Michael Jackson

[21stamps]

If anyone is interested in something other than being a follower of the agenda media, in using critical thought..
Here’s a great interview-



Sadly, France puts American journalism to shame here.

 

[LittleBuford]

If anyone is interested in something other than being a follower of the agenda media, in using critical thought..
Here’s a great interview-



Sadly, France puts American journalism to shame here.

There was nothing in the discussion I didn’t already know. My opinion is unchanged.

 

[champdisney]

I recommend everyone with a Facebook to follow “Supporters of Wade Robson and other victims of MJ”. They tend to break all the latest stories first (I’m looking at you, Barbie Streis) and have direct contact with Wade Robson. The amount of new information coming out from all of this is absolutely nuts.

They’re also on YouTube under “MJVictims”. They livestream every other day or so. Can’t believe I’m this invested over this craziness, literally backing away now...

... nah. “Hehe.”

 

[21stamps]

There was nothing in the discussion I didn’t already know. My opinion is unchanged.

Of course it is. I mean, a focused documentary with drones and fancy camera angles... that means so much more than personal accounts of all the other boys he hung out with.. and the shady timing/past of Wade Robson.

I wonder why our media is doing such a terrible job with this story, and then people like you remind me why they’re doing it.
It sells.

 

[21stamps]

I recommend everyone with a Facebook to follow “Supporters of Wade Robson and other victims of MJ”. They tend to break all the latest stories first (I’m looking at you, Barbie Streis) and have direct contact with Wade Robson. The amount of new information coming out from all of this is absolutely nuts.

They’re also on YouTube under “MJVictims”. They livestream every other day or so. Can’t believe I’m this invested over this craziness, literally backing away now...

... nah. “Hehe.”

What new info?

 

[LittleBuford]

Of course it is. I mean, a focused documentary with drones and fancy camera angles... that means so much more than personal accounts of all the other boys he hung out with.. and the shady timing/past of Wade Robson.

I wonder why our media is doing such a terrible job with this story, and then people like you remind me why they’re doing it.
It sells.

Another barrage of insults from you, even after I bothered to watch the video you provided.

Out of respect to Sir_Cliff, I won’t respond in kind.

 

[21stamps]

Another barrage of insults from you, even after I bothered to watch the video you provided.

Out of respect to Sir_Cliff, I won’t respond in kind.

At some point we all might learn a lesson from media stories...
but we’re apparently not there yet.

 

[LittleBuford]

At some point we all might learn a lesson from media stories...
but we’re apparently not there yet.

* Think Disney thoughts, think Disney thoughts, think Disney thoughts . . . *

 

[champdisney]

What new info?

Everything that has been reported since and before the release of the documentary was reported on that page first. Watch a livestream and find out for yourself.

 

[21stamps]

Everything that has been reported since and before the release of the documentary was reported on that page first. Watch a livestream and find out for yourself.

I’ve seen the page, it’s mostly showing tweets or news stories.. I thought you meant new info like new accusers or something that could add credibility.

 

[Scrooged]

@21stamps You seem to be conflating a lot of cultural shifts with the specific arguments made against Jackson- then asking us to apply "critical thinking" from ALL of these things to just ONE thing-Jackson. In actuality, each of these instances are unique in comparison. That's basically a straw man argument. As has been stated before in this thread, we shall never know what actually happened because Jackson is dead, but your insistence that we are all sheep for "not thinking critically" is a really lazy hill for your lack of an argument to die on. rather than objectively talk about the situation you simply shoot down what some see as a logical progression of events to the poster/media outlet/documentarian as not thoroughly thinking the situation through. I'm disappointed in that line of conversation. It always comes back to "You weren't there" or "it's about the money" or "PC POLICE!" Nothing about the situation surrounding MJ himself.

Here's what we know:
MJ was a prodigy that was groomed by an abusive father to become what he became: a brand. Along the way he was able to carve out a niche for himself and hold his father at arms length. His musical prowess and powerful performances are beyond question and the stuff of legend. But there was another side to him. He was a broken man. He was a child dealing with being a grown man. And that does not excuse even one bit of the possibility of him having abused another child. If he was so clean, he shouldn't have made a 25 million dollar settlement. He should have made a public statement himself vs through his lawyers.

MJ was shady AF, some of his accusers are/were shady AF. The tenacity with which his supporters cling to the notion that he did nothing wrong is a demonstration of your very argument-but on the flip side. They are the ones who aren't "thinking critically." No one just indicts one of the most famous and powerful figures in american pop culture unless there were grounds to do so. So what does this leave us with?

A murky legacy that may never be fully fleshed out due to the dedication of people and their belief in one side or the other. Basically this will slowly pass into history and always be a footnote to his legacy and will leave a horrible stain on his otherwise brilliant music career. And that is truly a shame.

 

[21stamps]

@21stamps You seem to be conflating a lot of cultural shifts with the specific arguments made against Jackson- then asking us to apply "critical thinking" from ALL of these things to just ONE thing-Jackson. In actuality, each of these instances are unique in comparison. That's basically a straw man argument. As has been stated before in this thread, we shall never know what actually happened because Jackson is dead, but your insistence that we are all sheep for "not thinking critically" is a really lazy hill for your lack of an argument to die on. rather than objectively talk about the situation you simply shoot down what some see as a logical progression of events to the poster/media outlet/documentarian as not thoroughly thinking the situation through. I'm disappointed in that line of conversation. It always comes back to "You weren't there" or "it's about the money" or "PC POLICE!" Nothing about the situation surrounding MJ himself.

Here's what we know:
MJ was a prodigy that was groomed by an abusive father to become what he became: a brand. Along the way he was able to carve out a niche for himself and hold his father at arms length. His musical prowess and powerful performances are beyond question and the stuff of legend. But there was another side to him. He was a broken man. He was a child dealing with being a grown man. And that does not excuse even one bit of the possibility of him having abused another child. If he was so clean, he shouldn't have made a 25 million dollar settlement. He should have made a public statement himself vs through his lawyers.

MJ was shady AF, some of his accusers are/were shady AF. The tenacity with which his supporters cling to the notion that he did nothing wrong is a demonstration of your very argument-but on the flip side. They are the ones who aren't "thinking critically." No one just indicts one of the most famous and powerful figures in american pop culture unless there were grounds to do so. So what does this leave us with?

A murky legacy that may never be fully fleshed out due to the dedication of people and their belief in one side or the other. Basically this will slowly pass into history and always be a footnote to his legacy and will leave a horrible stain on his otherwise brilliant music career. And that is truly a shame.

What we’re seeing is stupidity from humans, and a narrative being pushed by the media.

Most MJ articles have dropped the word “alleged”, and are being sold as facts.

I wonder how many people have truly researched the past child molestation cases.. I’m not saying read a quick article or regurgitate specific media talking points, I’m talking really looked into them.

This is not just a Michael Jackson thing, and it shouldn’t be about being a fan. It should be about being so incredibly controlled that you’re incapable of recognizing Right from Wrong, and that people have become so mindless that treating allegations as factual is not a concern. That people have reached an alarming place where an allegation should be coddled and never questioned.

Everyone should be afraid by what we’re seeing right now.
If that doesn’t scare you (general), then you’ve become one of the mindless ones.

 

[LittleBuford]

What we’re seeing is stupidity from humans, and a narrative being pushed by the media.

Most MJ articles have dropped the word “alleged”, and are being sold as facts.

I wonder how many people have truly researched the past child molestation cases.. I’m not saying read a quick article or regurgitate specific media talking points, I’m talking really looked into them.

This is not just a Michael Jackson thing, and it shouldn’t be about being a fan. It should be about being so incredibly controlled that you’re incapable of recognizing Right from Wrong, and that people have become so mindless that treating allegations as factual is not a concern. That people have reached an alarming place where an allegation should be coddled and never questioned.

Everyone should be afraid by what we’re seeing right now.
If that doesn’t scare you (general), then you’ve become one of the mindless ones.

You’ve already conceded that we’ll never know one way or the other what actually happened. You’re very sure of your opinion, but even you will admit it is just that—an opinion. You’re entitled to yours, and we’re entitled to ours; there’s no need for either “side” to sling mud.

 

[21stamps]

You’ve already conceded that we’ll never know one way or the other what actually happened. You’re very sure of your opinion, but even you will admit it is just that—an opinion. You’re entitled to yours, and we’re entitled to ours; there’s no need for either “side” to sling mud.

You didn’t understand my post at all.

A valid opinion can only be formed if it is based in knowledge.

So, why is the media so determined to only show a specific narrative? Why are they only conducting specific interviews? Writing specific stories?

How can someone not question such a tactic from the media??? If you don’t question the tactics, then yes, you’re exactly the reason why they can get away with it... whatever the subject may be.

 

[Scrooged]

What we’re seeing is stupidity from humans, and a narrative being pushed by the media.

Most MJ articles have dropped the word “alleged”, and are being sold as facts.

I wonder how many people have truly researched the past child molestation cases.. I’m not saying read a quick article or regurgitate specific media talking points, I’m talking really looked into them.

This is not just a Michael Jackson thing, and it shouldn’t be about being a fan. It should be about being so incredibly controlled that you’re incapable of recognizing Right from Wrong, and that people have become so mindless that treating allegations as factual is not a concern. That people have reached an alarming place where an allegation should be coddled and never questioned.

Everyone should be afraid by what we’re seeing right now.
If that doesn’t scare you (general), then you’ve become one of the mindless ones.

I acknowledged that in my post- but yet again since you can’t eloquently discuss the situation you have to conflate the issues to try and sound superior. Amazing. It’s like talking to a Trump supporter. I’ll go build my
Own wall to bang my head against. I’m out.

 

[LittleBuford]

A valid opinion can only be formed if it is based in knowledge.

And it’s a pure assumption on your part that those who disagree with you lack such knowledge.

 

[Scrooged]

And it’s a pure assumption on your part that those who disagree with you lack such knowledge.

 

[21stamps]

And it’s a pure assumption on your part that those who disagree with you lack such knowledge.

Are you claiming that the media is questioning the accusers or the story at all? That media outlets aren’t showing such an assignment of guilt? That they’re going into detail as to why the last allegations failed? That many articles and interviews haven’t dropped the word alleged?

Seriously?

View attachment 359608

See above.

 

[21stamps]

I acknowledged that in my post- but yet again since you can’t eloquently discuss the situation you have to conflate the issues to try and sound superior. Amazing. It’s like talking to a Trump supporter. I’ll go build my
Own wall to bang my head against. I’m out.

There’s no conflating an issue. It is the issue at hand.

 

[LittleBuford]

Are you claiming that the media is questioning the accusers or the story at all? That media outlets aren’t showing such an assignment of guilt? That they’re going into detail as to why the last allegations failed? That many articles and interviews haven’t dropped the word alleged?

I am claiming—no, asserting as fact—that you have no idea how much research each of us has done into the matter.