Also Disneyland Paris' show doesn't have substantial fireworks because they are not allowed to due to noise restrictions, DLP has never had fireworks like WDW except for approved holidays. MK does not have those kind of restrictions so to say the show wouldn't be any good at MK has no basis.
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Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom
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MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I was referring to the trees in front of the castle that were removed a long time ago, didn't see the ones recently removed. Even given those however, tree removal is never a good indication of imminent work about to be done for a new attraction. We've gone through enough of that to know better than to jump to that conclusion. They recently removed some trees in front of the TTC, but you're not going to present a decent argument that it was to make way for something else. Same goes for the Poly lobby decoration.
I care about the current state of affairs at WDW, you seem to have read my comment incorrectly. I said it's hard to care about new developments at WDW given the state of affairs. I care immensely about those affairs given how they impact said projects, i want the affairs to improve so it's actually possible to get excited about future developments at the parks without the inevitability of severe disappointment as has been the case for the past 20 years now.
I am aware of those limitations. WDW doesn't need those restrictions for fireworks to still be in danger of removal. The basis of budget cuts and "fire hazards" are more than adequate enough excuses for Orlando management to cut fireworks and try to go towards a predominantly projection based show. Fantasyland attractions at both Disneyland AND WDW have caught on fire due to fireworks in the past couple of years (said to be due to improper weather monitoring granted, but they're hardly going to own up to such mistakes and are instead more likely to cut the entertainment outright). I've little doubt that TDO and their lawyers would jump at the excuse to remove fireworks from the parks, it's worrisome.
Your demagoguery is ridiculous. The shows at Disneyland are cancelled all the time because of the Santa Ana Freeway being right next to the park and the WDW execs never EVER want the fireworks cancelled because the huge crowds of people all spent a ton of money to be there, do you seriously think they want that many people wanting refunds? Hence why they seem to be fine with setting rides on fire as long as they can get them open again quickly. Fireworks aren't going away at WDW they make a ton of money off of keeping people in the park buying concessions and merchandise.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I'm not claiming fireworks are leaving (i'd hope they don't). But at this point it wouldn't even surprise me. We've lost bigger things than fireworks in the past 20 years, and recent events with fires give TDO even more fuel to justify removing them. I don't think Disney cares much about a few people complaining when they think they can just replace those people with new customers with lower standards who don't give a ****.
HOWEVER, that does not mean we'd get a Dreams like show either. It was turned down because of cost, i'm assuming the cost of altering the moat to support water jets and whatever pyro equipment would have been needed. As such, WDW instead opted for the cheaper projection show currently playing. I'm sure TDO isn't satisfied with either choice they might have, continuing a fireworks show OR investing in the infrastructure for a Dreams show. I'm sure they'd rather just continue the current projection show than either other option, and i'm almost worried that may end up happening. The budget for River of Light at AK was reportedly mutilated, so that it's now described as a small and lesser Bellagio fountain type show in contrast to its more ambitious original form pre cuts.
We have rumors that Wishes may be replaced in the next couple of years. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen. But we know literally nothing about such a show, and there's no reason to assume the trees discussed were removed for this purpose. Again trees have been removed constantly for the past 20 years, the vast majority having no purpose for being removed whatsoever (beyond management not wanting to continue their upkeep that is). Heck the trees being discussed on post #5379, the ones i assume you are harping about, weren't even in the way of anything.
HOWEVER, that does not mean we'd get a Dreams like show either. It was turned down because of cost, i'm assuming the cost of altering the moat to support water jets and whatever pyro equipment would have been needed. As such, WDW instead opted for the cheaper projection show currently playing. I'm sure TDO isn't satisfied with either choice they might have, continuing a fireworks show OR investing in the infrastructure for a Dreams show. I'm sure they'd rather just continue the current projection show than either other option, and i'm almost worried that may end up happening. The budget for River of Light at AK was reportedly mutilated, so that it's now described as a small and lesser Bellagio fountain type show in contrast to its more ambitious original form pre cuts.
We have rumors that Wishes may be replaced in the next couple of years. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen. But we know literally nothing about such a show, and there's no reason to assume the trees discussed were removed for this purpose. Again trees have been removed constantly for the past 20 years, the vast majority having no purpose for being removed whatsoever (beyond management not wanting to continue their upkeep that is). Heck the trees being discussed on post #5379, the ones i assume you are harping about, weren't even in the way of anything.
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OK you have no idea what you're talking about. You clearly don't know anything about Rivers of Light, it's definitely not a small and lesser Bellagio show. WDW did not "opt for a cheaper projection show" Disney did what lots of companies do and tested the technology at another park first, similar to how Cedar Fair tested Top Thrill Dragster by building Xcelerator first at Knotts Berry Farm, sometimes that's how these things work out. Disney's strategy is to grow attendance and revenues a bit every year, not just build everything all at once, and their strategy seems to be working. I can guarantee you when Avatar is getting ready to open and all the walls are down at Disney Springs you are going to see tons of walls going up at DHS. You can call that whatever you want but the market calls this strategic planning, you don't just do all your expansions all at once.
You either believe everything you read on the internet or are just making things up.
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Umm, I took the pictures. My point was one of perspective. Depending on where you take a picture, it can look barren, or it can look lush. The hub in WDW is the same at the moment. I agree that they could have planted bigger trees right away. We'll have to wait and see what the completely finished project looks like later this year.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Take it up with whylightbulb, he's the one who confirmed RoL's budget was mutilated and made the direct comparison to a smaller/lesser Bellagio fountain show, the budget cut news was also corroborated by both WDW1974 and marni1971 as well, so legit people have confirmed the truth of the matter.
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...stake-in-20-years.885865/page-46#post-6183458
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...ys-animal-kingdom.875251/page-45#post-6467070
And i can't recall whether it was @marni1971 or @Lee (it may have been someone else but i thought it was one of them) who mentioned that some variant of Dreams was pitched but turned down by WDW leadership. It wasn't because they wanted to test out the new tech at a different park though, digitally mapped projections and colored water fountains aren't new tech, nor is pyro. The cited reason was cost. I trust these individuals' words, they consistently post accurate information and have long since earned the forum's benefit of the doubt (most of the trolls like Jimmy Thick have even left and stopped trying to annoy them).
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...stake-in-20-years.885865/page-46#post-6183458
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...ys-animal-kingdom.875251/page-45#post-6467070
And i can't recall whether it was @marni1971 or @Lee (it may have been someone else but i thought it was one of them) who mentioned that some variant of Dreams was pitched but turned down by WDW leadership. It wasn't because they wanted to test out the new tech at a different park though, digitally mapped projections and colored water fountains aren't new tech, nor is pyro. The cited reason was cost. I trust these individuals' words, they consistently post accurate information and have long since earned the forum's benefit of the doubt (most of the trolls like Jimmy Thick have even left and stopped trying to annoy them).
OK so then why are they going about getting ready for it now? And if Rivers of Light is just fountains with a few water screens then why are there large physical objects floating on the lagoon in the (recent) plans for it?
Once again, you don't know what you're talking about.
Monorail_Red_77
Well-Known Member
I don't see what the big deal is about the fire dangers that is going on here lately at the MK. They have had for some time now a water sprinkler system ontop of the Colombia Harbour House that wets the wood shingles due to the close proximity to the fireworks that launch from either side of the castle. I can only assume that when the fires happened over the ariel ride and seven dwarfs ride, that they were caught off guard, or it was a cost thing. However, the solution is quite simple. All that they would need to do is install the same water sprinkler type system over each of those buildings. Boom, problem solved. Although I'm sure that some accounting type person said ahh, we only had two small fires there, no need to spend more money on a sprinkler system.
By the way, it took me a few trips to figure out why there would always be water in the area in front of Village Hause. Then I spotted the sprinklers going off on the roof at the same time Wishes was happening.
I'm sure though the project that would normally be around $1,000.00 or so, would be inflated to $40,000.00 or more with all of the research, engineering, consulting, etc.
By the way, it took me a few trips to figure out why there would always be water in the area in front of Village Hause. Then I spotted the sprinklers going off on the roof at the same time Wishes was happening.
I'm sure though the project that would normally be around $1,000.00 or so, would be inflated to $40,000.00 or more with all of the research, engineering, consulting, etc.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Fountains generally are large physical objects genius, especially in RoL's case being likely somewhat different and more modular than WoC's fountains. The general idea seems to be that the fountains and mist projections will be on movable barges of some sort likely similar to Illuminations (newer jet and lighting tech though). DCA's water is apparently filtered and kept clean enough so the fountain hardware can remain there permanently. AK's water is basically swamp water though, unfiltered and absolutely filthy. It looks like they won't be installing the fountains inside the river in a permanent manner.
And getting ready for what? They've never needed any good reason to remove trees all across property, why would you automatically assume it's prep work for something new? So be it if that were the case, but where's your evidence?
Monorail_Red_77
Well-Known Member
I can see this going on in a board room somewhere on WDW property.
We have removed some trees to see if guests notice. Not because we need to, but because we can. Hey while we are at it lets put in some nice mulch and little flowers. Then in a few decades lets put in some small shrubs and saplings. You know to give 'em some hope.
(Board Room erupts in laughter)
It's all smoke and mirrors.
We have removed some trees to see if guests notice. Not because we need to, but because we can. Hey while we are at it lets put in some nice mulch and little flowers. Then in a few decades lets put in some small shrubs and saplings. You know to give 'em some hope.
(Board Room erupts in laughter)
It's all smoke and mirrors.
This has been discussed here since 2011 when a MK show using the combined tech of Dreams and Remember was dropped.
No need to be rude. The topics you mention have been discussed before.
Monorail_Red_77
Well-Known Member
As for the trees on the north west side of the castle on the north side of the moat along the east-west bypass trail.
Some exec tours the hub progress and talks with a contractor on the side. I think it went something like this.
Exec: Hey, you there. See those trees there.
Contractor: Um, yeah..?
Exec: Well we need to get this project done real quick like.
Contractor: Um, ok...?
Exec: So lets take out those big trees and put some tiny ones in. You know incase we need to do some work there with this project. Then we won't have to take out some big trees then.
Contractor: Errr, ok boss....?
Exec: Plus it will look new and fresh, like we just did something there.
Some exec tours the hub progress and talks with a contractor on the side. I think it went something like this.
Exec: Hey, you there. See those trees there.
Contractor: Um, yeah..?
Exec: Well we need to get this project done real quick like.
Contractor: Um, ok...?
Exec: So lets take out those big trees and put some tiny ones in. You know incase we need to do some work there with this project. Then we won't have to take out some big trees then.
Contractor: Errr, ok boss....?
Exec: Plus it will look new and fresh, like we just did something there.
NormC
Well-Known Member
If you have more information that can be backed up please share it.
Sage of Time
Well-Known Member
Gotcha. My apologies. And yeah, DL's hub mostly looks lush. Agreed on the WDW Hub.
Sage of Time
Well-Known Member
What tech from Remember did they want to use?
peter11435
Well-Known Member
That's really nothing new though. Small (and sometimes not so small) fires have occurred as part of the fireworks for decades. The castle, parts of Main Street, liberty square, fantasyland, the woods behind the park and several other locations have all fell victim. The fires are not a new thing they are just more well known now due to social media and the internet.
An updated Tink rig.
It was sold to me as Tink rig, flame jets, fountains, syncrolights and projections combined with a new castle lighting package. They installed the latter two.