Meg and Co. Head West ...

[Pioneer Hall]

I don't feel Disney has ANY responsibility to guests regarding attraction/show/facility closures beyond placing them up on its website and making sure all CMs at its call centers have the info at their fingertips.

Beyond that, it is the guests' responsibility. If my trip will be ruined by BTMRR being closed in January then I better be smart enough to check and see when it is closing.

I can lay blame for a lot on Disney, but not this one.

I wonder what people did in the 70s ... I mean, I was a child, but recall visiting and not knowing what was closed until I got to the TTC and saw the info boards (think they are long gone and just at MK now, but could be mistaken) telling what attractions would be closed. Never once did we turn around and leave. Never once did I have a tantrum. Never once did my folks head to Guest Relations and demand a refund or free trip etc.

For a country that seems (as a whole) to be so against social 'entitlements' that are needed for living (food, healthcare etc), so many seem to feel Disney attractions are a whole 'nother matter.



Two points here:

1.) Far more folks care about quality whether you/I/TDO realize it or not. They may sit and enjoy Fantasmic in its current state, but I am not about to say all people are too stupid to realize that something is off when the dragon comes out and doesn't move ... or when Mickey doesn't appear where it is obvious he should be there. Just like many people notice when attractions are falling apart ... when parks or restrooms are dirty ... when CMs are nasty or distracted etc. Just because they don't post on fan sites doesn't mean they don't notice, they don't care or that it doesn't affect Disney's bottom line. Many do notice and feel things aren't right (or as advertised) and either don't return or tell others to go.

2.) It doesn't matter whether people see Splash Mountain (just using a common example) falling apart and love it anyway. It doesn't matter whether people (or how many really) even see all that is falling apart. What matters is Walt Disney began DL based on the fact that things weren't going to be like other amusement ventures. Getting everything right to near perfection was the goal. And giving guests what they had no idea they wanted was why DL succeeded and gave birth to WDW, which did likewise and so on.

I think what a lot of fans are advocating is throwing out the standards that made Disney what it was/is in favor of a lower quality offering that is still vastly more expensive than when Disney made sure things were done right. While I am sure that makes Disney Social Media's Department (AKA The Celebration Place Gang) happy, it isn't what made most of us Disney fans.

If the children and child-like mentality that everything must always be open is going to be the mantra of the fan community going forward, then the product is only going to continue to decline because the bottom-line management team will use it as an excuse to continue to let things fall apart.




Myself, and others, have postulated this same idea. DVCers and APers may not be largely local, BUT, BUT, BUT (and I just seem to need to drum this home) still maye visit 2-3-4 times a year. And spend significantly more than DLR 'locals' so it's unfathomable to me that those folks want to visit parks that are stale, have the same product year in and year out and have attractions in disrepair.

A lot of folks want to eat their pie and have their cookies to in this discussion. It can't be both ... it's either once in a lifers need everything open and the same all the time ... or it's DVCers/APers are spending way too much to get a subpar product (and, please before someone even goes there, don't try and say that because they spend so much they want low quality product versus regular freshening and rolling rehabs etc because that holds no water).

~Miami Dolphins Number One ... Miami Has the Dolphins, The Greatest Football Team ... They Take the Ball ... ~

I have to really agree here. Disney is working hard to build a base of repeat guests with DVC that will be visiting yearly or more. I think the problem is that the group just isn't as vocal yet, but hopefully that will change as they continue to expand. I echo your sentiments that attractions should be closed for maintenance as needed. Just because it might affect capacity or someone's good time, doesn't mean that maintenance should be passed over. It's the nature of the beast when you are running a year round product such as this and can't pull a Six Flags and close for 4 or 5 months to perform the work. Perhaps I understand it a little more for the overlays, since a majority of the people coming are tourists who are perfectly content with the usual Haunted Mansion or Small World...but with maintenance it's a different story. We as fans should understand that it is the type of business Disney has to run, and in the name of good show we should be able to accept it. One attraction should not make or break an otherwise great visit to WDW.

 

[WDW1974]

But when did that become the status quo? When did Disney decide it was an acceptable excuse to cut labor and maintenance because only 100 out of 6000 guests actually cared about show quality?

Started in the mid-90s when outside MBAs and consultants were brought in and paid ridiculous sums to break a product that wasn't broken (see New Coke) ... it really sped up post 9/11, which was used as a great excuse to continue a process that had been in motion for years.

Wasn't Disneyland founded on the premise that it would be better than other parks? It would be cleaner, more well-kept, and friendlier?

Anaheim gets it. Tokyo gets it. I've never been but I'm under the impression that Paris and Hong Kong get it.

Why can't Orlando get back with the program like everyone else?

Let's see: yes ... yes, yes and yes. (oh and DLP and HKDL do get it, although Paris has had some issues -- but also some lousy management from Jay Rasulo to Karl Holz to Philippe Gas)

As to your final question, the only answers I can offer is 'they don't care to' and 'it costs too much' and 'they've conditioned a great many guests and fans to spend more and get less'.

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

I don't think you are comparing like for like. Adding Holiday pyro, or the castle dream lights does not take away from the signature experiences. Closing the Mansion for a month, then completely changing the story, is a whole different scenario. There are certain attractions that people want to see, things like the Haunted Mansion are one of them.

Sorry, Steve. I gotta fight ya tooth and nail on this one. :brick::ROFLOL:

If I am on my once in a lifetime trip to the MK, then I expect to see Wishes. Maybe I don't celebrate Christmas. ... or what do I do when I am expecting it but Disney has decided to close at 7 the only two nights of my once in a lifetime trip for MNSSHP and I never get to see ANY kind of Wishes (unless I read on some MAGICal Disney forum that I can go visit the Poly, park my butt on the beach with a Dole Whip and see Hallowishes for FREE!)

Wishes IS the signature MK show. Changing it out for Christmas can be argued ruins a trip for those who want the singing moppets. Covering the castle with cheesy lights certainly means I'll have to hit Tom Bricker up for some pics because my own MAGICal photos will be ruined.

I know you're not a fan of Mansion Holiday, but I view it no differently than the above. Disney doesn't guarantee anyone that any attraction will be open for their visit. No theme park does.

FWIW, I took what thus far was a 'once in a lifetime' trip to TDR last year. I had to 'endure' overlays to Mansion, Small World and CBJ ... as well as to the TDL EP Dreamlights ... oh, and see Christmas pyro show ... and had a great time. Didn't demand my money back or talk about how I'd been waiting to visit since 1983!

I think WDW visitors need to ... um ... ah ... butch up a bit and not be so whiney when something they like is closed.

On the 70-30 argument. Do the specific numbers really matter? We know that publicly Disney say 70-30. It may be 65 - 45, or maybe 80 20. Still, DLR has a much higher local visitor base than WDW does. Simple as that.

I agree. I'm just trying to use the best numbers available. DLR absolutely has a higher local base than WDW, but I think that isn't the important point here.

You can add as many NOTs as you want, but a lot of people, myself included, consider DLR to be primarily a locals park. Disney also see it this way. Just because you say it is not, does not make it not.

You are beating a dead horse in a lot of what you are saying. A lot of people agree with you that they want to see new parades, new shows, more maintenance, and more refurbishments.

Well, I will say it because it isn't correct. A local/regional park would be akin to Six Flags in Atlanta or ... you name the city in the USA/UK/Canada etc. Those parks exist as local attractions.

DLR most definitely does not and it is disingenous to place that label on it. tell all the folks from Australia, South Korea, Japan, Canada, Texas, Utah, Colorado etc who are enjoying a DLR vacation that it is a locals park.

You want to say DLR attracts more locals than WDW does, then that's a 100% fair and accurate statement of fact. But saying it's a locals park is an entirely different thing (maybe just subtle to some, but it's not). DLR is a world-class destination and has been since 1955. When on just an average day 4-of-10 visitors will be from beyond SoCal, you simply can't call it that.

Oh, and Disney doesn't see it as a locals park either. They see it much the way I described and much the way they view their other non-FLA parks as far as attracting more locals and being in larger more populated world-class, cosmopolitan cities ... versus WDW ... which is in O-Town ... strip mall and fast food and outlet mall and timeshare capital of the world.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse (what would be the point? I'd rather beat a live fanboi!:goodnevil:ROFLOL:) ... it's just there are many people on this forum who have never visited DL or maybe went once and don't really understand it. As to people wanting to see new stuff and rehabs and the like, I hope that's true, but I worry. I can already hear stuff like 'well, I'd like to see a new parade at one of the parks (they all need them!), but hey we're getting Avatarland in 5-6 years, so you can't be greedy' ... or 'hey, I don't care about Fantasmic because I only go for the rides and Ariel is opening next year at the MK and then the mine train coaster too. Woo HOO it is a great time to be a WDW lover!' ... that's the kind of stuff that gives me nightmares!:hammer::brick::fork:

~GFC~

 

[ToTBellHop]

I don't feel Disney has ANY responsibility to guests regarding attraction/show/facility closures beyond placing them up on its website and making sure all CMs at its call centers have the info at their fingertips.

Beyond that, it is the guests' responsibility. If my trip will be ruined by BTMRR being closed in January then I better be smart enough to check and see when it is closing.

I can lay blame for a lot on Disney, but not this one.

This is something I don't quite agree with. Disney announced the BTMRR refurbishment in October. Very few planning January vacations are waiting until October to do so (Free Dining for January was announced way back in July). Even those of us who are members on boards like this who hear of rumors ahead of time would have been mistaken--back when I booked my January vacation, I was under the impression that Test Track would certainly be closed, Splash Mountain would be closed as it always is in January, and BTMRR might close although most agreed Disney would be hesitant to close Splash and Big Thunder at the same time. Popular consensus was also that there would never be a time when Dumbo was closed (that they would open the new one the same time as the current one closes). Turns out, in fact, Splash and Test Track will be open when I go, Big Thunder and Dumbo closed (which I am perfectly okay with--Big Thunder needs it and I am sure there is some construction-related reason why Dumbo needs to close at this point in the FLE constuction--the point is that I am a planner, did as much planning as possible, and still had to book a vacation blindly).

I tend to get two conflicting comments on these boards:

1) It is the job of the guest to do his due diligence in determining which attractions will be closed during a future visit (even though Disney typically announces refurbishment <3 months in advance).
2) Even if you follow the announced schedule, Disney has the right to cancel and close any attraction or show as they see fit, because of what is written on the back of the park ticket. You should also be happy to pay $85/day regardless of whether something Disney markets is not occurring--e.g. Disney markets Sorcerer Mickey shooting fireworks in the Fantasmic! finale and they market a moving Yeti on Everest in their promotional materials, and yet I should apparently plan on seeing neither and be happy about it, since complaining is frowned upon around here.

So there is no way to really know when/if something will close, so I should put on my rose colored glasses and just be happy that I get to see palm trees and not have to work for a week. At least my favorite ride is the Tower of Terror, which never has to completely close...and my wife's favorite ride is Splash, so I guess we are in luck this year (if you can call Splash limping along without a refurbishment "lucky").

 

[asianway]

Back when I was just a wee lad in the age before message boards, Internet, or even Birnbaum - it was obvious that the trade off was either heavy crowds with minimal refurbs going on(Easter, summer, Christmas) or light crowds but knowing some things would be closed. Forget for a moment whenever it became socially acceptable to take your kids out of school to take advantage of the off season...

In fact, in annual trips for 30 years, all in what would be called high season-I don't ever recall an attraction being down for refurb unless it was something like MTM changing out for AE or an attraction going down "seasonal" death row.

Why in this Internet age shouldn't someone do some due diligence before shelling out seven large? Especially when it's common sense.

The problem is a management team that is smart enough to know they have a compensation plan that doesn't truly require them to be the stewards of the Parks as Tom Staggs stated in his D23 speech and has decided to do the bare minimum to maximize that compensation and not get fired.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

You should also be happy to pay $85/day regardless of whether something Disney markets is not occurring--e.g. Disney markets Sorcerer Mickey shooting fireworks in the Fantasmic! finale and they market a moving Yeti on Everest in their promotional materials, and yet I should apparently plan on seeing neither and be happy about it, since complaining is frowned upon around here.

Marketing a key show element of an attraction and having that element be absent during your experience and having the ENTIRE attraction closed so that you cannot experience it at all are two different things.

Disney at least gives guests SOME warning that attractions will be closed during your visit. They do not, nor do they have any obligation to post what show elements are not functioning during your stay, however, if they are marketing it as a key part of that attraction, and it is not functioning and they still proceed to allow guests to experience it, then Disney is in the wrong.

If they can not have it so that key show elements work at least 90% of the time, then they need to completely shut down the attraction (at the last minute if necessary) and fix it until they can guarantee at least 90% reliability.

 

[wdwfan22]

Marketing a key show element of an attraction and having that element be absent during your experience and having the ENTIRE attraction closed so that you cannot experience it at all are two different things.

Disney at least gives guests SOME warning that attractions will be closed during your visit. They do not, nor do they have any obligation to post what show elements are not functioning during your stay, however, if they are marketing it as a key part of that attraction, and it is not functioning and they still proceed to allow guests to experience it, then Disney is in the wrong.

If they can not have it so that key show elements work at least 90% of the time, then they need to completely shut down the attraction (at the last minute if necessary) and fix it until they can guarantee at least 90% reliability.

I agree with you. 90% of the time though the key show elements are working for most of the attractions. I don't believe guests are to concerened with everything working 100% of the time. Until Guest start complaining and stop visiting because they feel the show quality has slipped nothing is going to change. I also believe that will not happen because the majority of guests feel that show quality is fine.

 

[HMF]

UGH!!!!

Why this? Again?!?!

DL definitely attracts more locals (look at the population base of SoCal vs. Central Florida), but it is NOT, NOT, NOT a locals park.

Tell that to people who travel from Japan or Italy or Mexico or Hawaii or Michigan or Texas or NY ... or even FLORIDA!!!

And guests in Anaheim would like everything open when they are there too. It's human nature.

People need to grow up. This idea that everything must be open in O-Town is arrested development (and not the great TV show, either) on the part of folks who need to plan around things.

These are the same folks who will justify making a lunch reservation for

You know as they say tell a lie so many times and they will start believing it. TDO has been using the "Locals vs. International" to justify this BS for so long is it really any wonder that people start believing it. When I went to DLR back in 2006 My family and I rode Grizzly River Run with a family from Japan, I repeat Japan where they could easily visit TDR. You know the "locals" that DLR supposedly panders to. Not so.

 

[HMF]

I don't think you are comparing like for like. Adding Holiday pyro, or the castle dream lights does not take away from the signature experiences. Closing the Mansion for a month, then completely changing the story, is a whole different scenario.

The Mansion has no story.

 

[asianway]

You know as they say tell a lie so many times and they will start believing it. TDO has been using the "Locals vs. International" to justify this BS for so long is it really any wonder that people start believing it. When I went to DLR back in 2006 My family and I rode Grizzly River Run with a family from Japan, I repeat Japan where they could easily visit TDR. You know the "locals" that DLR supposedly panders to. Not so.

The story of WDWs decline will make a fine movie someday-anyone have Oliver Stone's number?

 

[Tom Morrow]

Many of the things we consider bad show in the attractions don't even need a lengthy closure and refurbishment to fix. TDO can use the excuse of "we can't fix these things because we hate having attractions closed" all they want, but if the maintenance department actually did more than the bare minimum, especially third shift, then perhaps the broken show elements wouldn't add up to where a refurbishment seems necessary.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

if the maintenance department actually did more than the bare minimum, especially third shift, then perhaps the broken show elements wouldn't add up to where a refurbishment seems necessary.

While this may be true, I think third shift tries to get as much done as they can, but WDW puts unrealistic expectations on them to get all of their work done in limited time spans. When the park closes at 12 am the earliest they can start working is 12:45, add an additional hour for every hour after 12 the park is open. So on EMH nights (and in the summer there's always two of those) when the park closes at 3, the earliest they can start is 3:45.

I've also heard that WDW only has two maintenance teams: 1 for electrical and 1 for mechanical, whereas DLR has three: electrical, maintenance, and show figures. The latter would fall under mechanical for WDW and therefore they have an increased workload with less time to do it. Plus, since safety trumps everything else, if it takes their entire shift to get the mechanical work done, they have no time to work on show elements.

 

[wdwmagic]

But when did that become the status quo? When did Disney decide it was an acceptable excuse to cut labor and maintenance because only 100 out of 6000 guests actually cared about show quality?

Sure, Disney may have seen that they were still generating revenue despite having to lower operating expenses in the post 9/11 tourism slump and that in turn gave them credence to the idea that they could generate even more profits by keeping those same operating expenses even post-slump.

Wasn't Disneyland founded on the premise that it would be better than other parks? It would be cleaner, more well-kept, and friendlier?

Anaheim gets it. Tokyo gets it. I've never been but I'm under the impression that Paris and Hong Kong get it.

Why can't Orlando get back with the program like everyone else?

Despite what some like to believe it isn't all rosey elsewhere. See this horror story from Disneyland Paris
http://www.parkeology.com/2011/04/fading-star.html

 

[ToTBellHop]

Despite what some like to believe it isn't all rosey elsewhere. See this horror story from Disneyland Paris
http://www.parkeology.com/2011/04/fading-star.html

That's very sad to see. Is the Big Thunder accident here the same derailment Screamscape reported today?

 

[RSoxNo1]

I don't feel Disney has ANY responsibility to guests regarding attraction/show/facility closures beyond placing them up on its website and making sure all CMs at its call centers have the info at their fingertips.

Beyond that, it is the guests' responsibility. If my trip will be ruined by BTMRR being closed in January then I better be smart enough to check and see when it is closing.

I can lay blame for a lot on Disney, but not this one.

I agree.

Two points here:

1.) Far more folks care about quality whether you/I/TDO realize it or not. They may sit and enjoy Fantasmic in its current state, but I am not about to say all people are too stupid to realize that something is off when the dragon comes out and doesn't move ... or when Mickey doesn't appear where it is obvious he should be there. Just like many people notice when attractions are falling apart ... when parks or restrooms are dirty ... when CMs are nasty or distracted etc. Just because they don't post on fan sites doesn't mean they don't notice, they don't care or that it doesn't affect Disney's bottom line. Many do notice and feel things aren't right (or as advertised) and either don't return or tell others to go.

2.) It doesn't matter whether people see Splash Mountain (just using a common example) falling apart and love it anyway. It doesn't matter whether people (or how many really) even see all that is falling apart. What matters is Walt Disney began DL based on the fact that things weren't going to be like other amusement ventures. Getting everything right to near perfection was the goal. And giving guests what they had no idea they wanted was why DL succeeded and gave birth to WDW, which did likewise and so on.

I think what a lot of fans are advocating is throwing out the standards that made Disney what it was/is in favor of a lower quality offering that is still vastly more expensive than when Disney made sure things were done right. While I am sure that makes Disney Social Media's Department (AKA The Celebration Place Gang) happy, it isn't what made most of us Disney fans.

If the children and child-like mentality that everything must always be open is going to be the mantra of the fan community going forward, then the product is only going to continue to decline because the bottom-line management team will use it as an excuse to continue to let things fall apart.

I agree with you. 90% of the time though the key show elements are working for most of the attractions. I don't believe guests are to concerened with everything working 100% of the time. Until Guest start complaining and stop visiting because they feel the show quality has slipped nothing is going to change. I also believe that will not happen because the majority of guests feel that show quality is fine.

I really think much of the satisfaction comes from ignorance. Either people that have never been to the parks, or have vague recollections of the previous visits. Fantasmic is a relatively confusing show when viewed for the first time. The storyline is somewhat convoluted because it's jumping around in a dream. I imagine that many people that view the show enjoy it because of the visuals as opposed to the story. Having said that, many people assume that nothing malfunctions in a Disney attraction and if they aren't familiar with the show don't know any better.

The same can hold true for any of the effects. If people don't know what they're missing, they don't miss it:

• They go by the Yeti in Expedition Everest and assume that it never moved
• They go through the Earthquake scene on Big Thunder, and people don't know that the rocks are supposed to move (the tarp was probably a giveaway to most people)
• They go by the hedge in Splash Mountain and don't see Brer Rabbit at all, nor do they expect to.

While many guests don't know if an effect is missing, it doesn't mean they wouldn't appreciate it if it was there. A guest ignorant of the full effects of Expedition Everest might right through it with Disco Yeti, 1 of 2 waterfalls working and no bird on a stick and be 90% satisfied. However, that same guest could ride a second time with a functional Yeti, both waterfalls working and the bird working and be 100% satisfied. Then, the next time they ride it's back to the same show they experienced the first time around. However now they're aware of what the show could be and their satisfaction is down to 80%.

Myself, and others, have postulated this same idea. DVCers and APers may not be largely local, BUT, BUT, BUT (and I just seem to need to drum this home) still maye visit 2-3-4 times a year. And spend significantly more than DLR 'locals' so it's unfathomable to me that those folks want to visit parks that are stale, have the same product year in and year out and have attractions in disrepair.

A lot of folks want to eat their pie and have their cookies to in this discussion. It can't be both ... it's either once in a lifers need everything open and the same all the time ... or it's DVCers/APers are spending way too much to get a subpar product (and, please before someone even goes there, don't try and say that because they spend so much they want low quality product versus regular freshening and rolling rehabs etc because that holds no water).

For those people that visit multiple times per year, I would guess that many of them have relatively set routines that may have been consciously or unconsciously changed as a function of this decline in quality.

I'll use myself as an example

• Unless others wanted to experience them I wouldn't go on Peter Pan's Flight or the original Star Tours as I view/viewed them as dated.
• My family enjoyed Sci-Fi Dine-In but I ultimately got sick of the food. Along the same vein, my family preferred to eat at quick service locations but I got sick of theme park burgers. When traveling with them I take care of the dining reservations now and will do whatever I can to avoid a quick service burger.

~Miami Dolphins Number One ... Miami Has the Dolphins, The Greatest Football Team ... They Take the Ball ... ~

I hope this is sarcasm.

No disagreement there. Just a fundamental disagreement with that approach. Look, I've said it here (and some jealous haters enjoy taking a shot at me for mentioning it), but in the past two years I've visited EVERY Disney resort on the planet with multiple visits to WDW, DL and HKDL. None of the resorts have the show quality issues WDW has. None of the resorts have the stale vibe in their entertainment offerings. None of them have the feeling of being left to fall apart that WDW has.

To me, that's more than enough of an indictment of the people running the resort. TDO needs a massive enema.

Do you think there's an element of this that comes from your familiarity with WDW compared to the overseas resorts. I'm not saying that WDW doesn't have significant maintenance issues, but do you think it's possible that you overlooked maintenance issues in those parks that you are less familiar with?

In the end, they only care about the bottom line and reaching certain objectives. That's constantly at conflict with the PR Disney spins, its Legacy and the beliefs of the company's founders and his amazing team that built the foundation of an amazing MAGIC factory that these very temporary managers/execs are willing to blow up.

I don't for a second agree with you that folks that pay $7,000 for a vacation would rather lower quality across the board versus having a few things possibly closed on their visits. But I don't wish to go round and round on that point.

~GFC~

I plan on going to Tokyo in a few years. I have never spent $7000 on a Disney vacation, but I expect that a trip to Japan will approach that. I will absolutely be checking maintenance schedules becuase I know Japan constantly does maintenance on their attractions. I will do whatever I can to make sure that if something is down for maintenance it's something that I can live without seeing.

This is something I don't quite agree with. Disney announced the BTMRR refurbishment in October. Very few planning January vacations are waiting until October to do so (Free Dining for January was announced way back in July). Even those of us who are members on boards like this who hear of rumors ahead of time would have been mistaken--back when I booked my January vacation, I was under the impression that Test Track would certainly be closed, Splash Mountain would be closed as it always is in January, and BTMRR might close although most agreed Disney would be hesitant to close Splash and Big Thunder at the same time. Popular consensus was also that there would never be a time when Dumbo was closed (that they would open the new one the same time as the current one closes). Turns out, in fact, Splash and Test Track will be open when I go, Big Thunder and Dumbo closed (which I am perfectly okay with--Big Thunder needs it and I am sure there is some construction-related reason why Dumbo needs to close at this point in the FLE constuction--the point is that I am a planner, did as much planning as possible, and still had to book a vacation blindly).

I tend to get two conflicting comments on these boards:

1) It is the job of the guest to do his due diligence in determining which attractions will be closed during a future visit (even though Disney typically announces refurbishment <3 months in advance).
2) Even if you follow the announced schedule, Disney has the right to cancel and close any attraction or show as they see fit, because of what is written on the back of the park ticket. You should also be happy to pay $85/day regardless of whether something Disney markets is not occurring--e.g. Disney markets Sorcerer Mickey shooting fireworks in the Fantasmic! finale and they market a moving Yeti on Everest in their promotional materials, and yet I should apparently plan on seeing neither and be happy about it, since complaining is frowned upon around here.

So there is no way to really know when/if something will close, so I should put on my rose colored glasses and just be happy that I get to see palm trees and not have to work for a week. At least my favorite ride is the Tower of Terror, which never has to completely close...and my wife's favorite ride is Splash, so I guess we are in luck this year (if you can call Splash limping along without a refurbishment "lucky").

I think people are booking their vacations closer to your departure date than you think. Sure, there are still many people booking their macations 6+ months in advance as evident by the lack of dining availability, but there are plenty of late bookings as well.

My request would be that if Disney is aware of any refurbishment over 5 days that they should make that information available. This can be done at the time of booking or on the online schedule. They have gotten better about this, but frankly internet forums a better source for this type of information than DisneyWorld.com. Disney realized this with the Disney Parks Blog and were able to control many noteworthy news stories before or in concert with the unofficial sites. They need to expand this approach with maintenance as well.

 

[menamechris]

The Mansion has no story.

Huh? It absolutely does.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Huh? It absolutely does.

Correction. It has no official story. Everything you see on the internet claiming to be the backstory of Haunted Mansion is nothing more than random BS concocted by overzealous Haunted Mansion CMs and fanbois who want to give importance and meaning to elements of the attraction where there is none.

 

[jakeman]

Despite what some like to believe it isn't all rosey elsewhere. See this horror story from Disneyland Paris
http://www.parkeology.com/2011/04/fading-star.html

But...but....Steve!

We've been told by '74 who constantly reminds us that he has been to every Disney park in the past two years that other parks don't have the same issues as WDW.

I'm sorry, but that blog's camera must be mistaken.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

But...but....Steve!

We've been told by '74 who constantly reminds us that he has been to every Disney park in the past two years that other parks don't have the same issues as WDW.

I'm sorry, but that blog's camera must be mistaken.

I can't speak for Paris, but if you look in the comments section, you'll see even THAT blog writer thinks Tokyo is leaps and bounds ahead of any other Disney park, although that's pretty much common knowledge.

They're the only parks I've been to outside of the US and if I was only able to choose one in my lifetime, I'm glad it was Tokyo because it just made me see even clearer how bad things have gotten elsewhere.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Started in the mid-90s when outside MBAs and consultants were brought in and paid ridiculous sums to break a product that wasn't broken (see New Coke) ... it really sped up post 9/11, which was used as a great excuse to continue a process that had been in motion for years.

Let's see: yes ... yes, yes and yes. (oh and DLP and HKDL do get it, although Paris has had some issues -- but also some lousy management from Jay Rasulo to Karl Holz to Philippe Gas)

As to your final question, the only answers I can offer is 'they don't care to' and 'it costs too much' and 'they've conditioned a great many guests and fans to spend more and get less'.

~GFC~

Okay, so I guess I am really confused. Tom Staggs is obviously not an unintelligent person, and no doubt Disney has people that do nothing but monitor the on-line forums, so he MUST know of the bad show at WDW, so how can he, in good consience, not FIRE the one person that seems to be damaging the Disney brand and excellence (Meg Crofton), more than any other single person?!?!?!?! What the heck is he thinking? She is an HR person, and doesn't seem to know anything about what a quality Disney show is.

I think one simple way to generate more funds for maintenace is to look at Apple. They just released their latest quarterly results, and said NO stockholder dividend now, or anytime soon in the future, since we are putting the money back into the company. Seems like Disney could do this as well, letting the shareholders know that SHOW is more important than money.

I have been going to WDW since 1978, and the parks have never looked worse than in the last 10 years. We will be finally making our first DL trip next May. :sohappy: We will eventually see them all. Oh, and we are DVC members that are in the vocal minority it seems. Every trip, we fill out surveys about how the regular maintenance doesn't seem to happen. Light bulbs burned out for a week, paint chipped everywhere, AAs not working, etc. We put it all into the comments, so we hope that someday, our home resort will get the attention it so much deserves!