Main Street Fountain Removal

peter11435

Well-Known Member
Advertisement
What about the former fountain by the old Walt Disney Story entrance?
Still a planter. And just like the Adventureland fountains it's a result of lacking an adequate water recirculation system.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Am I wrong to find it amusing how something as simple as this can set people off?
If it's the little things that make Disney, then by removing the little things a park ceases being Disney, bit by bit.


There are fans rave who about the details, the gentle touch, the little differences. Until these are removed, at which point they are deemed to have been superfluous all along.


Some customers powerwalk from fast pass to meet&grope. Others saunter about, smelling the roses, feasting their eyes on the visual richness and depth, immersing in the atmosphere. To the first, the paving over of the park-like hub for a concrete superhighway is a blessing, to the second, its a painful destruction.
 
Last edited:

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
If it's the little things that make Disney, then by removing the little things a park ceases being Disney, bit by bit.


There are fans rave about the details, the gentle touch, the little differences. Until these are removed, at which point they are deemed to have been superfluous all along.


Some customers powerwalk from fast pass to meet&grope. Others saunter about, smelling the roses, feasting their eyes on the visual richness and depth, immersing in the atmosphere. To the first, the paving over of the park elements of the hub area for a parking lot is a blessing, to the second, its a painful destruction.
I have always fallen solidly in the second category, Sure I've always enjoyed the rides but rides to me have always been part of the experience not the totality of the experience. I enjoyed the small details as much as the rides as having an artistic bent myself it was always a joy to see the small details
 

HauntedPirate

Sheltered-at-home Park nostalgist
Premium Member
This is something that happens over time. You start out bolting from one ride/attraction to another, trying to get to everything. Eventually, you start slowing down and taking in all the details, the things you missed previously or maybe noticed but didn't really appreciate. How many first-time guests take the time to look at the windows above Main Street, or know that Walt Disney has two windows dedicated to him? Most don't, and that's ok. But it's taking in things, like the fountains, the background music, the architecture, the curves, the walkways, the effective usage of forced perspective, the little nooks and crannies... The wonder of seeing something designed and built almost 50 years ago still standing, still truly relevant and timeless (and not in the way that talking heads like Bob Chapek use those words), despite the years of neglect and current "profit margin over all else" directive from management. That's when you realize what makes the place special - Those little things, the often incredible details, the level of skill and care that went in to every part of these theme parks when they were designed and built. They exude what "Disney" used to mean - creative, high quality, and for all guests of all ages. They weren't designed using spreadsheets and business analytics, they were designed by creative engineers who thought ahead and designed and planned for the long term, not the next fiscal year or shareholders meeting.

Sadly, current management and their philosophies don't really seem to care about those details, those little things that make the parks special. They care about how many people they can cram into a space, per guest spending, and up-charge events. Sure, they announce these big spending projects and act like they are the second coming, but that spending comes after years and years of neglecting the parks into the state which they are currently in. Look at what Matt Ouimet did after the Paul Pressler/Cynthia Harriss years at Disneyland. Yes, he was somewhat forced to do much of what he did due to the neglect in the years leading up to his promotion to President of Disneyland, but it doesn't take away from the passion he showed and the amount of care and quality work that was exhibited at DL leading up to the 50th. That sort of passion is what's missing with today's P&R leadership, and dare I say at the top as well. "Being creative" has been replaced by "de-risk" and "cost containment" as the main drivers in the company. Don't create something new that people didn't think they even wanted or would like, give them what they want and what we know will make us money. There are still small pockets of creativity, without a doubt, but they don't shine or stand out like they used to. The name of the game these days seems to be leveraging movie IP and synergy and merchandising. Yes, Walt Disney did some of the same things, but the company was also a creative force, putting out new ideas and pushing the boundaries. Those two things seem impossible in today's Disney.

"Disney" used to stand for something. It wasn't just "a brand" and a name slapped on to billions of items of merchandise. But that's what Bob Iger has transformed it into. Can all this be changed? Possibly, but I think it's unlikely to happen until the focus of the company is taken off of Wall Street and put back on to what made it great to begin with - Creating the quality entertainment for people of all ages it used to, before it started gobbling up companies left, right, and center as its means of growth, instead of growing organically, from within. It's not a sin to make a profit. But when that profit comes at the expense of what makes the profit (aka. "milking the cash cow until it's dry"), that's when a lot of us start disagreeing with the direction of the company and and question the motives of those running it.

So, yes, when some get upset about something as small as a fountain being removed, there's almost always a reason why. I think @KevinYee said it best - It's "declining by degrees".

Disclaimer - No derogatory terms or names were used in the making of this post. Results may vary. The poster is not responsible for any side effects, which may include, but are not limited to: Nostalgia, anger, happiness, sadness, crying, joy, sorrow, and a potential long-term dislike of men named "Bob Iger", "Bob Chapek", "Thomas Staggs", and/or "Jay Rasulo". If you experience any of these side effects, treatment options include: Watching several @marni1971 videos of classic attractions in a row; Looking at old theme park maps/literature and family photos from Walt Disney World from 1971 thru 2000; Listening to Disney theme park audio. We do not recommend ingesting large quantities of "pixie dust", as this may lead to other maladies. We do not recommend visiting Universal Studios Orlando, or visiting Disneyland in California, as these may cause an unsafe rise in blood pressure. All rights reserved. Film at 11.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
This is something that happens over time. You start out bolting from one ride/attraction to another, trying to get to everything. Eventually, you start slowing down and taking in all the details, the things you missed previously or maybe noticed but didn't really appreciate. How many first-time guests take the time to look at the windows above Main Street, or know that Walt Disney has two windows dedicated to him? Most don't, and that's ok. But it's taking in things, like the fountains, the background music, the architecture, the curves, the walkways, the effective usage of forced perspective, the little nooks and crannies... The wonder of seeing something designed and built almost 50 years ago still standing, still truly relevant and timeless (and not in the way that talking heads like Bob Chapek use those words), despite the years of neglect and current "profit margin over all else" directive from management. That's when you realize what makes the place special - Those little things, the often incredible details, the level of skill and care that went in to every part of these theme parks when they were designed and built. They exude what "Disney" used to mean - creative, high quality, and for all guests of all ages. They weren't designed using spreadsheets and business analytics, they were designed by creative engineers who thought ahead and designed and planned for the long term, not the next fiscal year or shareholders meeting.

Sadly, current management and their philosophies don't really seem to care about those details, those little things that make the parks special. They care about how many people they can cram into a space, per guest spending, and up-charge events. Sure, they announce these big spending projects and act like they are the second coming, but that spending comes after years and years of neglecting the parks into the state which they are currently in. Look at what Matt Ouimet did after the Paul Pressler/Cynthia Harriss years at Disneyland. Yes, he was somewhat forced to do much of what he did due to the neglect in the years leading up to his promotion to President of Disneyland, but it doesn't take away from the passion he showed and the amount of care and quality work that was exhibited at DL leading up to the 50th. That sort of passion is what's missing with today's P&R leadership, and dare I say at the top as well. "Being creative" has been replaced by "de-risk" and "cost containment" as the main drivers in the company. Don't create something new that people didn't think they even wanted or would like, give them what they want and what we know will make us money. There are still small pockets of creativity, without a doubt, but they don't shine or stand out like they used to. The name of the game these days seems to be leveraging movie IP and synergy and merchandising. Yes, Walt Disney did some of the same things, but the company was also a creative force, putting out new ideas and pushing the boundaries. Those two things seem impossible in today's Disney.

"Disney" used to stand for something. It wasn't just "a brand" and a name slapped on to billions of items of merchandise. But that's what Bob Iger has transformed it into. Can all this be changed? Possibly, but I think it's unlikely to happen until the focus of the company is taken off of Wall Street and put back on to what made it great to begin with - Creating the quality entertainment for people of all ages it used to, before it started gobbling up companies left, right, and center as its means of growth, instead of growing organically, from within. It's not a sin to make a profit. But when that profit comes at the expense of what makes the profit (aka. "milking the cash cow until it's dry"), that's when a lot of us start disagreeing with the direction of the company and and question the motives of those running it.

So, yes, when some get upset about something as small as a fountain being removed, there's almost always a reason why. I think @KevinYee said it best - It's "declining by degrees".

Disclaimer - No derogatory terms or names were used in the making of this post. Results may vary. The poster is not responsible for any side effects, which may include, but are not limited to: Nostalgia, anger, happiness, sadness, crying, joy, sorrow, and a potential long-term dislike of men named "Bob Iger", "Bob Chapek", "Thomas Staggs", and/or "Jay Rasulo". If you experience any of these side effects, treatment options include: Watching several @marni1971 videos of classic attractions in a row; Looking at old theme park maps/literature and family photos from Walt Disney World from 1971 thru 2000; Listening to Disney theme park audio. We do not recommend ingesting large quantities of "pixie dust", as this may lead to other maladies. We do not recommend visiting Universal Studios Orlando, or visiting Disneyland in California, as these may cause an unsafe rise in blood pressure. All rights reserved. Film at 11.
Sobering reading. And very very well written.
 

donsullivan

Premium Member
It looked like the west bypass was in use last night due to the off the charts crowds in MK last night for HEA. I arrived from Epcot around 8:30 and it was not possible to move up MSUSA, our enter the hub from the East Bypass. While locked in the total gridlock, they made the announcement of MSUSA and Hub being full and watch the show from other places in the park. We ended up turning back and going up to the train station platform to watch HEA. While standing there we saw groups of people coming out into Town Square from the bypass return adjacent to the Firehouse.
 

larryz

Gold Star Duck
Premium Member
It looked like the west bypass was in use last night due to the off the charts crowds in MK last night for HEA. I arrived from Epcot around 8:30 and it was not possible to move up MSUSA, our enter the hub from the East Bypass.
So, any indication that people zooming in from other parks to watch HEA might be the big problem with crowds on Main Street?
 

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
This is something that happens over time. You start out bolting from one ride/attraction to another, trying to get to everything. Eventually, you start slowing down and taking in all the details, the things you missed previously or maybe noticed but didn't really appreciate. How many first-time guests take the time to look at the windows above Main Street, or know that Walt Disney has two windows dedicated to him? Most don't, and that's ok. But it's taking in things, like the fountains, the background music, the architecture, the curves, the walkways, the effective usage of forced perspective, the little nooks and crannies... The wonder of seeing something designed and built almost 50 years ago still standing, still truly relevant and timeless (and not in the way that talking heads like Bob Chapek use those words), despite the years of neglect and current "profit margin over all else" directive from management. That's when you realize what makes the place special - Those little things, the often incredible details, the level of skill and care that went in to every part of these theme parks when they were designed and built. They exude what "Disney" used to mean - creative, high quality, and for all guests of all ages. They weren't designed using spreadsheets and business analytics, they were designed by creative engineers who thought ahead and designed and planned for the long term, not the next fiscal year or shareholders meeting.

Sadly, current management and their philosophies don't really seem to care about those details, those little things that make the parks special. They care about how many people they can cram into a space, per guest spending, and up-charge events. Sure, they announce these big spending projects and act like they are the second coming, but that spending comes after years and years of neglecting the parks into the state which they are currently in. Look at what Matt Ouimet did after the Paul Pressler/Cynthia Harriss years at Disneyland. Yes, he was somewhat forced to do much of what he did due to the neglect in the years leading up to his promotion to President of Disneyland, but it doesn't take away from the passion he showed and the amount of care and quality work that was exhibited at DL leading up to the 50th. That sort of passion is what's missing with today's P&R leadership, and dare I say at the top as well. "Being creative" has been replaced by "de-risk" and "cost containment" as the main drivers in the company. Don't create something new that people didn't think they even wanted or would like, give them what they want and what we know will make us money. There are still small pockets of creativity, without a doubt, but they don't shine or stand out like they used to. The name of the game these days seems to be leveraging movie IP and synergy and merchandising. Yes, Walt Disney did some of the same things, but the company was also a creative force, putting out new ideas and pushing the boundaries. Those two things seem impossible in today's Disney.

"Disney" used to stand for something. It wasn't just "a brand" and a name slapped on to billions of items of merchandise. But that's what Bob Iger has transformed it into. Can all this be changed? Possibly, but I think it's unlikely to happen until the focus of the company is taken off of Wall Street and put back on to what made it great to begin with - Creating the quality entertainment for people of all ages it used to, before it started gobbling up companies left, right, and center as its means of growth, instead of growing organically, from within. It's not a sin to make a profit. But when that profit comes at the expense of what makes the profit (aka. "milking the cash cow until it's dry"), that's when a lot of us start disagreeing with the direction of the company and and question the motives of those running it.

So, yes, when some get upset about something as small as a fountain being removed, there's almost always a reason why. I think @KevinYee said it best - It's "declining by degrees".

Disclaimer - No derogatory terms or names were used in the making of this post. Results may vary. The poster is not responsible for any side effects, which may include, but are not limited to: Nostalgia, anger, happiness, sadness, crying, joy, sorrow, and a potential long-term dislike of men named "Bob Iger", "Bob Chapek", "Thomas Staggs", and/or "Jay Rasulo". If you experience any of these side effects, treatment options include: Watching several @marni1971 videos of classic attractions in a row; Looking at old theme park maps/literature and family photos from Walt Disney World from 1971 thru 2000; Listening to Disney theme park audio. We do not recommend ingesting large quantities of "pixie dust", as this may lead to other maladies. We do not recommend visiting Universal Studios Orlando, or visiting Disneyland in California, as these may cause an unsafe rise in blood pressure. All rights reserved. Film at 11.
Holy...wow. I completely agree with this. It wasn't until a couple years ago where I started slowing down to look at everything. Now I can see how....broke(?) areas of the parks are.

I really like what Matt did with Cedar Point. He turned it from COASTERSCOASTERSCOASTERblehareaCOASTERS to "oh wow the new kids, beach area, resort area, and entrances are freaking great now". It probably brought more people into the park because of the massive improvements across the board than a new coaster.
 

donsullivan

Premium Member
So, any indication that people zooming in from other parks to watch HEA might be the big problem with crowds on Main Street?
I haven't experienced it enough to have any solid perspective on that. To be honest this was only my second time seeing HEA, the first being on opening night in May. However last night, when I arrived at TTC (drove from EC) there was a large surge of people disembarking the Epcot monorail and transitioning directly to the MK monorail and ferry. This was also one of only 2 nights this week that were not party nights so there were limited options for people visiting to actually see HEA this week with MVMCP on TUE, THU and FRI. I'm reasonably confident that was a contributing factor, along with the clear popularity of the show.
 

creathir

Monorail and PeopleMover Fanatic
Premium Member
I haven't experienced it enough to have any solid perspective on that. To be honest this was only my second time seeing HEA, the first being on opening night in May. However last night, when I arrived at TTC (drove from EC) there was a large surge of people disembarking the Epcot monorail and transitioning directly to the MK monorail and ferry. This was also one of only 2 nights this week that were not party nights so there were limited options for people visiting to actually see HEA this week with MVMCP on TUE, THU and FRI. I'm reasonably confident that was a contributing factor, along with the clear popularity of the show.
This happened with my wife and I in October.

The crowd levels sored on days the MK closed for the Halloween party.

It was just about unenjoyable.
 

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
This is something that happens over time. You start out bolting from one ride/attraction to another, trying to get to everything. Eventually, you start slowing down and taking in all the details, the things you missed previously or maybe noticed but didn't really appreciate. How many first-time guests take the time to look at the windows above Main Street, or know that Walt Disney has two windows dedicated to him? Most don't, and that's ok. But it's taking in things, like the fountains, the background music, the architecture, the curves, the walkways, the effective usage of forced perspective, the little nooks and crannies... The wonder of seeing something designed and built almost 50 years ago still standing, still truly relevant and timeless (and not in the way that talking heads like Bob Chapek use those words), despite the years of neglect and current "profit margin over all else" directive from management. That's when you realize what makes the place special - Those little things, the often incredible details, the level of skill and care that went in to every part of these theme parks when they were designed and built. They exude what "Disney" used to mean - creative, high quality, and for all guests of all ages. They weren't designed using spreadsheets and business analytics, they were designed by creative engineers who thought ahead and designed and planned for the long term, not the next fiscal year or shareholders meeting.

Sadly, current management and their philosophies don't really seem to care about those details, those little things that make the parks special. They care about how many people they can cram into a space, per guest spending, and up-charge events. Sure, they announce these big spending projects and act like they are the second coming, but that spending comes after years and years of neglecting the parks into the state which they are currently in. Look at what Matt Ouimet did after the Paul Pressler/Cynthia Harriss years at Disneyland. Yes, he was somewhat forced to do much of what he did due to the neglect in the years leading up to his promotion to President of Disneyland, but it doesn't take away from the passion he showed and the amount of care and quality work that was exhibited at DL leading up to the 50th. That sort of passion is what's missing with today's P&R leadership, and dare I say at the top as well. "Being creative" has been replaced by "de-risk" and "cost containment" as the main drivers in the company. Don't create something new that people didn't think they even wanted or would like, give them what they want and what we know will make us money. There are still small pockets of creativity, without a doubt, but they don't shine or stand out like they used to. The name of the game these days seems to be leveraging movie IP and synergy and merchandising. Yes, Walt Disney did some of the same things, but the company was also a creative force, putting out new ideas and pushing the boundaries. Those two things seem impossible in today's Disney.

"Disney" used to stand for something. It wasn't just "a brand" and a name slapped on to billions of items of merchandise. But that's what Bob Iger has transformed it into. Can all this be changed? Possibly, but I think it's unlikely to happen until the focus of the company is taken off of Wall Street and put back on to what made it great to begin with - Creating the quality entertainment for people of all ages it used to, before it started gobbling up companies left, right, and center as its means of growth, instead of growing organically, from within. It's not a sin to make a profit. But when that profit comes at the expense of what makes the profit (aka. "milking the cash cow until it's dry"), that's when a lot of us start disagreeing with the direction of the company and and question the motives of those running it.

So, yes, when some get upset about something as small as a fountain being removed, there's almost always a reason why. I think @KevinYee said it best - It's "declining by degrees".

Disclaimer - No derogatory terms or names were used in the making of this post. Results may vary. The poster is not responsible for any side effects, which may include, but are not limited to: Nostalgia, anger, happiness, sadness, crying, joy, sorrow, and a potential long-term dislike of men named "Bob Iger", "Bob Chapek", "Thomas Staggs", and/or "Jay Rasulo". If you experience any of these side effects, treatment options include: Watching several @marni1971 videos of classic attractions in a row; Looking at old theme park maps/literature and family photos from Walt Disney World from 1971 thru 2000; Listening to Disney theme park audio. We do not recommend ingesting large quantities of "pixie dust", as this may lead to other maladies. We do not recommend visiting Universal Studios Orlando, or visiting Disneyland in California, as these may cause an unsafe rise in blood pressure. All rights reserved. Film at 11.
I agree with the first bit of this post. You indeed start out running around and then slow down. I also agree that the years of spending come after years of minimal investment. I however disagree that the company isn't creative. Star Wars Land, Cars Land, NFL, PANDORA, etc. are all amazing! Shanghai Disneyland was awesome! I enjoyed every minute of my time there. I was expecting a second rate experience and was dumbfounded by the quality of everything from the food to the customer service (especially) which was (in my opinion) better than DISNEYLAND! You also have to understand that Disney is much bigger than just its parks. It's primary business is movies. And it's doing a stellar job. You have a combination of strong sequels and original content that is awesome. It's media business may be struggling but the injection of Fox will help with that. The streaming services coming will dominate. I think Bob Iger has been the best thing to happen to the company since 1984 with the introduction of Michael Eisner and Frank Wells (Iger has been a much better CEO but they saved the company from the imcompetent leadership of Ron miller and Card Walker (who was yes, incompetent, failing to raise prices for the life of the company)).
 

larryz

Gold Star Duck
Premium Member
I agree with the first bit of this post. You indeed start out running around and then slow down. I also agree that the years of spending come after years of minimal investment. I however disagree that the company isn't creative. Star Wars Land, Cars Land, NFL, PANDORA, etc. are all amazing! Shanghai Disneyland was awesome! I enjoyed every minute of my time there. I was expecting a second rate experience and was dumbfounded by the quality of everything from the food to the customer service (especially) which was (in my opinion) better than DISNEYLAND! You also have to understand that Disney is much bigger than just its parks. It's primary business is movies. And it's doing a stellar job. You have a combination of strong sequels and original content that is awesome. It's media business may be struggling but the injection of Fox will help with that. The streaming services coming will dominate. I think Bob Iger has been the best thing to happen to the company since 1984 with the introduction of Michael Eisner and Frank Wells (Iger has been a much better CEO but they saved the company from the imcompetent leadership of Ron miller and Card Walker (who was yes, incompetent, failing to raise prices for the life of the company)).
Thank you, Mrs Iger... ;)
 

donsullivan

Premium Member
This happened with my wife and I in October.

The crowd levels sored on days the MK closed for the Halloween party.

It was just about unenjoyable.
The experience I had on Wednesday was a non-MVMCP night. I figured the crowd surge was because it was one of only 2 nights that HEA was being presented for the week.
 

creathir

Monorail and PeopleMover Fanatic
Premium Member
The experience I had on Wednesday was a non-MVMCP night. I figured the crowd surge was because it was one of only 2 nights that HEA was being presented for the week.
Sorry, typo in my post.

It was packed on days without a party, the non-party days.

Saturday was the worst, because it was a non party day, food and wine was going on, and it was the edge of the fall break for many schools.

Literally the busiest I’ve ever seen the parks, of course I avoid Christmas - New Years so....
 

Walt d

Well-Known Member
I did consider it a quiet spot. When I would meet people at the park it was there that we got together. The restrooms are/were some of the best in the park and there was always a seat on the Casey's overflow tables. Even had a payphone! Most people never knew the restrooms were there.
Yes thats my fast bathroom spot, when waiting on main street near a tree next to caseys for the after noon parade, your in the shade there, lets hope they dont get rid of that too.
 
Top Bottom