Well sure, because Meg Crofton is in charge of this park as well. No wonder the maintenance has suffered. :brick:
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Meg and Co. Head West ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Well sure, because Meg Crofton is in charge of this park as well. No wonder the maintenance has suffered. :brick:
Crofton was put in charge of Paris in July 2011. Those photos were taken in April 2011.
Actually, disneyland.com only shows 6 weeks on the calendar, not several months. I can find no place that goes beyond that. We are going next May, and if an attraction is closed, well, so be it. I would much rather see a fully functioning, clean ride, than one that very obviously has problems, and looks like it hasn't seen a paint brush or vacuum in years! It will be our first trip, but not our last. The WDW website does provide more far reaching notifications of closures and rehabs.
I guess you understood my point. My point being that the GP today is lazy. Unless it is put right there in front of them with step by step directions then they do not do it. I look at the rehab schedule religiously before each and every trip and cross check it through multiple site. Even if it is listed on the attraction's official page most still will not know because it does not appear in an email. Sad stuff.
I cannot comment on the 70s as I was not even the fathom of a far off thought a that time :hammer:
For a country that seems (as a whole) to be so against social 'entitlements' that are needed for living (food, healthcare etc), so many seem to feel Disney attractions are a whole 'nother matter.
I wish I could agree with the "as a whole" statement but sadly I feel that is no longer the case in this country. See useless degrees in Wall Street.
I think Steve elaborated better where I was going with this. The once in a lifers or once every five-ten year visitors will know no difference in the grand scheme of it. They see the show, notice some items are not right and that is the end of that. As for you or I? We see the shows regularly, we research the shows and track their progress. We know good and well what is slacking and what is not having attention given where needed. The GP does not even when you can YouTube a video of the show and clear as day see differences.
I guess you are saying that some fans say certain things were cheaper years ago?
If that is what you are saying then my take is; Yes things were cheaper to maintain then but we pay more at this point and that should offset it. I am sure you have seen my posts that do not call attention to stuff as loudly as you do but do not think I do not notice it. My father first visited in 1974 and I in 1992 (two years old :lookaroun ) and he will point out items as well I even can. Things I noticed at ten years old versus twenty one at this point that have change.
I want it! And I want it now! Correct? Settling for mediocrity is clearly a problem with the average visitors. Sadly it is a problem with nearly every aspect of life nowadays. I feel that so long as it is a problem in everyday life then it will only continue to become worse as years go when it comes to a theme park. It is a business person's dream for people to expect less, right? That MUST change but it must change in a person's head in their everyday life before it can at Disney. How can that change? Beats me
I brought that up because as I said I am but twenty one years old. I am working on my Aerospace Engineering degree with a minor in Nuclear. I hope to end up at Kennedy or a contractor local to there. I recently purchased into DVC (CM family member!) and I look at the items in despair rather seriously. I put everything I see in the surveys they email me after each visit. I also submit an email with every item to the parks. But what product will I have to show my kids and grandkids from now until the time I am 71 (cross my fingers I make it until then). As DVC has grown rapidly and captures a younger audience as it is doing right now I hope that the lot of us can band together to make certain items known.
At the end of the day during my visits I am still relaxed. I ponder upon the items in need of TLC and attention. At the same time I still feel disconnected from real world. That is not because I am oblivious but because I still enjoy the product as a whole. As I am sure you still do but others do not realize that fact. If I ever lose that feeling then I can easily visit Hilton Head, Aulani, etc.
On a different park's note, I live about 30 minutes from Busch Gardens Williamsburg. Throughout the InBev buyout and the transition to Blackstone the park has remained immaculate. New rides are popping up now faster than ever before in the park's history. I hope that Disney can regain their pace that was once there in regards to attractions in maintenance. What will that take? Once again, beats me. That is why I read certain posters and view their submission from their POV.
I do not weigh in on the * vs DLR because I have never been there. I will not compare what I have not experienced first hand. I hope to in the next year however.
COProgressFan
Well-Known Member
It's sad that so many people are ok with Disney just being "good enough" when it used to be a wonderful, amazing place like no other....
It would be nice if Disney had an annual maintenance/rehab schedule (you know, like they do at all the other worldwide resorts), but they don't seem to (even internally). They constantly push rehabs off, delay them and you tend to get later announcements. I don't disagree with your point that by October many winter vacations have been planned (likely spring too!)
It would be nice to know sooner. But if it is that important to someone that BTMRRR be open, then I guess they'll have to change their plans (I can't even, personally, imagine changing plans because one attraction or even two or three 'faves' were going to be closed. I'm an adult and can accept that things aren't always open in theme parks.)
I think that's largely true and they aren't really conflicting. If you are going somewhere on a vacation, then you do have some responsibility to check on details that are important to you. And Disney can absolutely close anything at anytime (hence the disclaimer on the ticket). Now, if they decided 'today we're going to keep Adventureland closed the entire day' they'd likely be handing out freebies by the thousands but there is nothing that says they must.
And I do think they need to work on their advertising. They blatantly market themselves deceptively ... just wait for the annual WDW Christmas commercials that show 90% of things from DLR that are NOT available to you at WDW for your $7,000 MAGICal vacation.
~GFC~
The best one in this series for me is the WDW Annual Pass commercial that is airing in Florida about now, which shows nearly all DLR. This ad is being targeted at Florida locals, they are going to notice.
We've talked about this for years on the forums, and the general feeling is that the ads are produced by an outside party on the West Coast, who really have no idea of the difference. Not sure if it is true or not, but either way, not good.
What I'd like to point out is one simple undeniable fact.
And that is if Walt Disney gave guests what they wanted (or thought they did) or just said 'it's fine that way, 90% of my customers won't have a clue anyway' that the parks we all love would NOT EXIST.
It's really that simple.
I read something recently that referred to Disney as some kind of secular religion to many of its fans (to me that's nice language for cult). Those members should understand why Disney became the undisputed leader in the world in family themed entertainment destinations. And it absolutely is not because it said 'it doesn't matter because the majority of guests feel the show quality is fine'.
Of course, what's worse is when they do understand that things are wrong and still argue against them being fixed (see defending da man).
COProgressFan
Well-Known Member
Wow, great point! One major issue is not just that standards have been declining so much, but that pricing at WDW (food, resort rack rates, merch, tickets) have gone up DRAMATICALLY in the past several years. Disney was always expensive, but you always felt like you got a lot for your money. You paid a premium price and you got a premium product in return.
Now, somehow folks think its great to drop $85 a day to see broken effects, poor upkeep, a lack of new attractions/entertainment, poor food selection, etc., and just be perfectly fine with it! I really don't understand that mentality... What person in their right mind can argue for getting LESS for their money?!
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that's correct but it's very unfortunate. I understand having professionals complete your advertising visuals, but you would think, at some point, you'd have someone who's actually been to the parks in charge of quality control. It's one thing to show DL's Big Thunder on a WDW commercial--those are practically identical rides (in terms of overall experience--obviously the queues and exact track layouts differ) but it's another thing altogether to show the wrong castles in the videos--it's pretty easy to differentiate b/t Cinderella Castle and Sleeping Beauty Castle. Anyone who's been to both parks even once could do that. I wonder, does the West Coast also suffer from having commercials showing WDW?
Just to throw in a comment about attraction closures during guests visits. In many cases that I have observed, the guests do know ahead of time that the said attraction will be closed. They still book, go to the parks, and then complain like crazy when they are there that it is shut. They score low on the survey, and fill out guest relation forms. All of this despite the fact they know that an attraction will be closed before they even book their trip. This is the entitlement mode that we talk about so much around here. Even giving out information ahead of time does not help this situation. Disney live and breathe by survey scores, so this situation does not help leaders decide to close attractions for the refurbs they desperately need.
It isn't rosey everywhere, but I fail to see how some problems at DLP that are well-documented (and I have written about in my own observation threads post Parisian visits) are pertinent here.
I know you aren't saying that it's OK for WDW to decay in places because DLP has been allowed to.
And, FWIW, the ship is being rebuilt entirely (that's what two decades of letting something sit will do), the castle is almost finished a thorough rehab both inside and outside (although it looked great when I was there two years ago) and I can't really comment on Space Mountain (as I've often ripped it for its very rough ride).
Oh, and DLP, which has to deal with cold and wet (often snowy) French weather has been constantly rebuilding walkways and repaving.
DLP hasn't had issues in my experiences (and I've had multiple visits in the past six years) with SQS that WDW has. But they do have them ... a friend of mine is constantly reminding me of a time when the geysers actually worked in Frontierland ... not to mention the long gone fire and water effects at the entrance to Discoveryland.
Now ... I could point out how much of DLP's management team over the past decade has come from Florida, but instead I'll just say it isn't right there and shouldn't be used as justification for it here.
I'll also mention that Paris is the worst for these type of things outside Orlando. You don't have them in Anaheim or the Asian resorts.
~GFC~
I have the perfect example for this from my last trip just this October. I was at WDW with my sister, who had been to DL and DLP in the past. It was her second trip to WDW after a first trip in January 2010.
She was really looking forward to Splash Mountain since that was under refurbishment during our last trip and I had been telling her that it was my favourite ride in the MK. I did not tell her about all the maintenance issues and just hoped we would have a halfway decent experience.
I noticed a few issues, but the one thing I thought was really sad that it did not work was all the water jumping around in that last cavern before the big drop. A day later when we were in Epcot and admired the jumping fountains at the Illuminations Pavilion, I commented on the fact that I was missing the water effects on Splash Mountain and explained where they were supposed to be.
Her answer was: "Ah, this makes sense! I thought that this area was strangely boring..." And then she went on to say: "I can't believe that this isn't working, what did they do when they refurbished that ride in January 2010 when we were here last time?" Well, when I told her that Splash Mountain had since been down for refurbishment again in 2011 she was shocked and commented that this wasn't the Disney quality that she expected...
So, yes, people do notice that something is missing. Her Splash experience was not 100% and she was able to feel that without even knowing what was missing. Her trip in 2010 had not been ruined because Splash was closed, but she rightly expected that the refurbishment would be used to uphold a condition as perfect as possible, so that when she returned, things would work properly. Which, I think is a very reasonable expectation for a customer paying premium prices!
I think the danger is really that there will be a point when all those slightly diminished experience don't add up to a still great vacation anymore, but only to an average product. I get the feeling that at the moment Disney is living off its reputation. But once that gets damaged, the fall might be very fast and very hard.
But if this is the case, then it shows that those surveys don't make sense. If people come despite knowing that something is closed, then Disney is still earning money from these customers - and that's what in the end is in Disney's interest. I guess a lot of people give those bad surveys because they hope to receive something from Disney to make up for their disappointment...
My pointing out of problems at DLP was in reference to some earlier posts that everything is perfect outside of WDW. This is not the case. Some of the upkeep at DLP has been, and continues to be, horrendous. That boat is something that should NEVER been seen in a Disney park. Nothing at WDW approaches that. There are weeds growing in it. Yes it is now being rebuilt, but it was that way for years.
Again, my pointing out of this is not to excuse WDW for its problems, but to show some people who may not realize it, there are serious issues elsewhere. Far too many people jump on the bandwagon of "everything is wrong at WDW, everything is perfect everywhere else".
Nope. Absolutely no chance.
I have worked professionally where a critical eye is an absolute necessity. If anything, I actually look for things askew in the foreign resorts because folks constantly harp on me being so hard and 'hating' on WDW. I made sure when I was at TDR that I wasn't simply viewing it like a first-timer from New Jersey would view WDW. Guess what? The place isn't perfect. I saw some railings that needed painting. Once in a while something would fall on the ground (although it wouldn't be there for long!). And, yes, TDR even has some burned out lightbulbs.
But all of that can be excused because the overall quality of the product and all of the BIG things are so amazing. Imagine AAs that are silent and don't creak and squeak and you don't hear hydraulics etc (I know someone is going to come here and excuse this, much like some fanbois will talk about how they love the smell of MOLD at WDW!) Imagine attractions were every effect works. Really. Now, understand that things really used to be that way at WDW.
As for HKDL and DLP, I've now been to both resorts many times. I think I've hit every inch of HKDL! So, I can talk with authority on them as well.
And DLR ... well, from 2000-2008, I split my time between homes in California and Florida and was a dreaded 'local' in Anaheim, so I wasn't overlooking anything (especially when DL was decaying earlier in the decade!) and was an APer from 1998 on.
The OLC does many things very, very well. I can't imagine maintenance being an issue. Small food portions. The inability to buy Diet Coke (or any Diet soft drink). Restrooms that are too small and have lousy soap and no paper towels. Those may be issues for you .... But when you ride BTMRR or Splash Mountain, they'll look like they just opened yesterday ... and not like yesterday in Florida because as we know things have gotten so bad there that often things never open in show quality and are never fixed.
~GFC~
Well at WDW, each area is responsible for its survey scores. They see it like this - we tell people an attraction is going down for refurb 6 months in advance, they arrive, then give really poor surgery scores for that attraction being closed - EVEN THOUGH THEY KNEW IT WAS CLOSED. Yes Disney still made the money, BUT, that area then come under fire for its poor survey scores. Sometime it is a no win situation for managers.
The situation is just far more complex than people like to make out. If only it was as simple, but as always, large organizations with all manner of politics and systems can make what seems simple on the outside, to be very very complex.
I see what you say that this is how the system works and I understand what you say about large organisations. But if it is so, then WDW truly has a problem with how it is run. If you want to rely on surveys, you need to make sure that they really tell you what you need to know, not just some figures which make no sense with regard to your ultimate goal.
Well it does make sense in that it illustrates how some guests:
1. know that an attraction will be closed ahead of their visit
2. complain that it is closed once they are there, even though they knew ahead
3. score poor survey marks because of closures
This is how it is. It illustrates a big problem with the way today's guests are.