FigmentForver96
Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to drown on pirates. If I want to swim then I will stay at the resort
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Major 2015 Pirates of the Caribbean Refurbishment Watch/Rumor.
- Thread starter Sped2424
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- magic kingdom
JourneysEnd
Well-Known Member
Definitely, the water's cleaner.
JediMasterMatt
Well-Known Member
Water flume based attractions have been around in the amusement industry for well over 100 years since the original Shoot-the-Chutes attractions were created. The industry (*usually) has a pretty good grasp on the hydrodynamics involved in such attractions.
The amount of wave that is created is a byproduct of the fluid friction caused under deceleration from the mass of the boat attempting to cut through the mass of water. More mass under the water line means more mass that needs moved out of the way in the water. When water can't be displaced quickly, it creates a wave.
There are many things that can be done to fix the "YOU WILL GET WET" factor currently on MK's Pirates.
- New boats that ride higher in the water
- New boats that have a more gradual/longer/sleek angle on the prow to allow the water to move more quickly under the raft and allow it to hydroplane more
- Redesigned drop profile to allow the rafts to enter into the water at a less steep angle/entering the water over a longer course of time thus allowing a more gradual deceleration by hydroplaning
- Redesigned drop with brakes to allow the rafts to enter at less velocity and thereby not needing to displace as much water as quickly do to the reduced force from the boat
- Any combination of the above
One thing is certain... doing nothing and expecting different results is foolish. Of course, it is the cheaper method.
*There have been many times in the amusement industry where water based attractions just don't ever work the way they are supposed to. Even recent attempts by Intamin have been spectacular in their failures to produce reliable rides with the intended impact (wave) that was expected.
The amount of wave that is created is a byproduct of the fluid friction caused under deceleration from the mass of the boat attempting to cut through the mass of water. More mass under the water line means more mass that needs moved out of the way in the water. When water can't be displaced quickly, it creates a wave.
There are many things that can be done to fix the "YOU WILL GET WET" factor currently on MK's Pirates.
- New boats that ride higher in the water
- New boats that have a more gradual/longer/sleek angle on the prow to allow the water to move more quickly under the raft and allow it to hydroplane more
- Redesigned drop profile to allow the rafts to enter into the water at a less steep angle/entering the water over a longer course of time thus allowing a more gradual deceleration by hydroplaning
- Redesigned drop with brakes to allow the rafts to enter at less velocity and thereby not needing to displace as much water as quickly do to the reduced force from the boat
- Any combination of the above
One thing is certain... doing nothing and expecting different results is foolish. Of course, it is the cheaper method.
*There have been many times in the amusement industry where water based attractions just don't ever work the way they are supposed to. Even recent attempts by Intamin have been spectacular in their failures to produce reliable rides with the intended impact (wave) that was expected.
180º
Well-Known Member
I can't believe they wouldn't have tested these boats as extensively as Disneyland is testing theirs. The new DL boats (which are a different design) have been quietly cycling for a couple years and are just now beginning to show up for good. It will be a whole new fleet starting next year, if I understand @Old Mouseketeer correctly. Any chance WDW would fork over the cash for some of these?
JourneysEnd
Well-Known Member
GhostHost1000
Premium Member
Maybe I'm wrong but boats like these couldn't cost a massive amount could they?
I would like to see some boat similar to the old Maelstrom boats but made to look more like pirate ships. Speaking of which, those boats never had a problem including their own drop
180º
Well-Known Member
Well, I think they actually are rather costly, which is why...
...yeah.
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
So are admission tickets.
halltd
Well-Known Member
I just wanted to add that I attended the Halloween party on Sunday night and rode Pirates twice. First time we sat in the back two rows (party of six) and the rest of the boat was full with three people (some four) in each row. We only got splashed by the water cannon in the bombardment scene and no one got wet on the drop. The boat was also nowhere near taking on water as described in here.
The second time we sat in rows two and three with the boat loaded with the same number of people before. Same results. Well, a couple people got misted on the drop from overspray, but nothing like on Splash or Kali. Still got splashed by the cannon fire.
This is the first time any of my family (or myself) had ridden since the refurb and we were all blown away. Animatronics were amazing, audio was all working (and we caught a ton of things we had never heard before), clouds were up, scent machines were on in several scenes (although I thought one was way too close to the boat as it seemed to spray right in my nose), and boats never stacked once. The first time we waited maybe 20 minutes, the second time 10. But, boats were all going out full. The only "negative" thing I could really even say about the attraction was that the queue seemed way too bright, and some scenes in the ride also seemed overly bright. I didn't really notice any light flicker either. But, otherwise, LOVED the refurb!
Just thought I'd add a little positivity to this thread since I was expecting to need a poncho and life vest after reading this thread.
The second time we sat in rows two and three with the boat loaded with the same number of people before. Same results. Well, a couple people got misted on the drop from overspray, but nothing like on Splash or Kali. Still got splashed by the cannon fire.
This is the first time any of my family (or myself) had ridden since the refurb and we were all blown away. Animatronics were amazing, audio was all working (and we caught a ton of things we had never heard before), clouds were up, scent machines were on in several scenes (although I thought one was way too close to the boat as it seemed to spray right in my nose), and boats never stacked once. The first time we waited maybe 20 minutes, the second time 10. But, boats were all going out full. The only "negative" thing I could really even say about the attraction was that the queue seemed way too bright, and some scenes in the ride also seemed overly bright. I didn't really notice any light flicker either. But, otherwise, LOVED the refurb!
Just thought I'd add a little positivity to this thread since I was expecting to need a poncho and life vest after reading this thread.
roj2323
Well-Known Member
Rode Pirates yesterday. The work they did to the cue is incredible. It looks soooooo much better than it did. It looked like they touched nearly every surface. All of the barrels, boxes rope, and other scenic elements had been painted or replaced. The fist size hole in the wall at the beginning of the cue was fixed and the walls had been painted in most areas. The same goes for the rest of the attraction it looked great. That said our boat had at least an inch of water on the floor at the end of the ride, the poor girl in the front got soaked, I got a pretty good splash as well and the boat was noticeably listing the left about 5 degrees. It's a shame really from a ride standpoint it looked great but I will not be back until they fix the boats. If I wanted to get wet (way more than a sprits) I would have ridden splash mountain.
180º
Well-Known Member
Hey, I'm not disagreeing with you.
Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
I actually wonder why they just dont attach something to the front to make the water to each side , not flat straight upwards.
If you see the boats, they have a too rounded front. Also the newer boats seem to miss the rubber ward the older ones had.
alternatives I can think of, is make the boat bottom have some sort of L shaped gradual fall with rubber wheels.
That lets the boat enter the water straight, not downwards.
Djali999
Active Member
Ex Pirates Cast here. First of all let me say that I have not worked with the new boats. I left WDW in 2011 but I was very much familiar with the old boats, which came with their own problems.
There's actually wheels on the side of the boats that ride below the water line that keep the boat centered in the underwater troth. The back right wheel would often catch on that slight left turn while heading into Bombardment Bay. Once, this happened while there was a movement impaired gentleman riding by himself in the boat that got jammed. The poor guy sat in that boat for hours as maintenance and then finally paramedics worked to get the boat free and remove him. I'll never forget that night - I approached my managers to ask to go home early and they had formed a perimeter around the emergency exits. When a door opened she threw herself in front of me to prevent me from seeing what was going on inside. Anybody who got a look at this guy could be summoned to court!
I can't speak for the new boats and their alarming ability to take on water. I've ridden in them a bunch of times now and can't say I like them. They feel cheap, especially when they're being scooped up onto the approach belts outside Unload. The old boats needed to be balanced very carefully. If the left side was too heavy, the boat would shudder as it went around that corner immediately after the drop. If it was too heavy on the right, it would create a bit of a splash. Of course in those days we were encouraged to fill every seat of every boat - no matter what, sitting groups of 2 and 1 together in the same row, etc. With a lighter load of guests the boats should operate better. You should see the boats cycling in the morning with nobody in them - Pirates is never as perfect again!
I've been on the refurbed ride a few times. I sat in the front and got a smattering of water both times - not remotely what I would consider to be "drenched". In my most recent trip the boat was not packed full and the boat went down the ramp and made the left turn at the bottom of the down ramp smooth as glass. As an ex-Pirates CM, that impressed me a lot. But as I said, minute differences in weight and velocity can potentially produce different waves/splashes. We used to have a sign out front during "old Pirates" (pre 2006) that clearly warned about getting wet, and Disneyland used to have 2-3 of them.
Speaking of Disneyland, I've never gotten wetter on any Pirates than I have on theirs. On my trips in 2012 and repeatedly as a local in 2013 and 2014, water would quite often ride up over the lip of Row 6 at the bottom of the first drop and totally soak your butt. I've been on FL Pirates probably literally hundreds of times as a guest, CM and AP and I've never gotten more than a mild spray. IIRC in one of David Koenig's books he recounts how DL Pirates was originally engineered to produce no splash but they found that guests expected there to be a bit of a splash so the ride was re-engineered to provide a bit of a splash.
Finally, there's been a lot of discussion here about the cloud effects in the ride. I was on the show quality assurance team for Pirates from 2004-2007 and I'm very familiar with all of those effects. They're called 10x10 projectors and FL Pirates has 8 of them: 6 upstairs and 2 downstairs. The 6 upstairs are 3 each for Moonlight Bay and Hurricane Bay. I was very happy to see the long-lost Hurricane Bay Cloud Projector 2 finally working again after the refurb. Hooray!
There's only 2 in the town scene, and they are located above the last Chase Scene turntable, illuminating the ceiling above Old Bill and the Band. These clouds are actually intended to be seen behind the Well Scene, which works at Disneyland but not so well at MK. Most MK riders notice them by looking up near Old Bill. There has never, ever been a time when the entire ceiling of the town scene was illuminated with 10x10 cloud projectors. The current arrangement is correct.
There's one other cloud effect, added in 2006, in Bombardment Bay. It's a digital video projection. It's currently looking better and more convincing than I've seen it looking. The rebuilt mister nozzles in Bombardment are really doing their jobs.
There's actually wheels on the side of the boats that ride below the water line that keep the boat centered in the underwater troth. The back right wheel would often catch on that slight left turn while heading into Bombardment Bay. Once, this happened while there was a movement impaired gentleman riding by himself in the boat that got jammed. The poor guy sat in that boat for hours as maintenance and then finally paramedics worked to get the boat free and remove him. I'll never forget that night - I approached my managers to ask to go home early and they had formed a perimeter around the emergency exits. When a door opened she threw herself in front of me to prevent me from seeing what was going on inside. Anybody who got a look at this guy could be summoned to court!
I can't speak for the new boats and their alarming ability to take on water. I've ridden in them a bunch of times now and can't say I like them. They feel cheap, especially when they're being scooped up onto the approach belts outside Unload. The old boats needed to be balanced very carefully. If the left side was too heavy, the boat would shudder as it went around that corner immediately after the drop. If it was too heavy on the right, it would create a bit of a splash. Of course in those days we were encouraged to fill every seat of every boat - no matter what, sitting groups of 2 and 1 together in the same row, etc. With a lighter load of guests the boats should operate better. You should see the boats cycling in the morning with nobody in them - Pirates is never as perfect again!
I've been on the refurbed ride a few times. I sat in the front and got a smattering of water both times - not remotely what I would consider to be "drenched". In my most recent trip the boat was not packed full and the boat went down the ramp and made the left turn at the bottom of the down ramp smooth as glass. As an ex-Pirates CM, that impressed me a lot. But as I said, minute differences in weight and velocity can potentially produce different waves/splashes. We used to have a sign out front during "old Pirates" (pre 2006) that clearly warned about getting wet, and Disneyland used to have 2-3 of them.
Speaking of Disneyland, I've never gotten wetter on any Pirates than I have on theirs. On my trips in 2012 and repeatedly as a local in 2013 and 2014, water would quite often ride up over the lip of Row 6 at the bottom of the first drop and totally soak your butt. I've been on FL Pirates probably literally hundreds of times as a guest, CM and AP and I've never gotten more than a mild spray. IIRC in one of David Koenig's books he recounts how DL Pirates was originally engineered to produce no splash but they found that guests expected there to be a bit of a splash so the ride was re-engineered to provide a bit of a splash.
Finally, there's been a lot of discussion here about the cloud effects in the ride. I was on the show quality assurance team for Pirates from 2004-2007 and I'm very familiar with all of those effects. They're called 10x10 projectors and FL Pirates has 8 of them: 6 upstairs and 2 downstairs. The 6 upstairs are 3 each for Moonlight Bay and Hurricane Bay. I was very happy to see the long-lost Hurricane Bay Cloud Projector 2 finally working again after the refurb. Hooray!
There's only 2 in the town scene, and they are located above the last Chase Scene turntable, illuminating the ceiling above Old Bill and the Band. These clouds are actually intended to be seen behind the Well Scene, which works at Disneyland but not so well at MK. Most MK riders notice them by looking up near Old Bill. There has never, ever been a time when the entire ceiling of the town scene was illuminated with 10x10 cloud projectors. The current arrangement is correct.
There's one other cloud effect, added in 2006, in Bombardment Bay. It's a digital video projection. It's currently looking better and more convincing than I've seen it looking. The rebuilt mister nozzles in Bombardment are really doing their jobs.
There are plans to attempt to lessen the issue. Though they won't correct all the problems.
Monorail_Red_77
Well-Known Member
Like you said...
My thoughts is it would be simple to add a small plastic piece on the bow of the boats. Think of a snow plow of sorts.
Sure they'd have to test and retest to get the right angle, etc. (LOL) But perhaps that would allow the water to wash up the boat and then back out infront, similar to how a wave crests at the front of a normal boat.
They could do testing during overnight shift until they get it right and would probably be a simple addition. No downtime at all.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
So what are the scents?????
Monorail_Red_77
Well-Known Member
I'll have to report back here on it as I will hopefully be going to MK this Saturday. Off hand, the one that comes to mind is the ember smell at the burning town scene.
Any others, well. There is the non-Disney approved BO smell. They use it heavily on the Disney Buses, Monorails and sometimes in the Central Hub area. I have also noticed it in many a queue. It really adds to the thematic immersion. Makes you feel like you are in an authentic Floridian Theme Park during Summer with no breeze and a few thousand fellow humans close-by.
LOL
French Quarter
Well-Known Member
Thank you. The fat-shaming is ridiculous. The average weight of guests hasn't significantly increased from the time the new boats went in until now.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The new design most definitely had to be different so as to handle a heavier load.