Meg and Co. Head West ...

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
See above. WDW is getting the FLE and Avatarland. I spoke a couple years ago about how the pendulum swings back and fourth as to where capital is directed. If the DLR succeeds and continues to succeed you may see a new paradigm. One where both resorts continue to add content and steadily increase quality in a much more consistent manner. I think this possibility is well within TWDC's grasp thanks to Iger. And despite all the 'chicken littles' who fail to see the big picture.
You're right, I guess its OK that MK spent two decades with no major additions, DAK has been open for 13.5 years and has seen only really one major attendance-drawing addition in that time (it also opened with very little to do, whereas IOA opened as a full experience), DHS is over 2 decades old and is still a half-day park (arguable depending on how many mediocre shows you want to sit through), maintenance and upkeep of attractions continues to be neglected to the point where many rides are just downright embarrassing.... but nevermind all that, we have coming a LITTLE MERMAID omnimover (yaaay), a resturaunt, and a mine train dark ride, oh and Avatarland which won't come to fruition for like what, 5 or 6 years minimum? That makes it all OK.
And beyond those differences, I don't really think the statement is true anyway (my opinion of course). WWoHP is incredible, to be sure, but the rest of IoA is nothing spectacular. Universal builds great rides, but its track record at keeping effects working is no better than Disney's--and the Hulk coaster is downright painful now!

This is why I'm glad I got to WWoHP in its first year of operation, when everything is working. It'll be sad if they let it get run down (so many effects were broken on the Jurassic Park ride!)
Just went to IOA yesterday. Basically everything on Jurassic Park was working, and Hulk was incredibly smooth. Roller coasters that operate 365 days a year will be especially temperamental in the quality of the ride they give. Likewise, sometimes RnRc is glass smooth as well and other times its relatively rough. You could even ride two times in a row and get a very smooth or rough ride depending on the train you ride in and how recently it was serviced.

You're right, before Potter, IOA was in serious neglect, but post-Potter opening, everything has been in good condition and they are pretty responsive in fixing things that are broken. As a frequent visitor of all the Orlando parks and someone who can't help but notice when even the most mundane effects are broken, I can say with confidence that broken effects at Universal are fixed by the time of my next visit, but the same can not be said for the WDW parks, where visit after visit after visit, its "yep, still broken".

And just so nobody quotes me and complains, no, I don't go to the parks actively looking for things to complain about.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
You're right, I guess its OK that MK spent two decades with no major additions, DAK has been open for 13.5 years and has seen only really one major attendance-drawing addition in that time (it also opened with very little to do, whereas IOA opened as a full experience), DHS is over 2 decades old and is still a half-day park (arguable depending on how many mediocre shows you want to sit through), maintenance and upkeep of attractions continues to be neglected to the point where many rides are just downright embarrassing.... but nevermind all that, we have coming a LITTLE MERMAID omnimover (yaaay), a resturaunt, and a mine train dark ride, oh and Avatarland which won't come to fruition for like what, 5 or 6 years minimum? That makes it all OK.

It still amazes me that people single out issues that have their roots under the previous CEO. It is a very narrow way to analyze the situation. I realize Iger was a part of Disney but he had a limited ammount of power at that time.

And as I said before. I am not an Eisner basher. It just seems that he lost control amidst a run of very bad luck. He also did amazing things but that does not mean he did not leave the company with severe issues it had to solve.

It is obvious that Iger first had to stop the bleeding and then turn things around. Then add to that the terrible recession. Still though there is now light at the end of the tunnel. And his decisions will be be viewed positively in the future. It is one of the greatest recoveries in history when you consider the economy.

One more thing. I just went through a detailed explanation a few posts back of why Disney may have choosen to direct most of the domestic capital spending towards Disneyland since Iger took over. You either did not read that or you just choose to ignore the issues I raised. Instead you fall back to tired memes and talking points. If you can't deal with the points I make and refute them objectively (if you choose) then why respond as though I never wrote them?
 

ScoutN

OV 104
Premium Member
Hulk is a B&M Launch Coaster. B&M produce some of the best coaster products in today's day of age. The problem with Hulk is a different company designed the launch segment. The differences in the ride vehicles and their tolerance are completely different that the vast majority of B&M's vehicles. That is why it is so rough and why B&M has vowed to never build another launch coaster.
 

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
It still amazes me that people single out issues that have their roots under the previous CEO. It is a very narrow way to analyze the situation. I realize Iger was a part of Disney but he had a limited ammount of power at that time.

The issues were issues when Eisner was CEO and continue with Iger as CEO. Not much has changed, and in many respects issues pertaining to maintenance/upkeep/improvements have gotten worse in Iger's reign. Blame Eisner, blame Iger, it doesn't matter, they both have given WDW the short end of the stick, and the company will pay for it in the long run.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Hulk is a B&M Launch Coaster. B&M produce some of the best coaster products in today's day of age. The problem with Hulk is a different company designed the launch segment. The differences in the ride vehicles and their tolerance are completely different that the vast majority of B&M's vehicles. That is why it is so rough and why B&M has vowed to never build another launch coaster.

Universal also did not maintain it appropriately--earlier this year, when I rode, it was rusting in multiple sections, which contributes to roughness (and looked horrible in a park incapable of hiding roller coaster supports (something Disney is generally much better at). They finally painted it this year and it smoothed out a bit. Dragon Challenge on the other hand was nice and smooth (I'm guessing they repainted it when it was closed for the changeover to WWoHP.
 

ScoutN

OV 104
Premium Member
Universal also did not maintain it appropriately--earlier this year, when I rode, it was rusting in multiple sections, which contributes to roughness (and looked horrible in a park incapable of hiding roller coaster supports (something Disney is generally much better at). They finally painted it this year and it smoothed out a bit. Dragon Challenge on the other hand was nice and smooth (I'm guessing they repainted it when it was closed for the changeover to WWoHP.

The wheels also have an immense effect on ride quality. Busch Gardens changes their wheels annually. I would guess Disney keeps theirs up pretty good too being that they have Vekomas and they are not known for ride quality yet they are fairly smooth.

Hulk and Dragon Challenge both have the same manufacturer but Dragon Challenge is a coaster that is well within their normal realm. The only other B&M I have ever ridden with roughness is Alpengeist at BGW. The transfer to the block segment post Cobra Roll can catch you off guard but it is not killer like the majority of Hulk.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
The issues were issues when Eisner was CEO and continue with Iger as CEO. Not much has changed, and in many respects issues pertaining to maintenance/upkeep/improvements have gotten worse in Iger's reign. Blame Eisner, blame Iger, it doesn't matter, they both have given WDW the short end of the stick, and the company will pay for it in the long run.

Claiming these are the facts on the ground does not make it true. I have seen report after report that the Mk has not looked as good in many years. Perhaps you are confused by all the maintenance actions and construction walls.

It amazes me that people would rather try and advance spin despite the truth while throwing away all credibility in the process. Whatever works for ya.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Scripted or not the information he presented regarding the park demographics are clearly innacurate, and when you look at the numbers for the past 2 years (09 and 10) the trend has been leveling itself out and the argument that Disneyland is a locals park, and being the reason it is prone to seasonal overlays -vs- Disney World is a load of corporate BS...

I like Surrell, I have met him several times and have had some decent conversations with him (we share similar backgrounds and have some common friends in the film industry), however lets remember that he was most recently the creative lead on Stitches Supersonic Celebration, and given its short run in tomorrowland, is probably under a little pressure from above to pick it up.

Jason Surrell was in charge of the creative on Stich's Supersonic Celebration?

Stich's Supersonic Celebration Show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CM8yvgggvc

Ooooo-kay. :lookaroun

Somehow, after knowing that little factoid, I'm now even more confident that the 55/45 attendance split of 2011 is far more accurate than the ten year old numbers Mr. Surrell threw out to a room of Mansion fans recently. :lol:
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Universal also did not maintain it appropriately--earlier this year, when I rode, it was rusting in multiple sections, which contributes to roughness (and looked horrible in a park incapable of hiding roller coaster supports (something Disney is generally much better at).
Universal maintained it just as well as Busch maintains their B&Ms. The launch may contribute to faster wear and tear on the wheels, but Hulk is not always rough, just like Kumba is not always smooth. All of these coasters operate 365 days a year and do not have the luxury that seasonal parks do of only being open half a year, allowing 6 months for all the maintenance needed (including painting the track/rails)
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
did you go to the Peach Pit? :lol: what years were you living out there?

Yeah ... I was at the Pit with Dylan and Brenda and Co all the time.:ROFLOL:

I lived out west part time from 2000-2008.

And hope to again soon!:)

~GFC~
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Isn't it fascinating to think about?!? The executives from Disney California Adventure flew out to Orlando and spent the day hanging out at Potterland?!

I wonder if Meg Crofton & Co. from TDO have bothered to visit Universal?

I can tell you that any/every one of importance at Disney P&R has been. :king:

We never hear of Meg visiting the WDW parks much, if ever. I think that recent photo of her walking through DAK with the James Cameron entourage last month was the first picture ever I've seen of her in an actual WDW theme park, at least when it's not time to stand at a podium in front of the media and read from a magical script. :rolleyes:

She doesn't tend to visit unless there is specific reason for her to be there (like a media event, a private party, an opening etc).

But I don't think that is the way to judge whether someone is doing a good job as a P&R exec. I've said it many times but 'net/social media savy Georgie K is out and about because his predecessor -- 'Invisible Ed' Grier (the dude who pushed through much of all the great stuff happening in Anaheim that George gets/takes credit for) -- was never seen in the parks, let alone talking to fanbois and posing for pics and signing autographs :eek: (I wonder what some of my notes the man handsigned would fetch to fanbois!)

A shame that WDW doesn't have its own Al Lutz to give us the scoop on whether or not TDO execs have ever gone under cover at Islands of Adventure to see what all this Potter buzz is about.

I've said the same before ... so many times (at least I don't flip-flop like so many others) ... like on a certain Social Media thread on anotherdisneyplace or to the guys working on FixTheMagic etc that WDW/TDO benefits greatly from the lack of an Al Lutz type. And from the multiplying faster than Bucky The Bunny's family of Disney Lifestyle sites that proliferate the web where the point is to become 'sanctioned' or 'blessed' by the Celebration Place Gang with having your name/site placed on 'the list' ... instead of being critical, you have a fan community's sites largely touting how MAGICal things are.

Well, when IOA opens WWoHP and WDW has RFID chips in soda mugs and new timeshares and new character meet-greet-and-gropes, it kinda is disheartening when the webmasters/podcasters/bloggers have largely been paid for and want to talk about how amazing new villas are that they would NEVER actually stay at if they had to pay at even half off ... or about how great a new QUEUE is.

That's not what people pay $7,000 for vacations for. And it never will be. But I see another thread for that discussion!

~GFC~
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It struck me as surprising first, but if the DCA team wants to learn what things might be like in Cars Land when it first opens, where better to head than WWoHP?

I think saying they went there "for reference on how to run a successful operation" is misrepresenting what actually occurred or reducing it to its simplest terms.

Now if you're implying that it's a shame there can't be an area in Walt Disney World where they could glean that knowledge, I completely agree. That said, right now WWoHP is what is most closely analogous to what Cars Land will be when it opens, so why not visit WWoHP?

Actually, Disney execs and Imagineers have been visiting UNI and SW and other parks/destinations for as far back as I can recall, and their 'competitors' have been doing likewise.

It isn't a black and white, us vs. them deal like fanbois seem to think. The entertainment industry is full of people in bed with the competition.

That's why I laugh when I hear fans spout how UNI surely wants to get the Marvel characters out of IOA. Um ... no, they don't. And they don't care that it helps Disney because it helps them a whole lot more by having them to begin with!

~GFC~
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
There are clearly two different schools of thought between Anaheim and Orlando, one actually takes pride in there work and in the values that defined the brand, and the other just phones it in, takes a paycheck and does the bare minimum to maintain the status quo.

THIS.

Read it. Think about it. Soak it in. Let it wash over you like a wave of Duffy plush and vinylmation.

'Cause that is exactly the difference between the way Disney has run its Anaheim and Orlando operations.

~GFC~
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I don't think they are running a better operation. Universal is nowhere near the size and complexity of WDW, neither does it have anywhere near the amount of experiences that WDW offers.

Universal is like running a theme park.

WDW is like running a city.

No comparison really.

Oh, but you can absolutely compare how they run their theme parks or resorts or night time entertainment complexes (wait, scratch the last one).:drevil:

WDW's size can't simply be tossed out as a trite reason for it being better or as an excuse for parks allowed to grow stale or for additions to parks that don't push the bar higher.

WDW is like running a city because it was set up that way and given governmental powers. But that doesn't have anything to do with MiB being a million times better than Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin. Or Mummy looking like it opened yesterday while EE has its biggest effects inoperable for years. Or being able to walk into a full serve restaurant in one of UNI's parks without a reservation (let alone six months ahead of time!) and getting served a great meal at a fraction of the price Disney would charge.

If you want to discuss WDW's issues with transport ... or roads ... or spreading crowds out etc ... those are issues for another discussion.

I believe in making fair comparisons and when I am riding one of the MK's poorly maintained mountains, I am not thinking well this is OK because unlike UNI poor Disney has four parks and 30,000 hotel rooms/timeshares/campsites to fill.

~GFC~
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Actually, Disney execs and Imagineers have been visiting UNI and SW and other parks/destinations for as far back as I can recall, and their 'competitors' have been doing likewise.

It isn't a black and white, us vs. them deal like fanbois seem to think. The entertainment industry is full of people in bed with the competition.

That's why I laugh when I hear fans spout how UNI surely wants to get the Marvel characters out of IOA. Um ... no, they don't. And they don't care that it helps Disney because it helps them a whole lot more by having them to begin with!

~GFC~

People hear about all that competition is good crap the media feeds them.
 

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
I feel when George used to work at DLP, he brought some of that quality with him to California, let alone the quality he learned while working at WDW in the 70s.

For example kids, I went to DLP 2 days ago, and even on a weekday in the short and temporary "off season", only two facilities were closed: swiss family tree house and the events pavilion at the back of Fantasyland.

The fact that a ton of Christmas decorations are already up and the amount that's there right now would be the only Christmas decor the MK offers. It saddens me,when DLP and I believe DL offer far more seasonal decorations than the sparse offerings at the MK.

Hell, there was a CM cleaning the stained glass windows in the sleeping beauty walk through wearing a costume that made them fit the scene. They weren't wearing a white and aqua marine uniform in the middle of tomorrowland or frontierland.

WDW milks the magic because I swear on Mickey's soul, the average guest, who goes to WDW could care less about the details in the vacation. We folks on these boards are not the average guest. The average guest visits few times in their life, can't remember the names of any of the attractions, thinks you can take a monorail to Universal and wonders why Shamu isn't swimming in the seven seas lagoon.

WDW knows this and can take advantage this. Wishes has been performing pretty much as it was when it premiered in 2003. Reflections of Earth since 2001. Think of all the different entertainment that has been axed or greatly reduced over the years. Fireworks shows like Illuminations holiday that's been reduced to a holiday tag. The restaurant facilities that have been "permanently" closed, open seasonally, or host meet n greets.

Even with the Animal Kingdom existing, I swear WDW offered more things to see and do for people in 1998 than in 2011.

Prices go up and it seems less is offered at WDW. Yet the other Disney resorts maintain a level of upkeep and freshness that compliments the rise in prices.

Guess this is why I didn't renew my WDW AP:lookaroun
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I feel when George used to work at DLP, he brought some of that quality with him to California, let alone the quality he learned while working at WDW in the 70s.

For example kids, I went to DLP 2 days ago, and even on a weekday in the short and temporary "off season", only two facilities were closed: swiss family tree house and the events pavilion at the back of Fantasyland.

The fact that a ton of Christmas decorations are already up and the amount that's there right now would be the only Christmas decor the MK offers. It saddens me,when DLP and I believe DL offer far more seasonal decorations than the sparse offerings at the MK.

Hell, there was a CM cleaning the stained glass windows in the sleeping beauty walk through wearing a costume that made them fit the scene. They weren't wearing a white and aqua marine uniform in the middle of tomorrowland or frontierland.

WDW milks the magic because I swear on Mickey's soul, the average guest, who goes to WDW could care less about the details in the vacation. We folks on these boards are not the average guest. The average guest visits few times in their life, can't remember the names of any of the attractions, thinks you can take a monorail to Universal and wonders why Shamu isn't swimming in the seven seas lagoon.

WDW knows this and can take advantage this. Wishes has been performing pretty much as it was when it premiered in 2003. Reflections of Earth since 2001. Think of all the different entertainment that has been axed or greatly reduced over the years. Fireworks shows like Illuminations holiday that's been reduced to a holiday tag. The restaurant facilities that have been "permanently" closed, open seasonally, or host meet n greets.

Even with the Animal Kingdom existing, I swear WDW offered more things to see and do for people in 1998 than in 2011.

Prices go up and it seems less is offered at WDW. Yet the other Disney resorts maintain a level of upkeep and freshness that compliments the rise in prices.

Guess this is why I didn't renew my WDW AP:lookaroun


It seems that I am guessing that I feel that your feelings are based on emotion and not the evidence.

I am left to conclude that because you and a certain spirit and the rest of those who have similar feelings offer no substantial evidence to back up your claims. All you are ultimately left with is to blame the customers who don't "feel" the way you all "feel".

Feelings, nothing more than feelings. Trying to forget my........ Disney Entitlement Syndrome.


Sorry, when I am bored I break out in song. :snore:
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Oh, but you can absolutely compare how they run their theme parks or resorts or night time entertainment complexes (wait, scratch the last one).:drevil:

WDW's size can't simply be tossed out as a trite reason for it being better or as an excuse for parks allowed to grow stale or for additions to parks that don't push the bar higher.

WDW is like running a city because it was set up that way and given governmental powers. But that doesn't have anything to do with MiB being a million times better than Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin. Or Mummy looking like it opened yesterday while EE has its biggest effects inoperable for years. Or being able to walk into a full serve restaurant in one of UNI's parks without a reservation (let alone six months ahead of time!) and getting served a great meal at a fraction of the price Disney would charge.

If you want to discuss WDW's issues with transport ... or roads ... or spreading crowds out etc ... those are issues for another discussion.

I believe in making fair comparisons and when I am riding one of the MK's poorly maintained mountains, I am not thinking well this is OK because unlike UNI poor Disney has four parks and 30,000 hotel rooms/timeshares/campsites to fill.

~GFC~

It still amazes me that people single out issues that have their roots under the previous CEO. It is a very narrow way to analyze the situation. I realize Iger was a part of Disney but he had a limited ammount of power at that time.

And as I said before. I am not an Eisner basher. It just seems that he lost control amidst a run of very bad luck. He also did amazing things but that does not mean he did not leave the company with severe issues it had to solve.

It is obvious that Iger first had to stop the bleeding and then turn things around. Then add to that the terrible recession. Still though there is now light at the end of the tunnel. And his decisions will be be viewed positively in the future. It is one of the greatest recoveries in history when you consider the economy.
 

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
No evidence? The list is too long to talk about how many times I have overheard singles, couples, families get so many things wrong. Granted "Fast Track" vs Test Track is nothing compared to them not knowing where they are in the park, thinking rides from other parks are at the park they are at, yelling and moaning about how they can't find a place to eat, etc. This has been going on for years.

Luckily there are people, who do plan their trips ahead of time, or have a general sense of what they want to do. I've observed and listened in line too many loud conversations about people's "miserable" trips.

I enjoy most of my time at WDW, but I've observed a general decline since, say 10-15 years ago. Especially compared to Disneyland and Disneyland Paris

Wishes has performed nearly identical to when it premiered in 2003, the few exceptions for weather, or a special occasion such as the 40th perimeter fireworks.

On many occasions I've seen Wishes with missing pyro, even on evenings when the weather and wind was fine.

I swear to the offerings from years past based on the facts that you can pull up information from that era and see the amount of facilities that are either closed or seasonal or seasonal or axed entertainment, same for going through my own paperwork and souvenirs from year's past.

Have you ever been to any other Disney resort jt? :shrug:
 

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