Lights of Winter not being displayed this year (2009)!?!

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
My only point was Disney improved it's margins even while the economy in general was weakening. The US economy has lost millions of jobs this year.

One of Igers goals has been to create a company that is "recession proof". And it seems as though he has done so.

As to your last point, Disney stock has done very well and Wall Street is more impressed with Iger by the day.

And in the next year even the harshest cynics will admit that.

Stay tuned.
:rolleyes:


And they did it by cutting quality, people, and their product. Yeah, good thinking!:rolleyes:

Despicable.

Thats what I was going to point out. Most of the sychronized light displays at Disney run on pretty much the same "obsolete" technology. Does that mean we suddenly get rid of them too? :rolleyes:

The only thing about this situation that is obsolete are the idiots who decided to remove the Lights of Winter. Therefore:

The-Obsolete-Man-Screencaps-the-twi.jpg
:lol: That is win.

Thanks. So that would be:

Vice President, Epcot — Dan Cockerell
President, Walt Disney World Resort – Meg Crofton
Senior Vice President of Operations, Walt Disney World Resort – Erin Wallace

So which one do we think authored this particular idea? Or was it groupthink idiocy?
I am hesitant to include Mr. Cockrell in this...I have heard MANY good things about him, and I would be shocked to hear if he had a say in this.


I'm thinking, just because that, that this came from higher up.

Well, I've written my novel on the subject...
http://bit.ly/MP_LoW
JACKIE!:sohappy:


I love the intro.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
JT lots of companies have been improving margins using the methods you appear to be advocating; generally the end result is to shaft the consumer. What is unusual is that Disney seem to be able to do this while actually getting vocal support from some of its core consumers where as other companies have to justify their decisions. Also if/ when wages rise your costs have to go up, otherwise you end up losing your best people. No one is saying Disney isnt doing OK, isnt that the point about penny-pinching, its the methods they are using to achieve this and what damage its starting to have on perceptions of quality and reputation.

As for my markets comment looking at the trend on share price yesterdays announcement seems to have no greater an impact on price than the D97 1/2 announcements. They are in a good position, something I think you will find I said months ago, and as a cash rich business I said they should be investing maximising on reduced costs and low interest rates. But given your arguments then and now you sound you feel that a big bank balance is better than ensuring a sustainable plan and delivering a quality product. You cant have it both ways just to maintain the appearance of an ubber fan. And besides didn’t you say your not visiting anyaway?
I will stay tuned as long as Disney keeps me entertained as a customer, in the meantime Ill continue to monitor and enjoy the offerings of the competition in Florida and Ill continue to visit, I like many others are just going to keep spending less while we are there

A LITANY of great points, Sak. :sohappy:

The end does not justify the means.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
the trains in front of the American Adventure will be up this year, but now will be supplied by Bachmann. They are also trying to take care of the garden railroad in Germany, since LGB basically is out of business.

I heard this first hand from two Bachmann vice presidents.

Before people get upset about Bachmann, you should know that they make very good G-scale trains for garden railways.

this might explain why it is not up yet, give them time.

tom

That's great news. :D
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
i read a post on this thread saying that the LOW did not bring in money for EPCOT. hmmmm. lets see. people go in december to see the lights. eat in the park. spend money on souvenirs. so no lights = less people in the parks = less money spent on food = less money spent at the stores. so how can you say the LOW does not make money for Disney. Plus people pay extra at this time of the year because of the extra money it costs to put this type of display. So where does Disney go from here? What will be cut next so they dont have to spend money on something that doesnt make them money? The parades dont make money maybe they are next. It is going to come to a point where Disney is going cut so many things that people will say why am i paying more money to get into the park & have less to see & do. Where will it end?

I think the point was that there wasn't a DIRECT correlation between the LoW and revenue. Nothing hard and fast that could be put on paper.

Of course, the intangible here is how many people this will alienate, which will drop revenue in all the categories you mention. And it probably won't effect much this year at all, because I'd imagine a very few people will know ahead of time what's missing. Heck, even some of us that DO know are already locked in to their December trip (me included).

That's what sucks about this... We might have to wait a full year to see how many people really care.
 

mickeysaver

Well-Known Member
So I was thinking we should all plan a day to go to the park, maybe wear shirts or buttons or some other way of displaying our displeasure and get a group to hang out around were the lights used to be. I hear Dec 6th is press day at Epcot and the media and executives will be attending to see this years holiday offerings.

Hmmm.....I can come, my partner can't because she won't have an available day on her ticket as our plans were only for us to attend MVMCP that day. I am going to be using an ECV that is all decked out with battery operated Snowflake and LED lights. I am actually considering making a sign for the back of the scooter that reads, "Powered by obsolete technology." Count me as a possible participant.
 

TimNRA757

Member
As I'm riding the Roy O. Disney now I'm thinking it being from 1916 makes it way obsolete. Maybe we're supposed to imagine the Lights of Winter there when we close our eyes as the lyrics to the CADCT parade suggest. Maybe we're just supposed to imagine going to WDW all together and not actually go.
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
i read a post on this thread saying that the LOW did not bring in money for EPCOT. hmmmm. lets see. people go in december to see the lights. eat in the park. spend money on souvenirs. so no lights = less people in the parks = less money spent on food = less money spent at the stores. so how can you say the LOW does not make money for Disney. Plus people pay extra at this time of the year because of the extra money it costs to put this type of display. So where does Disney go from here? What will be cut next so they dont have to spend money on something that doesnt make them money? The parades dont make money maybe they are next. It is going to come to a point where Disney is going cut so many things that people will say why am i paying more money to get into the park & have less to see & do. Where will it end?

That's the major problem with bean-counters running something as complex as a Disney park...you can't put a number on many things, you can't put a number on how many people won't show up if LOW isn't there, or how many decided to keep going back because it was...you can do surveys until you're blue in the face, but that still won't give you the true picture of why people go to Disney.
 

hpyhnt 1000

Well-Known Member
That's the major problem with bean-counters running something as complex as a Disney park...you can't put a number on many things, you can't put a number on how many people won't show up if LOW isn't there, or how many decided to keep going back because it was...you can do surveys until you're blue in the face, but that still won't give you the true picture of why people go to Disney.

Precisely. Not all things can be quantified through money or surveys. One day management will realize this once more. :eek:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
My only point was Disney improved it's margins even while the economy in general was weakening. The US economy has lost millions of jobs this year.

Yes ... and Disney has lost plenty of jobs as well over the last few years. And Disney's bottom line looks better than it should because of things like vast discounting (which damages the product in the long run).

One of Igers goals has been to create a company that is "recession proof". And it seems as though he has done so.

Laughable. Look at the numbers. Look at how they're achieved ... lay-offs, mass discounting year round, lowering quality ... wait, I'm talking to the wrong guy.

As to your last point, Disney stock has done very well and Wall Street is more impressed with Iger by the day.

And in the next year even the harshest cynics will admit that.

Stay tuned.

Wall Street has shown itself to be the biggest fraud perpetrated on the American public. That's why our billions (probably trillions) went to bail it out while folks were losing homes or being turned away from healthcare.

Wall Street only wants the bottom line to look better than the previous quarter and doesn't care how it is achieved. It's propped up on lies.

Wall Street doesn't care about the Disney Legacy. It only cares that numbers go up, even if they realistically can't or shouldn't.

So, Wall Street may like Iger, but that isn't a gauge of what kind of leader he is or what kind of company he is leaving behind.
 

David

Active Member
CRAP!

My first Christmas visit to Disney and the LoW will not be there. Just from the video's, it looked liked some of the prettiest decorations on property. Guess I'll never know for sure, now.

BAH HUMBUG!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
The majority of even the most uber-fans are pragmatic. Most realize the parks are going to follow more closely with the ebb and flow of the economy. Therefore at times the parks will cut back and at times they will add greatly. I have personally seen WDW go through these cycles several times.

That WDW has so far been able to navigate the recession without cutting front line personnel is commendable.

WDW will bounce back as the economy recovers with old favorites that have been cut back and new offerings such as the new Fantasyland. No need to panic......yet. :lookaroun

No, the need to panic started over a decade ago when WDW switched business models and started aggressively cutting what it termed 'fat' ... and that's why (with some exceptions individually) the overall WDW product is vastly inferior to what it was in its first quarter century and what Disney offers at its other resorts world-wide.
 

Figment632

New Member
Yes ... and Disney has lost plenty of jobs as well over the last few years. And Disney's bottom line looks better than it should because of things like vast discounting (which damages the product in the long run).



Laughable. Look at the numbers. Look at how they're achieved ... lay-offs, mass discounting year round, lowering quality ... wait, I'm talking to the wrong guy.



Wall Street has shown itself to be the biggest fraud perpetrated on the American public. That's why our billions (probably trillions) went to bail it out while folks were losing homes or being turned away from healthcare.

Wall Street only wants the bottom line to look better than the previous quarter and doesn't care how it is achieved. It's propped up on lies.

Wall Street doesn't care about the Disney Legacy. It only cares that numbers go up, even if they realistically can't or shouldn't.

So, Wall Street may like Iger, but that isn't a gauge of what kind of leader he is or what kind of company he is leaving behind.

The economy went into the tank because of banks were giving out loans to irresponsible people that were trying to live beyond there means. It turned millions of good renters into millions of bad home owners.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
.... quarter-billion dollar payroll..... grrrr...... :fork: :fork: :fork:

Back on topic, I really don't see how a $1.4 billion dollar PROFIT for the last fiscal year means you need to cut things. Exactly how greedy are these ruthless folks?
 

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