Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[mickeysaver]

Big Thunder is right....assuming you're there for a week, you are mildly inconvenienced ONE night out of 6.....so you put your scooter into drive and get to skip the bus line ahead of tired dads carrying sleeping children on both arms, while you sit on a padded scooter chair and get royal preferential treatment.....and just for one night out of six....:brick:

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but assuming this change to the monorail schedule is going to result in measurable increases in monorail service quality, do you realize how utterly selfish you sound?

Heck, on my last trip, I had to hoof it back to the CR one night because the monorail was down....it didn't ruin my vacation, I didn't ask for a refund because I stayed in a monorail resort and couldn't use it one night out of 6....and I certainly would have stay in a monorail resort again, despite the outtage....planned or not.



Wow!

Um, have you considered that there are other people with me, like my partner who does more than the average guest in helping me with some needs throughout the day as well as the fact that we have a toddler? Selfish, not so much, I am concerned with the needs of other families like ours or even more in need of the access to the monorails than we have, being that we are now locals and don't stay on property much anymore.

The experience when we stayed on property in the monorail resorts in respect to transportation was always great when it was the monorail that was getting us around property, the boats and busses left a lot to be desired. The same can be said now, when we leave a park to dine elsewhere. The issue is not just late night park goers, but also those who wish to enjoy entertainment, dining, and adult beverage dispensing establishments at the monorail resorts and to some extent the Boardwalk area. This is going to put a major kink in those plans for some people, especially those who are caught without prior knowledge with the ability to make alternate arrangements.

I am not really griping for me, but I can see how these changes would have really made some of my most magical evenings of the past, far less magical if those same nights were to occur after these changes had been implemented.

 

[bunnyman]

Then the solution is to ether stay at the wilderness or a moderate....remember, this only affects those that take full advantage of EEMH at two parks....I just don't get the outrage. If those extra magic hours in the evening are SO tied to ones use of the monorail, then a person should either complain or vote with his or her feet...

But I'd be willing to hazard a guess that most people in this thread are not ecv riders staying the parks till 2am on EMH nights...and likely never will be impacted by this change. They're just because it gives them another drum to beat against big bad cost cutting tdo...

No, it's purely economics. If you are willing and able to pay for an expected service, and don't get it, then someone at Walt Disney Co. has to explain why. They have to be careful because eventually, they're going to outsmart themselves versus the competition. Yes, by all means you can stay at another non-monorail resort, but why not take it a step further and stay off property at a just as nice resort for a heck of a lot less and more bang for your buck. For the same $310 a night I'd pay for the Wilderness, I could stay at the Bonnet Creek Hilton for $209, and get a free hot breakfast to boot.

 

[PirateFrank]

Oh, and by the way, I've traveled with an 85 year old parent that needs assistance, and you'd be surprised how many people have shoved him out of the way to beat him onto a bus since there really isn't anyone at each stop to organize things. At a monorail station (or via a boat, but you can't take a boat back to the Poly from Epcot), usually a boarding person will make sure he gets on.

This is surprising, in that most bus drivers immediately get off and police the situation....more often than not, I've seem ecv riders who are morbidly obese or perfectly capable of walking, get to jump an entire queue of patient bus waiters....they get on the bus before throngs of exhausted parents and children....they get their scooter stowed away by the bus driver, a choice seat that the stand up and are perfectly capable of walking to and sitting down on, the entire party that's with this one so-called handicapped person gets their pick of preferential seats on the bus....then and only then does the bus driver allow other riders on....where parents holding babies and children on their hips, dangerously standing on a motor vehicle driving 50mph down the road are forced to look at the ecv-drivers party happily sitting down and enjoying their ride.

This disgusting display happens on every bus line in WDW...a simple shift in policy forcing ecv/handicapped riders to wait just like everyone else has to, will more than make up for the frustration that may have caused the situation you just described.....

 

[sshindel]

Actually, your math is pretty good, but extrapolate it out a little to get to the real reason:

"Hey Bob, I know how we can get rid of almost a week and a half's worth of payroll...stop running the monorails for EMH! Let's see, then we can save on electricity by having the tracks off those same hours. Ha, I know, we'll also tell them it's for more maintence, but those $$$ paying dupes will never no the difference if we just locked the barn doors 3 hours early. Hey, they eventually stopped complaining when we cut back on daily cleaning in the parks, so now there's harldy anyone picking up the trash anymore..."

Take a look a the lines for rides throughout the day, and you'll notice they're generally gross with garbage. In the old days, you'd have someone every now and then with a dust pan come through and pick up trash. They're long gone. So before everyone gets all excited how this is going to finally allow them the time to really fix the monorails, just remember it's another example of declining by degrees.

2 Question though based on this.

Do they send the Monorail Maintenance folks home currently on the EMH nights when they know that the monorails will be getting only a "passby" maintaince check because they stop running around the time they are due to start back up.

How many CMs are involved in the operation of the monorails during EMH? 1 or 2 pilots / monorail? Support personal? Some forms of tower control? Would the total number of people affected be 25? 50? 100? Just looking for a general scope.

I'd assume (maybe wrongly) that a monorail maintainence person probably makes more / hour than most monorail support persons (maybe not pilots or control, but not sure). If they are paying their maintainance folks currently to do nothing or less than they should be doing, I dont think that the cost savings would be as drastic by reducing the staffing of the "front end" side and getting true value out of their "back end support".

Now, electric costs + staffing + all other things I'm missing, maybe it does add up enough to be worth the cost savings alone to do this regardless of the maintainence concerns. I just personally believe that the cost savings alone dont add up to be enough for them to put this into effect.

And let me say this about any ECV bashing on here. Just stop. This is one of the most important concerns I've seen raised on here, and those folks affected MUST contact customer service about this. It may not be enough to get the monorails turned back on, but maybe they can provide handicapped accessible vans or something to return you and yours directly to your resort. This seems like it would not be a massive cost addition and I feel that your viewpoint needs to be heard.

 

[mickeysaver]

Go fly a kite.

Bravo! :sohappy:

 

[PirateFrank]

No, it's purely economics. If you are willing and able to pay for an expected service, and don't get it, then someone at Walt Disney Co. has to explain why. They have to be careful because eventually, they're going to outsmart themselves versus the competition. Yes, by all means you can stay at another non-monorail resort, but why not take it a step further and stay off property at a just as nice resort for a heck of a lot less and more bang for your buck. For the same $310 a night I'd pay for the Wilderness, I could stay at the Bonnet Creek Hilton for $209, and get a free hot breakfast to boot.

Would you prefer the monorail to not work at all? The point that seems to be missed by everyone screaming "tdo is screwing us, those cheap ________________!" is that the system apparently needs the downtime....

Please, stop crying foul on a situation and offer a solution. If you need to change continuous downtime on a system from 3 hours to 5-7 hours...where do you suggest the change?

 

[puntagordabob]

For the same $310 a night I'd pay for the Wilderness, I could stay at the Bonnet Creek Hilton for $209, and get a free hot breakfast to boot.

You know we have never seriously looked at Bonnet Creek.....perhaps we will check it out sometime....they also have a timeshare there too correct?

 

[bunnyman]

This is surprising, in that most bus drivers immediately get off and police the situation....more often than not, I've seem ecv riders who are morbidly obese or perfectly capable of walking, get to jump an entire queue of patient bus waiters....they get on the bus before throngs of exhausted parents and children....they get their scooter stowed away by the bus driver, a choice seat that the stand up and are perfectly capable of walking to and sitting down on, the entire party that's with this one so-called handicapped person gets their pick of preferential seats on the bus....then and only then does the bus driver allow other riders on....where parents holding babies and children on their hips, dangerously standing on a motor vehicle driving 50mph down the road are forced to look at the ecv-drivers party happily sitting down and enjoying their ride.

This disgusting display happens on every bus line in WDW...a simple shift in policy forcing ecv/handicapped riders to wait just like everyone else has to, will more than make up for the frustration that may have caused the situation you just described.....

You know, watch yourself. Not every ECV rider is how you are making them out. The 85 year old I described is a WWII D-Day vet, who only uses one in the parks to cover the long distances. The rest of the time he's standing proudly in line with a cane, getting pushed out of the way as the stampede of ignorant rude people push him out of the way to get on first. The last time I was there, he was left standing in the aisle while some dumb idiot sitting there turned to his other and said "Hey, did ya all see that there Bud Lightyear today?" Hence, this is why he likes the monorail hotels, as he generally doesn't have the same problems as with the buses.

 

[bunnyman]

You know we have never seriously looked at Bonnet Creek.....perhaps we will check it out sometime....they also have a timeshare there too correct?

Yup!

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

I agree.....


Also what also is being ignored by these "its only 1 day a week" posters is that this is NOT accurate....

The announcement says this is tied to MK's normal hours.... so you must add EPCOT's EMH days to this.

If I remember correctly during our last stay in September (11 days) we even had 2 Evening-EMH in the MK in a week! I was very happy about that because we stayed at the Polynesian from the sixth day on. The Evening-EMH in the MK were available more often than in the other parks. Add EPCOT that would be not serviced by the monorail during EMH and it's already three possible evenings in one week where your WDW-vacation is hampered by this decision.
And to those who ask "how many people use EMH in the evening"? A damn lot! I used every single EMH in the evening during my 10 days at the parks and a lot of rides were still quite crowded even after midnight. Peter Pans lines didn't shorten gradually before 1 AM.

 

[njDizFan]

Then the solution is to ether stay at the wilderness or a moderate....remember, this only affects those that take full advantage of EEMH at two parks....I just don't get the outrage. If those extra magic hours in the evening are SO tied to ones use of the monorail, then a person should either complain or vote with his or her feet...

But I'd be willing to hazard a guess that most people in this thread are not ecv riders staying the parks till 2am on EMH nights...and likely never will be impacted by this change. They're just because it gives them another drum to beat against big bad cost cutting tdo...

Okay so we get it, it doesn't effect you(and probably me), so why all the fuss? It's just a small cutback, that might effect only 250 families a week. Heck, either love it or leave it right?

It's just TDO being fiscally responsible. We don't need all the AA's to be working at the same time either, or an appetizer with my DDP, or all those cool pyrotechnics on firework shows. If you had to list all the "little" things that we lost, I think you might agree it adds up to a lot.

 

[bunnyman]

Would you prefer the monorail to not work at all? The point that seems to be missed by everyone screaming "tdo is screwing us, those cheap ________________!" is that the system apparently needs the downtime....

Please, stop crying foul on a situation and offer a solution. If you need to change continuous downtime on a system from 3 hours to 5-7 hours...where do you suggest the change?

I have no problem shutting the line down for the necessary maintenance. Then all they have to do is lower the room rates to be more in line with the other area non-monorail deluxe hotels (i.e. Animal Kingdom and Wilderness). I'm also willing to pay a premium to stay at the Boardwalk, Beach Club, and Yacht Club, as you can walk into Epcot and DHS without a need for a monorail. You can't walk to the MK from the Poly and GF.

So, you've missed my point. It's not about shutting down the line, it's about getting what you paid for.

 

[mickeysaver]

This is surprising, in that most bus drivers immediately get off and police the situation....more often than not, I've seem ecv riders who are morbidly obese or perfectly capable of walking, get to jump an entire queue of patient bus waiters....they get on the bus before throngs of exhausted parents and children....they get their scooter stowed away by the bus driver, a choice seat that the stand up and are perfectly capable of walking to and sitting down on, the entire party that's with this one so-called handicapped person gets their pick of preferential seats on the bus....then and only then does the bus driver allow other riders on....where parents holding babies and children on their hips, dangerously standing on a motor vehicle driving 50mph down the road are forced to look at the ecv-drivers party happily sitting down and enjoying their ride.

This disgusting display happens on every bus line in WDW...a simple shift in policy forcing ecv/handicapped riders to wait just like everyone else has to, will more than make up for the frustration that may have caused the situation you just described.....

Have you ever considered that some of those folks that ride the ECV's have health issues that preceeded their obesity? Have you ever considered that some of the "healthy looking" people that are on ECV's have Lupus, MS, or some other silent illness that robs them of life's basic functions even though they look able bodied enough? Have you ever considered how much someone on an ECV loathes riding on the bus because of people like you? ECV users are not on ECV's for fun. We are on them because in order to enjoy our time out in public as best as possible, we need one. We don't do it to get to the front of the line at the bus stop or to attempt to get preferential treatment anywhere. They are a tool that we use to be able to wring as much normal function out of our lives as we can.

For those that gripe about us getting on the bus first, have you ever stood around outside of the bus and waited for me to get unloaded so that we can all go into our destination together? I dare say that your answer is most likely no. As for me getting my choice of seat, that's not always the truth. I have had what appear to be able bodied young men that refused to get up out of the designated handicap seats in order to let me sit in them and had to climb up steps in the rear of the bus in order to sit down. Climbing stairs is not much fun for me. I can still do it, but that won't always be the case. The main reason that ECV riders are placed in seats is due to the instability of an ECV rider in the seat of an ECV when being driven around curves inside of that bus. They tend to tip a bit because of the center of gravity, which could cause the rider to be dumped and injured. It's not like we want to take up 3 seats (2 for ECV and 1 for me).

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Yep as the Dad of a teenage son in a wheelchair these changes are not good news for us.... we like to stay at the monorail resorts for a lot of reasons, but the quality of my son's experience (monorail use is much better for him than the busses where he is always conscious of him skipping the lines, kicking people out of their seats for his wheelchair, and being strapped in...and the boats in the MK resort are require us to fold his chair and BEARHUG him aboard and I suspect that as a teenager this is a blight upon his feelings of being independent.

Thanks for sharing this. These are points that I hadn't thought of, having not been in the "situation" you're in. I can imagine it's both a blessing and a curse.

Perhaps others should read these words from Puntagordabob and realize that until you slip on his shoes, you probably shouldn't suggest you know what's good for him.

 

[misterID]

Again, I don't see any outcry over the decision, safety is best and if they NEED to do this, than they should. Absolutely.

The problem is that it's got tto his point and THIS decision had to be made at all. It's been heading to this point for a very long time. people saw the problems coming, even on this very board, for quiet a long time. They could have begun transitioning to new monorails a long time ago. They decided not to. Enter: Problem. Guest anger...

 

[puntagordabob]

This is surprising, in that most bus drivers immediately get off and police the situation....more often than not, I've seem ecv riders who are morbidly obese or perfectly capable of walking, get to jump an entire queue of patient bus waiters....they get on the bus before throngs of exhausted parents and children....they get their scooter stowed away by the bus driver, a choice seat that the stand up and are perfectly capable of walking to and sitting down on, the entire party that's with this one so-called handicapped person gets their pick of preferential seats on the bus....then and only then does the bus driver allow other riders on....where parents holding babies and children on their hips, dangerously standing on a motor vehicle driving 50mph down the road are forced to look at the ecv-drivers party happily sitting down and enjoying their ride.

This disgusting display happens on every bus line in WDW...a simple shift in policy forcing ecv/handicapped riders to wait just like everyone else has to, will more than make up for the frustration that may have caused the situation you just described.....

I posted a pic of my sons (one in a wheelchair) in a previous response.... I take offense to your holier than thou attitude.... I suggest you drop this load of crap about handicapped use of the busses as it is peeving me off and I suspect I am NOT alone in this feeling.

Would you prefer the monorail to not work at all? The point that seems to be missed by everyone screaming "tdo is screwing us, those cheap ________________!" is that the system apparently needs the downtime....

Please, stop crying foul on a situation and offer a solution. If you need to change continuous downtime on a system from 3 hours to 5-7 hours...where do you suggest the change?

Monorail system is essentially a mass transit system...in fact they have monorails running in various places around the world ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Monorail that is but one example...... but if you dont truly input sufficient money to maintain/update/upgrade it as needed then the system will fail over time. THAT is WHY we are where we are....

NOW it is going to cost A LOT MORE to bring the system back to where it needs to be, even more to bring it up to where it NEEDS to be for today and tomorrow's changing needs of the resort.

Telling me to "stop crying foul" on the situation when the answer has been known all along but has been ignored for the suits in accounting to PLUS the books makes me "SCREAM FOUL"

 

[PirateFrank]

You know, watch yourself. Not every ECV rider is how you are making them out. The 85 year old I described is a WWII D-Day vet, who only uses one in the parks to cover the long distances. The rest of the time he's standing proudly in line with a cane, getting pushed out of the way as the stampede of ignorant rude people push him out of the way to get on first. The last time I was there, he was left standing in the aisle while some dumb idiot sitting there turned to his other and said "Hey, did ya all see that there Bud Lightyear today?" Hence, this is why he likes the monorail hotels, as he generally doesn't have the same problems as with the buses.

No offense intended here (although some will take offense, so be it) but the point is I've never seen the situation you described....I have always seen evc/handicapped riders getting first ofthe line preferential treatment, sometimes at the expense of others. Nothing to argue there...it's fact and likely codified in WDW transportation policy....

The point is that such a small demo of people (evc riders that use EEMH at epcot or mk) is getting affected here and they think Disney is out to screw them to make the income statement look a little better....really?!?!

This company bends over backwards for people in wheelchairs and ecv's, legitimate or not....queue advancing everywhere except restaurants, prefered viewing locations for parades and fireworks....

And the company decides to address a failing infrastructure with needed schedule cuts and the first reaction is 'they're scrooing us, damn Meg crofton!!'

 

[sshindel]

I have no problem shutting the line down for the necessary maintenance. Then all they have to do is lower the room rates to be more in line with the other area non-monorail deluxe hotels (i.e. Animal Kingdom and Wilderness). I'm also willing to pay a premium to stay at the Boardwalk, Beach Club, and Yacht Club, as you can walk into Epcot and DHS without a need for a monorail. You can't walk to the MK from the Poly and GF.

So, you've missed my point. It's not about shutting down the line, it's about getting what you paid for.

Again with my fuzzy math. I dont know why I am doing this.

So, as someone did the math earlier difference between I think base contemporary and base WL was $135/night, meaning that the bonus of having a monorail (not getting into any other differences in ammenities as it is probably even) is worth $135 / night.

If you stayed a week, used the monorail for every trip to and from the park (again assuming you just went in the morning and left in the evening) and went to every EMH you could.
That would mean that with the new system 11 out of 14 trips would be unaffected, 3 of 14 would. Meaning your total usage would be 11/14ths of what it was for a week long trip. I used this to come up with the fact that your transportation is now worth 78.5% of what it was previously

reduced that would mean your transportation is only 78.5% of what it used to be, so about $106/night.

Would a reduction of $29/night off the rack rate make those upset less upset? Just curious.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I'd rather go to WDW and half to wait on a ferry or bus then not go at all.

This is not a personal attack... But you're the textbook customer WDW wants. Sure, you might notice the cutbacks... But hey, 20% less quality in WDW is still better than no WDW, right? And sure, prices all continue to raise every year too... But... Inflation or something.

I'm not casting stones at you. I know you said early on that you don't think this monorail thing is a great idea. I'm just making the point that your view will most likely be the majority, and TDO knows that. They know this probably won't effect bookings at monorail resorts, at least not by much. So they'll get the public used to this idea, and 5 years from now, most people won't remember that monorails EVER ran till the end of EMH.

But here's the thing: There WILL be a tipping point. There HAS to be a tipping point. In fact, some might argue that it's either very close, or has already happened, as WDW's parks have either been stagnant or dropping in attendance, and MORE IMPORTANTLY "guest spend"... All while the competition is thriving (uni and DL). They can't continue to dumb down the WDW experience over and over and expect no one to care. Certainly more care now than before. There have been many posts in this thread alone from people that have said this is their "tipping point"... They're shortening trips, going elsewhere, etc.

Anyway... My point is that your viewpoint is what TDO is banking on, literally. They know they don't have to pay attention to us... The vocal minority. Dave and Jane Smith are still going to pack up thier 2.5 kids for a "once in a lifetime" trip to WDW... Because they don't know any better.

 

[draybook]

I have a simple question for the readers here. For those of you saying "all the little things add up" and "you're paying for services you aren't getting", do you guys still go to WDW?

This is not a personal attack... But you're the textbook customer WDW wants. Sure, you might notice the cutbacks... But hey, 20% less quality in WDW is still better than no WDW, right? And sure, prices all continue to raise every year too... But... Inflation or something.

I'm not casting stones at you. I know you said early on that you don't think this monorail thing is a great idea. I'm just making the point that your view will most likely be the majority, and TDO knows that. They know this probably won't effect bookings at monorail resorts, at least not by much. So they'll get the public used to this idea, and 5 years from now, most people won't remember that monorails EVER ran till the end of EMH.

But here's the thing: There WILL be a tipping point. There HAS to be a tipping point. In fact, some might argue that it's either very close, or has already happened, as WDW's parks have either been stagnant or dropping in attendance, and MORE IMPORTANTLY "guest spend"... All while the competition is thriving (uni and DL). They can't continue to dumb down the WDW experience over and over and expect no one to care. Certainly more care now than before. There have been many posts in this thread alone from people that have said this is their "tipping point"... They're shortening trips, going elsewhere, etc.

Anyway... My point is that your viewpoint is what TDO is banking on, literally. They know they don't have to pay attention to us... The vocal minority. Dave and Jane Smith are still going to pack up thier 2.5 kids for a "once in a lifetime" trip to WDW... Because they don't know any better.

And if you read my earlier response, we're not going back next year. And quite honestly, maybe not after that for a couple of years. We've been wanting to go to Hawaii and other places. However, we already had this trip in September booked back in August of last year, well before the monorail decision. We didn't start going until 08, so I haven't been around long enough to notice any declining that started before that. However, I can promise you that a cutback WDW is better than a regular Memphis any day. Not to mention that we actually cut a couple of days off of the Disney portion to add to IoA/US.