Meg and Co. Head West ...

[BigThunderMatt]

We can complain, moan all we want, it isn't going to change when our view is not that of the masses.

But when did that become the status quo? When did Disney decide it was an acceptable excuse to cut labor and maintenance because only 100 out of 6000 guests actually cared about show quality?

Sure, Disney may have seen that they were still generating revenue despite having to lower operating expenses in the post 9/11 tourism slump and that in turn gave them credence to the idea that they could generate even more profits by keeping those same operating expenses even post-slump.

Wasn't Disneyland founded on the premise that it would be better than other parks? It would be cleaner, more well-kept, and friendlier?

Anaheim gets it. Tokyo gets it. I've never been but I'm under the impression that Paris and Hong Kong get it.

Why can't Orlando get back with the program like everyone else?

 

[WDWFigment]

Despite why you, me, and others may think is the best way of operating, WDW management have determined that the way they want to run WDW is with as many attractions open at all times as possible. As has been said many times before, this is a distinct difference to how Disneyland operates, due to its mainly local guest base. I think if you were to survey the 6000 guests who saw Fantasmic the other night with no dragon, and no sorcerer Mickey, 5900 of them would have said they would rather see it operate like that than not at all.

Now before you say I'm making excuses, I reiterate, this is Disney's decision on how they run things. I'm not saying I think it is right, I would rather them close it and have everything running 100%. Unfortunately the vast majority, which is what Disney caters to, do not share this view. These guests have just spent an average of $7000 on their bi-annual Disney vacation (which is now the average spend, frequency), and they expect Fant to run, they expect Everest to run, and at the end of the day when they measure the enjoyment of their trip, those outages don't make an impact. We can complain, moan all we want, it isn't going to change when our view is not that of the masses.

Steve, just to clarify, are you saying:

1) the average family vacations to Disney once every-other year? AND/OR
2) the average cost of that vacation is $7,000

Both of those numbers (price and frequency) seem high. I would have NEVER guessed that $7,000 number. I knew it was high, but $7,000?! Even for a family of 4, that's really, really high.

Just curious--not attacking your numbers, as I really have no clue.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Steve, just to clarify, are you saying:

1) the average family vacations to Disney once every-other year? AND/OR
2) the average cost of that vacation is $7,000

Both of those numbers (price and frequency) seem high. I would have NEVER guessed that $7,000 number. I knew it was high, but $7,000?! Even for a family of 4, that's really, really high.

Just curious--not attacking your numbers, as I really have no clue.

Frequency I believe. Every 2 years is actually fairly standard when you ask guests when their last visit was.

I agree that $7,000 seems a bit pricey though. That can vary a lot due to trip length, resort tier (assuming they even stay on property), travel costs, food, etc. The same family of four that visits every 2 years and spends that much (which would be a fairly extravagant trip) over a week can be challenged by another family of four who stays for that same length of time and only spends $3,500.

 

[wdwmagic]

Steve, just to clarify, are you saying:

1) the average family vacations to Disney once every-other year? AND/OR
2) the average cost of that vacation is $7,000

Both of those numbers (price and frequency) seem high. I would have NEVER guessed that $7,000 number. I knew it was high, but $7,000?! Even for a family of 4, that's really, really high.

Just curious--not attacking your numbers, as I really have no clue.

Yes the internal average figures are every other year and $7000. The $7000 shocks me, but when you put it all together, you soon get there. This includes, flights, hotel, food, merch spend.

 

[WDW1974]

You can hear it from Jason Surrell, Walt Disney Imagineering. Take note that this is not someone who is in operations, but someone in creative who obviously does not sugar coat operational issues. DLR is 70% locals, 30% outside. WDW is directly the opposite.

Here it is from the man himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZCNYdHZpPH4#t=737s

I've met Jason. I like Jason. I respect Jason.

But he's a bit off here. He's off just on the basis of his math as 30% plus 75% doesn't equal 100% ... But the numbers he uses are based on standard numbers that TDO/TWDC have allowed Imagineers to use in public (like at this social media gathering) as the generic answer for why Disney won't install Mansion Holiday or other such makeovers.

No one ever thinks of the logic. They can have a Christmas Parade and lights on the castle and holiday pyro and decorations etc, after all ... and not ruin any 'once in a lifetime' vacations ... which again logic states that if you're only getting them once in a lifetime you might as well give them the absolute worst product and not care if half a park is closed because even if you have a perfect one, it is a once in a lifetime trip,right?

I know, not exactly what we're talking about, but it all plays into why WDW allows its parks to grow stale and decay and why so many in the Internet/Social Media/Disney Lifestyle age play into it by spouting these talking points like facts.

Again, DL is NOT, NOT, NOT a locals park and saying it doesn't make it so. All it means is that on a average day, you're likely to have a 60/40 type mix of locals and folks from all over the world.

Those people like their attractions open as well. Some of them are once in a lifetime guests.

Indeed, with Disney's Best Kept Secret taking over WDW, the excuse and talking point becomes more ludicrous by the year.

People that bought in in 2001 are still seeing the same MK parade a decade later with 33 years left to pay. You don't think they want freshness?

And in this era of cheap jet travel and DVC (as well as O-Town being the timeshare capital of the world), the whole idea of what a local/AP audience is has changed greatly.

A local (for the purposes of talking about a guest who visits multiple times annually) can be in Longwood or Kissimmee or Windermere ... or Atlanta or Liverpool ... or Ireland ... or Canada ... or Brazil or ... etc.

It's just an excuse to NOT do things the right way, the Disney way or the way Old Man Disney would have done.

I wish everyone could just get that ... and then go see half a Fantasmic and be happy.:drevil:

~GFC~

 

[wdwmagic]

No one ever thinks of the logic. They can have a Christmas Parade and lights on the castle and holiday pyro and decorations etc, after all ... and not ruin any 'once in a lifetime' vacations ... which again logic states that if you're only getting them once in a lifetime you might as well give them the absolute worst product and not care if half a park is closed because even if you have a perfect one, it is a once in a lifetime trip,right?

I know, not exactly what we're talking about, but it all plays into why WDW allows its parks to grow stale and decay and why so many in the Internet/Social Media/Disney Lifestyle age play into it by spouting these talking points like facts.

Again, DL is NOT, NOT, NOT a locals park and saying it doesn't make it so. All it means is that on a average day, you're likely to have a 60/40 type mix of locals and folks from all over the world.

Those people like their attractions open as well. Some of them are once in a lifetime guests.

Indeed, with Disney's Best Kept Secret taking over WDW, the excuse and talking point becomes more ludicrous by the year.

People that bought in in 2001 are still seeing the same MK parade a decade later with 33 years left to pay. You don't think they want freshness?

And in this era of cheap jet travel and DVC (as well as O-Town being the timeshare capital of the world), the whole idea of what a local/AP audience is has changed greatly.

A local (for the purposes of talking about a guest who visits multiple times annually) can be in Longwood or Kissimmee or Windermere ... or Atlanta or Liverpool ... or Ireland ... or Canada ... or Brazil or ... etc.

It's just an excuse to NOT do things the right way, the Disney way or the way Old Man Disney would have done.

I wish everyone could just get that ... and then go see half a Fantasmic and be happy.:drevil:

~GFC~

I don't think you are comparing like for like. Adding Holiday pyro, or the castle dream lights does not take away from the signature experiences. Closing the Mansion for a month, then completely changing the story, is a whole different scenario. There are certain attractions that people want to see, things like the Haunted Mansion are one of them.

On the 70-30 argument. Do the specific numbers really matter? We know that publicly Disney say 70-30. It may be 65 - 45, or maybe 80 20. Still, DLR has a much higher local visitor base than WDW does. Simple as that.

You can add as many NOTs as you want, but a lot of people, myself included, consider DLR to be primarily a locals park. Disney also see it this way. Just because you say it is not, does not make it not.

You are beating a dead horse in a lot of what you are saying. A lot of people agree with you that they want to see new parades, new shows, more maintenance, and more refurbishments.

 

[Computer Magic]

The fact is the attractions are not as good as they could be. Quality is lost over quantity. 80% is good enough because companies don't want to put the resouces towards making it 100%. Until society changes it's view we will be stuck with mediocrity. Also people have to want to pay for quality and not expect quality at a discount. As long as you have discounts, DDP and DVC that reduces your cost you will have mediocrity. For these discounted pricing you will see fewer menu selctions, lower food quality, fewer new parades, fewer new shows, less maintenance, and less refurbishments.


Sadly many first timers don't know about discounts and pay top price for mediocrity. There are others that don't know how good the quality once was. That works against people like us that know what Disney is capable of accompliahing.

 

[Computer Magic]

I think people forget value season was a time for refurbs. The cost is lower to get people into the parks when kids are in school, weather is unpredictable and attractions may be closed.

 

[TP2000]

I think people forget value season was a time for refurbs. The cost is lower to get people into the parks when kids are in school, weather is unpredictable and attractions may be closed.

Yes, and yet WDW isn't taking advantage of Value Season for rehabs either. If anything, the big rehabs that WDW does get in the last 5 years seem to be aimed at spring and summer; Mansion, Space Mt., etc.

The first two weeks of November are particularly dead, the perfect Value Season. And yet WDW, across all four of its mature theme parks, only has one single attraction rehab scheduled for that period this year; the Treehouse.

At Disneyland, with two mature theme parks, there are four major D and E Ticket attractions closed for rehab during all or some of the first two weeks of November this year; Pirates, Small World, Space Mountain, and It's Tough To Be A Bug.

The first two weeks of November, 2011 and there's virtually no rehabs happening at any of the WDW theme parks, even though we as amateur fans can all come up with dozens of effects in WDW rides that aren't working now and have needed rehab for months or years.

 

[TP2000]

Closing the Mansion for a month, then completely changing the story, is a whole different scenario. There are certain attractions that people want to see, things like the Haunted Mansion are one of them.

The changeover from regular Mansion to Mansion Holiday takes much less than a month. It's usually done in 13 to 15 days.

This year the changeover took the longest it has taken in years with a 17 day rehab from August 30th to September 15th. (They replaced load belts and redid lighting, which added a few days) Similarly, the change back in January is usually a few days shorter; in the 10 to 12 day range in the dead of January (no pun intended ).

Small World is the same timeframe to change into the Holiday version from very late October until about the 10th or 12th day of November. Last year the change from Small World Holiday back to regular Small World took just 9 days; January 18th until January 27th.

These short timeframes are also used in Tokyo and Hong Kong where Small World and/or Haunted Mansion also get the big holiday overlays.

When you add those two Holiday rehabs together for a ride like Mansion, both the 15 days or so of installation in September, and the 10 or 12 days of removal in January, you barely get a month of rehab with a three month split in the middle.

What still has me fascinated and a tad confused, is that for all this talk of "WDW can't close rides for rehabs" when they do go for rare, big ride rehabs at WDW parks, they choose spring and summer to do it. Haunted Mansion got its giant four month rehab over the summer of 2007. Space Mountain was closed at WDW from April until November of 2009. It's like they aim these things at WDW for the summer months, and avoid January and February entirely. :veryconfu

 

[Computer Magic]

Yes, and yet WDW isn't taking advantage of Value Season for rehabs either. If anything, the big rehabs that WDW does get in the last 5 years seem to be aimed at spring and summer; Mansion, Space Mt., etc.

The first two weeks of November are particularly dead, the perfect Value Season. And yet WDW, across all four of its mature theme parks, only has one single attraction rehab scheduled for that period this year; the Treehouse.

At Disneyland, with two mature theme parks, there are four major D and E Ticket attractions closed for rehab during all or some of the first two weeks of November this year; Pirates, Small World, Space Mountain, and It's Tough To Be A Bug.

The first two weeks of November, 2011 and there's virtually no rehabs happening at any of the WDW theme parks, even though we as amateur fans can all come up with dozens of effects in WDW rides that aren't working now and have needed rehab for months or years.

exactly my point. I expect going in Sept that attractions may be closed and the weather may be cold (execpt last Dec when FL had record cold, I wasn't expecting that). I'm going at a reduce cost so I roll the dice.

 

[TP2000]

You can hear it from Jason Surrell, Walt Disney Imagineering. Take note that this is not someone who is in operations, but someone in creative who obviously does not sugar coat operational issues. DLR is 70% locals, 30% outside. WDW is directly the opposite.

Here it is from the man himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZCNYdHZpPH4#t=737s

Thank you for that link, it was interesting! :wave:

But as others who have working knowledge of Disneyland Resort here have said, I have to agree that just sounds off to me. It's just skewed way too conveniently to the locals, and I can't figure how statistically 70% of Disneyland's attendance is "local" (which really means to us locals that you live in "SoCal"; the 150 mile wide triangle of the 20+ Million people between Santa Barbara/Ventura to Palm Springs to San Diego).

And it also makes me wonder why Anaheim would have 20,000 hotel rooms within walking distance for the 21+ Million annual Disneyland Resort guests if 70% are local?

It seems way, way high of a figure to me. About 20% off by my amateur estimation. But it sure makes for a nifty and quick excuse why they can do Haunted Mansion Holiday in Anaheim and Tokyo but not Orlando.

I appreciate the fact that an Imagineer giving a scripted presentation in front of a conference room of drooling superfans was able to throw that out there. But just from my decade-plus experience of chatting with people in line at Disneyland, the 70% figure seems way too high.

Either the 70% figure is inaccurate (or simply outdated info) to help appease the Mansion superfans at that session, or somehow I have a statistically mind-boggling ability to queue up way too often with chatty people from Australia, Seattle, Calgary, and Scotland when I'm at Disneyland. :lol:

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

locals....guests.....naaaaa, you all should ride the RER to Disneyland Paris and listen to the hard core fanboys and fangirls from America and Canada, who can name drop entire ride quotes and attraction facts and within 30 minutes can compare all of the magic kingdom and disneyland paris....I get the luxury of somehow being surrounded by these people from time to time and I thought I liked disney parks?!:lol: :hammer:

 

[Skipper03]

Despite why you, me, and others may think is the best way of operating, WDW management have determined that the way they want to run WDW is with as many attractions open at all times as possible. As has been said many times before, this is a distinct difference to how Disneyland operates, due to its mainly local guest base. I think if you were to survey the 6000 guests who saw Fantasmic the other night with no dragon, and no sorcerer Mickey, 5900 of them would have said they would rather see it operate like that than not at all.

Now before you say I'm making excuses, I reiterate, this is Disney's decision on how they run things. I'm not saying I think it is right, I would rather them close it and have everything running 100%. Unfortunately the vast majority, which is what Disney caters to, do not share this view. These guests have just spent an average of $7000 on their bi-annual Disney vacation (which is now the average spend, frequency), and they expect Fant to run, they expect Everest to run, and at the end of the day when they measure the enjoyment of their trip, those outages don't make an impact. We can complain, moan all we want, it isn't going to change when our view is not that of the masses.

This is a fantastic explanation! Totally agree!

 

[ToTBellHop]

exactly my point. I expect going in Sept that attractions may be closed and the weather may be cold (execpt last Dec when FL had record cold, I wasn't expecting that). I'm going at a reduce cost so I roll the dice.

Not important, but I was reading your post--you expect the weather to be cold in September? I was under the impression that Sept. was swelteringly hot and muggy?

 

[Computer Magic]

Not important, but I was reading your post--you expect the weather to be cold in September? I was under the impression that Sept. was swelteringly hot and muggy?

My first post I stated unpredicatable weather, meaning Sept hurricanes or rain. It's not cold in Sept :hammer: especially if you live in Chicago. Although I think my wife has worn a jacket or long sleeve shirt at night in Sept. as it gotten down into the 50's.

 

[yeti]

Thank you for that link, it was interesting! :wave:

But as others who have working knowledge of Disneyland Resort here have said, I have to agree that just sounds off to me. It's just skewed way too conveniently to the locals, and I can't figure how statistically 70% of Disneyland's attendance is "local" (which really means to us locals that you live in "SoCal"; the 150 mile wide triangle of the 20+ Million people between Santa Barbara/Ventura to Palm Springs to San Diego).

And it also makes me wonder why Anaheim would have 20,000 hotel rooms within walking distance for the 21+ Million annual Disneyland Resort guests if 70% are local?

It seems way, way high of a figure to me. About 20% off by my amateur estimation. But it sure makes for a nifty and quick excuse why they can do Haunted Mansion Holiday in Anaheim and Tokyo but not Orlando.

I appreciate the fact that an Imagineer giving a scripted presentation in front of a conference room of drooling superfans was able to throw that out there. But just from my decade-plus experience of chatting with people in line at Disneyland, the 70% figure seems way too high.

Either the 70% figure is inaccurate (or simply outdated info) to help appease the Mansion superfans at that session, or somehow I have a statistically mind-boggling ability to queue up way too often with chatty people from Australia, Seattle, Calgary, and Scotland when I'm at Disneyland. :lol:

Just sayin'....7 million people are plenty to occupy 20,000 hotel rooms throughout the course of a year. It's a disney park. It's a tourist trap anywhere you put it.

 

[WDW1974]

While I agree with this statement, there is a reason why they don't. If you book a trip via WDW website with a promotion relating to ADRs, they call attention to making them, correct? (Inquisition as I would have no idea. We never book trips conventionally.) I would expect them to since it is a part of the package. If Disney did not do that then would you expect the individuals to make reservations like they do? I know I wouldn't when everyone has a reminder programmed in a phone or other electronic for everything. It boils down to Disney does not email the guest a list of rehabs (but more than likely do for ADRs). It requires extra work, extra work most people could careless about until they are there.

I don't feel Disney has ANY responsibility to guests regarding attraction/show/facility closures beyond placing them up on its website and making sure all CMs at its call centers have the info at their fingertips.

Beyond that, it is the guests' responsibility. If my trip will be ruined by BTMRR being closed in January then I better be smart enough to check and see when it is closing.

I can lay blame for a lot on Disney, but not this one.

I wonder what people did in the 70s ... I mean, I was a child, but recall visiting and not knowing what was closed until I got to the TTC and saw the info boards (think they are long gone and just at MK now, but could be mistaken) telling what attractions would be closed. Never once did we turn around and leave. Never once did I have a tantrum. Never once did my folks head to Guest Relations and demand a refund or free trip etc.

For a country that seems (as a whole) to be so against social 'entitlements' that are needed for living (food, healthcare etc), so many seem to feel Disney attractions are a whole 'nother matter.

Does the average guest care about the quality you speak of? Mind you society has become akin to gimmicks such as Jersey Shore and the like. As long as they are able to do then they are happy. Sadly I am sure you could turn off every AA inside of SSE and they would still go home raving about it. The fact the masses as a whole have had their standards drop and never experience the quality heyday has surely affected upkeep. To the average guest it is all about being able to do it and not experience it.

Two points here:

1.) Far more folks care about quality whether you/I/TDO realize it or not. They may sit and enjoy Fantasmic in its current state, but I am not about to say all people are too stupid to realize that something is off when the dragon comes out and doesn't move ... or when Mickey doesn't appear where it is obvious he should be there. Just like many people notice when attractions are falling apart ... when parks or restrooms are dirty ... when CMs are nasty or distracted etc. Just because they don't post on fan sites doesn't mean they don't notice, they don't care or that it doesn't affect Disney's bottom line. Many do notice and feel things aren't right (or as advertised) and either don't return or tell others to go.

2.) It doesn't matter whether people see Splash Mountain (just using a common example) falling apart and love it anyway. It doesn't matter whether people (or how many really) even see all that is falling apart. What matters is Walt Disney began DL based on the fact that things weren't going to be like other amusement ventures. Getting everything right to near perfection was the goal. And giving guests what they had no idea they wanted was why DL succeeded and gave birth to WDW, which did likewise and so on.

I think what a lot of fans are advocating is throwing out the standards that made Disney what it was/is in favor of a lower quality offering that is still vastly more expensive than when Disney made sure things were done right. While I am sure that makes Disney Social Media's Department (AKA The Celebration Place Gang) happy, it isn't what made most of us Disney fans.

If the children and child-like mentality that everything must always be open is going to be the mantra of the fan community going forward, then the product is only going to continue to decline because the bottom-line management team will use it as an excuse to continue to let things fall apart.

Allow me to pose this question. If it is widely regarded at DLR that its higher recurring guest population attribute to more regular downtime of attractions; wouldn't it only be natural to assume the mass of DVC owners at WDW would eventually manifest the same mindset as they visit more often?

I am replying in the middle of studying for a Vector Calculus test. My apologies if some items seem repetitive.

Myself, and others, have postulated this same idea. DVCers and APers may not be largely local, BUT, BUT, BUT (and I just seem to need to drum this home) still maye visit 2-3-4 times a year. And spend significantly more than DLR 'locals' so it's unfathomable to me that those folks want to visit parks that are stale, have the same product year in and year out and have attractions in disrepair.

A lot of folks want to eat their pie and have their cookies to in this discussion. It can't be both ... it's either once in a lifers need everything open and the same all the time ... or it's DVCers/APers are spending way too much to get a subpar product (and, please before someone even goes there, don't try and say that because they spend so much they want low quality product versus regular freshening and rolling rehabs etc because that holds no water).

~Miami Dolphins Number One ... Miami Has the Dolphins, The Greatest Football Team ... They Take the Ball ... ~

 

[WDW1974]

Well imagineering quotes guests at 70% locals & 30% out of area for DL. Versus the opposite numbers for WDW.

I've said it before and probably will many times again, but those numbers aren't accurate. Not greatly inaccurate. I know at DL it was once almost
two thirds local and that has become closer to 60/40 (according to the man who runs the resort and I tend to think he'd know this and have no reason to lie/spin about it).

I also doubt the 30/70 split in O-Town. I actually believe that is higher on the locals much of the year. I'd say it's much closer to 15-20% locals.

But I also have explained in a few posts here why that doesn't really matter. The point is REPEAT guests/fans, not whether they live within a 150-mile radius of the resort. If you're an APer living in the UK who visits WDW twice a year, then I fail to see how you are not more of a local than a Jacksonville resident who drives down for a weekend during Food and Wine Festival and a day around Christmas. If anything, the UKer is more 'valuable' and I doubt they pay their money (even with both the GREAT exchange rate and incredible discounts Disney offers in that market) expecting and excusing poor show just because they actually get to bake in something they don't have over there ... something big and bright and hot ... oh, yeah the sun!:drevil:

We all know that the intention/spirit of the park isn't just for locals, but just raw numbers show the reason for that generalization. Florida also pulls a ton of people from Europe... Look how Disney caters to APHolders in DL vs WDW.

WDW is by far the most tourist dependant of all Disney resorts worldwide, no doubt. There are far more 'locals' at DL, TDL, DLP and HKDL. But how that somehow has been turned into an argument for stale rundown parks that can never change or close anything is strictly the result of PR spin, social media and fans willing to believe anything they are told. It is a very poor excuse for bad management and bad decision-making.

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

Despite why you, me, and others may think is the best way of operating, WDW management have determined that the way they want to run WDW is with as many attractions open at all times as possible.

No disagreement there. Just a fundamental disagreement with that approach. Look, I've said it here (and some jealous haters enjoy taking a shot at me for mentioning it), but in the past two years I've visited EVERY Disney resort on the planet with multiple visits to WDW, DL and HKDL. None of the resorts have the show quality issues WDW has. None of the resorts have the stale vibe in their entertainment offerings. None of them have the feeling of being left to fall apart that WDW has.

To me, that's more than enough of an indictment of the people running the resort. TDO needs a massive enema.

As has been said many times before, this is a distinct difference to how Disneyland operates, due to its mainly local guest base. I think if you were to survey the 6000 guests who saw Fantasmic the other night with no dragon, and no sorcerer Mickey, 5900 of them would have said they would rather see it operate like that than not at all.

I don't know that I'd agree with that at all. I think you're greatly underestimating the average WDW guest (something I always get accused of and readily admit I'm often guilty of!:drevil. Do I believe your underlying point that most people there would have likely said that? Yes.

But I don't think that should matter one bit. People often don't know what's best for them and, worse, what's best for all.

Now before you say I'm making excuses, I reiterate, this is Disney's decision on how they run things. I'm not saying I think it is right, I would rather them close it and have everything running 100%. Unfortunately the vast majority, which is what Disney caters to, do not share this view. These guests have just spent an average of $7000 on their bi-annual Disney vacation (which is now the average spend, frequency), and they expect Fant to run, they expect Everest to run, and at the end of the day when they measure the enjoyment of their trip, those outages don't make an impact. We can complain, moan all we want, it isn't going to change when our view is not that of the masses.

I think we can go back and forth until the Dolphins win a football game or reality TV dies a much deserved death and it won't matter. Neither you nor I and -- most importantly -- TDO knows what the masses want more (and they don't care).

They didn't care about not running Fantasmic in the summer of 2010 or closing the park at 7 p.m. ... They didn't care about not showing it two weeks ago when Gartner rented the park for private event.

In the end, they only care about the bottom line and reaching certain objectives. That's constantly at conflict with the PR Disney spins, its Legacy and the beliefs of the company's founders and his amazing team that built the foundation of an amazing MAGIC factory that these very temporary managers/execs are willing to blow up.

I don't for a second agree with you that folks that pay $7,000 for a vacation would rather lower quality across the board versus having a few things possibly closed on their visits. But I don't wish to go round and round on that point.

~GFC~