Kids Thrown Out Of Disneyworld

[echoscot]

Link?

I wasn't sure if it was allowed on here to link to other forums...Some forums don't permit that so I didn't put it up at first. I'll attach a link here, and if it's not allowed, mods, just let me know and I'll delete it.

http://www.visionsfantastic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21228

You will note that this is very similar to the debate we are having here. The only added attraction is the mother/chaperone from one of the Hawaii teams joining in. I haven't changed my mind, but she did get me to sympathize with her situation a bit more.

She is not very well spoken/written? so it is sometimes difficult to get through her posts, but the thread is only 3 pages long as opposed to the lengthy discussion here.

 

[KeeKee]

Quote from the other forum:

"and they all look like senior citizens. nothing against them just that you know your hotel is being filled with thousands of teens and kids of all kinds they have to be ready for anything!"

This was her statement about the security at WDW. Pretty much explaines everything, eh? She sees it as Disney's problem and not the responsibility of the groups'.

It didn't seem like in her post that she had the comprehension to understand that she had agreed to a contract and wanted to argue the conditions after the fact.

 

[DisneyPirate85]

I went to the "Pop Warner" web site, but strangely no mention of any of this?

 

[disneyjesus]

It amazes me how anyone can come down on this side of the issue.

You find it strange that someone could actually have a different opinion than you?

 

[Master Yoda]

I have not read all of the previous 200+ posts so forgive me if I am repeating something.

Disney did the right thing and I hope to continue to enforce this policy. For years tour groups have been the bane of the average WDW guest's existence. They cut in line, raise hell at resorts and are for the most part are responsible for ruining more vacations than food poising. Just do a search for cheerleaders, pop Warner or Brazilian tour groups and you will read countless first hand accounts of how many problems are caused when one of these groups gets out of hand. To add insult to injury Disney seemed to take little or no action to correct this obvious problem. If this incident is an example of things to come I will be a happy camper.

Does it suck for the kids and parents in that group that did nothing wrong? Sure does.

Hopefully those parents and kids will go back home and realize that it is not Disney's fault that they were put out in the cold but the kids that thought a fist fight at WDW was a good idea. Maybe next year they will make it clear to the kids and the parents what will happen if they do not act in a civil manor.

If Disney continues to enforce this rule maybe this will be the last summer that tour groups can take over WDW and do as they please with no recourse.

 

[Enderikari]

chap·er·on or chap·er·one (____āp'ə-rōn')

1. A person, especially an older or married woman, who accompanies a young unmarried woman in public.
2. An older person who attends and supervises a social gathering for young people.
3. A guide or companion whose purpose is to ensure propriety or restrict activity: "to see and feel the rough edges of the society . . . without the filter of official chaperones" (Philip Taubman).

Where were they? They are required to be there, at least 1 for every 10. They are the ones responsible for the actions of the attendees, in lieu of these kids actually taking responsibility for their actions (which we all know will never happen, a sad state of affairs).

Out at 1 AM, fine, it is a bit harsh. But sorry to say, I think they were being made an example of. Wanna bet that in the following years, teams calm it down so that parents don't have to scramble at 1 AM to fix getting evicted?

 

[disneyjesus]

Anyone who deals with kids this age knows there is always a threat of retaliation with this kind of stuff. Plus, i am sure these kids were not totally upfront about who started it, who was involved, not to mention, i am sure there were threats back and forth about someone getting someone else, etc. I was not there, i admit. But this is an educated guess. I deal with this kind of situation almost daily and it all ends like this.

So, are you sure, or are you taking an educated guess?

Oh, by the way, has anyone here who thinks this could have been handled better ever see a fight involving a large group of young testosterone charged males? It is, for a rather large gentleman such as myself even, a scary violent thing. A mele like this is dangerouse, and very very freightening for anyone near. Trust me, this was not a situation where kids broke themselves up and went their seperate ways. This was a situation where, i am sure, security and management probably had to go in tossing bodies from bodies to stop this. Again, i was not there, but have been in this situation before. So the fact that disney does not see this everyday probably added to the situation.

So now there was the "tossing of bodies?" If there were facts that supported your assumptions, I might feel differently. The reality is that the article does not mention the details of the altercation, and from the information provided (in other words, not assumptions or pure speculation), I believe that the matter could have been handled in a more sensitive matter with respect to those families who were not involved in the altercation.

 

[disneyjesus]

Honestly you seem to be one of the parents of these hoodlums

Honestly, your generalization of all teammates of the few offenders as "hoodlums" is simple-minded.

I'm not one of the parents of those children, nor am I a parent at all. However, I am proud to say that I have two very well-behaved cats.

 

[phichi17]

Let me start by saying that I realize I am in the minority on this issue and that I typically err on the side of too much protection at WDW.

And I agree that every kid that was involved in the brawl, in any way, should be kicked, along with their parents for not properly supervising them. However, I do not agree with kicking the kids that were in their rooms sleeping. That just doesn't seem fair to me. I understand that it may be a condition of the group deal and Disney would probably argue that one of the quid pro quos for the discounted group rates is that you have to assume responsibility for the actions of other people in your group. But it still doesn't sit right with me.

Whats fair? Kids running around at all hours raising cain, disturbing other guests? To participate in the group discount you MUST agree to the conditions, ALL of them.

I completely agree agree with Disney's decision to eject the ENTIRE group.

A suggestion for responsible parents and chaperones (sp?): If you even think a member of your group will be this disruptive:

DO NOT book as part of the group, the cost savings obviously are not worth the risk of being ejected and added expense.

As MKT so eloquently said it much earlier in this thread:

Disney = Private Property

 

[echoscot]

Honestly, your generalization of all teammates of the few offenders as "hoodlums" is simple-minded.

I'm not one of the parents of those children, nor am I a parent at all. However, I am proud to say that I have two very well-behaved cats.

There is no such thing as a well behaved cat, just cats who have well trained people.

 

[disneyjesus]

As has been stated it is not Disney's responsibility to conduct an investigation to determine who was involved, what the involvement was, take witness statements, etc. It doesn't make any difference whether retaliation was mentioned or not, when dealing with adolescents the threat of retaliation MUST be taken into account when determining the action to take.

I've never contested Disney's right to eject all families in the middle of the night. Again, as many have pointed out, it is their property (which, just to clarify, does not mean they can do whatever they want. Disney could not, for example, refuse to provide hospitality to individuals based on their race.), they have a clear policy with respect to physical altercations, and they have a duty to ensure a reasonably safe environment for their patrons. It is also true, that Disney has no obligation to conduct further investigations to ensure that only the immediate offenders are ejected in the middle of the night.

I don't think anyone has contested Disney's right to handle the matter exactly how they did. I merely believe that, GIVEN THE SPARSE INFORMATION PROVIDED, there might have been a better way to handle this situation with respect to those families that were not involved in the altercation. With the facts provided, the actions seem a bit bullyish. Clearly, that is Disney's prerogative. I like to think Disney can do better.

 

[Hrudey3032]

By reading this womans statement I can't help but feel she may be a slight bit racist.She doesn't just refer to them as the other team but instead just calls them the "colored boys" To me she shows her ignorance by ripping Disney security but what she fails to realize is that these guys are not allowed to just jump in to a fray.These are not police officers they are 8 dollar a hour retirees for the most part and I am sure don't want to get hurt themself by this mob-mentality driven kids.

 

[eroyee]

Are you suggesting that if there was a fight in a restaurant, Disney should just kick everyone in the restaurant out of the park rather than trying to find out who was actually involved??? I think you are being a bit silly. Of course management should take the time to find out who was involved. Remember, they didn't just kick out the people who were present. They kicked out people who were no where near the incident. Like I said, I agree parents are responsible for their kids' actions and I have no problem with booting the families of the kids involved in the altercation. But it sounds like some families got kicked even though their kids were not present and that the basis for their boot was nothing more than the fact that they were on the same team.

Assume you are visiting WDW as a family reunion. Imagine being kicked out of WDW because your cousin got in a fight at a park while you back in your room sleeping. Fair?

These were not just people sitting in a restaurant eating or a family reunion. these are people that signed a contract stating that if everyone doesnt behave them OUT you go.........they didnt kick out the other teams. just the troublemakers.........

 

[phichi17]

I've never contested Disney's right to eject all families in the middle of the night. Again, as many have pointed out, it is their property (which, just to clarify, does not mean they can do whatever they want. Disney could not, for example, refuse to provide hospitality to individuals based on their race.), they have a clear policy with respect to physical altercations, and they have a duty to ensure a reasonably safe environment for their patrons. It is also true, that Disney has no obligation to conduct further investigations to ensure that only the immediate offenders are ejected in the middle of the night.

I don't think anyone has contested Disney's right to handle the matter exactly how they did. I merely believe that, GIVEN THE SPARSE INFORMATION PROVIDED, there might have been a better way to handle this situation with respect to those families that were not involved in the altercation. With the facts provided, the actions seem a bit bullyish. Clearly, that is Disney's prerogative. I like to think Disney can do better.

But by agreeing to Disney's terms, they are under zero obligation to do so. They have the right to throw you out for the exact reasons this group was tossed for. I feel they were protecting the greater good by stemming possible retalitation before it occured. Disney should be commended for their quick action, not chastised for it.

 

[disneyjesus]

As MKT so eloquently said it much earlier in this thread:

Disney = Private Property

Can someone please explain why this "Disney = Private Property" issue keeps coming up like it is supposed to trump some people's notions of human decency? No one has contested Disney's right to eject all people associated with teams of the offending individuals. It's purely a matter of how the ejection was executed, and whether the middle-of-the-night ejection was too severe for all people involved. Most people believe that it was appropriate. Some of us feel that it was not given the limited facts provided.

 

[echoscot]

By reading this womans statement I can't help but feel she may be a slight bit racist.She doesn't just refer to them as the other team but instead just calls them the "colored boys" To me she shows her ignorance by ripping Disney security but what she fails to realize is that these guys are not allowed to just jump in to a fray.These are not police officers they are 8 dollar a hour retirees for the most part and I am sure don't want to get hurt themself by this mob-mentality driven kids.

As I said earlier, I think she did more damage than help to her cause, but buried under all of that she raises some valid concerns. It doesn't seem fair in her eyes.

However, life is not fair. Pop Warner has had a very negative history with Disney and the Company has bent over backwards time and again to accomodate them.

The policy for Disney CMs is exactly the same "Fighting, regardless of who started it, can result in termination."

At a certain point, even with this woman's input maybe even because of it, I can honestly say I understand Disney throwing their hands in the air and saying "All right, everyone out of the pool, NOW!"

And DisneyJesus, I understand your point a little better too. Disney is not perfect in how they handle things, they are people (I know I worked there for a cumulative 25 years). But sometimes you are tired, irritated and have to just make a decision fair or not, and err on the side of safety and well-being of the other guests.

 

[phichi17]

Can someone please explain why this "Disney = Private Property" issue keeps coming up like it is supposed to trump some people's notions of human decency? No one has contested Disney's right to eject all people associated with teams of the offending individuals. It's purely a matter of how the ejection was executed, and whether the middle-of-the-night ejection was too severe for all people involved. Most people believe that it was appropriate. Some of us feel that it was not given the limited facts provided.

I'll be happy to. The middle of the night ejection was executed to prevent any further violence. As stated before, Disney officals, police, and Pop Warner officals were in agreement about this. They were there.....we were not there. It is obvious that more was occuring than the "news story" let on.
All of us can assume all day long about the harshness of this, but in the end a decision of this magnitude was made for a specific reason. Guest safety.

 

[disneyjesus]

I'll be happy to. The middle of the night ejection was executed to prevent any further violence. As stated before, Disney officals, police, and Pop Warner officals were in agreement about this. They were there.....we were not there. It is obvious that more was occuring than the "news story" let on.
All of us can assume all day long about the harshness of this, but in the end a decision of this magnitude was made for a specific reason. Guest safety.

I appreciate you taking the time to restate what has already been mentioned. However, this doesn't address what "private property" has anything to do with the decision to ensure guest safety. People can also be ejected from public property for endangering others.

 

[Hrudey3032]

Well wether they suspected retalliation or not the decision made was to kick them out and cut off any chance at retalliation real or not,I for one think Disney made the right decision and if anything makes me happier knowing rules are being followed thru on.

 

[phichi17]

I appreciate you taking the time to restate what has already been mentioned. However, this doesn't address what "private property" has anything to do with the decision to ensure guest safety. People can also be ejected from public property for endangering others.

It is Disneys obligation, as a private property owner, to ensure safety for all of its guests. If they do not, they will be held liable. The "private property" mantra simply states they can do pretty much as they please as long as they are within legal boundries. In this case they would have been out of bounds if they had not done what they did. Does this answer your question?