom years.

This is just another symptom of MBA's running Wall St. and the corporations of this country. Their spreadsheet analysis where they are looking so hard at numbers, they destroy quality, loyalty, and eventually their customer base. The Walt Disney Company's handling of WDW looks to a textbook replay of how bean counters took over the American auto industry and made it devoid of quality, innovation, and desire. Instead, they took the attitude of whatever we build, the drones will buy. In the end, they produced garbage for years and the public stopped buying their product. Current management has done this to the parks. So in the end, they damage their bottom-line because their short term revenue infusions by cutting and charging more run lead to less people consuming their product and/or spending less when they are there, whether it's the days on property, food, merchandise, etc.

I lived in Orlando for more than half the past decade, had AP's for a decade and half, spent countless dollars, and after our trip in June, it's our last for a long time. I tired of giving them money based on past performance. Even the biggest apologist should be able to clearly acknowledge that the quality has nosedived.

 

[Thrill]

While I agree with your ideas, there is no reason they couldn't do a systematic shutdown of one beam at a time. Express, Resort, and Epcot lines all separately. Resort being down causes the most problems, so do that one when its most convenient. Run buses direct from the monorail resorts (besides Contemp to MK, its not even a 5 minute walk) to the parks.

Even better. A week or two for each beam, and add another monorail to allow for long term maintenance to each train.

I can't see how closing the monorail during EMH helps the trains. As far as I know, they run fewer trains during EMH to begin with, and they can't service every train at once. As for the tracks, again, how much of a difference can those few hours a week make? They can take the cruise ships out of service for two weeks every couple of years, there's no reason that they can't take the monorail beams down every few years for two weeks.

For the express, run a bus from the TTC to MK.
For Epcot, add an Epcot bus to the monorail resorts.
For the resort line, lower the rates for that time span, and add an MK bus to Polynesian and Grand Floridian. Maybe add Contemporary to the bus if it's raining.

I feel like they're going to need to do it eventually. Do it now before it gets worse.

 

[Kamikaze]

Even better. A week or two for each beam, and add another monorail to allow for long term maintenance to each train.

I can't see how closing the monorail during EMH helps the trains. As far as I know, they run fewer trains during EMH to begin with, and they can't service every train at once. As for the tracks, again, how much of a difference can those few hours a week make? They can take the cruise ships out of service for two weeks every couple of years, there's no reason that they can't take the monorail beams down every few years for two weeks.

For the express, run a bus from the TTC to MK.
For Epcot, add an Epcot bus to the monorail resorts.
For the resort line, lower the rates for that time span, and add an MK bus to Polynesian and Grand Floridian. Maybe add Contemporary to the bus if it's raining.

I feel like they're going to need to do it eventually. Do it now before it gets worse.

I really can't see it making much difference. Even if it amounts to the max, which would be two hours per night, thats not even an additional two work shifts a week.

 

[GeneralZod]

Last I checked, there is no monorail to DHS...so drop that number down to 2.....one can argue that staying on a monorail resort, the only true advantage is traveling from mk to your resort, as you have to travel 2 different trains coming home from epcot, and go down and back up the ramps at the ttc....plus, I've gotten back to my home resort from epcot faster by bus than monorail....heck...if I got to skip the lines, I'd be riding the busses all over mk...

Even if it's two nights out of a week...big whup....the problem still remains. You need more continuous down time....where do you make the cut?

I think you completely missed the point here and by three I was referring to the two nights at MK and one at Epcot that host EMH.

Why is it even ok for them to make a cut? If your monorails need more down time (not sure what the means, this isn't Cars you know ) then purchase more and rotate them. Expensive? Sure, but so is the increasing cost I pay to stay at a deluxe monorail resort on a yearly basis.

Does anyone know what the current maintenance schedule is?

 

[sshindel]

I think you completely missed the point here and by three I was referring to the two nights at MK and one at Epcot that host EMH.

Why is it even ok for them to make a cut? If your monorails need more down time (not sure what the means, this isn't Cars you know ) then purchase more and rotate them. Expensive? Sure, but so is the increasing cost I pay to stay at a deluxe monorail resort on a yearly basis.

Does anyone know what the current maintenance schedule is?

For things from a maintainance perspective, look through this thread for posts by "peachykeen". They seem to have some inside knowledge on the maintainance issues and times.

 

[JillC LI]

Who else would be using the monorails during EMH except for those staying at the Deluxe resorts?

I would. We usually drive our rental car to the TTC and take the monorail to the MK for the day. If the monorail is not running when EMHs end at the MK, how will I get back to my car? Is there a ferry to the TTC in addition to the MK resorts?

 

[draybook]

I would. We usually drive our rental car to the TTC and take the monorail to the MK for the day. If the monorail is not running when EMHs end at the MK, how will I get back to my car? Is there a ferry to the TTC in addition to the MK resorts?

This. We park our rental at the TTC and ride the monorail over. Yes Jill, the ferry runs to the TTC after EMH.

 

[Kamikaze]

I would. We usually drive our rental car to the TTC and take the monorail to the MK for the day. If the monorail is not running when EMHs end at the MK, how will I get back to my car? Is there a ferry to the TTC in addition to the MK resorts?

You've never seen the ginormous ferry boats on Seven Seas Lagoon?

 

[puntagordabob]

I have a simple question for the readers here. For those of you saying "all the little things add up" and "you're paying for services you aren't getting", do you guys still go to WDW?

And if you read my earlier response, we're not going back next year. And quite honestly, maybe not after that for a couple of years. We've been wanting to go to Hawaii and other places. However, we already had this trip in September booked back in August of last year, well before the monorail decision. We didn't start going until 08, so I haven't been around long enough to notice any declining that started before that. However, I can promise you that a cutback WDW is better than a regular Memphis any day. Not to mention that we actually cut a couple of days off of the Disney portion to add to IoA/US.

I think the answer is that the majority of people would still go to WDW...but that it would be less frequent..and would be for a lesser number of days.

As for the tipping point, you are already there... Less frequency of trip and less days when you do as you wrote above is precisely what most of us are thinking...not some mass exodus leaving the resort empty!

I suggest that your anger is misdirected in more ways than one. First, stop blaming Disney for cost cutting when they are trying to improve the stability of the system. Second, start blaming abusers of WDW's (and 99% of non handicapped guests) Very generous handicapped tolerances....And not those that call attention to the abusers....

I'm not sure what your picture accomplishes? Can I post a picture of my daughter's split lip from 2008....which occurred on an overstuffed bus that comfortably carried a party of 10, one of which was an evc abuser of the most foul variety....still I was tolerant of that issue then....perhaps if I post a picture of what my daughter looked like the next morning, I can selfishly feel better that my illogical point may be better received.....:hammer:

Again, if you don't like this change....stay elsewhere...I still think that the overall result of this service cut will be positive.....if not for allowing disruptive service to be performed during down times, then there might be a slight reduction in selfish vacationers staying on property...doubtful, but a guy can hope....

LOL I am not angry with Disney... I am disappointed.

I am angry with you for your Holier than Thou attitude....your lack of tolerance toward those with disabilities...your feelings that since this change doesnt effect you then to heck with those Guests that it does (they need to get over it)... and on and on.

Also how dare you compare your daughter's lip being injured (though I am sorry this happened to her!) on a bus trip to my son's Lifetime Handicap that forces him to use a wheelchair... On WHAT PLANET does your comparison even make sense??

As for your comment for us to accept this change or stay Elsewhere with the inferred point that we have no right to voice our displeasure at this move was a mistake...as it shows WHO the "selfish vacationer" is....

My argument that Disney needs to increase the monorails continuous downtime each nite in order to make needed repairs/maintenance to the system?

Or that the extremely small demographic of 'evc riding EEMH attendees who can still ride a bus first in line' should see the bigger picture?

I'm not sure how posting family portraits accomplishes that, but, if it works for you....great!:sohappy:

It shows that YOUR generalization of the handicapped Guests is a bunch of Cow Manure...and the fact that you still are arguing this point is a giant wad of spit by you into my Son's face along with the multitudes of other legitimately disabled folks who visit WDW.

While I am sorry that your daughter was injured, I still don't see how that minor non-life threatening non-permanent non-life altering injury compares with the struggles and needs of someone that uses a wheelchair as a daily living tool. How you can say that someone who was riding an ECV on the bus that night was an abuser? You have no idea what daily struggles that person goes through and why they needed that ECV. When you get down to it, you chose to get on that overloaded bus. The ECV user had NOTHING to do with your child being injured. They had just as much right to transportation as you did. I find your intolerance of people's needs to be very offensive.

+1 I agree... people who snub down those who are less fortunate should be FORCED to walk in those shoes for a day and see how they feel then.... but then again some folks will NEVER get it because they feel they are better than the rest of us.

You really are drinking the Kool Aid. Cutting service for maintenance issues is indicative that there is a severe maintenance problem. Even major cities replace their trains and buses when they no longer can be properly maintained. Whay can't Disney maintain 12 monorail trains? Obviously it is time to replace them, but to say this is an acceptable alternative to replacing them is ridiculous.

Agreed.....

Listen, the point is this is not about wanting more maintenance, convenience, ECV usage (that point should have been dropped a loooong time ago), but it's about overall quality.

Disney, like many other companies, is trying to squeeze out every last drop it can of $$. But if you look at things over recent years, their pattern has been to a little bit at a time cut back on things, that when you add it up it makes a difference. Someone earlier mentioned to appetizer with the DDP, but it was also the tip being dropped as well, and for what, they cut the price $1? At the same time, the menus at all of the sit down restaurants have been cut way back to better fit into the DDP, thereby limiting your choices.

Hey, don't forget the EMH character greetings gone as well.

And someone along the way mentioned ticketed events, and if you've been to them, they also have been cut back on as well.

So yes, we might just shut up and shuffle along and keep going to WDW, but our family has started to cut back on how long we go and instead go to other non-Disney destinations. We still vacation the same amount, but Disney gets less of my $$.

To your point in BOLD this guy wont stop either...just rattles on about how all the disabled people are taking inconveniencing him and his family... WAAA WAAA want some Swiss Cheese to go with that wine!

Also agree with the remainder of your post... the declining quality is sad when its a Meet & Greet or whatever(and lets remember TDO is not an enemy!!!! Sometimes they have to do whats best for the resort even if it isnt popular...BUT IN THIS CASE THEY CREATED THIS PROBLEM BY ROBBING THE PROPER FUND FROM THE SYSTEM), but the monorail change is on a different level entirely IMHO!

Others have said it, I'll repeat it: Fix it the right way. The monorail system has been up for 40 years. It needs a couple weeks of downtime. Fix the tracks. Do some heavy maintenance on trains. Plan it ahead of time, let guests know. Do it in the offseason, offer a subsidized cost to those staying at the monorail resorts during that period, add buses to Epcot, increase boats, even add an MK bus if the boats can't handle it.

Do you consistently inconvenience guests, albeit a few hours a week, plus run the risk of breakdowns, or do you inconvenience two weeks worth of guests and have the monorail running whenever the park is open? I go with the latter. Besides, 3-6 hours a week isn't going to make the difference. I don't think it will, at least.

Keep in mind, the complaints aren't entirely about the EMH cut. I see this as a symbolic cut more than anything. Prices keep on rising, quality keeps on declining. You want proof, it's right in front of you.

Hey I love WDW very very much.... I doubt anyone would ever question that.... and for a long time I wore the rosy colored glasses....in fact I still do a lot....but there is no denying that the claim of declining standards is gaining credibility in the eyes of more and more Guests...and not just the "fanboys" as some say, but it is spreading now like a cancer amongst the "average" Guests..... Consider THAT for a moment.... The reality of it scares me to be honest..... take one item (Lights of Winter since that was mentioned by another poster in this thread) and it isnt really "a big deal" in the grand scheme of things, right? Add up quite a list of others and it does begin to take a toll on the PERCEPTION of WDW by the average Guests...... perhaps nothing that is going to shut WDW down today, but who is to say where The Disney Company will be in ten years...heck with the other rumors out there that seem to be gaining some alarming traction WDW may not even be majority OWNED by The Disney Company (though in my heart I hope & pray that this rumor ends up being false!) in ten years..... And while it would be nice to dream of an owner like The Oriental Land Company, it is far more likely that a Walmarting of WDW would be the end result.

 

[JillC LI]

This. We park our rental at the TTC and ride the monorail over. Yes Jill, the ferry runs to the TTC after EMH.

You've never seen the ginormous ferry boats on Seven Seas Lagoon?

Thank you both. I was just coming back to edit my post to say that I finally found the answer to my question on page 15 of this thread! I've never paid attention to the ferry boats because I just hopped on the monorail and assumed the ferries were for the MK resorts. Live and learn!

 

[Kamikaze]

Thank you both. I was just coming back to edit my post to say that I finally found the answer to my question on page 15 of this thread! I've never paid attention to the ferry boats because I just hopped on the monorail and assumed the ferries were for the MK resorts. Live and learn!

The launches to the resorts are the smaller boats.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

Really late to the party here, but...I can confirm what Steve reported early on, this is being called a "permanent change." And that brings me to my beef with this. Obviously, the "maintenance" aspect of the earlier closing is completely necessary. However, TDO looks to be using this as a cover for something bigger. Some of the more vocal geniuses in this thread have been fussing it's just for EMH one or two nights a week...but the closure happens 1 hour after park close (which includes, as others have pointed out: MNSSHP, MVMCP, and other private/hard ticket events). So it's quite a bit more than 1 or 2 nights a week fo just 1 or 2 hours. If this change is for beamway maintenance, (or as the official company info says "scheduled transportation system maintenance" )then fine...but why is it permanent? Once the beamway is back in spec, then train maintenance can be handled in many other ways then completely shutting down the system. The "permanence" of this decision is what bothers above all else.
Also, I have had the privilege over many years and trips to WDW to stay at the monorail resorts a handful of times. We just planned a trip for October, staying at Pop, with the idea of saving money for a follow-up trip next summer at CR or Poly. Sounds like I should just switch to a moderate, WL, or Epcot Resort for both trips and call it a day.
I'm no Doom and Gloomer, but if the declining by degrees keeps up, I just might have to sign up for the club.:shrug:

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Another wrinkle to this:

If I owned DVC at the BLT, I'd be awfully upset about this. The massive selling point for the BLT is location and access. And an even bigger concern I would have as an owner would be the maintenance fees, which surely are partially directed squarely at monorail infrastructure and maintenance (a main reason I think they built the BLT, by the way... To get someone else to pay for a good chunk of monorail maintenance without having to jack monorail resort room rates even higher).

Historically, the maintenance fees have only raised like 3-4% a year, I think. But I believe the documentation says that the fees COULD be raised by as much as 13% YEARLY? Going off memory there. But I'm just wondering if TDO won't look at that as an easy way to cover whatever they want to do with the monorail. BLT owners (and soon, GF owners?) are captive. They'll have to pay up... The contract says so. If they don't, Disney takes their points back and re-sells them to the next guy in line that is willing to buy in.

I predict a fairly large jack upward in MF's in the coming years for the BLT, and the highest ever MF's for the GF right out of the gate when it gets built.

 

[draybook]

I think the answer is that the majority of people would still go to WDW...but that it would be less frequent..and would be for a lesser number of days.

As for the tipping point, you are already there... Less frequency of trip and less days when you do as you wrote above is precisely what most of us are thinking...not some mass exodus leaving the resort empty!

I concur, but this question is for everyone; do you all think they would take notice if people just quit coming, or do you think slowly limiting your attendance would get the job done?

If I owned a restaurant and people quit coming in to eat, as opposed to simply ordering less food, I'd take notice in a heartbeat. This just seems more logical to me. If people really want to make a statement to TDO, then quit going period. Don't just give them less of your money, don't give them any. Then make sure you contact TDO management either through emails or by phone, and let them know why your bucks are staying at home with you.

 

[puntagordabob]

Another wrinkle to this:

If I owned DVC at the BLT, I'd be awfully upset about this. The massive selling point for the BLT is location and access. And an even bigger concern I would have as an owner would be the maintenance fees, which surely are partially directed squarely at monorail infrastructure and maintenance (a main reason I think they built the BLT, by the way... To get someone else to pay for a good chunk of monorail maintenance without having to jack monorail resort room rates even higher).

Historically, the maintenance fees have only raised like 3-4% a year, I think. But I believe the documentation says that the fees COULD be raised by as much as 13% YEARLY? Going off memory there. But I'm just wondering if TDO won't look at that as an easy way to cover whatever they want to do with the monorail. BLT owners (and soon, GF owners?) are captive. They'll have to pay up... The contract says so. If they don't, Disney takes their points back and re-sells them to the next guy in line that is willing to buy in.

I predict a fairly large jack upward in MF's in the coming years for the BLT, and the highest ever MF's for the GF right out of the gate when it gets built.

Agreed!!!! When I called DVC a couple days back when this news was released on here this was one of my points about the MFs etc.....

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I concur, but this question is for everyone; do you all think they would take notice if people just quit coming, or do you think slowly limiting your attendance would get the job done?

If I owned a restaurant and people quit coming in to eat, as opposed to simply ordering less food, I'd take notice in a heartbeat. This just seems more logical to me. If people really want to make a statement to TDO, then quit going period. Don't just give them less of your money, don't give them any. Then make sure you contact TDO management either through emails or by phone, and let them know why your bucks are staying at home with you.

Some people can quit smoking cold-turkey.

Some have to gradually cut back.

:animwink:

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

Excellent post. I'm tired of the endless apologists who'll point out that this can make sense in the economic environment. The problem is that they had been slashing and burning the upkeep and quality of the resort throughout the boom years.

This is just another symptom of MBA's running Wall St. and the corporations of this country. Their spreadsheet analysis where they are looking so hard at numbers, they destroy quality, loyalty, and eventually their customer base. The Walt Disney Company's handling of WDW looks to a textbook replay of how bean counters took over the American auto industry and made it devoid of quality, innovation, and desire. Instead, they took the attitude of whatever we build, the drones will buy. In the end, they produced garbage for years and the public stopped buying their product. Current management has done this to the parks. So in the end, they damage their bottom-line because their short term revenue infusions by cutting and charging more run lead to less people consuming their product and/or spending less when they are there, whether it's the days on property, food, merchandise, etc.

I lived in Orlando for more than half the past decade, had AP's for a decade and half, spent countless dollars, and after our trip in June, it's our last for a long time. I tired of giving them money based on past performance. Even the biggest apologist should be able to clearly acknowledge that the quality has nosedived.

Very good post, very true, not only in the US but also, on a smaller scale in many European countries.

 

[puntagordabob]

Everyone always asks "What would Walt" say? Did some searching woo and behold -----> We actually know the answer:

I knew if this business was ever to get anywhere, if this business was ever to grow, it could never do it by having to answer to someone unsympathetic to its possibilities, by having to answer to someone with only one thought or interest, namely profits. For my idea of how to make profits has differed greatly from those who generally control businesses such as ours. I have blind faith in the policy that quality, tempered with good judgment and showmanship, will win against all odds.
-Walt Disney

...yeah if the leaders in the halls of power at WDW have forgotten how Walt thought things were done... and before someone says "What worked then wouldnt work today" I counter you with a TWO WORD answer than proves Walt was right TODAY: Tokyo Disneyland

 

[bunnyman]

To your point in BOLD this guy wont stop either...just rattles on about how all the disabled people are taking inconveniencing him and his family... WAAA WAAA want some Swiss Cheese to go with that wine!

Hey, I'm defending ECV usage. I was just trying to say it is time to drop that topic as much of the discussion is getting way off base and inappropriate. If you read my earlier posts I was citing having traveled with an 85 year old who used an ECV also.