Rumor Light Rail / Tram Link for Disney Springs to TTC?

Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Rich Brownn said:
In the old days, the majority of the park's profits came from merchandise and F&B. When the Bass Bros. came aboard, the wanted that cash upfront when the people walked in the gates. As prices went up, people bought less merchandise so those prices went up too. And did the room rates. And food. And now its a cycle. (It might be shocking to know that in 1974, when I worked at Disney, room rates for the Contemporary were the same as the Holiday Inn Maingate!)
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I believe the contemporary and poly where $29 a night when they opened...

How much does that CL MK View run you now?...

Caribbean beach was built SPECIFICALLY as a moto lodge...I think about $49 a night there as well in 1988. We are right in the 30th anniversary of the tier system that went into effect with the opening of Caribbean and the Grand...when the poly and contemporary went up $30-$40 overnight to create those tiers.

Now look at Caribbean’s price...interesting huh?

The two excuses: “inflation” and “location based pricing” are complete bull crafted by marketing people who graduated at the bottom of their class at Wharton or Stanford. Not the brightest and the best.

The reality is that Disney has put itself in a scenario where they have to reap handfuls of cash every minute without pause in rollercoaster bubble economies. And they have to do so while needing quantity AND quantity. Quantity of customers spending quantity of cash in every case.

To put it succinctly - and to quote top gun - Iger has wrote checks (to investors) his body can’t cash.

And he’ll quit on a moments notice with no leadership behind. The only guy is a retail guy...anyone notice retail is in full collapse? It’s kinda a “thing” these days.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
I believe the contemporary and poly where $29 a night when they opened...

How much does that CL MK View run you now?...

Caribbean beach was built SPECIFICALLY as a moto lodge...I think about $49 a night there as well in 1988. We are right in the 30th anniversary of the tier system that went into effect with the opening of Caribbean and the Grand...when the poly and contemporary went up $30-$40 overnight to create those tiers.

Now look at Caribbean’s price...interesting huh?

The two excuses: “inflation” and “location based pricing” are complete bull crafted by marketing people who graduated at the bottom of their class at Wharton or Stanford. Not the brightest and the best.

The reality is that Disney has put itself in a scenario where they have to reap handfuls of cash every minute without pause in rollercoaster bubble economies. And they have to do so while needing quantity AND quantity. Quantity of customers spending quantity of cash in every case.

To put it succinctly - and to quote top gun - Iger has wrote checks (to investors) his body can’t cash.

And he’ll quit on a moments notice with no leadership behind. The only guy is a retail guy...anyone notice retail is in full collapse? It’s kinda a “thing” these days.
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Let's say about 32 with tax. That is equal to about 200 today. Not sure how that compares.

I do know rates accelerated pretty quickly early on due to demand exceeding supply. I remember people complaining about the exact same thing. Of course back then there wasn't even a Space Mountain. Or three other parks to enjoy.

It is all about context. And people Never grow tired of talking about inflation. Whether it is Disney tickets or the price of eggs.

Of course there are people who have trouble with their food bill. So complaining about Disney prices is too indulgent for me. But I'm peculiar like that.

To each their own. Different strokes. March to the beat of one's own drum. Everyone has an opinion. I'm bored now. Goodnight.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
jt04 said:
Let's say about 32 with tax. That is equal to about 200 today. Not sure how that compares.

I do know rates accelerated pretty quickly early on due to demand exceeding supply. I remember people complaining about the exact same thing. Of course back then there wasn't even a Space Mountain. Or three other parks to enjoy.

It is all about context. And people Never grow tired of talking about inflation. Whether it is Disney tickets or the price of eggs.

Of course there are people who have trouble with their food bill. So complaining about Disney prices is too indulgent for me. But I'm peculiar like that.

To each their own. Different strokes. March to the beat of one's own drum. Everyone has an opinion. I'm bored now. Goodnight.
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So that room of $32/200 dollars is priced at $651 today...one number seems a lot bigger to me but I’m no mathematican.

Probably...”I have nothing to comment here” would have worked just as well...

Because it’s not about the price of eggs...it’s a defined topic/situation and being analyzed with historical context...which matters in all things (but not definitive in most) but often ignored when it doesn’t fit a predefined angle/narrative.

Let me translate...the money WAS made in the giftshops. It was a more satisfactory/rewarding model.

But things did change...
You know what one of the biggest things was? Madison Avenue was weened off espn due to technology and awful product...so the touristas in Orlando have paid the bill...

That involves the Bobs turning you upside down on vacation and shaking you till the nickels fall out.

It’s not an opinion debate on that point...plenty of evidence to convict.
 
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F

Flalex72

Well-Known Member
Thinking about the original idea of an LRT to Disney Springs, the new bus lanes on Buena Vista Drive could be easily repurposed for median tracks. If this were to continue west, I can't see any reason that the current turn only station on the CBR-Epcot gondola line couldn't have platforms added allowing passengers to connect there. The amount of space is limited though, adding bus loops to make it a full 2nd TTC would be tight.
 
zombiebbq

zombiebbq

Well-Known Member
I know this thread is about transportation around the parks... but it's comical to think they will never open a 5th gate. They absolutely will. I would agree in 15 years as a previous poster mentioned.
In regards to getting around the parks...I feel like if the gondola system is successful it will definitely be expanded.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
So that room of $32/200 dollars is priced at $651 today...one number seems a lot bigger to me but I’m no mathematican.

.
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considering you 3 more theme parks. $200 X 3 = $600. Add Space Mountain, and PoTC, and Big Thunder, and new tourist tax and that comes out to exactly $652.

TDO throws in two waterparks, Disney Springs and mini golf ⛳ as a door prize.
 
Lensman

Lensman

Well-Known Member
Robbiem said:
Could the bridge be a water bridge like the one at the contemporary? If it has to cross the canal I could see it being themed to blend in and not be an eyesore.

If they did ever do this I’d like to see something other than trams used. A peoplemover or even a short skyway system would keep the magical approach to Magic Kingdom, or what about some form of water transport using the canal if that could provide the capacity?
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s8film40 said:
A water bridge would be nice, but I would guess a simple drawbridge would be the go to choice. I don't think some alternate transportation would really be worthwhile. It's actually a very short distance. It would be a shorter walk in than from most of the other parking lots and a lot of people usually opt to walk instead of using the trams anyway. Perhaps a moving walkway similar to what Universal uses would be better and they could save even more money by not running trams.
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Speaking of the water bridge by the Contemporary, bioreconstruct posted several wonderful aerial photos that show it in good perspective.

In the upper right of this one:


In the center of this one:


The left bottom of this one:


And at the very bottom center of this one:
DpdGq01U4AAkYvx.jpg:large


Besides what @marni1971 said about this being a different Disney from the one of the era that engineered this small marvel, the case is different in that the canal isn't frequently navigated like this one between Bay Lake and the Seven Seas Lagoon, which is navigated at least every 10 minutes by the water shuttle from the FW and WL to the MK.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Lensman said:
The $32 was to get our parents to take us there as kids so we would grow up to be the addicted adults who come back every year so Disney can shear for $652 worth of wool off of us, our spouses, and our kids. And so the circle will continue...
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No...it was just fair market value by a WW1-WW2 issue management that didn’t have the CNN Money app and real time ticker scroll...

They weren’t as insidious as you are giving them credit for
 
R

RollerCoaster

Well-Known Member
Brad Bishop said:
What the WDW Monorail has going for it really couldn't be done today because there's no catwalk. I bet that they couldn't get away with that today. The lack of a catwalk makes it looks slim and sexy up in the sky. When you add a catwalk in it greatly diminishes the look of the Monorail (see Newark's airport monorail - it looks as bad, or nearly as bad, as an elevated train or light rail).
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There are NO REQUIREMENTS for catwalks. Zero. It's totally unnecessary. Monorails are still built today. The factors that determine if a catwalk is added are accessibility for maintenance and speed for evacuation. The other factor is space. Catwalks and walkways however require more space, more supports, and add to the cost. Airports favor a walkway because of the high use requiring more maintenance and quick evacuations are helpful to passengers who may otherwise miss flights.

Let me point out one more example of why catwalks are not necessary or required! If catwalks on a monorail are necessary then how does the Disney Skyliner get away with its design? On the "new" aerial transportation riders will be suspended from wire ropes, in many cases higher off the ground and over water.

Brad Bishop said:
Well, it's running on rubber tires across a concrete path - that's basically a bus. Mutli-cars make it a train.

The thing that makes the Monorail neat is that the bus-part (the tires) are hidden and so it seems to just magically glide. It's basically an expensive, "on-rail" (can't go anywhere else) bus.

Take out the beams and replace them with single-lane roads/bridges for buses and, no, it's definitely not as sexy, but it makes a lot more practical sense.
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Your monorail assessment is so off base. It's ridiculous. Because past technology uses a rubber tire you equate it to a bus. However, it's so different than a bus. A modern monorail today could be updated to use maglev technology.

Aerial ropeways however is the future of Disney transportation at WDW. The cost is so much less than a monorail and the benefit is the same or greater!
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Lensman said:
Besides what @marni1971 said about this being a different Disney from the one of the era that engineered this small marvel, the case is different in that the canal isn't frequently navigated like this one between Bay Lake and the Seven Seas Lagoon, which is navigated at least every 10 minutes by the water shuttle from the FW and WL to the MK.
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Well, yes, it is a different Disney now - who never would have just flooded the swamp like they did and made what is really a growing ecological disaster to begin with.
 
Rich Brownn

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
Well, yes, it is a different Disney now - who never would have just flooded the swamp like they did and made what is really a growing ecological disaster to begin with.
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Actually the reverse. They built the canals to drain the swamp. The Seven Seas Lagoon exists because they used the dirt to cover the basement of the Magic Kingdom. But at one time, all of the area of Bay Lake was underwater during the summer. <One of the most quoted stories - true or not - is Adm. Fowler advising Walt after examine the site they had bought "27,000 acres of the sorriest piece of land on earth - most of it is underwater">
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Missing20K said:
I can't help but wonder what would get them a similar ROI as the gondola. PRT is far more expensive.
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Resort to park (as the gondolas will be marketed) is one thing. Crossing property and linking park to park is another. That’s how it’s currently seen. There’s also concern about a major transit route that’s susceptible to weather downtime (again major vs minor or supplemental, as the gondolas are seen.)

Maybe they will string the things all over property. That’s currently not the plan though.
 
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