Meg and Co. Head West ...

[WDW1974]

Okay, so I guess I am really confused. Tom Staggs is obviously not an unintelligent person, and no doubt Disney has people that do nothing but monitor the on-line forums, so he MUST know of the bad show at WDW, so how can he, in good consience, not FIRE the one person that seems to be damaging the Disney brand and excellence (Meg Crofton), more than any other single person?!?!?!?! What the heck is he thinking? She is an HR person, and doesn't seem to know anything about what a quality Disney show is.

While I am no fan of Meg at all, she is absolutely not the cause of all that is wrong with Disney Parks or even WDW. She was largely a figurehead in her position until Al Weiss fell from grace (largely due to personal issues that didn't have much to do with WDW Co.) ... Meg isn't an evil person out to destroy Walt's legacy. She is just largely a clueless exec that has been in the right place at the right time and played the political game well enough to position herself for the title.

She has largely done what Al, Jay, Tom and Bob asked her to. Homogenize the product. Develop more hotels and timeshares. Cut costs (quality). And every once in a while get out in public, read a script the Celebration Place Gang wrote for her and get inside quickly.

That's really Meg.

Even if she wanted to do things the old ways, she wouldn't be allowed to because that's not how Iger wants to run Disney or Rasulo and Staggs want to run P&R.

And Disney is one company that never wants its managers and execs (or front line CMs) to point out things that are wrong or need fixing/improving. Everything is always MAGICal ... even when it isn't.

BTW, anyone who thinks I am an evil Spirit doesn't know the restraint I have exhibited in NOT commenting on a thread here lamenting the fact that someone took a trip to WDW and wasn't barraged by CMs saying 'HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!! HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!!! HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!!'

I think one simple way to generate more funds for maintenace is to look at Apple. They just released their latest quarterly results, and said NO stockholder dividend now, or anytime soon in the future, since we are putting the money back into the company. Seems like Disney could do this as well, letting the shareholders know that SHOW is more important than money.

I don't really want to compare Disney to Apple while we're still deifying Steve Jobs (a visionary in his business, perhaps, but a very complex individual that had warts like everyone else) ... and I'd rather see the execs have legit salaries and compensation packages. I fail to see why Bob Iger is worth $28 million while firefighters and teachers are sent home and then told they're lazy because they can't find replacement jobs ... but that's another subject.

I have been going to WDW since 1978, and the parks have never looked worse than in the last 10 years. We will be finally making our first DL trip next May. :sohappy: We will eventually see them all. Oh, and we are DVC members that are in the vocal minority it seems. Every trip, we fill out surveys about how the regular maintenance doesn't seem to happen. Light bulbs burned out for a week, paint chipped everywhere, AAs not working, etc. We put it all into the comments, so we hope that someday, our home resort will get the attention it so much deserves!

What took you so long?!?!

I often see folks who will list their WDW trips and you see they've been to WDW 36 times since 1992, but haven't been to DL (or any foreign resorts) and I always wonder why. Like are they afraid of LA? Are they just comfortable eating chocolate ice cream and don't want to try another flavor? Do they truly feel they are protected by a curtain/dome of pixie dust on Walt's hallowed Florida Property?

BTW, the above isn't aimed at you individually, but folks in general who claim to be 'Disney fans' yet only visit WDW ... and do so ad nauseum. As I told another forum member privately recently, I'd take a year off from WDW for four days at TDR in a heartbeat. Actually, I think I'd take two years off!

~GFC~

 

[Bolna]

It illustrates a big problem with the way today's guests are.

Yes, that's certainly true. But I was more wondering what else Disney can learn from these surveys? They don't show what other results this dissatisfaction might cause.

Do those guests decide not to come back to WDW? - That's not likely since they already decided to go despite knowing that something was going to be closed. So why should they behave differently the next time?

Do they tell their friends that WDW is a horrible place? - If they go back again regardless of their previous dissatisfaction, which they knew would happen, their friends would think they are insane if they suddenly start complaining what a horrible place Disney is.

So what else negative effect could there be for WDW as a whole?

That's why I said that the surveys don't tell Disney what it needs to know if people complain for stupid reason and without taking action. And that those complains take focus away from areas that may collect a little bit lower dissatisfaction but might have a much more longterm effect.

 

[COProgressFan]

I think the danger is really that there will be a point when all those slightly diminished experience don't add up to a still great vacation anymore, but only to an average product. I get the feeling that at the moment Disney is living off its reputation. But once that gets damaged, the fall might be very fast and very hard.

Sadly, I think we are rapidly approaching this point. Some might say we are already there at WDW. Damage has been done, and fixing things is going to take a LOT more money than if they had done things right in the first place.

People don't always know why their trip wasn't what they were promised (marketing magic, dreams, etc.) but like in your sister's case, she didn't know what was wrong, just felt some thing was off. This happens to lots of guests every day. They just leave the place feeling that WDW wasn't all they had thought it would be, and just don't come back, or tell their friends about their experience, etc. Long term, that poses many problems, which management doesn't seem to realize or care about.

It takes a long time for people to develop an attachment to a brand, but it that brand relationship can be damaged very quickly.

 

[COProgressFan]

Yes, that's certainly true. But I was more wondering what else Disney can learn from these surveys? They don't show what other results this dissatisfaction might cause.

Do those guests decide not to come back to WDW? - That's not likely since they already decided to go despite knowing that something was going to be closed. So why should they behave differently the next time?

Do they tell their friends that WDW is a horrible place? - If they go back again regardless of their previous dissatisfaction, which they knew would happen, their friends would think they are insane if they suddenly start complaining what a horrible place Disney is.

So what else negative effect could there be for WDW as a whole?

That's why I said that the surveys don't tell Disney what it needs to know if people complain for stupid reason and without taking action. And that those complains take focus away from areas that may collect a little bit lower dissatisfaction but might have a much more longterm effect.

Unfortunately, from what I've heard, Disney surveys are used largely to justify decisions that have already been made/or will be made, or cover the as*es of execs to show their bosses how magical and wonderful things are. I also firmly question the methodology and analysis of the surveys and their results.

 

[devoy1701]

Sadly, I think we are rapidly approaching this point. Some might say we are already there at WDW. Damage has been done, and fixing things is going to take a LOT more money than if they had done things right in the first place.

People don't always know why their trip wasn't what they were promised (marketing magic, dreams, etc.) but like in your sister's case, she didn't know what was wrong, just felt some thing was off. This happens to lots of guests every day. They just leave the place feeling that WDW wasn't all they had thought it would be, and just don't come back, or tell their friends about their experience, etc. Long term, that poses many problems, which management doesn't seem to realize or care about.

It takes a long time for people to develop an attachment to a brand, but it that brand relationship can be damaged very quickly.

Especially when you have other options available. After visiting DL myself, we would much rather pay a premium to experience those parks.

We've been without APs now for 8 months and there have only been 2 or 3 times that we've thought about getting new passes. We know we will eventually but we're trying to see how long we can hold off. This December is a big "maybe" for us because this will be the first December we don't do a Christmas trip to a Disney World or Disneyland in 6 years and we feel a void...though the conversation we're having isn't just "should we get passes and take a trip this year (which used to be a no-brainer for us)." It's now "do we want to spend the money to go to Disney World, or should we spend a couple days at Universal and Sea World? Or do we want to go to the Smokeys and enjoy the snow and try our luck at ice hiking and skiing?"


We've noticed the decline in offerings and experience and we very much question the value of our trip to WDW as of late. I do sincerely hope that this visit out West is for Meg to get some new insight on how to manage the WDW Resort, though being this far into her career, I doubt that is the case. The only thing I can hope is that TDA doesn't just roll over and take it.

Like are they afraid of LA?

I do highly dislike LA...Disneyland and Anaheim not so much, but LA was horrid... :hurl:

I will venture to San Diego next time I'm out there instead of heading back into LA.

 

[janoimagine]

Unfortunately, from what I've heard, Disney surveys are used largely to justify decisions that have already been made/or will be made, or cover the as*es of execs to show their bosses how magical and wonderful things are. I also firmly question the methodology and analysis of the surveys and their results.

I agree ... I dont know what they did with my results ... but last trip I took a total of four ... even got paid for one ... and took a fifth one online after I got home. I was not flattering to the current state of things at the Orlando property at all ... I did give praise when it was due, and answered every question honelstly, but for the most part I refused to sugar coat my answers, I was brutally honest ... I wonder what truly happens to these surveys, or if the really honest 'real' ones ever make it to the top of the Disney food chain, or if they just choose to show the ones that have clearly been phoned in.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

While I am no fan of Meg at all, she is absolutely not the cause of all that is wrong with Disney Parks or even WDW. She was largely a figurehead in her position until Al Weiss fell from grace (largely due to personal issues that didn't have much to do with WDW Co.) ... Meg isn't an evil person out to destroy Walt's legacy. She is just largely a clueless exec that has been in the right place at the right time and played the political game well enough to position herself for the title.

She has largely done what Al, Jay, Tom and Bob asked her to. Homogenize the product. Develop more hotels and timeshares. Cut costs (quality). And every once in a while get out in public, read a script the Celebration Place Gang wrote for her and get inside quickly.

That's really Meg.

Even if she wanted to do things the old ways, she wouldn't be allowed to because that's not how Iger wants to run Disney or Rasulo and Staggs want to run P&R.

Hmm, did not know all of that. I will end the Meg bashing then. I had thought she was more responsible for the lack of maintenance and quality of show.

BTW, anyone who thinks I am an evil Spirit doesn't know the restraint I have exhibited in NOT commenting on a thread here lamenting the fact that someone took a trip to WDW and wasn't barraged by CMs saying 'HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!! HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!!! HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!!'

Nope, I for one do not believe that. You believe that the Disney standard that used to be, can be again if they execs wanted it to be. It is more so that way at HKDL and TDR according to many sources, and also getting a lot better at DL as well. Why is it that DL is getting better at show quality and not WDW?

I don't really want to compare Disney to Apple while we're still deifying Steve Jobs (a visionary in his business, perhaps, but a very complex individual that had warts like everyone else) ... and I'd rather see the execs have legit salaries and compensation packages. I fail to see why Bob Iger is worth $28 million while firefighters and teachers are sent home and then told they're lazy because they can't find replacement jobs ... but that's another subject.

Oh yeah, Steve had warts like all the rest of us, and could get quite upset if he didn't get his way. My only thinking was that Apple is not so much concerned with giving money to stockholders, and more about putting out a better product. I thought Disney should worry more about that as well.

What took you so long?!?!

I often see folks who will list their WDW trips and you see they've been to WDW 36 times since 1992, but haven't been to DL (or any foreign resorts) and I always wonder why. Like are they afraid of LA? Are they just comfortable eating chocolate ice cream and don't want to try another flavor? Do they truly feel they are protected by a curtain/dome of pixie dust on Walt's hallowed Florida Property?

BTW, the above isn't aimed at you individually, but folks in general who claim to be 'Disney fans' yet only visit WDW ... and do so ad nauseum. As I told another forum member privately recently, I'd take a year off from WDW for four days at TDR in a heartbeat. Actually, I think I'd take two years off!

~GFC~

I know it is not aimed at me. :wave: I used to live in Orlando, and visited all the time. Part of it is the fact that we have relatives that still live only a few hours from WDW, and we usually combine a visit to the parks, with a visit to relatives, so the kids can visit with them while they are still with us. Since our kids are now in college, my wife and I are taking more trips by ourselves, so it's easier on the pocketbook to use our DVC points to stay in a 1bdr at the Grand Californian, and only 2 plane tickets to LAX, rather than paying for multiple rooms, and flying 6 of us out there. We are taking a year off from WDW to do this!

I hope no one thinks that I do not love Disney. I do. However, I am not a fanboi that thinks everything they do is absolutely wonderful and that they can do no wrong. I do have a great time every trip there, but having gone there so many times, I notice the little things now more than ever. I stop to smell the roses, and I see the lack of attention to detail that is happening at WDW. I KNOW the show can be better, and I hope that some day, it will be again.

 

[TP2000]

I've also heard that WDW only has two maintenance teams: 1 for electrical and 1 for mechanical, whereas DLR has three: electrical, maintenance, and show figures. The latter would fall under mechanical for WDW and therefore they have an increased workload with less time to do it. Plus, since safety trumps everything else, if it takes their entire shift to get the mechanical work done, they have no time to work on show elements.

Thank you for that info! It now suddenly makes a lot more sense, since all of my recent visits to WDW it has been quite blatantly obvious that the animatronics and special effects were generally in bad condition. It's the showmanship qualities where WDW now falls behind the most.

Especially at the big, animatronic rides like Pirates, Small World, Mansion, etc. the animatronics in WDW are in really bad shape, just jiggling and wiggling and maybe doing a herky-jerky movement or two. Or worse, just sort of static figures. Whereas at Disneyland the exact same attractions, often several years older than the WDW clones, have animatronics that are smooth and fluid and have a wonderful range of full motion. It's quite noticeable, especially if you do what I like to do and spend a day at Disneyland as soon as I get back from WDW. (Or doing the "Big Disney Week" as I call it.)

So.... why can't WDW follow the Disneyland model and set up a separate maintenance team specifically for all the showmanship issues big and small that the best Disney rides are built with? That's the $64,000 Question!

 

[devoy1701]

Hmm, did not know all of that. I will end the Meg bashing then. I had thought she was more responsible for the lack of maintenance and quality of show.



Nope, I for one do not believe that. You believe that the Disney standard that used to be, can be again if they execs wanted it to be. It is more so that way at HKDL and TDR according to many sources, and also getting a lot better at DL as well. Why is it that DL is getting better at show quality and not WDW?



Oh yeah, Steve had warts like all the rest of us, and could get quite upset if he didn't get his way. My only thinking was that Apple is not so much concerned with giving money to stockholders, and more about putting out a better product. I thought Disney should worry more about that as well.



I know it is not aimed at me. :wave: I used to live in Orlando, and visited all the time. Part of it is the fact that we have relatives that still live only a few hours from WDW, and we usually combine a visit to the parks, with a visit to relatives, so the kids can visit with them while they are still with us. Since our kids are now in college, my wife and I are taking more trips by ourselves, so it's easier on the pocketbook to use our DVC points to stay in a 1bdr at the Grand Californian, and only 2 plane tickets to LAX, rather than paying for multiple rooms, and flying 6 of us out there. We are taking a year off from WDW to do this!

I hope no one thinks that I do not love Disney. I do. However, I am not a fanboi that thinks everything they do is absolutely wonderful and that they can do no wrong. I do have a great time every trip there, but having gone there so many times, I notice the little things now more than ever. I stop to smell the roses, and I see the lack of attention to detail that is happening at WDW. I KNOW the show can be better, and I hope that some day, it will be again.

While Meg might not be the cause of the decline in quality, she also appears to be doing nothing to end it. She has had plenty of time to and opportunity to correctly some of the plauging issues during her tenure. And there are ways to change corporate behavior in your area without necessarily going against the tides of the larger corporate culture. Case and Point how Disneyland operates versus Walt Disney World. '74 is absolutely correct in that Meg do-nothing corporate big wig who has been in the right place at the right time, operated as a yes-man (or woman) when necessary, and hasn't ever stuck her neck out to make a noticable impact.

I'll get flack for saying this, but ANYONE of us on here can do what Meg has done during her tenure (keep things status quo, make cuts when necessary that decrease overhead and have seemingly little impact on the final show, and try not to think or do anything too outside of the box). And for that, she does deserve the bashing...she hasn't done enough and she really doesn't care one way or another about it.

So please....carry on with the Bashing Meg Initiative.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

So.... why can't WDW follow the Disneyland model and set up a separate maintenance team specifically for all the showmanship issues big and small that the best Disney rides are built with? That's the $64,000 Question!

$$$. I've been told they won't hire on any more full time (full time being the operative words) maintenance Cast Members for the crews they already have. The idea that they'd put forth the money to create a third crew just for show figures, especially with how tight-fisted they are about everything else lately, is laughable.

 

[HMF]

Huh? It absolutely does.

The only official story for the Mansion is "A retirement home for 999 Happy Haunts". Other than that it is just a series of vignettes building up to a climax in the graveyard, that's it.

 

[imagineer boy]

The only official story for the Mansion is "A retirement home for 999 Happy Haunts". Other than that it is just a series of vignettes building up to a climax in the graveyard, that's it.

It basically only has a back story. Not a story that you experience as you go along.

 

[Tom Morrow]

^ Technically there isn't a backstory either. Or at least an official one.

BTW, anyone who thinks I am an evil Spirit doesn't know the restraint I have exhibited in NOT commenting on a thread here lamenting the fact that someone took a trip to WDW and wasn't barraged by CMs saying 'HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!! HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!!! HAVE A MAGICAL DAY!!!

Well I for one would love to see your comments.

 

[puntagordabob]

Hi Meg, hope you enjoy your visit to Disneyland! While you are out there please be sure to ride the Haunted Mansion Holiday! Also notice how their Halloween decorations extend trhoughout the park..... Also be sure to check out their Downtown Disney after dark, People actually having fun there with all the live bands etc that play there. Also be sure to check out all those AP holders enjoying their discount at the Counter Service locations....

Have fun and be sure to check out all their attraction and other special merchandise......

PS.... be sure to enjoy the Enchanted Tiki Room and ponder this question: Why did some people in the halls of power think that us WDWers are too stupid/impatient to enjoy the extra minute and a half of the show that Disneyland has currently??

 

[CountryBearFan]

I know people have complained that they would rather see Disney fix what they have before expanding into new areas. The problem is that expansion is necessary to absorb crowds when other options aren't available. The lack of proper expansion is why why Expedition Everest sits with a $15 million stuff animal. The lack of proper expansion is why Splash Mountain only goes down for a month to fix issues. If Florida had things like Indiana Jones Adventure, Star Tours, Submarine Voyage, The Matterhorn or other D/E ticket level attractions in their lineup it would be a lot easier to take something offline for proper refurbishments.

All the more reason to consider the Fantasyland expansion a HUGE blessing.

The additional attractions and extra space (which will not only increase attendance and capacity, but may very well bring in a ton of money as well) that the Magic Kingdom will be getting as a result of that expansion, IMO, will very well lead to incentives to do more refurbishments and possibly more seasonal overlays.

It would be a good way to help balance out the crowds and give guests incentives to keep visiting CBJ, HM, IaSW, etc. during specific seasons as well as prevent overcrowding in the Fantasyland Forest and Storybook Circus areas.


P.S.: As a side note, I personally feel that one of the primary reasons for the recent holiday season offering cutbacks (in addition to the economic recession, which we have yet to fully recover from) is because of money needing to be diverted into more long-term investments like the Fantasyland expansion (they are spending a ton of money on that as well as on other projects). I've decided to wait and see how things go after the launch of the New Fantasyland, therefore, I've decided to give up complaining about the absence of CBJ Xmas, Lights of Winter, etc. for at least a few years.

Beisdes, good things come to those who wait. Thank you very much and good night.

 

[GLaDOS]

$$$. I've been told they won't hire on any more full time (full time being the operative words) maintenance Cast Members for the crews they already have. The idea that they'd put forth the money to create a third crew just for show figures, especially with how tight-fisted they are about everything else lately, is laughable.

The current crews are severly understaffed as is. There's no way in hell they'll make a third.

 

[Rosso11]

Steve, that number is actually closer to 60% in Anaheim (a figure I got from the current resort prez himself). It covers the area roughly from the Mexican border north to Santa Barbara and east to Palm Springs.

But I HATE when someone respected as yourself trots it out as an excuse for WDW to be allowed to decay and bad show to go on. Sorry, that's not the Disney Way. It's what has been allowed to become that because of entitlement menatlity guests and, much more significantly, management that will use them as an excuse to improve the bottom line.

Attractions need regular downtime. That is a FACT.

Attractions need regular maintainance. That is a FACT.

Closing anything on any day is going to upset some people. That is a FACT.

But someone will have to 'splain to a simple-minded Spirit such as myself why letting attractions and show fall apart (which eventually leads to longer and unplanned closures) is somehow the answer. And why back in WDW's first 25 MAGICal years when there were only 1-2-3 parks, how it was that attractions regularly were closed to be given the TLC they require. But now in the massive BIGGER IS BETTER four-gated huge mega-resort where it isn't unusual to have folks visit two and even three parks on a given day, that you can't shut things down and have them in top show quality EVERY day -- you know, the Disney Way.

That's what we all pay for and it isn't what we all have been getting for years.

~GFC~

Wow looks like you were correct Spirit. At least according to Al Lutz today. He is reporting a 55/45 split at Disneyland now. You were even being conservative with your 60/40 split

 

[Alektronic]

So.... why can't WDW follow the Disneyland model and set up a separate maintenance team specifically for all the showmanship issues big and small that the best Disney rides are built with? That's the $64,000 Question!

In fact, they used to. At MK they had a animation repair team that just worked on 3rd Shift called the SWAT team and all they worked on was difficult animatronic problems. Each dept did the routine maintenance and checks and if they ran into a difficult or extensive fix which they didn't have time for, they turned it over to the SWAT team. And it worked out really well and they did a great job. But they phased that out, to of course, save some money.

 

[lazyboy97o]

According to Lutz today, Disneyland Resort is no longer 70% locals.

As you can see, in just the last few years the two Anaheim parks have finally broken free of the dreaded 70/30 split Disneyland worked with for decades. They are now closer to a 55/45 split with the attendance being made up of roughly 55% locals or annual passholders, and 45% domestic and international tourists

http://miceage.micechat.com/allutz/al110111a.htm

 

[Alektronic]

While Meg might not be the cause of the decline in quality, she also appears to be doing nothing to end it. She has had plenty of time to and opportunity to correctly some of the plauging issues during her tenure. And there are ways to change corporate behavior in your area without necessarily going against the tides of the larger corporate culture. Case and Point how Disneyland operates versus Walt Disney World. '74 is absolutely correct in that Meg do-nothing corporate big wig who has been in the right place at the right time, operated as a yes-man (or woman) when necessary, and hasn't ever stuck her neck out to make a noticable impact.

I'll get flack for saying this, but ANYONE of us on here can do what Meg has done during her tenure (keep things status quo, make cuts when necessary that decrease overhead and have seemingly little impact on the final show, and try not to think or do anything too outside of the box). And for that, she does deserve the bashing...she hasn't done enough and she really doesn't care one way or another about it.

So please....carry on with the Bashing Meg Initiative.

When a person is this high up in the company, basically it is all about money and budgets. So when she slashes the maintenance budget, that affects everyone downhill. So everyone with maintenance budget tries to save more money and cut costs. The easiest way to cut costs right away is with personnel. So with maintenance crews so thin nowadays it is hard to get rid of more people so the best way is to get rid of their responsibilities, so if just contract out everything to outside contractors then we will save money. Will it be a quality job? Who cares? as along as we save money.