Meg and Co. Head West ...

[ScoutN]

Yes. I don't dispute that at all. This is a generation that lives while playing with their iPhones, iPods, iPads, iHavenolifes etc. People seem to have the attention span of flies. Does anyone even read books (those things with pages in them anymore?)

I have some popular novels from Civil War era here that are fairly good reads!

Be careful ... yesterday was my holiday and I can be an evil Spirit when reminded of my age!

So Grandpa Spirit is more adequate? I could not resist :zipit:

I don't say Disney exists in a vacuum. When I use my wonderful Walmarted label, I believe WDW is only a small microcosm of a much larger, much sadder and much deeper Walmarting of American society and what people are willing to accept (waaaay more than they should would be my opinion).

As long as mass production will be cheaper in other countries then it will remain that way.

I wish you luck with that since our space program has been pretty much decimated. Amazing that we could go to the moon in the 1960s, but in an era with much more powerful computers that are ON YOUR SMART PHONES we can't even get a ride into lower orbit without asking the Russians for a lift.

THIS is a topic I can go in for pages and chapters about. NASA as a whole has been gutted. W had NASA back on the right track with Lockheed's Orion Capsule. As you know that was canned. Lockheed stayed on research with the Orion Capsule with revisions, test center, and new infrastructure desing on largely their own dollar. In my opinion that is what is saving NASA and allowing the SLS system they are working on to make forward progress. I live about 20 minutes from NASA Langley and are privileged enough to visit regularly to see the projects.

The said Orion Capsule just last week had a major splashdown test conducted at Langley's Aqua Gantry Testing Facility. One image and I will stop the thread highjack with NASA items.

As to DVCers, I just wish they'd become the vocal fans that Disney has a love-hate (but mostly hate) relationship with in Anaheim. I just don't see that. I see Disney conditioning them that the post-pink-castle WDW is the REAL Disney quality product and that plus a does of self-effacing nostalgia is what Disney is supposed to be.

That and character greets, turkey legs, pintrading, vinyl and Duffy!

How did I ever enjoy (let alone love) WDW when none of that existed?

Well as I said before my family submits the list we compile with each survey post-trip each visit. Hopefully others will soon begin to do the same. With the guesting trends and how booked DVC Resorts are beginning to become then maybe they shall all voice. Surveys are the only method I know of to officially voice an opinion. Outside of email that is.

What's wrong with turkey legs? For as long as I can remember my dad has always bought a few our last night and that was our meal headed home. Maybe it is the nostalgia of it?

I have only one park in the USA that I haven't been that I really want to get to -- and it is BGW. I know many Disney lovers who tell me it is a better quality, better run product. I haven't been to Tampa's version in your lifetime. But I love the Sea World/Aquatica product in O-Town, and feel it is superior to Disney in many of the basics (cleanliness, food value, fresher product etc)

With our typical 4+ Florida visits per year we make our rounds to the O-Ville SWP&E establishments as well as BGT. In '09 not long after the buyout I was not impressed with SW's upkeep. This past May and August it appeared to have been better. Now Aquatica, wow, all I can say. The place is beautiful. It would seem you have been around parks for a while at this point. I am kind of mindblown that you have yet to visit BGW. Naturally some of us locals to BGW have not been happy with some changes enacted post-buyout. It is all still world class quality, excellent food, team members, upkeep, regular paintings, custodial crews, and maintenance EVERYWHERE. I will say I am proud of the place. As I have stated to many here. If you visit then shoot me a PM. Water Country USA which is right across I-64 from BGW recently had a major announcement released that is nearly going to double the size of the park. Blackstone seemingly wants to dump a ton of capital in this area. The only other park near is King's Dominion which is nearly zero competition to BGW.

 

[janoimagine]

Also, not a significant point, but TP2000, at a couple points, you've inferred that Jason Surrell was delivering a scripted presentation when giving that 70/30 number.

That video must not have contained the full presentation. If there is one thing Jason Surrell does *not* do, it's deliver scripted presentations.

Scripted or not the information he presented regarding the park demographics are clearly innacurate, and when you look at the numbers for the past 2 years (09 and 10) the trend has been leveling itself out and the argument that Disneyland is a locals park, and being the reason it is prone to seasonal overlays -vs- Disney World is a load of corporate BS. Surrell is a talented writer, and producer, and knows how to lead a group, but not above corporate policy when it comes to what he can and cannot say during a presentation, and I would bet that his 70/30 comment was well rehearsed before hand.

I like Surrell, I have met him several times and have had some decent conversations with him (we share similar backgrounds and have some common friends in the film industry), however lets remember that he was most recently the creative lead on Stitches Supersonic Celebration, and given its short run in tomorrowland, is probably under a little pressure from above to pick it up.

 

[The Duck]

TDA Executives went to Wizarding World of Harry Potter for reference on how to run a successful operation. That is just flat-out embarrassing:shrug:.

I don't see this as a big deal. Many corporations check out on the competition from time to time to get an idea of what's going on. It's old news that WWHP is doing well so it's quite likely that Disney execs have snooped around more than a few times.

 

[jt04]

Fascinating article from Al. The only thing we didn't get was more detail about where these domestic tourists are coming from. Are they people who weren't vacationing before? Vacationing at another, non-Disney location? OR, are they converted WDW tourists? It's the elephant in the room, really. I hypothesize that many of these extra tourists at Disneyland are people who previously only vacationed at WDW. While they may not have forsaken WDW completely, I'd bet there are many repeat visitors who will do WDW "next time". Al sorta touched on it when he mentioned that Disneyland got permission to advertise in markets where WDW previously had dibs. With the Internet and the ability to research a potential vacation spot combined with the age of cheap jet travel that we live in, I think TWDC will increasingly find that they have two mega-flagship resorts in the US competing with each other for the tourist dollars, not the clean east of the Rockies, west of the Rockies split. DLR has had an amazing string of hits ever since the 50th anniversary celebration, and people are taking notice.

Chew on this: after the DCA renaissance is complete, both DL and DCA will easily be full day or multiple day experiences with very few weak spots in the batting order. DLR will be in prime position for developing their third gate. I don't think the intra-resort transportation is quite there yet, but Disney already owns the land for a third gate. Whether it is a water park or a theme park, another gate at DLR certainly pushes it a lot closer to WDW, dontcha think?

Uh, no. But it is good to have goals.

WDW will break ground on Avatarland before you know it.

Here is the reality of it all. The DLR resort will soon be able to carry its own weight. And you are right that they very well might choose to build a third gate or something else from their own "resources" so to speak. Fantastic if they can but there will be an impact on WDW too.

By the DLR resort able to create hefty profit margins (which is the point of all the changes) it will make it possible for Disney to be much more agressive in investing in central Florida. Afterall, they have plenty of resort rooms to fill and DVC's to sell at WDW. By design I suspect. Nothing would have been worse than building cutting edge attractions and finding your guests are forced to stay off-property.

Disneyland's success going forward from next summer will indirectly lead to a greater WDW.

In the words of Paul Harvey...."Now you know the rest of the story"

TDO = genius

 

[janoimagine]

Disneyland's success going forward from next summer will indirectly lead to a greater WDW.

In the words of Paul Harvey...."Now you know the rest of the story"

TDO = genius

:lol:

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[jt04]

:lol:

Keep telling yourself that.

Interesting you not only fail to respond to my post in an analytical way but you had to edit it also. Meh, I am used to that. My conclusions are tough to refute. I understand the difficulty. :wave:


Try this on for size;

One of the factors in TWDC holding WDW back is so it would not overwhelm Disneyland. They need a healthy, thriving Disneyland before they can give WDW the adds it needs. And all the while it has to keep the stock viable.

The order in which everything has happened and the strategy is quite clear for those who dare to put away their bias and view things objectively.

In a nutshell, they had to fix the parks at Disneyland and increase lodging at WDW so they could then invest in the parks at WDW (see Avatarland) and handle the crowds while not hurting Disneyland attendance in the long term and while keeping the stock viable. Clear as a bell.

TDO = GENIUS

 

[janoimagine]

Considering my post was directly below yours, anybody could read what your entire statement was, I was attempting to spare the rest of the forum your ramblings.

Breaking ground on Avatarland is well over a year away, and was only done in response to local competition, had Universal not built the WWOHP, the Hallelujah Mountains would never have come to Orlando.

So, let me try to understand this ... by your rationalle letting show quality suffer in the meantime, having attractions with ________ poor maintenance, cutting entertainment while increasing prices is all part of the grand design to make WDW better??? Where do you come up with this garbage??? I am blown away by your tunnel vision, but at least you have one thing going for you, you seem to be the target consumer that Orlando likes. You should apply for a job in Megs PR Department, as you seem to spin anything they do into a false positive.

There are clearly two different schools of thought between Anaheim and Orlando, one actually takes pride in there work and in the values that defined the brand, and the other just phones it in, takes a paycheck and does the bare minimum to maintain the status quo.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

I was actually coming to a similar conclusion as jt04, but without the conspiracy theory grandeur. Through the development of the "Disneyland Resort", a series of smart management decisions and with the amount of money being poured in to fix DCA, the DLR has pulled itself into a state where you can have a legitimate discussion about whether DLR or WDW is a better vacation destination right now. Not that I'm casting a vote one way or another, but I think you could legitimately argue either side which is huge in itself. With the internet being what it is, people have access to information about the quality product at DLR like never before. I think this could lead (or has led) to some WDW vacations morphing into DLR vacations. Of course, there are 30,000 hotel rooms to fill at WDW; that means TWDC really needs the bulk of the tourists to visit WDW... so in a crazy way, a better DLR could actually lead to increased investment at WDW.

In short: people want DLR, but Disney needs them to pick WDW to fill hotel rooms, so WDW gets cool new stuff.

 

[unkadug]

The major flaw with JT's reasoning is the TDO had ANYTHING to do with this.


TDO=pawns

 

[GLaDOS]

One of the factors in TWDC holding WDW back is so it would not overwhelm Disneyland.

Which is why WDW got 3 additions during Disneyland's 50th. And Disneyland got none.

Sure, that makes sense.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Through the development of the "Disneyland Resort", a series of smart management decisions and with the amount of money being poured in to fix DCA, the DLR has pulled itself into a state where you can have a legitimate discussion about whether DLR or WDW is a better vacation destination right now.

To be fair, most of the general public (I mean, the ones who know the differences between the two - in other words, understand that WDW is not just Disneyland Park in Florida), will probably still say "WDW is better, duh!"

But you're right, anyone with extensive knowledge of both properties will tell you that its now a case of quality (DLR) vs. quantity (WDW), and its a shame, really. WDW is their crown jewel, it should be treated as such.

 

[sponono88]

Which is why WDW got 3 additions during Disneyland's 50th. And Disneyland got none.

Sure, that makes sense.

I guess that depends on what your definition of "addition" is! Disneyland opened the following during the 50th..

- Remember... Dreams Come True Fireworks
- Walt Disney's Parade of Dreams
- Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blasters
- Disneyland: The First 50 Magical Years Exhibit
- Major renovation projects including the relaunched Space Mountain (2-yr refurb), Jungle Cruise, and restoration of the Enchanted Tiki Room.
- Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage (didn't open '07 but was announced as part of the 50th festivities.)

At DCA:
- Block Party Bash
- Turtle Talk With Crush
- Monsters Inc: Mike and Sully to the Rescue

 

[jt04]

Considering my post was directly below yours, anybody could read what your entire statement was, I was attempting to spare the rest of the forum your ramblings.

Breaking ground on Avatarland is well over a year away, and was only done in response to local competition, had Universal not built the WWOHP, the Hallelujah Mountains would never have come to Orlando.

So, let me try to understand this ... by your rationalle letting show quality suffer in the meantime, having attractions with ________ poor maintenance, cutting entertainment while increasing prices is all part of the grand design to make WDW better??? Where do you come up with this garbage??? I am blown away by your tunnel vision, but at least you have one thing going for you, you seem to be the target consumer that Orlando likes. You should apply for a job in Megs PR Department, as you seem to spin anything they do into a false positive.

There are clearly two different schools of thought between Anaheim and Orlando, one actually takes pride in there work and in the values that defined the brand, and the other just phones it in, takes a paycheck and does the bare minimum to maintain the status quo.

I think that TDO has had very limited capital to work with since Iger became CEO so some things have not been up to what they should be. Eisner left huge challanges but it appears to me Iger has implemented a long-term strategy that will see WDW do well in the near future. When Iger is done he may just well be known as a CEO who understood the imporatance of a quarterly report but not at the expense of sound long-term decisions. This is why Iger has not purged TDO. He understands he is asking them to do more with less for the time being. That is how it appears to me.

I was actually coming to a similar conclusion as jt04, but without the conspiracy theory grandeur. Through the development of the "Disneyland Resort", a series of smart management decisions and with the amount of money being poured in to fix DCA, the DLR has pulled itself into a state where you can have a legitimate discussion about whether DLR or WDW is a better vacation destination right now. Not that I'm casting a vote one way or another, but I think you could legitimately argue either side which is huge in itself. With the internet being what it is, people have access to information about the quality product at DLR like never before. I think this could lead (or has led) to some WDW vacations morphing into DLR vacations. Of course, there are 30,000 hotel rooms to fill at WDW; that means TWDC really needs the bulk of the tourists to visit WDW... so in a crazy way, a better DLR could actually lead to increased investment at WDW.

In short: people want DLR, but Disney needs them to pick WDW to fill hotel rooms, so WDW gets cool new stuff.

I agree. The FLE and Avatarland are more indicative of the future if the DLR does well.

To be fair, most of the general public (I mean, the ones who know the differences between the two - in other words, understand that WDW is not just Disneyland Park in Florida), will probably still say "WDW is better, duh!"

But you're right, anyone with extensive knowledge of both properties will tell you that its now a case of quality (DLR) vs. quantity (WDW), and its a shame, really. WDW is their crown jewel, it should be treated as such.

See above. WDW is getting the FLE and Avatarland. I spoke a couple years ago about how the pendulum swings back and fourth as to where capital is directed. If the DLR succeeds and continues to succeed you may see a new paradigm. One where both resorts continue to add content and steadily increase quality in a much more consistent manner. I think this possibility is well within TWDC's grasp thanks to Iger. And despite all the 'chicken littles' who fail to see the big picture.

I don't believe WDW is going to be broken up and sold. I do think the company was in danger of having major divisions sold off about 6 years ago or even a complete takeover. Iger turned the ship around and is very close to securing a sound future for the company including WDW.

 

[jt04]

I guess that depends on what your definition of "addition" is! Disneyland opened the following during the 50th..

- Remember... Dreams Come True Fireworks
- Walt Disney's Parade of Dreams
- Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blasters
- Disneyland: The First 50 Magical Years Exhibit
- Major renovation projects including the relaunched Space Mountain (2-yr refurb), Jungle Cruise, and restoration of the Enchanted Tiki Room.
- Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage (didn't open '07 but was announced as part of the 50th festivities.)

At DCA:
- Block Party Bash
- Turtle Talk With Crush
- Monsters Inc: Mike and Sully to the Rescue

This was all conceived pre-Iger.

 

[devoy1701]

To be fair, most of the general public (I mean, the ones who know the differences between the two - in other words, understand that WDW is not just Disneyland Park in Florida), will probably still say "WDW is better, duh!"

But you're right, anyone with extensive knowledge of both properties will tell you that its now a case of quality (DLR) vs. quantity (WDW), and its a shame, really. WDW is their crown jewel, it should be treated as such.

Quantity only in amount of parks and resorts. The number of attractions is relatively equal in the fact that DL has just about as many attractions in its 2 parks that WDW has in 4.

So I'm not sure if that's even a valid way to look at it unfortunately.

 

[HMF]

No, going to Nara Dreamland to learn how to run a theme park would be embarrassing.

There's nothing wrong with UoF showing off their baby to other executives that are in the exact same business.

I mean it is embarrassing to WDW that Universal is running a better operation now while WDW continues to decline thus TDA would rather emulate Universal than TDO.:animwink:

 

[wdwmagic]

I mean it is embarrassing to WDW that Universal is running a better operation now while WDW continues to decline thus TDA would rather emulate Universal than TDO.:animwink:

I don't think they are running a better operation. Universal is nowhere near the size and complexity of WDW, neither does it have anywhere near the amount of experiences that WDW offers.

Universal is like running a theme park.

WDW is like running a city.

No comparison really.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I don't think they are running a better operation. Universal is nowhere near the size and complexity of WDW, neither does it have anywhere near the amount of experiences that WDW offers.

Universal is like running a theme park.

WDW is like running a city.

No comparison really.

And beyond those differences, I don't really think the statement is true anyway (my opinion of course). WWoHP is incredible, to be sure, but the rest of IoA is nothing spectacular. Universal builds great rides, but its track record at keeping effects working is no better than Disney's--and the Hulk coaster is downright painful now!

This is why I'm glad I got to WWoHP in its first year of operation, when everything is working. It'll be sad if they let it get run down (so many effects were broken on the Jurassic Park ride!)

 

[Pioneer Hall]

And beyond those differences, I don't really think the statement is true anyway (my opinion of course). WWoHP is incredible, to be sure, but the rest of IoA is nothing spectacular. Universal builds great rides, but its track record at keeping effects working is no better than Disney's--and the Hulk coaster is downright painful now!

This is why I'm glad I got to WWoHP in its first year of operation, when everything is working. It'll be sad if they let it get run down (so many effects were broken on the Jurassic Park ride!)

Hulk is nothing compared to Rip Ride and Rockit. I rode that for the first time a few weeks ago and it was without question the most painful coaster experience I have ever had.

 

[bstiles]

I don't think JK will let her prize possession fall by the wayside in disrepair. That thing will be kept in tip top shape.