Live-Action ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’

[AdventureHasAName]

You said Disney hates people with traditional family values.

I most certainly did not.

Since I appear to have misunderstood you, could you please clarify what you were saying?

I said there is a group of activist creatives inbeded in Disney who hate people with "traditional" family values (however they define it that day). They don't represent the entire company (although they are growing) and they don't affect every film (or tv show, or theme park attraction) the company produces. But when one or more of them is in control of a project, you can tell immediately; a lot of the time, they are delighted to tell you outright (this Snow White disaster, the Acolyte, etc).

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Is their social ideology different from mine?

If you fall into most of those categories ... and you said you do (I have no idea if they do or they don't because I know nothing about you other than what you volunteer) ... then yes, I assume it is.

 

[LittleBuford]

I said there is a group of activist creatives inbeded in Disney who hate people with "traditional" family values (however they define it that day). They don't represent the entire company (although they are growing) and they don't affect every film (or tv show, or theme park attraction) the company produces. But when one or more of them is in control of a project, you can tell immediately; a lot of the time, they are delighted to tell you outright (this Snow White disaster, the Acolyte, etc).

In what way does The Acolyte reveal the hand of a creative who hates people with "traditional" family values?

 

[AdventureHasAName]

In what way does The Acolyte reveal the hand of a creative who hates people with "traditional" family values?

The director has been very vocal about how "gay" (her word, not mine) it is. And the lead actress is clearly an activist. I haven't watched the show (and don't intend to; fool me twice, shame on me) - this has come directly from the individuals themselves in interviews and social media.

Lesbian Leslye Headland Brings a Queer Lens to Star Wars Franchise

She'll be serving as writer, executive producer, and showrunner of The Acolyte, a new series coming to Disney+ soon.

www.advocate.com

"In the same way that the original Star Wars film, A New Hope, is about a young man living in Modesto, Calif., who doesn't want to take over his dad's hardware store... there's just no way that me being a queer woman is not going to be reflected in my work. I could try not to do it, but why would I? It just feels like a natural extension of what I do."

No matter what characters are in her stories, all of them are about being queer in some way. "I think that because storytelling, at its core, is always going to come down to either the personal or emotional through-line to your characters, your identity is important. And like I said, mine is just going to be in my work, whether I'm explicitly dealing with it or not, it's always going to be there."

 

[lazyboy97o]

Some social ideologies deserve scorn.

 

[LittleBuford]

The director has been very vocal about how "gay" (her word, not mine) it is.

It's not a dirty word. I'm gay. And my family values are fairly traditional.

I haven't watched the show (and don't intend to; fool me twice, shame on me)

The loudest pronouncements in these threads tend to come from those with the least experience of the things they're speaking about with such authority.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Some social ideologies deserve scorn.

Agreed.

 

[Chi84]

The director has been very vocal about how "gay" (her word, not mine) it is. And the lead actress is clearly an activist. I haven't watched the show (and don't intend to; fool me twice, shame on me) - this has come directly from the individuals themselves in interviews and social media.

Lesbian Leslye Headland Brings a Queer Lens to Star Wars Franchise

She'll be serving as writer, executive producer, and showrunner of The Acolyte, a new series coming to Disney+ soon.

www.advocate.com

"In the same way that the original Star Wars film, A New Hope, is about a young man living in Modesto, Calif., who doesn't want to take over his dad's hardware store... there's just no way that me being a queer woman is not going to be reflected in my work. I could try not to do it, but why would I? It just feels like a natural extension of what I do."

No matter what characters are in her stories, all of them are about being queer in some way. "I think that because storytelling, at its core, is always going to come down to either the personal or emotional through-line to your characters, your identity is important. And like I said, mine is just going to be in my work, whether I'm explicitly dealing with it or not, it's always going to be there."

I’m not seeing the problem. How are these people showing hate for me?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Agreed.

So it’s okay for you to do it but not others? Just like certain types of people are supposed to be in charge? Boy that’s interesting.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

So it’s okay for you to do it but not others? Just like certain types of people are supposed to be in charge? Boy that’s interesting.

I, of course, am not usurping decades-old popular media in hopes of changing it to a form so those that popularized it will no longer enjoy it.

It would be no different than I becoming director of a new My Little Pony show and then producing a show designed to infuse six year-old girls with patriarchal ideology. Everyone would look around and say, "That's stupid at best and destructive at worst" (and it would be).

"This is the most masculine My Little Pony ever. Yes, I realize that My Little Pony has never really been about traditional masculinity and the merits of partriarchal society, but I'm a guy with traditional values. I can't separate what I am from the media I produce."

 

[lazyboy97o]

I, of course, am not usurping decades-old popular media in hopes of changing it to a form so those that popularized it will no longer enjoy it.

It would be no different than I becoming director of a new My Little Pony show and then producing a show designed to infuse six year-old girls with patriarchal ideology. Everyone would look around and say, "That's stupid at best and destructive at worst" (and it would be).

"This is the most masculine My Little Pony ever. Yes, I realize that My Little Pony has never really been about traditional masculinity and the merits of partriarchal society, but I'm a guy with traditional values. I can't separate what I am from the media I produce."

Awful things don’t deserve deference because they are old.

 

[networkpro]

I would hazard that the current crop of directors they use are the result of cost cutting. They're bringing in lesser talent for lesser price points, but unfortunately they lack the experience or ability to control where those budgeted dollars are being spent in their projects.

 

[BrianLo]

The director has been very vocal about how "gay" (her word, not mine) it is. And the lead actress is clearly an activist. I haven't watched the show (and don't intend to; fool me twice, shame on me) - this has come directly from the individuals themselves in interviews and social media.

Lesbian Leslye Headland Brings a Queer Lens to Star Wars Franchise

She'll be serving as writer, executive producer, and showrunner of The Acolyte, a new series coming to Disney+ soon.

www.advocate.com

"In the same way that the original Star Wars film, A New Hope, is about a young man living in Modesto, Calif., who doesn't want to take over his dad's hardware store... there's just no way that me being a queer woman is not going to be reflected in my work. I could try not to do it, but why would I? It just feels like a natural extension of what I do."

No matter what characters are in her stories, all of them are about being queer in some way. "I think that because storytelling, at its core, is always going to come down to either the personal or emotional through-line to your characters, your identity is important. And like I said, mine is just going to be in my work, whether I'm explicitly dealing with it or not, it's always going to be there."

There is quite literally nothing hateful in this commentary. There’s no scorn for George. She’s saying she’ll imbue her work with her much in the way he did with his.

Might I suggest if you are finding these things hateful, perhaps it’s flowing the opposite way of what you think it is?

Representation is not hate, in fact, it’s quite literally the opposite.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Might I suggest if you are finding these things hateful, perhaps it’s flowing the opposite way of what you think it is?

You can suggest anything you want. And I can disagree with you.

 

[BrianLo]

I’m really getting the impressions this is all a manufactured martyrdom. I see no contempt from the company. I see no hatred from the actresses.

Societally I just don’t get it. Other than maybe social media invents controversies and we’re all slowly bathed in it until it seems actually real and concrete, when it never was.

In fact, what I see is someone of half Latin ancestory who was ripped apart for being casted from the drop and had a very positive response. As the internet loves to do.

Never in a million years did I imagine that this would be a possibility for me. You don't normally see Snow Whites that are of Latin descent. Even though Snow White is really a big deal in Spanish-speaking countries. Blanca Nieves is a huge icon whether you're talking about the Disney cartoon or just different iterations and the Grimm fairy tale and all the stories that come with it. But you don't particularly see people who look like me or are me playing roles like that. When it was announced, it was a huge thing that was trending on Twitter for days, because all of the people were angry. We need to love them in the right direction. At the end of the day, I have a job to do that I am really excited to do. I get to be a Latina princess.


And if someone’s natural response to this is hoping the actress is forever more out of work, well I think I know what the source of the hate is.

No, I don’t think feeling the movie was scary as a child or the princess/prince dynamic is creepy from a modern viewing lens is hateful. That’s merely an opinion, one for which people are super free to agree or disagree with. It barely registers as even a controversial opinion. It’s no real secret Snow White’s age doesn’t really hold up well for a modern retelling.

 

[Chi84]

I, of course, am not usurping decades-old popular media in hopes of changing it to a form so those that popularized it will no longer enjoy it.

It would be no different than I becoming director of a new My Little Pony show and then producing a show designed to infuse six year-old girls with patriarchal ideology. Everyone would look around and say, "That's stupid at best and destructive at worst" (and it would be).

"This is the most masculine My Little Pony ever. Yes, I realize that My Little Pony has never really been about traditional masculinity and the merits of partriarchal society, but I'm a guy with traditional values. I can't separate what I am from the media I produce."

This is the second time you mentioned patriarchal, which is an unusual term outside of sociology discussions.

Do you have a particular problem with our society moving away from this? Most people I know aren’t really bothered so much.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

This is the second time you mentioned patriarchal, which is an unusual term outside of sociology discussions.

Do you have a particular problem with our society moving away from this? Most people I know aren’t really bothered so much.

Not patriarchal but I think there’s a problem when executives say they will no longer make a great story if it doesn’t meet diversity requirements, most of my favorite shows would never have been made by todays standards… shows like Cheers, Home Improvement, Friends, Seinfeld, etc would never be made by a company like Disney today because they don’t have enough diversity, I question whether favorites like the Fresh Prince of Bel Air or the Cosby Show would even meet the new modern standards since they were primarily all black, all straight casts?

I wish they’d just get back to making great shows, if that means the leads are white, black, straight, gay, male, female, patriarchal, matriarchal, or whatever I dont care, just make good stories.

It’s sad that we had better, more diverse, entertainment, 40 years ago than we do now... and it wasn’t directed by quotas, they just made what was good. Will and Grace didn't need a mandate to be amazing, it just had good writing and casting.

 

[Farerb]

I’m really getting the impressions this is all a manufactured martyrdom. I see no contempt from the company. I see no hatred from the actresses.

Societally I just don’t get it. Other than maybe social media invents controversies and we’re all slowly bathed in it until it seems actually real and concrete, when it never was.

In fact, what I see is someone of half Latin ancestory who was ripped apart for being casted from the drop and had a very positive response. As the internet loves to do.

Never in a million years did I imagine that this would be a possibility for me. You don't normally see Snow Whites that are of Latin descent. Even though Snow White is really a big deal in Spanish-speaking countries. Blanca Nieves is a huge icon whether you're talking about the Disney cartoon or just different iterations and the Grimm fairy tale and all the stories that come with it. But you don't particularly see people who look like me or are me playing roles like that. When it was announced, it was a huge thing that was trending on Twitter for days, because all of the people were angry. We need to love them in the right direction. At the end of the day, I have a job to do that I am really excited to do. I get to be a Latina princess.


And if someone’s natural response to this is hoping the actress is forever more out of work, well I think I know what the source of the hate is.

No, I don’t think feeling the movie was scary as a child or the princess/prince dynamic is creepy from a modern viewing lens is hateful. That’s merely an opinion, one for which people are super free to agree or disagree with. It barely registers as even a controversial opinion. It’s no real secret Snow White’s age doesn’t really hold up well for a modern retelling.

What exactly is Snow White's age? Never stated in the film, the Prince's age is definitely not mentioned. Either invented by fans and eventually turned into a misconception or was a production note that no one cares about. The only princesses whose age is stated in their films are Aurora, Ariel and Rapunzel. The rest are just fanon. This is the problem with the way people view or read fairytales nowadays. They take it literally instead of looking at the symbolism. This is why Disney can never make a good fairytale movie anymore.

Anyway, just wanted to make clear about my point because of course people took it to the culure wars nonsense. My point was that back then the people who used to work at Disney actually cared about its legacy, about innovation and originality and its main draw was its hand drawn animation. Nowadays Disney seems to care only about profitability which is why their main focus is on remakes, sequels and franchises. Their main draw is not what they make but what they purchased - MCU and Star Wars, and everything is basically made by a committee, which makes everything the same. It's not about diversity or representation, it's about how boring their movies have become. It's a company that goes through the motions while innovation is found elsewhere (like Spider Verse).

 

[BrianLo]

What exactly is Snow White's age?

14. The whole conceit is she going through puberty and that’s why the queen is suddenly supplanted as no longer being the fairest.

Obviously, no one is terribly caught up in her age from the cartoon or honestly expecting they’d cast a 14yo to begin with.

Which doesn’t make the original bad, or an affront on the original film. But there are ways to update it, much as the Disney original modified the fairy tale.

The original film stands well on its own. It poses no major problems for the company, who basically made her the main princess of their newest castle park.

I’ve always been on the side of if you are going to remake these things anyways, at least take a swing at something different.

 

[Chi84]

14. The whole conceit is she going through puberty and that’s why the queen is suddenly supplanted as no longer being the fairest.

Obviously, no one is terribly caught up in her age from the cartoon or honestly expecting they’d cast a 14yo to begin with.

Which doesn’t make the original bad, or an affront on the original film. But there are ways to update it, much as the Disney original modified the fairy tale.

The original film stands well on its own. It poses no major problems for the company, who basically made her the main princess of their newest castle park.

I’ve always been on the side of if you are going to remake these things anyways, at least take a swing at something different.

There’s no way they could do a present day remake that’s true to the original.