Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[njDizFan]

Sadly it seems that infrastructure always gets the short end of the stick. Whether we are talking about the World or the real world. It's just not a $exy investment. But infrastructure is the backbone of any society. Getting people from one place to the next efficiently and safely is what seperates an advanced society.

I'm sure when this plan goes through, in a few years it will all be forgotten and guests will forget there actually was service for EMH. Just like we might forget the LoW, or that the Yeti used to swing his arm. This may effect less people than those examples but just another sign of budget cutbacks that will soon dispaear into Disney history. It's like at a grocery store. That box of Wheaties only increased in price 5% over the last 3 years but did you notice it's actually a small size.

Decreasing guest ammenities rather than plussing their experience is all too common. Sorry, if I don't have the atual figures in front of me but what has changed exactly? are there more people in the parks than 10 years ago? Are the monorails running longer hours than they used to? I believe the answers to both are no.

 

[COProgressFan]

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but assuming this change to the monorail schedule is going to result in measurable increases in monorail service quality, do you realize how utterly selfish you sound?

I don't think its selfish at all to get the services that are promoted as being available at your very expensive Disney resort hotel on the monorail line. How is it selfish to get your money's worth?

Again, as other posters have mentioned, if monorail service wasn't important, guests could have paid much less and stayed at another resort.

 

[PirateFrank]

You are "not trying to sound like a jerk" but make it sound like everyone in a ECV/wheelchair unfairly get preferential treatment over a dad with tired kids because they need assistance getting on a bus?.

Evc/wheelchair riders do not wait in any bus lines....they can advance ahead of literally 100s of other riders, without a single justifiable reason to do so. There are plenty of real good reasons why those waiting in lines can front a legitimate gripe over such a thing.... The fairness of such a thing is most certainly a result of your point of view...

Regardless, the issue is whether or not Disney is purposely screwing evc riders that takes full advantage of EEMH..in order to save a few bucks, is downright ludicrous. Just how many people actually fit into your specific demographic? And you don't think you're being selfish?

Perhaps I'm going about this the wrong way....what would you suggest? You have 24 a day....and you need to increase continuous downtime on a system from 3 hours to 5-7 hours in order to ensure proper maintenance? What's you solution? What time of day would you cut?

 

[space42]

I agree, the monorail will never be expanded with the present companies "spirit". Actually I believe the monorail is a heritage of Walt's parks era. Present management would never have built such a magnificent and progressive transportation system in the first way. They would rely on buses and boats alone.

Well said! Look no further than Animal Kingdom to see how new Disney does it. There are no 'magical' transportation options. Even if you shell out big bucks for the deluxe Animal Kingdom Lodge - you take a bus to Animal Kingdom??? Given it's close proximity to the park, how hard would it have been for them to have boat service? Imagine being dropped off right at a dock in front of the Tree Of Life! Or even some type of train - something like the wildlife express. The options are only limited to the imagination... or they used to be....

 

[GeneralZod]

Big Thunder is right....assuming you're there for a week, you are mildly inconvenienced ONE night out of 6.....so you put your scooter into drive and get to skip the bus line ahead of tired dads carrying sleeping children on both arms, while you sit on a padded scooter chair and get royal preferential treatment.....and just for one night out of six....:brick:

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but assuming this change to the monorail schedule is going to result in measurable increases in monorail service quality, do you realize how utterly selfish you sound?

Heck, on my last trip, I had to hoof it back to the CR one night because the monorail was down....it didn't ruin my vacation, I didn't ask for a refund because I stayed in a monorail resort and couldn't use it one night out of 6....and I certainly would have stay in a monorail resort again, despite the outtage....planned or not.



Wow!

Can someone please explain to me how "ONE night out of 6" (I think it is actually three) of extra maintenance is going to magically resolve all of the monorail issues? I am definitely not a mechanical expert so this is probably just above my head, but I don't understand how nine ours per week could make that big of a difference.

Count me in to re-thinking purchasing DVC; NOT simply because I am "mildly inconvenienced", but because this just seems like further cost-cutting.

 

[Scuttle]

I don't think its selfish at all to get the services that are promoted as being available at your very expensive Disney resort hotel on the monorail line. How is it selfish to get your money's worth?

Again, as other posters have mentioned, if monorail service wasn't important, guests could have paid much less and stayed at another resort.

Exactlly. I'm done with the monorail resorts unless they lower prices. Sorry but this is a big time inconvenience trying to get back to your resort. You know how mad people staying at the GF are going to be when they realize they can't even walk there if they want!? I will now be staying at the Lodge or Epcot resorts from here on out.

 

[PirateFrank]

Can someone please explain to me how "ONE night out of 6" (I think it is actually three) of extra maintenance is going to magically resolve all of the monorail issues? I am definitely not a mechanical expert so this is probably just above my head, but I don't understand how nine ours per week could make that big of a difference.

Count me in to re-thinking purchasing DVC; NOT simply because I am "mildly inconvenienced", but because this just seems like further cost-cutting.

Last I checked, there is no monorail to DHS...so drop that number down to 2.....one can argue that staying on a monorail resort, the only true advantage is traveling from mk to your resort, as you have to travel 2 different trains coming home from epcot, and go down and back up the ramps at the ttc....plus, I've gotten back to my home resort from epcot faster by bus than monorail....heck...if I got to skip the lines, I'd be riding the busses all over mk...

Even if it's two nights out of a week...big whup....the problem still remains. You need more continuous down time....where do you make the cut?

 

[Rlevy33663]

Unfortunately in the "preview post" option it doesn't show you how bit the font will be. Wasn't yelling.

 

[puntagordabob]

If we can't get to our resorts we can just sleep at MK, if they question us we have an excuse...

Now that is a perk I would like!

Well, going by your logic, the extra money paid by the deluxe guests is for the monorail perk, so I guess I'm not paying for that loss after all, correct?

I'd rather go to WDW and half to wait on a ferry or bus then not go at all.

Nope...but we are not paying for your transport either from your resort either...but if Disney were to do away with something that hurt transport from your resort I would definitely post in your defense. Why? Because I love WDW...all of it...and any lessening of service at any portion of the resort is a blow to EVERYONE...

As for this not affecting you thats fine... but when they get to axing something you DO care about youll be all up in arms....

You said, "If I had the funds available, I would stay at the Contemporary or BLT, and gladly walk back." Unless you would like to offer another hypothesis as to why these three resorts cost more, then you have stated that you would not mind paying the premium for the service that is not being offered.

If you prepaid for a buffet, would you happily take a single course because you still get food and it is still at Walt Disney World?

LOL when the cut hits them you would be "amazed" how so many of these folks would switch their tunes quicker than you can say it!

I agree, the monorail will never be expanded with the present companies "spirit". Actually I believe the monorail is a heritage of Walt's parks era. Present management would never have built such a magnificent and progressive transportation system in the first way. They would rely on buses and boats alone.

Perhaps so... but the reality is that they HAVE the monorails and they have been deficient in investing to maintain or upgrade it...and now it is coming back to haunt not only them but also us all!

I still dont understand those that are griping over this.

The system wasn't designed to handle this load....Peachy has made it rather clear that it's not just the trains, but the rails that are suffering....

As a manager, I'm not sure I would have arrived to another decision. It boggles my mind how so many are going:

"They have the money, they can buy new trains"..."Disney has tons of cash, they can afford it".....If the current conditions, and I mean, 21-24 hours a day or operation, has brought the current system to its knees, how the hell do you expect additional trains to help?

First, it's going to require an additional capital investment to expand the sheds, in addition to the cost of these trains....which are custom made and will not be sitting on the shelf at the local orlando walmart. Why would any sane company make the decision to invest in a system that is being impacted in a way that extra trains wont help, but actually worsen.

Peachy said it himself. The track is part of the problem here. They need extra hours to make qualitative patches to the concrete rails or else the patches fall off in hours. How on earth does adding another 4 trains to an already taxed rail network help the rail network.

Throwing good money at a problem, just because there's a problem, doesn't make the problem go away.

Reducing EEMH service seems like a more than reasonable solution. The company likely reviewed which end of the day they can afford to reduce service, looked at rider-statistics and quickly deduced that the rider-load in the late evenings is the place to make the cut...and it would impact the overall park guests far less than the morning EMH, which are only an extra hour each day and also carry early bird regular park-guests.


Seriously....I scratch my head. Even when this company does something that seeks to *improve* the quality at the parks, some of you scream that you're not getting your money's worth and the parks are nickel and diming you. Really? :shrug:

You work at TDO? Seriously, a lot of people are saying that this is a longer strategy to kill the evening EMH (they did after all axe all character greets recently for the EMHs too).....

As for the additonal investment....the suits failed to provide the funds to keep the system running in tip-top shape... this not something that "just happened" but is rather a result of long term fiscal policies that allowed the system to reach this point... I salute the transport division for keeping the system running at all with them being provided such inadequate funds and infrastructure demands for the entire system by the evolving resort.

As for last point, I fail to see how shutting down the monorail service "improves" the quality of the parks lol....because all of these problems now in existence along the monorail line are a symptom of the bigger problem: the "decline" in the quality.

Regardless, the fact of the matter is that even if Disney is planning to increase the transportation budget by increasing repair expenditures or train purchases, they may STILL have to cut back service to keep the overall system healthy...

Or....god forbid....they may feel that this cut is more than sufficient to make the system healthy with current repair budgets.....

The sky isn't falling....in fact, from where I'm standing, thanks to this reduced schedule, perhaps the sky will stay put.....and not crack off one chunk after another...

No the sky is not falling... but the quality is along with perhaps the monorail pylons due to all this incompetent lack of spending..... paying for regular maintenance guaruntees nothing, but a LACK OF IT DOES...

Um, what if you are in a wheelchair or need an ECV to get around, then it's way more of a factor and the folks that have these needs stay at Monorail resorts for more than the need of being a wee bit spoiled at WDW, they do so for access to the monorail to reduce their need for use of the busses and boats. Trust me, I would rather wait an hour for a monorail than have instant access to a bus or boat when I am trying to get around property on my scooter.

There are legitimate gripes about these changes!

Yep as the Dad of a teenage son in a wheelchair these changes are not good news for us.... we like to stay at the monorail resorts for a lot of reasons, but the quality of my son's experience (monorail use is much better for him than the busses where he is always conscious of him skipping the lines, kicking people out of their seats for his wheelchair, and being strapped in...and the boats in the MK resort are require us to fold his chair and BEARHUG him aboard and I suspect that as a teenager this is a blight upon his feelings of being independent.

You miss the point. You pay a very large premium to stay at a "Monorail" resort. If I wanted to takes buses and boats, I would stay at the Wildnerness Lodge and not splurge for the Polynesian. And in fact it is not just the MK, but also Epcot. I've stayed at the Poly for the sole purpose of taking of advantage of EMH and being able to take a Monorail back to the Poly (from Epcot and the MK). I'm willing to pay the premium to stay there for that. Are they going to now lower the room rates...I highly doubt it. So stop the "get over yourselves" comments. By the way, they currently don't have buses running from the Poly to the MK, and I've waited for several boats to catch a ride back to the Wilderness Lodge after EMH, and they have the much larger boats. The Poly boats are quite small if you haven't noticed.

Yep I have waiting multiple boat runs too in line.... and that was WITH the monorail running... My imagination is not as good as Figments, but it is hard for me to imagine that these wait times would lessen. Add the Florida weather (rain etc) and these wait times could be even more unpleasent. With the monorail you almost always could wait under the awning while waiting for the resort monorail and once aboard you would be inside the monorail until you were dropped to you resort to a covered departure point.

You hit it right on the head. It's like the movies. Actual numbers of people attending is down, so they come up with 3D to charge 2x or 3x the price to drive up prices. Squeeze more $$ out of less people. Same with the parks. They've driven about all they can through the gates and into their hotel beds, so they cut services, perks, and other things to drive up the per guest return. It is quite common in this economy with company's seeing flat or down revenues, so they cut expenses (i.e. staff, benefits, salaries, fringe benefits, etc.) to keep profits flat or growing.

...Which is like an airplane spiraling downward.....fail to break the downward trend (by keeping cutting this and that etc) by pulling up in spite of the difficulties and eventually you WILL hit the ground KABOOM!

 

[bunnyman]

Last I checked, there is no monorail to DHS...so drop that number down to 2.....one can argue that staying on a monorail resort, the only true advantage is traveling from mk to your resort, as you have to travel 2 different trains coming home from epcot, and go down and back up the ramps at the ttc....plus, I've gotten back to my home resort from epcot faster by bus than monorail....heck...if I got to skip the lines, I'd be riding the busses all over mk...

Even if it's two nights out of a week...big whup....the problem still remains. You need more continuous down time....where do you make the cut?

No one is doubting that they need more down time for maintenance. All some people are saying is that if you're paying a premium for a monorail hotel, and now they cut out the service on the EMH nights, they what are you paying for. It is realized that it is only two nights a week including Epcot and the MK, as DHS and AK don't have monorail service. But if I was going down for a trip and planned on hitting each park once (plus water parks, etc.), and had planned on hitting them on EMH nights, now I have no monorail service home for those two nights. Yes I will still get back to my hotel, but that's not the point. It's a matter of getting what you're paying for. If booked a room for tonight at rack rates, the basic room at the Poly would run you $445, while the non-monorail Wilderness is $310. So, for basically the same general area and both deluxe resorts, you're paying an extra $135 for the Poly.

Oh, and by the way, I've traveled with an 85 year old parent that needs assistance, and you'd be surprised how many people have shoved him out of the way to beat him onto a bus since there really isn't anyone at each stop to organize things. At a monorail station (or via a boat, but you can't take a boat back to the Poly from Epcot), usually a boarding person will make sure he gets on.

 

[Kamikaze]

Unfortunately in the "preview post" option it doesn't show you how bit the font will be. Wasn't yelling.

No worries, just stick with the default from now on. Makes the reading experience much nicer.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No one is doubting that they need more down time for maintenance.

I very much doubt that time for maintenance is the issue. This is about getting hourly Cast Members who pilot the trains and man the stations off the clock sooner. There are plenty of other ways to handle increased maintenance needs, but they all require additional expenditures. This method includes a cut to help the spreadsheets look better.

 

[sshindel]

Can someone please explain to me how "ONE night out of 6" (I think it is actually three) of extra maintenance is going to magically resolve all of the monorail issues? I am definitely not a mechanical expert so this is probably just above my head, but I don't understand how nine ours per week could make that big of a difference.

Count me in to re-thinking purchasing DVC; NOT simply because I am "mildly inconvenienced", but because this just seems like further cost-cutting.

I was going to go into a long convoluted mathmatical explaination as to how the few hours extra time could help out here, but my brain is not working very mathy today. Instead I submit this overly simplified, not complete at all, easy to poke holes in math equation.

3 days a week you get 3 extra hours of maintainence time = 9 hours a week
52 weeks a year * 9 hours a week = 468 hours or 19.5 days

So you get 19.5 extra full days worth of time to maintain the trains and track every year by cutting run time by 3 hours, 3 times a week. Take into account that that if you just closed down for 19.5 days a year, you'd be assuming running 3 maintainence shifts to make it as 24 hours a day, more likely it would be 2 shifts, further bumping out the value of the 19.5 hours.

Add to that the fact that you reduce the hours / miles on both the trains and the track by 19.5 days per year.

Yes, I realize there are a myriad of other factors in place. Not all trains run at all hours, 3 days a week are 2 MK EMH 1 Epcot EMH, which I believe is reduced in the winter, EMH hours themselves vary, so during summer some times no maintainence can be done at all, and winter EMH hours allow some maintainence.

So, as I hope, this is a short-to-mid term (the word Permanant can mean so many things, maybe this just means "we have no time frame to present, or that time frame is so far off we might as well say permanant"). Lets say the change is for 3 years, to allow Disney time to budget, build, and deploy a new fleet and completly refurb the entire track.

Over a 3 year period, using my highly suspect math above, 58.5 days (nearly 2 full months) of maintenance (plus saving 58.5 days of wear) could be gained in order to preserve a failing fleet until a new one arrives or a better solution could be worked out.

Feel free to shoot holes all through this math. :wave:

 

[devoy1701]

Sadly it seems that infrastructure always gets the short end of the stick. Whether we are talking about the World or the real world. It's just not a $exy investment. But infrastructure is the backbone of any society. Getting people from one place to the next efficiently and safely is what seperates an advanced society.

I'm sure when this plan goes through, in a few years it will all be forgotten and guests will forget there actually was service for EMH. Just like we might forget the LoW, or that the Yeti used to swing his arm. This may effect less people than those examples but just another sign of budget cutbacks that will soon dispaear into Disney history. It's like at a grocery store. That box of Wheaties only increased in price 5% over the last 3 years but did you notice it's actually a small size.
Decreasing guest ammenities rather than plussing their experience is all too common. Sorry, if I don't have the atual figures in front of me but what has changed exactly? are there more people in the parks than 10 years ago? Are the monorails running longer hours than they used to? I believe the answers to both are no.

A canister of Folgers was "on sale" for $14.99 yesterday at my local Publix...just saying... :hurl:

:wave:


And you bring up another point that I did early. Monorails were probably running more frequently 2 years ago when the parks hit their highest attendance #s and even in the 90s when MK's regular operating hours regularly stretched into the midnight-1am hours all the time.

 

[puntagordabob]

Agreed with all of the above and I'd like to know why the Disney apologists keep mentioning MK EMH being one night a week...What about Epcot?

I pay significantly more for the perk of the monorail and to leave the rental car at the resort. If I wanted to drive or ride the bus everywhere I'd just stay at POP.

I agree.....


Also what also is being ignored by these "its only 1 day a week" posters is that this is NOT accurate....

The announcement says this is tied to MK's normal hours.... so you must add EPCOT's EMH days to this.

NOW add the Holiday party nights.....the other private party events (corporate or whatever)....and how many days during those time periods will be involved?

IF they were saying theyd at least keep the resort monorail running until 10:30 pm each night then at least I could get back to my monorail resort after a dinner reservation at another monorail resort and they are not even doing that.... but on early MK closings it will be 8pm!!!!! UNCOOL!

Also, let us have a reality check......you will usually wait quite a bit longer for a bus than for a monorail... and with the frequency of monorail arrivals you do NOT have to ride on one that is filled wall to wall like a sardine can if you choose not to (unlike the busses in many cases). I hate the busses when its wall to wall...I am a little clausterphobic to be honest.

 

[BlueLightningTN]

IMHO, shutting down the monorails during extra magic hours is a very poor idea. I would much rather see the ferry shut down, and if the monorail isn't available have backup busses.

 

[draybook]

I don't have a problem with this decision. I have a problem that it's come to the point that this IS the best decision. Little fixes aren't going to solve anything. This decision really isn't going to solve anything. A quick fix always leads to bigger problems in the long run.



You know, you've said a few times this doesn't effect you personally, so you don't really care... But then you just can't stop criticizing people this does effect. And you say you'd like them to stop going to WDW so there are less people in the park... Oh yeah, have fun with the small crowds, we all know how TDO makes up for lost attendance... And no, it's not adding more attractions to bring people in... You'll be paying for their lost revenue in increased ticket, parking and resort prices, shorter park hours, fewer CM's and fewer attractions open, with a lot of attractions and shows becoming seasonal.

... And no, I'm mot saying this particular incident is going cause a mass of people to boycott the parks and stop going, so anyone writing their protectionist over reactionary post can stop now. But I will say that if it continues like this, more people are going to be visiting DLR instead of WDW.

Disney has given me a higher standard for Disney, and I'm not backtracking from that.

I never said I wanted them to quit going. I said that those who are saying that should walk the walk. I will have fun with the small crowds, that's why I go in September. And it's not that it doesn't effect me, because I too need to get back to the TTC, it's that there's still two ways to get to where I need to go.

Trust me, it's not that I don't hold Disney to any standards. I wrote them a very lengthy email and spoke with several reps after our last trip. And yes, we will be visiting the DLR next summer instead of WDW. But that's mainly due to the fact that I haven't been back to California since 1992 and because I was trying to avoid most of the FLE stuff.

 

[puntagordabob]

Evc/wheelchair riders do not wait in any bus lines....they can advance ahead of literally 100s of other riders, without a single justifiable reason to do so. There are plenty of real good reasons why those waiting in lines can front a legitimate gripe over such a thing.... The fairness of such a thing is most certainly a result of your point of view...

Go fly a kite.

 

[bunnyman]

I was going to go into a long convoluted mathmatical explaination as to how the few hours extra time could help out here, but my brain is not working very mathy today. Instead I submit this overly simplified, not complete at all, easy to poke holes in math equation.

3 days a week you get 3 extra hours of maintainence time = 9 hours a week
52 weeks a year * 9 hours a week = 468 hours or 19.5 days

So you get 19.5 extra full days worth of time to maintain the trains and track every year by cutting run time by 3 hours, 3 times a week. Take into account that that if you just closed down for 19.5 days a year, you'd be assuming running 3 maintainence shifts to make it as 24 hours a day, more likely it would be 2 shifts, further bumping out the value of the 19.5 hours.

Add to that the fact that you reduce the hours / miles on both the trains and the track by 19.5 days per year.

Yes, I realize there are a myriad of other factors in place. Not all trains run at all hours, 3 days a week are 2 MK EMH 1 Epcot EMH, which I believe is reduced in the winter, EMH hours themselves vary, so during summer some times no maintainence can be done at all, and winter EMH hours allow some maintainence.

So, as I hope, this is a short-to-mid term (the word Permanant can mean so many things, maybe this just means "we have no time frame to present, or that time frame is so far off we might as well say permanant"). Lets say the change is for 3 years, to allow Disney time to budget, build, and deploy a new fleet and completly refurb the entire track.

Over a 3 year period, using my highly suspect math above, 58.5 days (nearly 2 full months) of maintenance (plus saving 58.5 days of wear) could be gained in order to preserve a failing fleet until a new one arrives or a better solution could be worked out.

Feel free to shoot holes all through this math. :wave:

Actually, your math is pretty good, but extrapolate it out a little to get to the real reason:

"Hey Bob, I know how we can get rid of almost a week and a half's worth of payroll...stop running the monorails for EMH! Let's see, then we can save on electricity by having the tracks off those same hours. Ha, I know, we'll also tell them it's for more maintence, but those $$$ paying dupes will never no the difference if we just locked the barn doors 3 hours early. Hey, they eventually stopped complaining when we cut back on daily cleaning in the parks, so now there's harldy anyone picking up the trash anymore..."

Take a look a the lines for rides throughout the day, and you'll notice they're generally gross with garbage. In the old days, you'd have someone every now and then with a dust pan come through and pick up trash. They're long gone. So before everyone gets all excited how this is going to finally allow them the time to really fix the monorails, just remember it's another example of declining by degrees.

 

[PirateFrank]

No one is doubting that they need more down time for maintenance. All some people are saying is that if you're paying a premium for a monorail hotel, and now they cut out the service on the EMH nights, they what are you paying for. It is realized that it is only two nights a week including Epcot and the MK, as DHS and AK don't have monorail service. But if I was going down for a trip and planned on hitting each park once (plus water parks, etc.), and had planned on hitting them on EMH nights, now I have no monorail service home for those two nights. Yes I will still get back to my hotel, but that's not the point. It's a matter of getting what you're paying for. If booked a room for tonight at rack rates, the basic room at the Poly would run you $445, while the non-monorail Wilderness is $310. So, for basically the same general area and both deluxe resorts, you're paying an extra $135 for the Poly.

Then the solution is to ether stay at the wilderness or a moderate....remember, this only affects those that take full advantage of EEMH at two parks....I just don't get the outrage. If those extra magic hours in the evening are SO tied to ones use of the monorail, then a person should either complain or vote with his or her feet...

But I'd be willing to hazard a guess that most people in this thread are not ecv riders staying the parks till 2am on EMH nights...and likely never will be impacted by this change. They're just because it gives them another drum to beat against big bad cost cutting tdo...