Meg and Co. Head West ...

[WDW1974]

Isn't that the truth?!? I lived in San Diego for a few years, and it was perfectly paradise-like, yet I slowly longed to move north to OC. I've had close family in San Diego for decades, and wonderful friends, and still I got bored. Love it for weekend jaunts, or Thanksgiving dinner, or sea kayaking the caves in La Jolla. But then...

I think it's the truly perfect climate, and the close-but-no-cigar location where you are near all the big stuff in SoCal but it still takes an hour or two to drive there.

However, after living in several big cities on the East Coast and the South, I have to say the populace of San Diego is clearly the most physically active and attractive (stunningly so, really) and most friendly and happy that I've ever seen in any American city. And yet that gets boring after a while. Odd how it works. :veryconfu

Yeah, when I lived in SoCal, I lived in ... well, an area with a famous zip code.
:ROFLOL: ... I liked the fact I could drive anywhere (traffic non-withstanding) fairly easily.

SD seems so ... removed ... you have to take the 5 down ... and pass through Camp Pendleton ... and ... I dunno. I think it's almost too laidback for an area of its size (a lame complaint on my part, perhaps!).

I had a good friend who unbeknownst to me had all sorts of addiction (mostly booze, though) issues who moved from SoFla to the SD area about 6-7 years ago and has become whatever the current version of a 'hippie' would be. He has a good job, but wakes up very early ... drinks all sorts of bizarre veggies/fruit/supplement smoothies ... does yoga (and this is a dude who would never have done that in Miami!) and seems very happy.

Maybe there's something in the water down there.

~GFC~

 

[TP2000]

In all fairness, this refurb is pre preventative work and also needed repairs on the flume system. Guests probably won't know any different after reopening.

But you know I'm not defending TDO.

I thought of you while reading the big Al Lutz update today. :wave:

There's a lot going on inside Pirates at Disneyland during this three-month rehab, and now I can't wait to see what they did this Thanksgiving weekend!

From Al Lutz on Miceage this morning...

Currently the big news is the three month rehab at Pirates of the Caribbean, wrapping up in a few weeks just in time for Thanksgiving. The latest Pirates rehab has multiple objectives, from a rather unglamorous but necessary expansion of the unload dock to accommodate more wheelchairs, to major cosmetic work on the original 1966 rockwork along the waterfalls and caverns in the first part of the ride.

With the very thorough rehab the Disneyland version of Pirates got in ’06 when every single light fixture and every single audio speaker was replaced with newer technology, the dividends of that expensive upgrading are still paying off and during this rehab they can focus on cosmetics instead of relamping old fixtures and fiddling with blown speakers. Plenty of set work down in the ride itself is underway, with the various cavern scenes being entirely stripped out and redecorated, massive repainting and redressing of all the sets from the Battle Scene’s pirate ship and fort to the fiery Arsenal Scene in the second show building. All of the major animatronics figures have been removed from the ride and sent for tune-ups at Imagineering facilities throughout Southern California.

In addition, they took the opportunity to repaint the queue and exterior façade of the attraction, and refurbish the old lighthouse in the cupola on top of the entrance. Pirates of the Caribbean re-opens in a couple weeks, and it will look fantastic when it celebrates its 45th Anniversary just a few months from now.

Rehabs matter. I think that's my new slogan.

 

[WDW1974]

I remembered that thread too, it was over in the Disneyland section this past August, and it was a fascinating outlook from a WDW regular and his family who made their first trip to Disneyland.

Here's the quote from the TR from this website, although I'll leave the user name off of it as I don't know he wants to be dragged into this new topic.

Quote:
I think the biggest thing, and maybe the best way to describe it is this - on our 3rd day at Disneyland we asked a Cast member about that nights performance of Fantasmic. After answering our question, the cast member (who was very friendly) left us with "I'm glad I could help. Have a good night". My wife and I both looked at each other and almost at the same time we both realized - not once in 3 days had anyone, not one person, said to us "Have a magical day!" We never did hear that during our trip to Disneyland and that, above everything else, is disappointing.

And I read that and thought "That's exactly what I don't like about WDW!" That cloying, corporate, mindless and charmless "Have a Magical Day!" shtick the CM's autobots in Orlando puke out after any customer interaction, good or bad, just makes my skin crawl. :hurl:

If they start doing that kind of junk at Disneyland I'll tear up my pass and start going to Knott's Berry Farm instead. And yet, for some folks, that really means something to them and they think it's genuine and a key part of their experience at Disney World. Absolutely bizarre how people could think that, and not see right through it.

That's it. And I agree on all counts.

That WAS the report I saw. ... But there's a thread on WDW General right now on the exact same topic. And if I went over there ... well, I'm sure it wouldn't end well.:drevil:

But when I rip some folks for contributing to the Walmarting of Da World ... well, folks who spend $7,000 to be told to HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!! are certainly up there.

Only slightly less annoying is the 'welcome home' you now get at every resort. While I don't mind so much at the WL, which is my favorite resort and I have stayed an obscene number of nights, I don't enjoy it quite so much when I'm headed to the All Star Music food court to meet a friend visiting from out of town!

~GFC~

 

[SMRT-1]

Yeah, when I lived in SoCal, I lived in ... well, an area with a famous zip code.
:ROFLOL: ... I liked the fact I could drive anywhere (traffic non-withstanding) fairly easily.

did you go to the Peach Pit? :lol: what years were you living out there?

 

[TP2000]

So many forget this, Disneyland is a local based park/resort. Orlando is different, and most Guests expect everything to be open when they visit. They don't care nor want to hear it's down for refurbishment. This will never change with the Orlando resort, unless it becomes just a locals based attraction.

No, it's not really. You should read Al Lutz's update today on Miceage. It's fascinating, and details with fascinating facts and figures how the traditional 70/30 split Disneyland had back in the 20th century has finally been changing in the past decade.

Disneyland is now a 55/45 split, with the 55% of "locals" being anyone living between Santa Barbara and Ensenada, Mexico. (Mexicans living in Baja even qualify for discounted "locals" tickets at Disneyland) 45% of the tourists at Disneyland come from the rest of America, Canada, Europe, and the Pacific Rim countries.

Six Flags St. Louis or Kings Dominion outside of Richmond is a "locals park". Disneyland is an international tourist destination that sits in the middle of one of the planet's biggest megalopolises of over 20 Million people, and thus also has a bunch of "locals" who visit it too.

The tired old 20th century tagline that "Disney World is for tourists and Disneyland is a little locals park" no longer holds water. One afternoon spent at Disneyland proves that to anyone with ears to hear all the accents, languages, and regional dialects. :lol:

 

[Pioneer Hall]

No, it's not really. You should read Al Lutz's update today on Miceage. It's fascinating, and details with fascinating facts and figures how the traditional 70/30 split Disneyland had back in the 20th century has finally been changing in the past decade.

Disneyland is now a 55/45 split, with the 55% of "locals" being anyone living between Santa Barbara and Ensenada, Mexico. (Mexicans living in Baja even qualify for discounted "locals" tickets at Disneyland) 45% of the tourists at Disneyland come from the rest of America, Canada, Europe, and the Pacific Rim countries.

Six Flags St. Louis or Kings Dominion outside of Richmond is a "locals park". Disneyland is an international tourist destination that sits in the middle of one of the planet's biggest megalopolises of over 20 Million people, and thus also has a bunch of "locals" who visit it too.

The tired old 20th century tagline that "Disney World is for tourists and Disneyland is a little locals park" no longer holds water. One afternoon spent at Disneyland proves that to anyone with ears to hear all the accents, languages, and regional dialects. :lol:

Slightly unsure why you went back 10 pages on the thread to quote someone to repeat a point you made more than once on the previous page...

 

[HMF]

TDA Executives went to Wizarding World of Harry Potter for reference on how to run a successful operation. That is just flat-out embarrassing:shrug:.

 

[TP2000]

Slightly unsure why you went back 10 pages on the thread to quote someone to repeat a point you made more than once on the previous page...

It was a comment that stuck with me as the fantastic conversation from all sides progressed here over the last 36 hours, and I thought it worthy to address directly. The news from this morning from the Lutz column shed light directly on that one comment.

But then, I'm slightly unsure why you felt the need to question my polite and honest discussion on a, um, discussion board. :wave:

 

[TP2000]

TDA Executives went to Wizarding World of Harry Potter for reference on how to run a successful operation. That is just flat-out embarrassing:shrug:.

Isn't it fascinating to think about?!? The executives from Disney California Adventure flew out to Orlando and spent the day hanging out at Potterland?!

I wonder if Meg Crofton & Co. from TDO have bothered to visit Universal?

We never hear of Meg visiting the WDW parks much, if ever. I think that recent photo of her walking through DAK with the James Cameron entourage last month was the first picture ever I've seen of her in an actual WDW theme park, at least when it's not time to stand at a podium in front of the media and read from a magical script.

A shame that WDW doesn't have its own Al Lutz to give us the scoop on whether or not TDO execs have ever gone under cover at Islands of Adventure to see what all this Potter buzz is about.

 

[Kuhio]

Quote:
But when I rip some folks for contributing to the Walmarting of Da World ... well, folks who spend $7,000 to be told to HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!! are certainly up there.

Only slightly less annoying is the 'welcome home' you now get at every resort. While I don't mind so much at the WL, which is my favorite resort and I have stayed an obscene number of nights, I don't enjoy it quite so much when I'm headed to the All Star Music food court to meet a friend visiting from out of town!

The ubiquitous "welcome homes" really bugged the heck out of me this last visit, especially the automated ones you hear as the bus pulls back up to the resort stop and your eyes are suddenly assaulted with harsh fluorescent lighting. I get the idea that the resorts should ideally feel like a home away from home, but that sense of feeling "at home" -- i.e., relaxed and comfortable -- should come naturally because of the hospitality of the staff and the quality of the amenities, not because someone says it to you over and over.

In contrast, the "have a magical day" spiel didn't bother me nearly as much, partly because it didn't seem that ubiquitous. And the couple of times I heard it tended to happen at the tail end of a CM interaction that was itself enjoyable and worthwhile. If the CM with whom I'm interacting has been helpful and friendly and I get the feeling that he/she has genuinely enjoyed talking with or assisting me, then the fact that the conversation ends with a "have a magical day" that itself is earnest is not per se annoying. Of course, having someone recite a trite phrase with no conviction or actual sentiment is tiresome and meaningless, but those occasions were few and far between last week. (Or maybe I was just lucky this time around -- I've definitely encountered more than my share of perfunctory directives to "have a magical day" over the years.)

What annoyed me most, though, was the fact that every vehicle-based attraction seemed to include a CM waving goodbye as the vehicle pulled out of the loading area. I've definitely seen this in the past at just about every Disney park, but it really was ubiquitous at WDW -- and quickly got irksome, because it was clear that nearly all of the CMs who were waving were just going through the motions.

For me, it boils down to the context behind the gesture or greeting -- a meaningful, substantive, and genuine interaction can help turn even the tritest turn of phrase into a pleasant send-off, whereas an obvious lack of genuine sentiment can make something that's otherwise charming tiresome and condescending.

 

[Kuhio]

Yeah, none of us here with current knowledge of the Disneyland Resort bought those old 70/30 numbers. :wave:

It just didn't add up, and didn't feel right for what we experience every time we go to Disneyland in recent years.

...

But it's attendance information that is no longer accurate, and it's old information being thrown out to a room of drooling fans in 2011 as he references management decisions made back in 2001 and 2002 using that old info.

I was pretty sure the 70/30 numbers no longer reflected the current visitor breakdown for DL. That said, the fact that locals no longer make up quite the same large chunk as before hasn't manifested itself in a decrease in things like seasonal overlays, has it? I mean, no one's decided to pull HMH in the future just because a significantly greater percentage of DL visitors are now more likely to be first-time visitors and thus have their vacation "completely ruined" because they can't experience the "real" HM (which further highlights why that rationale doesn't hold water for WDW now, if indeed it ever did).

That said, I wonder what the actual numbers are like for WDW. Jason Surrell suggested that it was something like 30/70. With the ever-growing ranks of DVC members though, I would guess that there is some significant number of people who aren't technically "local" (however that's defined in the context of central Florida), but whose spending patterns essentially are equivalent to those of locals.

Add in the relatively large number of people who don't necessarily visit every year but are still veterans with multiple previous visits, and I would guess that there are relatively few people who are truly taking their "once-in-a-lifetime" trip to WDW and would have their vacation "completely ruined" because a single attraction was closed and/or holiday-fied. (I do think that the loudness and shrillness with which some displeased people express their feelings tends to make it seem like there are more of them than there actually are.)

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Fascinating article from Al. The only thing we didn't get was more detail about where these domestic tourists are coming from. Are they people who weren't vacationing before? Vacationing at another, non-Disney location? OR, are they converted WDW tourists? It's the elephant in the room, really. I hypothesize that many of these extra tourists at Disneyland are people who previously only vacationed at WDW. While they may not have forsaken WDW completely, I'd bet there are many repeat visitors who will do WDW "next time". Al sorta touched on it when he mentioned that Disneyland got permission to advertise in markets where WDW previously had dibs. With the Internet and the ability to research a potential vacation spot combined with the age of cheap jet travel that we live in, I think TWDC will increasingly find that they have two mega-flagship resorts in the US competing with each other for the tourist dollars, not the clean east of the Rockies, west of the Rockies split. DLR has had an amazing string of hits ever since the 50th anniversary celebration, and people are taking notice.

Chew on this: after the DCA renaissance is complete, both DL and DCA will easily be full day or multiple day experiences with very few weak spots in the batting order. DLR will be in prime position for developing their third gate. I don't think the intra-resort transportation is quite there yet, but Disney already owns the land for a third gate. Whether it is a water park or a theme park, another gate at DLR certainly pushes it a lot closer to WDW, dontcha think?

 

[Duckberg]

Y'all nuts. :wave:

Westward Ho The Wagons ...... :lol::ROFLOL:

 

[unkadug]

TDA Executives went to Wizarding World of Harry Potter for reference on how to run a successful operation. That is just flat-out embarrassing:shrug:.

No, going to Nara Dreamland to learn how to run a theme park would be embarrassing.

There's nothing wrong with UoF showing off their baby to other executives that are in the exact same business.

 

[drew81]

Isn't it fascinating to think about?!? The executives from Disney California Adventure flew out to Orlando and spent the day hanging out at Potterland?!

I wonder if Meg Crofton & Co. from TDO have bothered to visit Universal?

We never hear of Meg visiting the WDW parks much, if ever. I think that recent photo of her walking through DAK with the James Cameron entourage last month was the first picture ever I've seen of her in an actual WDW theme park, at least when it's not time to stand at a podium in front of the media and read from a magical script.

A shame that WDW doesn't have its own Al Lutz to give us the scoop on whether or not TDO execs have ever gone under cover at Islands of Adventure to see what all this Potter buzz is about.

I actually saw her at DHS back in May near the Star Tours exit. I went up and had a nice conversation with her for at least 5 minutes. We talked about how it would be nice to have some different characters in the parks and how it would be nice for MK and DHS to get new parades. She was very kind to me. I've found that most Disney execs will speak and carry on a conversation with you if you approach them with respect. You still can make your points and be courteous.

 

[WDWFigment]

TDA Executives went to Wizarding World of Harry Potter for reference on how to run a successful operation. That is just flat-out embarrassing:shrug:.

It struck me as surprising first, but if the DCA team wants to learn what things might be like in Cars Land when it first opens, where better to head than WWoHP?

I think saying they went there "for reference on how to run a successful operation" is misrepresenting what actually occurred or reducing it to its simplest terms.

Now if you're implying that it's a shame there can't be an area in Walt Disney World where they could glean that knowledge, I completely agree. That said, right now WWoHP is what is most closely analogous to what Cars Land will be when it opens, so why not visit WWoHP?

 

[WDWFigment]

Also, not a significant point, but TP2000, at a couple points, you've inferred that Jason Surrell was delivering a scripted presentation when giving that 70/30 number.

That video must not have contained the full presentation. If there is one thing Jason Surrell does *not* do, it's deliver scripted presentations. I agree with everything else you've said in this thread, but that is flat out incorrect. His numbers may be based on dated information, but that doesn't make the presentation scripted. I imagine whenever he presents, he has Disney sitting on pins and needles.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

So I read through Al's Miceage report, and noticed this little tidbit right away:

"As always seems to be the case, the Orlando team spent several days in Anaheim and Glendale marveling at the perfect weather and noticeably superior upkeep of the attractions and facilities in both Anaheim parks. And yet the Orlando suits never quite seem to learn their lesson, and forget everything they learned in SoCal by the time their plane returns to Orlando."

I mean, c'mon Mr Staggs, how much more can you take when lots of people are saying that the TDO folks are clueless and need an change! :brick:

Let's get going on FIXING WDW!!!!!

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I cant see DCA as a multiday park, at least not yet. Perhaps after a few more mid-range attractions that appeal to all age groups. DL- absolutely.
If it ever happens, a 3rd park would make a Disneyland Resort vacation almost as appealing as one at WDW. I only say almost because we enjoy the resorts and recreational activities as part of our week there in addition to the parks. Yet, Epcot alone will always pull us to Florida. Animal Kingdom, while unique, does not have the same pull.

 

[TP2000]

Also, not a significant point, but TP2000, at a couple points, you've inferred that Jason Surrell was delivering a scripted presentation when giving that 70/30 number.

That video must not have contained the full presentation. If there is one thing Jason Surrell does *not* do, it's deliver scripted presentations. I agree with everything else you've said in this thread, but that is flat out incorrect. His numbers may be based on dated information, but that doesn't make the presentation scripted. I imagine whenever he presents, he has Disney sitting on pins and needles.

Understood. And by "scripted", I didn't mean that he was using a teleprompter or sticking to rehearsed lines. I watched the video and got that he was just doing a free-flow of ideas quite naturally.

What I meant was that he was throwing out an old "talking point" as it's called in the corporate world. A bit of official information that is used, often in bullet point format, to convey an idea. The old 70/30 demographic info was a talking point from 10 years ago when Mansion Holiday opened, and while it still helps explain why WDW took a pass on Mansion Holiday back in Fiscal Year '02, it no longer is accurate in 2011 when it comes to Disneyland demographics.

Jason Surrell, who I hadn't heard of before this thread, does seem like a nice guy. Probably a lot of fun at cocktail parties too.