Meg and Co. Head West ...

[Lee]

...so if just contract out everything to outside contractors then we will save money. Will it be a quality job? Who cares? as along as we save money.

Until one day when one of the outside contractors doesn't do his job and neglects to check certain items on a Big Thunder train...:lookaroun

 

[ScoutN]

Until one day when one of the outside contractors doesn't do his job and neglects to check certain items on a Big Thunder train...:lookaroun

Sheared linkage? Woah.

 

[bstiles]

Its not like disney is hurting for money, they are greedy and just want more. Remember to make money you have to spend money.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Sheared linkage? Woah.

Yes, and a guest was killed in the process.

 

[trr1]

Until one day when one of the outside contractors doesn't do his job and neglects to check certain items on a Big Thunder train...:lookaroun

where was this at resort wise?

 

[officeboy]

where was this at resort wise?

I assume this was the BTM DL incident a few years ago.

 

[janoimagine]

where was this at resort wise?

Guessing it was at DLP, whose version has been in the news yet again ... but Anaheims version had a (few) malfunction's one causing the death of a guest.

 

[misterID]

A couple things...

How could Meg assert her authority when it's pretty clear Staggs has been the one asserting his? I don't know if the "window dressing promotion" thing is true with Meg, or her rumored health issues, or the rumors that she's preparing to retire to spend more time with her family, but I highly doubt Staggs is going to let her run over, or change anything with any part of Disney after he's pretty much established his Alpha dominance.

My take on the Meg promotion was that he had her on a very short leash. Al's article kind of says that to me.

As for the 70/30, 30/70 thing; there was a time when Florida residents were a big part of WDW's gate. Then there was an intentional shift in the mid 90's to change that and to not cater to them. This had a lot with how Orlando tourism swelled from the 80's into the 90's and it's a logical change towards a growing demographic on WDW's part, but they also do use it as an excuse. And they could do a lot to get locals back. They just don't want to. Florida isn't just about tourists.

I also don't buy those numbers. DLR's tourism numbers are going up.

 

[WDW1974]

I guess you understood my point. My point being that the GP today is lazy. Unless it is put right there in front of them with step by step directions then they do not do it. I look at the rehab schedule religiously before each and every trip and cross check it through multiple site. Even if it is listed on the attraction's official page most still will not know because it does not appear in an email. Sad stuff.

Yes. I don't dispute that at all. This is a generation that lives while playing with their iPhones, iPods, iPads, iHavenolifes etc. People seem to have the attention span of flies. Does anyone even read books (those things with pages in them anymore?)

My rant above just means I get why people storm into City Hall and demand $5,000 free vacations because their daughter missed meeting Aurora ... or because they dared close BTMRR and THAT was the only reason they decided to visit!

But you (in this case Disney) can't simply give in to boorish behavior and absurd demands.

I cannot comment on the 70s as I was not even the fathom of a far off thought a that time :hammer:

Be careful ... yesterday was my holiday and I can be an evil Spirit when reminded of my age!

I wish I could agree with the "as a whole" statement but sadly I feel that is no longer the case in this country. See useless degrees in Wall Street.

Well, I feel Wall Street was exposed as a largely useless Ponzi Scheme in 2008 (some of us had a feeling before), but I don't wanna open that can of worms!

I think Steve elaborated better where I was going with this. The once in a lifers or once every five-ten year visitors will know no difference in the grand scheme of it. They see the show, notice some items are not right and that is the end of that. As for you or I? We see the shows regularly, we research the shows and track their progress. We know good and well what is slacking and what is not having attention given where needed. The GP does not even when you can YouTube a video of the show and clear as day see differences.

And I get that. I just think that view gives the public even less credit than I do, which is saying something. And I feel that on some level, that much of the great unwashed non-Disney fan masses DO get that something(s) just not quite right. They may not even be able to put it into words, but they know.

I guess you are saying that some fans say certain things were cheaper years ago?

If that is what you are saying then my take is; Yes things were cheaper to maintain then but we pay more at this point and that should offset it. I am sure you have seen my posts that do not call attention to stuff as loudly as you do but do not think I do not notice it. My father first visited in 1974 and I in 1992 (two years old :lookaroun ) and he will point out items as well I even can. Things I noticed at ten years old versus twenty one at this point that have change.

Yes, it is.

We constantly hear from defenders of Disney management that Disney can't afford to maintain things or make things fresh etc ... blah, blah, and BLAH. Well, I beg to differ. And the point is that back when Disney provided a much higher quality product across the board, it was also a vastly LESS pricey place to visit in everything from admission media to hotels to food.

I want it! And I want it now! Correct? Settling for mediocrity is clearly a problem with the average visitors. Sadly it is a problem with nearly every aspect of life nowadays. I feel that so long as it is a problem in everyday life then it will only continue to become worse as years go when it comes to a theme park. It is a business person's dream for people to expect less, right? That MUST change but it must change in a person's head in their everyday life before it can at Disney. How can that change? Beats me

I don't say Disney exists in a vacuum. When I use my wonderful Walmarted label, I believe WDW is only a small microcosm of a much larger, much sadder and much deeper Walmarting of American society and what people are willing to accept (waaaay more than they should would be my opinion).

I guarantee you that 20 years ago people wouldn't think of defending a company, let alone Disney, for doing things counter to their own interests as guests/consumers/fans. If this is that 'new normal' that's been puked forth since W uttered it post 9/11, I want no part of it ... because it is a very, very bad thing for all of us. And again, Disney is just a small example. But THAT is why we are here and what we are talking about.

I brought that up because as I said I am but twenty one years old. I am working on my Aerospace Engineering degree with a minor in Nuclear. I hope to end up at Kennedy or a contractor local to there. I recently purchased into DVC (CM family member!) and I look at the items in despair rather seriously. I put everything I see in the surveys they email me after each visit. I also submit an email with every item to the parks. But what product will I have to show my kids and grandkids from now until the time I am 71 (cross my fingers I make it until then). As DVC has grown rapidly and captures a younger audience as it is doing right now I hope that the lot of us can band together to make certain items known.

At the end of the day during my visits I am still relaxed. I ponder upon the items in need of TLC and attention. At the same time I still feel disconnected from real world. That is not because I am oblivious but because I still enjoy the product as a whole. As I am sure you still do but others do not realize that fact. If I ever lose that feeling then I can easily visit Hilton Head, Aulani, etc.

I wish you luck with that since our space program has been pretty much decimated. Amazing that we could go to the moon in the 1960s, but in an era with much more powerful computers that are ON YOUR SMART PHONES we can't even get a ride into lower orbit without asking the Russians for a lift.

Walmarting? You betcha!

As to DVCers, I just wish they'd become the vocal fans that Disney has a love-hate (but mostly hate) relationship with in Anaheim. I just don't see that. I see Disney conditioning them that the post-pink-castle WDW is the REAL Disney quality product and that plus a does of self-effacing nostalgia is what Disney is supposed to be.

That and character greets, turkey legs, pintrading, vinyl and Duffy!

How did I ever enjoy (let alone love) WDW when none of that existed?

On a different park's note, I live about 30 minutes from Busch Gardens Williamsburg. Throughout the InBev buyout and the transition to Blackstone the park has remained immaculate. New rides are popping up now faster than ever before in the park's history. I hope that Disney can regain their pace that was once there in regards to attractions in maintenance. What will that take? Once again, beats me. That is why I read certain posters and view their submission from their POV.

I do not weigh in on the * vs DLR because I have never been there. I will not compare what I have not experienced first hand. I hope to in the next year however.

I have only one park in the USA that I haven't been that I really want to get to -- and it is BGW. I know many Disney lovers who tell me it is a better quality, better run product. I haven't been to Tampa's version in your lifetime. But I love the Sea World/Aquatica product in O-Town, and feel it is superior to Disney in many of the basics (cleanliness, food value, fresher product etc)

And I do compare WDW to the other Disney resorts around the globe because I've been to them all (have had APs at one time or other to ALL but TDR) and compare them to the UNI and SW parks because I've likewise been to them many times and had APs etc.

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

Wow, great point! One major issue is not just that standards have been declining so much, but that pricing at WDW (food, resort rack rates, merch, tickets) have gone up DRAMATICALLY in the past several years. Disney was always expensive, but you always felt like you got a lot for your money. You paid a premium price and you got a premium product in return.

Now, somehow folks think its great to drop $85 a day to see broken effects, poor upkeep, a lack of new attractions/entertainment, poor food selection, etc., and just be perfectly fine with it! I really don't understand that mentality... What person in their right mind can argue for getting LESS for their money?!

Right mind?

Well, that's a loaded question. I hinted at starting a 'Mental Health and the Fan Community' thread in anotherDisneyplace and you would have thought I burned down a church filled with orphans.

I will say that the behavior of defending getting less than you should and defending it ignorantly is something not unique to Disney ... and since this forum strives to stay away from the political, all I'm going to say is you live in a society where people take to the streets to fight for the rights of insurance companies to make billions in profits while people die from preventable causes due to having no insurance ... you live in a society where people have marches and meetings to support corporations making billions having the right to pay no taxes and not be 'encumbered' by any controls from the government etc...

So ... is it any wonder that people will defend Disney, a company that has way too much goodwill due to things it accomplished decades ago and people that did amazing things but have been dead longer than most here have been alive, when anyone dares question it?

Now ... whether they are in their right minds or just not very realistic in having a mature, fully developed, compassionate and fair world view is the real issue and I doubt it's one that could be had here sadly.

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

Just to throw in a comment about attraction closures during guests visits. In many cases that I have observed, the guests do know ahead of time that the said attraction will be closed. They still book, go to the parks, and then complain like crazy when they are there that it is shut. They score low on the survey, and fill out guest relation forms. All of this despite the fact they know that an attraction will be closed before they even book their trip. This is the entitlement mode that we talk about so much around here. Even giving out information ahead of time does not help this situation. Disney live and breathe by survey scores, so this situation does not help leaders decide to close attractions for the refurbs they desperately need.

And THIS is a great point and showcases a fundamental flaw in the way Disney measures guest satisfaction and whether they are doing things the right way -- and it isn't unique at all to TWDC.

Just the other day, I had a free sandwich at a local fast food outlet (of a national chain) for taking a survey. When I brought the receipt in all the assistant manager who took my order wanted to know was whether I had given her unit 'all 5s' (the highest score). She was really serious and really getting obnoxious about it to the point I had to basically tell her 'enough, I was honest' (and hope no one spat on my food!)

I have been through similar when I've taken my autos in to dealerships for service.

All they want to hear is that they're doing a GREAT job, even when they are not.

Disney is no different.

And that's why they need a thorough overhaul in how they measure TRUE guest satisfaction because the current way (designed by experts to get the best numbers possible) simply is BS through and through.

When I want to give feedback, I want legit feedback not 'as MAGICal as I expected' or 'more MAGICal than I expected' etc.

Steve, you are completely right about the surveys ... but they are a huge reason why things don't improve because the energy is all expended in getting numbers that are forced/coerced/don't nearly tell the whole story.

It's simply bad business.

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

i see what you say that this is how the system works and i understand what you say about large organisations. But if it is so, then wdw truly has a problem with how it is run. If you want to rely on surveys, you need to make sure that they really tell you what you need to know, not just some figures which make no sense with regard to your ultimate goal.

this.

Again!

~gfc~

 

[Lee]

I assume this was the BTM DL incident a few years ago.

Guessing it was at DLP, whose version has been in the news yet again ... but Anaheims version had a (few) malfunction's one causing the death of a guest.

Those photos are indeed from the fatal BTM accident a few years ago. An accident that can be traced back to outside parties brought in to do maintenence as a cost-cutting move.

 

[WDW1974]

Especially when you have other options available. After visiting DL myself, we would much rather pay a premium to experience those parks.

We've been without APs now for 8 months and there have only been 2 or 3 times that we've thought about getting new passes. We know we will eventually but we're trying to see how long we can hold off. This December is a big "maybe" for us because this will be the first December we don't do a Christmas trip to a Disney World or Disneyland in 6 years and we feel a void...though the conversation we're having isn't just "should we get passes and take a trip this year (which used to be a no-brainer for us)." It's now "do we want to spend the money to go to Disney World, or should we spend a couple days at Universal and Sea World? Or do we want to go to the Smokeys and enjoy the snow and try our luck at ice hiking and skiing?"

I'd do the mountains myself. While I love theme parks (my WDW Hating persona aside), sometimes the best option is something different.

WDW is no different from eight months ago beyond more construction walls and Star Tours, which while quite well done will be there next year and the year after and ...

We've noticed the decline in offerings and experience and we very much question the value of our trip to WDW as of late. I do sincerely hope that this visit out West is for Meg to get some new insight on how to manage the WDW Resort, though being this far into her career, I doubt that is the case. The only thing I can hope is that TDA doesn't just roll over and take it.

I doubt it. Al Lutz almost quoted me word for word today as far as what generally happens when WDW execs visit The Happiest Place in Anaheim and then get on a plane ...

I do highly dislike LA...Disneyland and Anaheim not so much, but LA was horrid... :hurl:

I will venture to San Diego next time I'm out there instead of heading back into LA.

I'll try not to hold that against you as I consider LA (well, SoCal really) to still be my second home. There are certainly some ugly/bad areas in/around LA (like any major city), but there are some great aspects and places as well.

And I love DL and Anaheim (warts and all)!

San Diego is beautiful, but for some reason tends to bore me after a while.

~GFC~

 

[njDizFan]

Right mind?

Well, that's a loaded question. I hinted at starting a 'Mental Health and the Fan Community' thread in anotherDisneyplace and you would have thought I burned down a church filled with orphans.

I will say that the behavior of defending getting less than you should and defending it ignorantly is something not unique to Disney ... and since this forum strives to stay away from the political, all I'm going to say is you live in a society where people take to the streets to fight for the rights of insurance companies to make billions in profits while people die from preventable causes due to having no insurance ... you live in a society where people have marches and meetings to support corporations making billions having the right to pay no taxes and not be 'encumbered' by any controls from the government etc...

So ... is it any wonder that people will defend Disney, a company that has way too much goodwill due to things it accomplished decades ago and people that did amazing things but have been dead longer than most here have been alive, when anyone dares question it?

Now ... whether they are in their right minds or just not very realistic in having a mature, fully developed, compassionate and fair world view is the real issue and I doubt it's one that could be had here sadly.

~GFC~

Coulda woulda shoulda been a great thread and one that needs to be addressed. It all ties into the thread you strted a few days ago about the D23 community.

TWDC knows that its legion of fans are obsessive/compulsive and they use every possible form of media and interaction to milk that.

Just a small list of things that the Disney fan has at their disposal to feed their need:

6 worldwide resorts
Television station
fan websites
Disney websites(including Twitter, FB, social media)
Disney stores
Disney radio
DVD/CD
Disney dating
DVC
Cruise ships
D23
fanbased zines
Disney branded merchandise


I'm sure there are many many more examples but you get my point, if you are a fan you can be plugged whenever/wherever you want to get your Disney dose.

 

[TP2000]

I also don't buy those numbers. DLR's tourism numbers are going up.

Yeah, none of us here with current knowledge of the Disneyland Resort bought those old 70/30 numbers. :wave:

It just didn't add up, and didn't feel right for what we experience every time we go to Disneyland in recent years.

And today Al Lutz has a massive update on Miceage, and buried in it as part of his info on DCA marketing strategy for 2012 he outlines the latest attendance demographics fresh from the end of the Disney fiscal year a few weeks ago. And it's much closer to what my original hunch (and wdw1974's info was too) was in this thread a few days ago...

The combined breakdown of the two Anaheim parks for the just completed Fiscal 2011, with the decline or rise of each demographic versus Fiscal 2010 attendance;

•Domestic Tourist Attendance: 6.5 Million, +4% over 2010
•International Tourist Attendance: 2.1 Million, +10% over 2010
•Local (Non-AP) Attendance: 3.4 Million, -5% under 2010
•Annual Passport Attendance: 7.4 Million, flat from 2010
•Complimentary Attendance: 2.1 Million, -4% under 2010

As you can see, in just the last few years the two Anaheim parks have finally broken free of the dreaded 70/30 split Disneyland worked with for decades. They are now closer to a 55/45 split with the attendance being made up of roughly 55% locals or annual passholders, and 45% domestic and international tourists (those complimentary admissions split roughly in half between locals and tourists, and even with the free tickets their in-park spending increases the further away they live). -Al Lutz

Statistics straight from Burbank to this thread. :lol:

No offense to Jason Surrell though, as what he said about attendance in that Haunted Mansion Holiday presentation was accurate back in 2001 when Mansion Holiday first opened in Disneyland. And the 70/30 figure stayed accurate for several years afterwards in Anaheim during the early 00's when WDW management was likely looking at the Disneyland response to Mansion Holiday and trying to decide if they wanted to do it too.

But it's attendance information that is no longer accurate, and it's old information being thrown out to a room of drooling fans in 2011 as he references management decisions made back in 2001 and 2002 using that old info.

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
BTW, anyone who thinks I am an evil Spirit doesn't know the restraint I have exhibited in NOT commenting on a thread here lamenting the fact that someone took a trip to WDW and wasn't barraged by CMs saying 'HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!! HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!!! HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!!

Well I for one would love to see your comments.

I need to walk carefully here ... like those dudes who walk on hot rocks :ROFLOL: ... because I realize this comment will get some folks thinking 'that resembles me' ... and while people are free to enjoy others spitting out meaningless phrases, I do have an opinion.

Especially when you read trip reports from folks who spend $7,000 on MAGICal vacations and one of the most important parts of their stay is when $8 an hour CMs (many who hate their jobs) tell them to HAVE A MAGICAL DAY or HAVE A MAGICAL NIGHT or HAVE A MAGICAL TIME IN THE FANTASYLAND QUAIL TILE RESTROOMS:drevil::king:

I read a report here a while ago (and I NEVER, unless asked, generally post on someone's thread about their trips) where someone who was a WDW regular said they were disappointed in their DLR trip and couldn't really put a finger on why because they enjoyed the parks and the attractions and the food and on the final night they asked a CM a question and he/she responded quite nicely and politely and then told them to 'have a nice evening'. ... And THAT (and, no, I am not kidding) apparently made one spouse turn to the other and comment that in their numerous days at DLR how no one had told them the ridiculous, meaningless and overused catch phrase (which has another meaning if the CM doesn't like you that is less than MAGICal ) and how that somehow greatly lessened the trip.

I have no idea who said it ... this was a while back. For all I know they are reading this. And I do realize there's no way I can put this nicely ... so I'll just say that anyone with such a mindset doesn't come off as a well-balanced person to me.

I don't ever want to hear that phrase again, as it is absolutely meaningless and is also used to gloss over any legit concerns or criticisms you may have. It's juvenile and doesn't fill me with MAGIC and Pixie Dust when I hear it ... I almost cringe.

That's about the nicest things I can say on said topic.

~GFC~

 

[TP2000]

San Diego is beautiful, but for some reason tends to bore me after a while.

Isn't that the truth?!? I lived in San Diego for a few years, and it was perfectly paradise-like, yet I slowly longed to move north to OC. I've had close family in San Diego for decades, and wonderful friends, and still I got bored. Love it for weekend jaunts, or Thanksgiving dinner, or sea kayaking the caves in La Jolla. But then...

I think it's the truly perfect climate, and the close-but-no-cigar location where you are near all the big stuff in SoCal but it still takes an hour or two to drive there.

However, after living in several big cities on the East Coast and the South, I have to say the populace of San Diego is clearly the most physically active and attractive (stunningly so, really) and most friendly and happy that I've ever seen in any American city. And yet that gets boring after a while. Odd how it works. :veryconfu

 

[WDW1974]

Wow looks like you were correct Spirit. At least according to Al Lutz today. He is reporting a 55/45 split at Disneyland now. You were even being conservative with your 60/40 split

I just read that. And I do believe Al's numbers are dead on now ... my numbers, which again came from current DLR Prez George Kalogridis, are a few years old at this point. That 70/30 deal is ancient now and meaningless.

I can easily see them creeping from 60% to 55% now. ... But I do feel that whole locals vs. out of towners vs. once in a lifers vs. APers vs. DVCers vs. once every other year families with 2.6 kids who own Dodge minivans really takes people's focus away from where it should be.

What's good for the parks/resorts as a whole is ultimately good for ALL guests, no matter where they fall in the spectrum ... and that doesn't change whether you are in Orlando, Anaheim, Hong Kong etc .

I did think his column was interesting if not high on news.

~GFC~

 

[TP2000]

I read a report here a while ago (and I NEVER, unless asked, generally post on someone's thread about their trips) where someone who was a WDW regular said they were disappointed in their DLR trip and couldn't really put a finger on why because they enjoyed the parks and the attractions and the food and on the final night they asked a CM a question and he/she responded quite nicely and politely and then told them to 'have a nice evening'. ... And THAT (and, no, I am not kidding) apparently made one spouse turn to the other and comment that in their numerous days at DLR how no one had told them the ridiculous, meaningless and overused catch phrase (which has another meaning if the CM doesn't like you that is less than MAGICal ) and how that somehow greatly lessened the trip.

I have no idea who said it ... this was a while back. For all I know they are reading this. And I do realize there's no way I can put this nicely ... so I'll just say that anyone with such a mindset doesn't come off as a well-balanced person to me.

I don't ever want to hear that phrase again, as it is absolutely meaningless and is also used to gloss over any legit concerns or criticisms you may have. It's juvenile and doesn't fill me with MAGIC and Pixie Dust when I hear it ... I almost cringe.

I remembered that thread too, it was over in the Disneyland section this past August, and it was a fascinating outlook from a WDW regular and his family who made their first trip to Disneyland.

Here's the quote from the TR from this website, although I'll leave the user name off of it as I don't know he wants to be dragged into this new topic.

I think the biggest thing, and maybe the best way to describe it is this - on our 3rd day at Disneyland we asked a Cast member about that nights performance of Fantasmic. After answering our question, the cast member (who was very friendly) left us with "I'm glad I could help. Have a good night". My wife and I both looked at each other and almost at the same time we both realized - not once in 3 days had anyone, not one person, said to us "Have a magical day!" We never did hear that during our trip to Disneyland and that, above everything else, is disappointing.

And I read that and thought "That's exactly what I don't like about WDW!" That cloying, corporate, mindless and charmless "Have a Magical Day!" shtick the CM's autobots in Orlando puke out after any customer interaction, good or bad, just makes my skin crawl. :hurl:

If they start doing that kind of junk at Disneyland I'll tear up my pass and start going to Knott's Berry Farm instead. And yet, for some folks, that really means something to them and they think it's genuine and a key part of their experience at Disney World. Absolutely bizarre how people could think that, and not see right through it.