Marvel coming to WDW?!?!

[WDW1974]

Jim Hill chimes in, says the situation is complicated (starts about 14 minutes in):
https://disneydish.bandcamp.com/track/guardians-of-the-galaxy-rumors

According to Jim, Guardians will not be able to be used east of the Mississippi once they become part of the Avenger's universe in the Infinity Wars movies. He cites page 10 of the contract:

So, this would have to be a temporary overlay and out by the time Infinity War movies are are released to theaters in 2018 and 2019 because in those movies, the Guardians of the Galaxy fight alongside the Avengers as they battle Thanos. That then makes the Guardians part of the extended Avengers family which would breach the contract if those characters were used in Orlando.

Disney's California Adventure, which is obviously west of the Mississippi and can use the Avengers characters, will be getting the Guardians overlay because of the tower's proximity to the expansion pod which is planned for broader Marvel expansion. Not much was said on how permanent of a transformation this would be but they did still call it an overlay.

As for Orlando, this is Bob Chapek trying to do right by bringing parity between the coasts as a response to all the outrage he saw over "Orlando getting screwed" out of Hyperspace Mountain, which is a popular Anaheim exclusive that wouldn't have thematically made sense in Orlando since Star Wars and Space Mountain don't live in the same park in Florida. Chapek saw all the complaints and didn't want to repeat the mistake- so good intentions, reportedly.

Jim Concludes that his "Magic 8 Ball says no [to the overlay's installation in Orlando]" because of the powerful reaction to the idea. If so, congrats everyone.

I really couldn't care less what that con man has to say, let alone in one of my threads.

And to spin this as Chappie is a good guy and was trying to do something for the fans?!?! And that FL fans were complaining about Hyperspace Mountain?!?! (must have forgotten the REAL anger when the REAL redo for the attraction was killed by Crofton, Holmes and Co.) Puh-leaze. Who believes this crap?

He just wants to keep on keeping on ... wants that gravy train to continue. That's why he hasn't written a negative word about the company in years. If he cared about getting the story right he might be writing about how incompetent Chappie is and why some folks are worried about him being the second coming of Paul Pressler. That wouldn't be good for his access and his finances though.

 

[WDW1974]

Sorry, I don't buy it. Disney legal must think GOTG can pass muster for some time or there wouldn't be any consideration for use in Orlando.

Also Hyperspace Mountain didn't go to WDW because their Space doesn't have onboard audio or the projection infrastructure DL's has. They literally CAN'T do Hyperspace Mountain there. As if Chapek cares about Star Wars theming in multiple parks?

The fact this was even blue skied is all one needs to know about any and all legal issues. ... Chapek cares about himself and his career. Typical Disney exec.

 

[WDW1974]

Brief clarification- you might not like it, but Stitch is one of the most intricate, advanced audio-animatronics ever produced. Not sure how that fits in with "quick and cheap".

That was the only place any money was spent. And one kewl AA doesn't make a quality attraction. Overall, the attraction was very quick and very cheap.

 

[WDW1974]

I did get a name at the time, but it has since escaped me because it was a few days ago. It's very possible that I got a cubicle dweller. I just found it interesting that I was given two distinct answers for the two proposed overlays. Probably means nothing.

Who knows? With this company I have long since learned that anything (usually bad) is possible.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

Slightly inaccurate. Hulk is shared with Universal which is why there hasnt been a new Hulk film Post-Avengers because Universal holds the distribution rights. Spider-Man, while a Sony Pictures property, is now shared with Marvel Studios per a contract negotiation. Also, I'm not 100% but I believe Marvel got the rights to Man-Thing back.

Hulk rights is not really shared with Universal. Universal just holds the distribution rights to solo hulk movies, not the rights to the character itself.

This venn diagram is a bit more recent:

And yes, it is for movies only. Specifically live action movies, not even animated movies. As you can see Marvel does have man-thing back. Ellen Brandt, man thing's wife, appeared in Iron Man 3 as well. However, the diagram is not all encompassing. If someone is not there, think of the "family" they belong to or where their origins started.

Namor is a complicated one as well, never been used in a movie, yet the rights haven't reverted back to Marvel. I think Universal has distribution rights to him and Hulk solo, but not sure if those rights expire. Presumably Fox also has some rights to Namor as well.

I also question why Disney didn't just buy Spiderman full movie rights outright from Sony, instead of working out this deal. Maybe it's just one step into eventually reacquiring the rights completely, but I expected them to be a bit more aggressive.

 

[MUTZIE77]

Did you get the cubicle dweller's, who would likely take a selfie if she/he met Georgie, name? First, last and title with company. Did they say there would be no temporary or permanent overlay of GotG to ToT? And they used the word NEVER? And has anyone called TDA or do our DLers just not care (one justification I was told for why this was an easy sell in CA where DCA has dozens of attractions and not the amount of fingers most people have on one hand like WDW)?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but it's relevant nonetheless. I spoke to a Steven Donaldson and if my memory serves me, he referred to you as "that guy" or something to that effect when talking about Internet rumors. He informed me that anytime disney makes an announcement it would be made by the parks blog. He said that there are no plans to retheme ToT. He also noted that due to changes ongoing at DHS, the Tower is currently the park icon. I told him I expected the answers he gave and I found them hard to believe. Anyway, here is Stevens information...


Steven Donaldson

Guest Experience Services

Walt Disney World Resort

407-934-7628

 

[mickEblu]

Anything is possible.

I know they didn't expect the attention. Or people reacting badly to it.

But when you have WDI hanging around BOTH Towers at odd hours. When you have them doing a private show for Colglazier (still trying to find out if Georgie had one) with special headsets and show scenes being described during the ride ... did they really think no one was ever going to find out? Or are they using the fact they knew it would? Not really sure nor do I care. I just want them to rethink this ridiculous idea for BOTH coasts.

THANK YOU. It kills me everytime I hear someone say "it makes sense to add GOTG to DCA's tower."

DCA's version may be inferior to the one at DHS but it's still a fan favorite and shoehorning GOTG into the tower is wrong no matter how you look at it.

 

[mickEblu]

Did you get the cubicle dweller's, who would likely take a selfie if she/he met Georgie, name? First, last and title with company. Did they say there would be no temporary or permanent overlay of GotG to ToT? And they used the word NEVER? And has anyone called TDA or do our DLers just not care (one justification I was told for why this was an easy sell in CA where DCA has dozens of attractions and not the amount of fingers most people have on one hand like WDW)?

I'm planning on calling TDA tomorrow

 

[Floyd M]

THANK YOU. It kills me everytime I hear someone say "it makes sense to add GOTG to DCA's tower."

DCA's version may be inferior to the one at DHS but it's still a fan favorite and shoehorning GOTG into the tower is wrong no matter how you look at it.

My sentiments exactly. It makes no sense at all, unless the sole priority is to get Marvel into DCA as quickly and cheaply as possible. That said, I'm skeptical that any kind of major conversion could happen in 5 months, and if they can't open a significantly redesigned Tower in time to coincide with GOTG 2's release then it's just a staggeringly pointless waste of a classic attraction. (BTW -- while I'm not in favor of a temporary Guardians overlay, that would simply be an annoyance rather than the outright travesty of a permanent re-theme. But then again, based on Hyperspace Mountain, who can say what "temporary" really means anymore?) I'm just praying that a refusal to go along with the project in Orlando will be sufficient to quash it in Anaheim, but I don't feel too confident about that right now. Contacting TDA to express objections and see if they offer any kind of outright denial of the plan sounds like a very good idea.

 

[alissafalco]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but it's relevant nonetheless. I spoke to a Steven Donaldson and if my memory serves me, he referred to you as "that guy" or something to that effect when talking about Internet rumors. He informed me that anytime disney makes an announcement it would be made by the parks blog. He said that there are no plans to retheme ToT. He also noted that due to changes ongoing at DHS, the Tower is currently the park icon. I told him I expected the answers he gave and I found them hard to believe. Anyway, here is Stevens information...


Steven Donaldson

Guest Experience Services

Walt Disney World Resort

407-934-7628

I spoke with him as well.

 

[mickEblu]

My sentiments exactly. It makes no sense at all, unless the sole priority is to get Marvel into DCA as quickly and cheaply as possible. That said, I'm skeptical that any kind of major conversion could happen in 5 months, and if they can't open a significantly redesigned Tower in time to coincide with GOTG 2's release then it's just a staggeringly pointless waste of a classic attraction. (BTW -- while I'm not in favor of a temporary Guardians overlay, that would simply be an annoyance rather than the outright travesty of a permanent re-theme. But then again, based on Hyperspace Mountain, who can say what "temporary" really means anymore?) I'm just praying that a refusal to go along with the project in Orlando will be sufficient to quash it in Anaheim, but I don't feel too confident about that right now. Contacting TDA to express objections and see if they offer any kind of outright denial of the plan sounds like a very good idea.

This.... I hope folks start calling TDA. On another note, I've Expressed why I think this is wrong for DCA in numerous posts in the DL forum and unfortunately I'm not getting very much support. Most people posting there seem to be indifferent to a GOTG takeover. Then again there's like 6 people that post there. To be fair nobody is all that excited for it either so that should also speak volumes. It's worth noting though that 5 Super Fans who think it's ok to shoehorn GOTG into DCA's tower just because it's the inferior clone arent really speaking for the average guest/ DLR APer.

 

[djlaosc]

WDSP is a park that has quite a few attractions that we would love to see come to DHS, but the main problems with it are the look of the place, there needs to be more to do, the fact that the Studio Backlot Tour focuses on a 13 episode and cancelled TV show from 13.5 years ago (and Jeremy Irons seems extremely bored), and Armageddon.

But, who would argue against Florida receiving any of the following?

- Cinemagique,
- Animagique,
- Art of Disney Animation (replacing the one that we have lost),
- Crush's Coaster, Ratatouille,
- Les Tapis Volants (if it got rid of the Magic Carpets of Aladdin from Adventureland )

They have the good basis of a park there, they just need to keep on improving it.

 

[FigmentForver96]

This.... I hope folks start calling TDA. On another note, I've Expressed why I think this is wrong for DCA in numerous posts in the DL forum and unfortunately I'm not getting very much support. Most people posting there seem to be indifferent to a GOTG takeover. Then again there's like 6 people that post there. To be fair nobody is all that excited for it either so that should also speak volumes. It's worth noting though that 5 Super Fans who think it's ok to shoehorn GOTG into DCA's tower just because it's the inferior clone arent really speaking for the average guest/ DLR APer.

That's because they only see DCA as the park next door and not the second gate of the world famous Disneyland Resort. Like it or not the park is part of that resort and Magic Kingdom is not the only park there. They see Star Wars Land as the highest crime ever committed against the people yet could care less what they did next door. That's not how it works. That's like saying it only matters what happens at Magic Kingdom since it was the original and Epcot, Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom don't matter.

 

[mickEblu]

That's because they only see DCA as the park next door and not the second gate of the world famous Disneyland Resort. Like it or not the park is part of that resort and Magic Kingdom is not the only park there. They see Star Wars Land as the highest crime ever committed against the people yet could care less what they did next door. That's not how it works. That's like saying it only matters what happens at Magic Kingdom since it was the original and Epcot, Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom don't matter.

The funny thing is as much as I think Disneyland is more sacred than DCA, the loss of TZTOT would bother me more than Star Wars Land at DL. At least there we re talking about mostly backstage area and the ROA not being butchered as badly as we once thought is a great thing. In fact we may end up being able to make the argument that the ROA was enhanced. It also likely saves the ROA from being permanently removed ( crazy idea I know but I wouldn't put it past them) or reduced even more for a very long time.

In addition, as much as it doesn't make sense to add a single IP land in Walt's park you can at least follow the reasoning. It was the only available real estate to add a proper SWL in So Cal (waiting for a third gate was never going to happen in a reasonable amount of time). With the GOTG permanent overlay for TOT it's really hard to follow any sort of reasoning. You don't destroy and water down a classic E ticket attraction for a little extra short term revenue. A shortsighted cheap and lazy cash grab is all it is. This whole thing just screams temporary overlay and not this ridiculous idea.

 

[stretchsje]

And to spin this as Chappie is a good guy and was trying to do something for the fans?!?! And that FL fans were complaining about Hyperspace Mountain?!?! (must have forgotten the REAL anger when the REAL redo for the attraction was killed by Crofton, Holmes and Co.) Puh-leaze. Who believes this crap?

Well, it never made sense to me that converting ToT would be done for financial reasons. Doing nothing is cheaper than doing something and is the correct thing to do in Orlando (or both coasts). That's one of the lingering mysteries that hasn't been answered in this thread, especially when budget cuts are apparent everywhere else. As you pointed out, Disney LOVES to do nothing. How do you reconcile this? It's not just the monetary cost; it's the opportunity cost of having the park's icon closed for refurb while there isn't much else operating. I find it much more plausible, however unfortunate, that they'd simply replace the intro movie to remove the Twilight Zone reference and save on having to pay the license.

Maybe you're right that it's all about reinforcing the Marvel franchise, despite Guardians itself not being a large mover of merchandise, according to my n-of-2 sample size of having two disinterested boys. But that brings us to the real question here.

Is Jim right about Disney's interpretation of the Marvel licensing agreement, meaning that any installation in Orlando would be necessarily temporary? That would make the financials all the more impractical if true but your timeline suggests that Disney believes Jim's interpretation is false. This is really the most interesting question in this thread- does Disney lose the theme park rights to "minor" Marvel characters (such as Guardians) as soon as they're tied into the Disney's cinematic universe? The contract seems ambiguous to me in Disney's favor.

I don't think anyone would disagree about the the state of Space Mountain in the Magic Kingdom, but that seems like a whole different discussion and the refurb was, as you said, killed during Crofton. I bet we'd all love to see this ToT budget go toward a Space Mountain refurb to establish parity with Disneyland's hardware.

He just wants to keep on keeping on ... wants that gravy train to continue. That's why he hasn't written a negative word about the company in years. If he cared about getting the story right he might be writing about how incompetent Chappie is and why some folks are worried about him being the second coming of Paul Pressler. That wouldn't be good for his access and his finances though.

In fairness, the first half of the podcast was very critical of the new after dark party at the Magic Kingdom in addition to all the other price increases (they laughed at the "crazy" dinner-for-lunch pricing at Ohana and Crystal Palace) as well as the related debacle of Shanghai. (He's expecting a tiered opening.) Plus, good intentions or not, it's hardly positive to bring attention to the ToT proposition blowing up in his face, even if done respectfully. Damage control? Perhaps. But as the folks posting earlier have noted, elsewhere Disney (Steven Donaldson) has taken the policy of deny, deny, deny.

 

[DisneyJayL]

Wow, looks like I'm late to the party!

 

[Mike S]

Anything is possible.

I know they didn't expect the attention. Or people reacting badly to it.

But when you have WDI hanging around BOTH Towers at odd hours. When you have them doing a private show for Colglazier (still trying to find out if Georgie had one) with special headsets and show scenes being described during the ride ... did they really think no one was ever going to find out? Or are they using the fact they knew it would? Not really sure nor do I care. I just want them to rethink this ridiculous idea for BOTH coasts.

I remember when someone here said Disney was surprised at the reaction to Frostrom as well. Still as clueless as ever I see.

 

[George]

The fact this was even blue skied is all one needs to know about any and all legal issues. ... Chapek cares about himself and his career. Typical Disney exec.

Of course, we all care about ourselves and our career. You can learn about the environment at a company by how a career is fostered. We could all envision a Disney where Chapek thought to himself, "You know, we really should get a GotG attraction before those new movies come out. We should be able to bang out a novel, high quality attraction in the next 6 months. A couple of our parks are a little short on actual fun things to do anyway." However, that company is getting harder and harder to imagine. Currently, I'm having an acid flashback, otherwise, I would've been unable to even think of something like that. Of course, back in the mists of time there apparently was a point where ideas like, "boat ride with dolls singing about how we're all fundamentally human and therefore should all get along" or "why don't we have a ride about the history of communication in the giant golf ball that Walt kept showing" were actually able to percolate to the top and get made. If you had a person walking around with ideas like that today, I'm assuming that they would either change ("Hey, how about Jack Sparrow's Journey into a Pirate's Imagination!"), be kept around for ridicule, or fired and the legend of their existence would be used as a warning for anyone who exhibited actual creativity ("Did you hear what happened to Phil when he thought that updating the Rhine River idea may not be bad for WS? He even took time to make drawing of what we'd see when our little boat went by various show scenes. What a fool. Besides the whole Daredevil stunt spectacular thing has a very Germanic feel to it.")

 

[baymenxpac]

That was the only place any money was spent. And one kewl AA doesn't make a quality attraction. Overall, the attraction was very quick and very cheap.

this. it would be like if they decided they were going to replace a very intricate olaf AA with the yeti in expedition everest, then just change prayer flags to sparkly snowflakes. you'd have a cool new AA, but you'd have a pretty crummy and lazy overlay that rips the heart out of the original attraction.

...oh god, i've given them an idea...NEVERMIND

 

[Smiddimizer]

WDSP is a park that has quite a few attractions that we would love to see come to DHS, but the main problems with it are the look of the place, there needs to be more to do, the fact that the Studio Backlot Tour focuses on a 13 episode and cancelled TV show from 13.5 years ago (and Jeremy Irons seems extremely bored), and Armageddon.

But, who would argue against Florida receiving any of the following?

- Cinemagique,
- Animagique,
- Art of Disney Animation (replacing the one that we have lost),
- Crush's Coaster, Ratatouille,
- Les Tapis Volants (if it got rid of the Magic Carpets of Aladdin from Adventureland )

They have the good basis of a park there, they just need to keep on improving it.

All it really needs is an aesthetic overhaul. A more welcoming entrance would do wonders, especially since Toon Studios already works pretty well (minus the Cars spinner) as a transition from backstage to "onstage" environments (Animation, Tapis, Crush's Coaster-in-a-Box -> Toy Story & Ratatouille). The Backlot is ugly as sin but it'll probably become Marvel down the road anyway.