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Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom
- Thread starter wdwmagic
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- magic kingdom
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Does anyone have a pic of the MK hub from the 1940s? That would help me compare lushness.
Brian
Well-Known Member
note2001
Well-Known Member
Some time after the 40s, but still should be comparable:
or do you mean before they razed the land:
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
People need to stop their whining. There you clearly have a picture of Walt in the Magic Kingdom around opening day with no trees. This confirms that Walt envisioned our current hub back in the 1940s.Some time after the 40s, but still should be comparable:
or do you mean before they razed the land:
The area around Bay Lake shown below still is largely wilderness. Soon with a teepee or 16 apparently. Betcha those were part of Walt's master plan, too.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
There was a bit of sarcasm in it, but, the point was that everyone is complaining about the removal of nature (or natural foliage as said by some). The point is that there was nothing there in the 1940's. (maybe some orange trees) Anything that has existed in either Disneyland or WDW was placed there by Disney, it didn't grow there naturally. It was there for show. The show has changed! They took the old curtain down and replaced it with a new different one. Is there ever going to be a time when all of us run out of material to build mountains out of molehills.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming this is a zoom in of a protein spill outside Plaza Ice Cream Parlor. I feel like I can see that common mix of Edy's ice cream with gastric juice. Mint chocolate chip?
danlb_2000
Premium Member
No, that as an aerial view from 1947 of where Magic Kingdom was eventually built. Hub would be roughly near the center of that picture.
http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00071773/0000...64366913,28.41767354366791,-81.57942473888397
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
And...... ???????? New York City was basically a forest at one time. What possible relevance does that have to WDW, a man made attraction in the middle of a Florida Swamp and Pasture land. Should there be cattle grazing there as well since they once were there?
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
I know lol. Although thanks for the more explicit description of the view. Unfortunately, I think this all just a case of Disney appealing to the masses. And the masses want unobstructed views of the shows in front of, on, and above the Castle. The average guest books a WDW vacation for things like fireworks, not trees. That isn't to say it is unexpected that those of us who have gone to WDW for decades are wistful of the changes. Those feelings are stirred any time anything changes.
Personally, I think a lot of these feelings would dissipate if there were some new entertainment at night in the MK to give it a reason. It would for me. I would assume that this project is the reason our new fireworks show is rumored for 2016.
Last edited:
danlb_2000
Premium Member
And nothing, he asked for "pic of the MK hub from the 1940" and I provided it. Not trying to make a point.
That isn't really the hub, more the area in front of the castle. The actual hub is behind the photographer.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
I see a hidden Mickey.Some time after the 40s, but still should be comparable:
or do you mean before they razed the land:
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
Rightblock's essay:
"“The Place Will Get More Beautiful Each Year”
Preserving and Restoring the Sublime Beauty of the Walt Disney World Theme Parks
Walt Disney World is a place that inspires and enlightens, so much so that visits to Walt Disney World typically refresh and invigorate guests. This is the result of the expertise and efforts of thousands of Disney cast members, be they Imagineers who dream and design, helpful front desk clerks who greet guests at the resorts, or skilled landscapers who trim and manicure the acres of land that Walt and his brother Roy worked so hard to acquire.
It is easy, then, to understand why many guests become sentimentally attached to attractions, shops, and resorts. But Disney parks are not museums; they are living, breathing entities that, in Walt’s own words, will never be complete “as long as there is imagination left in the world.” But Walt is also quoted as saying, “even the trees will grow; the place will get more beautiful each year.” Quiet areas of understated beauty make Disney parks unique; these fantastic vistas live on in the imaginations of guests long after they return home.
Every structure, every planting, every color at Disney theme parks is chosen with careful deliberation by the talented artists at Imagineering. In his book Designing Disney, John Hench writes that “Imagineers carefully select images essential to each story [they] want to tell in a Disney park.” Disney guests “engage in a special world of story” when they enter the parks; they feel immersed “within the special world that [Imagineering] created” (Hench 30). No place is that more evident than in the Magic Kingdom where subtle visual clues lead to smooth transitions from one fantatic land to another.
Imagine, then, the shock of a "hubless" Magic Kingdom. Walt Disney felt that Disneyland’s Hub gave “people a lot of space” and “a sense of orientation.” Imagineers conceived the Hub as a “design solution to accommodate guests’ decision making” (Hench 37). That leafy oasis of shade surrounded by inviting park benches offered tantalizing views into the other lands of the Magic Kingdom. It also provided a gathering place complete with ample seating and much needed shade. “Just like Walt did,” the Imagineer “assumes the guests’ point of view . . . tak[ing] the guests’ interests to heart and defend[ing] them when others didn’t think that it mattered” (Hench 20). The Hub in its original form fulfilled this promise.
A 1982 souvenir book entitled Walt Disney World: The First Decade devotes three pages to what it calls “the miracle of the Hub.” What is so special about this area of the Park? In addition to the practicality of providing “easy access to all areas of the Magic Kingdom,” the Hub provides a “sense of continuity” (27). The goal of the Imagineers was to ensure that “all the elements within a land work together to create a smooth and constant chain of events” (27); this was provided by the greenery of the Hub, a visual break making transitions into each land smooth and seamless.
It's one thing to change and update attractions; it's quite another to physically alter the original design and integrity of the park itself. Now, in the Magic Kingdom of all places, the “visual details disagree” so “guests experience active clutter” (79). The neon lights of Tomorrowland are now clearly visible from the Liberty Square riverboat landing; the angular buildings of Tomorrowland restaurants are too visible from Main Street and Fantasyland. Worst of all, the actual perspective of Main Street is ruined. The hub provided a leafy transition from turn-of-the-century Main Street to a fairy tale castle. The “forced perspective [of Main Street], combined with the depth of the Hub beyond the end of the street, opens up a vast and exhilarating vista to the guest entering the park” (The Imagineering Field Guide ot the Magic Kingdom). Without those trees, Main Street looks much smaller; the castle loses much of its mystique and allure. It literally feels as if the castle has been pulled towards the front of the park. Instead of a far away portal to a land of enchantment, it's been reduced to an immense stone structure from Europe plopped down at the end of a very American street. This “mixed message sets up conflicts [and] creates tension” (Hench 79); the sense of balance and proportion is so altered that approaching this lovely castle is no longer inviting or suspenseful.
John Hench believed that “in order to communicate story and character . . . we must always consider the elements of space and time: the spaces through which our guests travel within and between attractions, and the time it takes to do this” (5). The loss of the hub violates the time-honored hallmark of Imagineering design that “each land relates to others in a noncompetitive way - contradictions that would intrude upon what the story seeks to communicate [are] studiously avoided” (WDW: The First Decade 27). The “distant lands of adventure, America’s past, fantasy, and the future” no longer seem so distant.
There is no valid excuse for the removal of the Hub at Walt Disney World’s Magic Kingdom; this travesty mars one of the most famous, most recognizable, most beloved streets in the world. The entire Hub must be replaced, complete with stone benches, lush green grass, flowers, and mature trees with twinkling lights.
It seems that some things should remain immutable in this crazy, upside down world where the only constant is change. There are some places, like National Parks, historical monuments, fairy-tale castles, and Disney imagineered landscapes that ought to be protected from the vagaries and fashions of the marketing plans of a disposable culture.
The power of the Disney parks to move and inspire cannot be underestimated: What other man-made structures pull at the heartstrings of so many people worldwide as those created by Disney? The Magic Kingdom’s signature Hub must be restored to its original warmth and integrity in order to fulfill Walt’s vision of parks that grow more beautiful with each passing year."
"“The Place Will Get More Beautiful Each Year”
Preserving and Restoring the Sublime Beauty of the Walt Disney World Theme Parks
Walt Disney World is a place that inspires and enlightens, so much so that visits to Walt Disney World typically refresh and invigorate guests. This is the result of the expertise and efforts of thousands of Disney cast members, be they Imagineers who dream and design, helpful front desk clerks who greet guests at the resorts, or skilled landscapers who trim and manicure the acres of land that Walt and his brother Roy worked so hard to acquire.
It is easy, then, to understand why many guests become sentimentally attached to attractions, shops, and resorts. But Disney parks are not museums; they are living, breathing entities that, in Walt’s own words, will never be complete “as long as there is imagination left in the world.” But Walt is also quoted as saying, “even the trees will grow; the place will get more beautiful each year.” Quiet areas of understated beauty make Disney parks unique; these fantastic vistas live on in the imaginations of guests long after they return home.
Every structure, every planting, every color at Disney theme parks is chosen with careful deliberation by the talented artists at Imagineering. In his book Designing Disney, John Hench writes that “Imagineers carefully select images essential to each story [they] want to tell in a Disney park.” Disney guests “engage in a special world of story” when they enter the parks; they feel immersed “within the special world that [Imagineering] created” (Hench 30). No place is that more evident than in the Magic Kingdom where subtle visual clues lead to smooth transitions from one fantatic land to another.
Imagine, then, the shock of a "hubless" Magic Kingdom. Walt Disney felt that Disneyland’s Hub gave “people a lot of space” and “a sense of orientation.” Imagineers conceived the Hub as a “design solution to accommodate guests’ decision making” (Hench 37). That leafy oasis of shade surrounded by inviting park benches offered tantalizing views into the other lands of the Magic Kingdom. It also provided a gathering place complete with ample seating and much needed shade. “Just like Walt did,” the Imagineer “assumes the guests’ point of view . . . tak[ing] the guests’ interests to heart and defend[ing] them when others didn’t think that it mattered” (Hench 20). The Hub in its original form fulfilled this promise.
A 1982 souvenir book entitled Walt Disney World: The First Decade devotes three pages to what it calls “the miracle of the Hub.” What is so special about this area of the Park? In addition to the practicality of providing “easy access to all areas of the Magic Kingdom,” the Hub provides a “sense of continuity” (27). The goal of the Imagineers was to ensure that “all the elements within a land work together to create a smooth and constant chain of events” (27); this was provided by the greenery of the Hub, a visual break making transitions into each land smooth and seamless.
It's one thing to change and update attractions; it's quite another to physically alter the original design and integrity of the park itself. Now, in the Magic Kingdom of all places, the “visual details disagree” so “guests experience active clutter” (79). The neon lights of Tomorrowland are now clearly visible from the Liberty Square riverboat landing; the angular buildings of Tomorrowland restaurants are too visible from Main Street and Fantasyland. Worst of all, the actual perspective of Main Street is ruined. The hub provided a leafy transition from turn-of-the-century Main Street to a fairy tale castle. The “forced perspective [of Main Street], combined with the depth of the Hub beyond the end of the street, opens up a vast and exhilarating vista to the guest entering the park” (The Imagineering Field Guide ot the Magic Kingdom). Without those trees, Main Street looks much smaller; the castle loses much of its mystique and allure. It literally feels as if the castle has been pulled towards the front of the park. Instead of a far away portal to a land of enchantment, it's been reduced to an immense stone structure from Europe plopped down at the end of a very American street. This “mixed message sets up conflicts [and] creates tension” (Hench 79); the sense of balance and proportion is so altered that approaching this lovely castle is no longer inviting or suspenseful.
John Hench believed that “in order to communicate story and character . . . we must always consider the elements of space and time: the spaces through which our guests travel within and between attractions, and the time it takes to do this” (5). The loss of the hub violates the time-honored hallmark of Imagineering design that “each land relates to others in a noncompetitive way - contradictions that would intrude upon what the story seeks to communicate [are] studiously avoided” (WDW: The First Decade 27). The “distant lands of adventure, America’s past, fantasy, and the future” no longer seem so distant.
There is no valid excuse for the removal of the Hub at Walt Disney World’s Magic Kingdom; this travesty mars one of the most famous, most recognizable, most beloved streets in the world. The entire Hub must be replaced, complete with stone benches, lush green grass, flowers, and mature trees with twinkling lights.
It seems that some things should remain immutable in this crazy, upside down world where the only constant is change. There are some places, like National Parks, historical monuments, fairy-tale castles, and Disney imagineered landscapes that ought to be protected from the vagaries and fashions of the marketing plans of a disposable culture.
The power of the Disney parks to move and inspire cannot be underestimated: What other man-made structures pull at the heartstrings of so many people worldwide as those created by Disney? The Magic Kingdom’s signature Hub must be restored to its original warmth and integrity in order to fulfill Walt’s vision of parks that grow more beautiful with each passing year."
RandomPrincess
Keep Moving Forward
Found all the trees....they are at DCA. They are planting a whole forest as Condor Flats becomes Grizzly Peak Airfield.
Feb.
Now
Feb.
Now
Sage of Time
Well-Known Member
The DL trees have been planted and replanted a few times. Whenever they get replaced, it's not with saplings, like in WDW.
And concrete wasteland?! Have you been to Disneyland?! If you took that picture you'd know that you're basically standing next to two trees to get that picture.
Zweiland
Well-Known Member
What. Just... What.Found all the trees....they are at DCA. They are planting a whole forest as Condor Flats becomes Grizzly Peak Airfield.
Feb.
Now
I checked in on that project recently and it was still relatively barren. My mind can't comprehend that rate of work by Disney.
It looks great, too.
So if it turns out all this construction is for a Disney Dreams-like show and you end up with your foot in your mouth then what?