Monorail Accident

[theadmiral459]

Quick question about 9:10 pm last night in the EPCOT parking there was a white machine making a loud noise moving at a good clip on the EPCOT line heading into EPCOT anyone know what that was ? Only one person driving this machine.

 

[deix15x8]

Quick question about 9:10 pm last night in the EPCOT parking there was a white machine making a loud noise moving at a good clip on the EPCOT line heading into EPCOT anyone know what that was ? Only one person driving this machine.

That was probably the one of the monorail maintenance units. They are often used for towing and general repair.

 

[Pens24]

Why was the monorail running so late?...epcot closed at 10 so why were people on it at 2 and the monorail still running then

 

[SilentWindODoom]

After taking a loot at the diagram that was just posted, I decided to take a look at the satellite of the resort to trace a monorail's trip to the shop. I'm guessing that after reversing through the TTC, the monorail would then begin going forward on the Seven Seas Lagoon loop through the Contemporary and off the spur that heads to the monorail storage. To me it wouldn't make much sense to go reverse all the way around the other way, but even if one did, it does not appear that either way would have one drive into the shop forward. The spur comes off the line so that it appears the only way to switch on it would be if the monorail was going clockwise, while, if it switches onto the loop the way that diagram suggests, going forward would take the train counter-clockwise. One would either have to go in reverse and switch off or pass the spur, switch directions, and then switch off in reverse.

Kind of nitpicky, and off-topic, but I don't understand how this would work. :shrug: Could someone explain this?

Also, sorry that my terminology is fairly badly off regarding the monorail, but I'm not really an expert when it comes to monorail operations, and using the terms I just learned last night reading this thread sounded too forced and out of place, like Spongebob rapping. I just used the terms that I would naturally call things.

 

[PhotoDave219]

So IN MY OPINION, last night Pink was coming in Reverse in MAPO Override (as required to pass over a switch) but instead of being on the Spur Line, was in fact still on Epcot beam. I do not know why the Pilot did not realize this, but that is not for me to debate. At the same time, Purple was MAPO Overriding from pylon 385. The pilots did not realize their RED MBS was not from a switch being open, but in fact due to the other train. So Pink came through Concourse at 15mph in reverse (as restricted by computers) as Purple was approaching Concourse in forward, in MAPO Override, just past pylon 385 (as indicated by the photos showing it past the tram loading area) and this is where the collision I believe occured.

A tad more detailed but that supports everything I've said and was told.

Thanks for filling in the details as for hold points, procedures, etc.

 

[wdwmomof3]

It's just tragic.

 

[WishIwasThere]

From what it seems from other websites...Purple was stopped at the station ready to pull out to go over to Epcot, when pink backed into it at 15 MPH thinking it was on the MK beam not on the Epcot beam. They said that purple was backing up so that purple could go back to the monorail barn. I guess the pilot thought the beam had been shifted already and that was the reason for the backing up.

I feel sorry for the family of lost cast member, but also for the pilot of the other (Pink). It will be interesting to see where the breakdown in process happened, whether it was at the monorail control or was this pilot error.

 

[Slipknot]

From what it seems from other websites...Purple was stopped at the station ready to pull out to go over to Epcot, when pink backed into it at 15 MPH thinking it was on the MK beam not on the Epcot beam. They said that purple was backing up so that purple could go back to the monorail barn. I guess the pilot thought the beam had been shifted already and that was the reason for the backing up.

I feel sorry for the family of lost cast member, but also for the pilot of the other (Pink). It will be interesting to see where the breakdown in process happened, whether it was at the monorail control or was this pilot error.

A monorail pilot can only back up the monorail when told to do so by Monorail Central.

 

[wdwmagic]

Taken 3/20/09, the most recent picture I have of Purple. Scouting around for Pink. Just thought this picture might be a nice tribute.

The whole fleet is at
http://www.wdwmagic.com/Transportation/Monorail/Gallery.htm

 

[Einselen]

A monorail pilot can only back up the monorail when told to do so by Monorail Central.

This is true, but also this is only policy. There is nothing to say that pink thought central gave the all clear and proceeded to back up. At anytime a pilot could flip it in reverse and hold the override button but like others said that pilot will not be a pilot at the end of the day.

 

[Figment632]

I hope the next time the fleet is updated they go for a fully automated fleet.

 

[Slipknot]

This is true, but also this is only policy. There is nothing to say that pink thought central gave the all clear and proceeded to back up. At anytime a pilot could flip it in reverse and hold the override button but like others said that pilot will not be a pilot at the end of the day.

Monorail pilots have to repeat back what they were told to do verbatim. Unless that has changed since 07. :shrug:

 

[erstwo]

I know some people are better at mentally visualizing things than others, so I drew up this *very* rudimentary diagram.
(I apologize, as MSPaint + flaky mouse = jiggly lines)

Under *normal* track-switching procedures as described by board57796, a train being switched from the Epcot beam to Express would leave the TTC and follow the beam marked in solid pink. When they reached the far right-hand side, they would stop, wait for the switch to move, and then drive backward along the dotted pink beam to the Express beam. Following the end-of-night procedures, they'd continue on through the station and continue heading toward the Polynesian in "reverse".

But, according to board57796's hypothesis/description, what apparently happened is that Pink followed the solid pink beam, stopped, and then backed up along the same solid pink beam. I've marked Monorail Purple's location in blue. Once Pink passed through the station, it collided with Purple approximately where the blue line ends on the beam, in the area between the ticket booths and the station.

-Rob

Thank you VERY much for the photo and the info Rob.

Also, many thanks to board57796 for the all of the information.

 

[NewfieFan]

Thank you VERY much for the photo and the info Rob.

Also, many thanks to board57796 for the all of the information.

Yes, thank you for taking the time to post!

 

[Hoop Raeb]

Last question in my mind for those who know.

Where is the physical switch for the "switch"? Is it in Central (I'm thinking not) or back at the shop? I'm guessing the procedure is:

1. Monorail calls Central and states to move the switch.
2. Central calls the shop and tells them to move the switch.
3. Shops calls Central back to state the move is complete.
4. Central calls monorail to clear.

Also, at the physical switch (in the Shop), is there any visual indication that the switch actually moved? Any security cameras on the actual switch so that the move can be visually verified?

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Wow! I'm trying to catch up on all this reading but there's just soooo much. Very tragic all the way around.

The husband and I have talked a lot about the accident. Knowing the safety features that are in place (MAPO, etc.) it's hard to fathom that something like this could happen. In fact, when I was at WDW with my brother and his daughters in May the youngest of my nieces was afraid to ride the monorail. I assured her there are safety systems and proceedures in place to prevent accidents from happening. I told her it was impossible. When we first heard of this accident we were sitting in the airport in Atlanta waiting for our flight.

In another thread it was stated by a former monorail pilot who was told by friends who are still cast members there that pink had overriden or disengaged (not sure which) their MAPO and was reversing. Many pages ago in this thread another poster said that even though pink had overriden theirs that purple's MAPO should have put his train in an e-stop or at least alerted that pilot that another train was too close. Also, in another thread (the one from 2002 where a monorail pilot was discussing the MAPO system) it was stated that once the trains are within 10 feet of each other they no longer "see" each other, it's as if the other train isn't there at all. Some people are assuming that there was a MAPO system failure. Here's our thoughts (and it's purely speculation on our part): we feel like this is not a system failure, it's human error. If pink disengages it's MAPO would it not make it virtually "disappear" within that system? I don't know if that's exactly how it works but it makes sense that this could be a possibility. That could explain a lot. So in theory: pink has disengaged and is moving in reverse, purple's MAPO never "saw" the now "invisible" train coming at it, the 10 foot proximity also tells us that the trains are now "invisible" to each other, and a newer, less experienced pilot who is working some crazy late hours has very little to no time to react. Also, there's a lot of discussion as to which train was moving. Was pink still moving backward? Was purple stopped? Was pink stopped? Was purple moving forward? The theory that pink's disengaged MAPO still could work even if it wasn't in motion. Perhaps pink was stationary but had not yet re-engaged. The monorails don't stop on a dime. Purple could have still run right into it if it didn't know it was there. These are just our thoughts. It's tragic all the way around. I'll be very interested to find out exactly what did happen. If the NTSB is investigating there will be a report and those reports can be read.

My hubby seems to think this will be the end of riding in the front of the monorails with the pilots. I disagree. What do you think?

 

[Krozar]

One Rail, One Family

 

[DisneyJoe]

I hope the next time the fleet is updated they go for a fully automated fleet.

Automation is only as good as the programmers that program the system.

 

[JML42691]

post retracted, mods deleted referenced post

 

[Krozar]

Why was the monorail running so late?...epcot closed at 10 so why were people on it at 2 and the monorail still running then

Car pick up.