It's the Tourists...

[CarlHS]

I'm not patient enought to split quotes, so I won't. Numbers are cute.

Oh, and the head bang against the brick wall doesn't mean that you are superior. Especially since almost EVERYBODY ON THIS THREAD DISAGREES WITH YOU. But hey, what's the majority know huh?

1. I am by far not a Disney Fan. I'm trying to please all guest but you. Of course that would make me a Disney Hater.

2. Hard tickets prove they can't handle the extra spins. That's why they kick people out. That's why they charge double for the full day. There is too much demand.

3. I don't know what my system is, but DLR hasn't grown in years. They have added 2 new attractions since DCA settled in. Buzz and Monsters. I don't know how that was successful when they only opened 1 attraction for the big 50th. Not to day that DL needs more attractions. DCA Yes. DL no. And that is what they plan on doing. Same thing they should be doing in FLA. Bring up the stragglers. AK/EP/DS Yes. MK no.

4. Walt never was witness to ADA theme parks. And Safety is the #1 philosophy in "his" park operations. How safe is an attraction w/no fire escape? I double dare you to let the subs go. They really weren't ever that good. I haven't even talked about subs until now anyways. I could give a crap about them. So could most guests. That's part of why they don't exist.

5. So you would rather they skip out on the half day parks and hit the competition. MK will get at least 1 visit from 99% of all Central Florida Vacationers that visit a Disney Theme Park. Many skip Epcot/DS/AK now. They DO NOT skip MK. The current numbers prove it. Where WDW management needs to step up is in the parks that are UNDERPERFORMING.

6. If I have 3 kids. One makes A's. One makes A-'s. One makes C's. Do I invest insanely in the two top scholars and let the third fend for itself? Do I trust the stronger students to hold their own with a mild influnce and work hard to get the 3rd up to par? I say we buy the smartest kid a laptop. Let the other two have calculators.

Every argument you have isn't based around making money, business management, or guest satisfaction. It's about you complaining about your "fantasy" MK not being built with "your" special concept rides. Runing WDW isn't so it can be a novelty. It isn't supercool to spend a half billion dollars on something that could get away with 20-30 million in upkeep and casual upgrades.

7. If this isn't the perfect analogy, I don't know what is. Do you buy your car a new engine every time you need an oil change? Very simply. Sure it would be "cool" to have that V8 instead of a V6. It really would. But logical? Not really.

8. But hey, I understand. You aren't looking for logic. You are upset about that sub thing that is almost a decade old now. You and the other 37 people that spit at the Pooh park as they walk past. I'm sure those meetings the 37 of you have just don't give you the satisfaction or the gratification that they should. So boycotting the park for 95% of your visit to WDW theme parks is sending a serious message. And if WDW management isn't getting that as clear as they should by looking at your visitation pattern, they can now look here on this site to see how you feel. Only by replacing the poinless subs with the Bald, Smokey, Fire, Dingle, and Villian Mountians can the true Glory be returned to MK. Plus there must be future plans in place to add the additional mountains every 21.5 months: Narnia Mountian, Syndrome's Volcano, Wall-E's Mountian of Trash, The Mount Rushmore Experience, Uluru, and Flick's Ant Mound. This should have a full enough schedule for the next decade and a half. Why not? It would be "neat" after all. Oh, and I guess I have to add the sarcastic smilie too. Um, how about this one.

The idea of a complete experience for guests visiting WDW parks is a fools dream anyways. Better to make sure we satisfy 75 visitor guy with a chip on his shoulder. That is much more important. And C student offspring. Go ahead and enjoy all that weed you want. And be sure that you are pregnant when you smoke it. And homeless. Wouldn't want those distractions to bother the A student here. Also, don't forget to eat your feces C student offspring of mine. Recycling is important and cost effective.

Am I following the proper tone for interaction now?

Temper, Temper there Jimbo, sounds like you’re going to pop a blood vessel.

IT SEEMS TO ME THERE HAVE BEEN AS MANY ‘FOR’ AS ‘AGAINST’ IN THIS THREAD. You can count if you really need to know…

1. Huh?

2. Wrong, Hard Tickets prove that they can handle the extra spins, because they are in fact extra spins. Demand is not relevant to Hard Tickets as they do not occur on nights of Full Capacity anyway. They are only a way to charge guest a second time and count that guest as an extra visit (It makes the 16,000,000 a bit suspect if you ask me).

3. DL is bringing up the stragglers and expanding DL at the same time (Pirate Island, Nemo Subs and now plans for a new new tomorrowland with an additional E-Ticket), and all I’m saying is MK should do the same. I’ve repeatedly said to add to the stragglers too.

4. What? The subs in DL are working just fine, not a lot of sub fires going on out there, and they opened this year, ADA and all. I am not lobbying for the subs. I’ve specifically lobbied for an E-Ticket to replace the subs (never mentioned my preference). BTW, the subs were not deleted because people didn’t like them.

5. Again you are wrong. I think you haven’t read my posts clearly at all. I’m saying your ‘system’ of stagnating the MK to get people to visit the other 3 is poor business because you are actually encouraging them to visit the competition too. I would rather they stay at WDW because ALL the parks have something new. You should always experience positive growth in all you parks. You want extra attendance at your other parks, give them a new E-Ticket and get the PR going, but they should have a new reason to visit MK too. FYI: ‘too’ means ‘also’ not ‘instead of’ and I’ve been saying the MK should get an E-Ticket too.

I’m not so sure the numbers prove it either. Disney counts the first park entered with that day’s ticket for the park count. Naturally, the MK gets a lot of these first-point-of-entry clicks. If the person goes over to MGM, because MK is too crowded and there aren’t enough rides to handle the crowd (you said it yourself “There’s too much demand”), MGM does not get a ½ point for that entry and MK does not lose a ½ point either. At DCA you can see the empty park and realize its attendance is low, but at Epcot, MGM and AK, the crowds are there quite a bit. I’m not convinced that MGM’s numbers aren’t hurt a bit by the counting system. All that said, I would still agree with you (for the 10th time) that MGM needs help.

6. I’m not saying to give 1 kid a laptop and 2 calculators. You are the one giving the Calculator to the MK (quote: “AK/EP/DS-yes, MK-no”) when they took the 20K laptop away years ago. I’ve repeatedly said they should ALL get an E-Ticket.

7. The car engine analogy is crap. A car only has one engine, MK has 16 rides (according to you) and I want 1 more. If you have a restaurant with 16 seats and you fill up constantly, you add more serving times (Hard Tickets), and more seats via an addition (new E-Ticket).

8. Wow, you should be an imagineer! I love all those mountain ideas…. GET A GRIP! Where talking 1 E-Ticket to replace the one they ripped out. Also, I am not upset about the subs going, I dislike that they did not give us something to replace it… 15 years since the last E-Ticket, you have to admit that’s a bit extreme.

No, I take it back, the 2nd to last paragraph would get you banned from Imagineering I think… Whew.

You sleep well too, there Jumba.

 

[CarlHS]

I love it when people who have common sense post such...

perhaps, but it has nothing to do with my point.

 

[CSUFSteve]

Totally agree with you on this one. Having been to WDW and DL two times each in the past year...DL is way better. Its like everything at WDW has been dumbed down since they know they will get the crowds regardless. Its like they half a$$ everything at WDW. Always exceptions though. Like Everest!

So I'm a Disneylander by birth. But I am also a DVC owner and usually have both a WDW and DL AP. I love WDW entirely on its own merit and distinct from Disneyland.

It's been interesting because I have certainly seen a bit of gloating by fellow Disneyland fans that Disneyland is currently in better shape than FL, that Disneyland is being recognized by Corporate, and that Corporate identifies California as having substantial room for growth. Obviously I'm happy about that too because it FINALLY means we get some cash for some genuine, ORIGINAL E-Ticket attractions.

Just as much as I want Disneyland to do well and get Corporate investment, I want the SAME thing for Walt Disney World. It's not a competition. Florida will ALWAYS remain the cash cow of Parks and Resorts. California will NEVER be able to compete land-wise and thus from a sheer volume and revenue perspective, Florida will remain tops. Where I think CA is appealing to Corporate is that while we may generate less revenue, we can probably get a better profit margin for precisely the reason that Florida is a cash cow: we don't have as much land to manage, maintain, operate, etc. We do not have all the problems of a city and we don't have the volume of Cast, albeit labor costs are more expensive than FL. The point is, I believe Florida will always bring in the lion's share of the revenue, Florida will be where Disney generates its longest lengths-of-stay, but Disneyland will probably be a more efficient operation in terms of revenue-to-cost, per-caps, etc. I'm also betting that DVC in CA will introduce a 2-tier pricing structure whereby DVC is significantly more expensive in CA.

Anyway, what has dismayed me about my fellow Disneylanders though is that some are quick to forget history. It wasn't so long ago that WDW was the undisputed leader in quality. Under Pressler/Harriss (during which time I worked at the Park), our facility conditions were deplorable and it was depressing to see the decay at the Park. At that time, WDW could do no wrong. At that time, WDW still hosted Show Conferences for the other worldwide Disney parks and Facilities teams came back in awe at the amazing things WDW was doing. MK's cycle program was the envy of the industry. In essence, everyone at DL had the same envy of WDW that now WDW has of DL's condition.

WDW is in a tough spot right now. It will be interesting to see how Corporate handles it. On the one hand, yes, WDW must be kept up because a drop off at WDW will be more noticeable because there are so many more revenue streams coming from a single family than at Disneyland. So you can't afford not to keep people coming back for more. You can't afford not to keep up the pace of a new E-Ticket spread across each Park every so often. But at the same time, the Resort is almost 36. When Disneyland turned 35, that's when our infrastructure issues started to surface too. Ultimately, it was easier for us to fix b/c, after all, we are several hundred acres compared to WDW's 47 square miles (albeit, obviously not all of that is developed acreage). It will be a huge cost for Disney to maintain the aging infrastructure of WDW. I really will be curious to see how it's handled.

Sorry for the length, guys!

 

[GymLeaderPhil]

I refuse to feed the troll, but oh well...

There are many days in off season when MK becomes a half day park. You can walk on to pirates, HM, JC, and have 10 to 20 minute waits for Splash and BTMR and many people including the annual visitor spend a ½ day there, get it done and then go elsewhere.

I fail to see how opening an additional attraction would produce more money for that very reason. How do you justify adding an additional operating expense (a new attraction, a new resturant, etc.) when the demand for that is not present even on the slowest of days at the Magic Kingdom? That's like saying let's open a store for Labor Day merchandise, because the store you wanted to go to is packed with customers for that day. Well that's good and all for the week leading up to Labor Day, but let's consider the other fifty-one weeks the store would be open. Do you think that the profits would be justified to have a Labor Day store open then? You are thinking too short-term. That's wasted money. Just because you are not able to ride Space Mountain in twenty minutes during the holidays does not inherently justify a Disneyland-esque building/refurbishment spree.

Too add to this - if the Magic Kindgom was in any way or shape dealing with the same capacity issues as Disneyland (has/was) there are several areas that would be open right now: Adventureland Terrace, Aunt Polly's, El Pirata y el Perico, Galaxy Palace Theater, Tomorrowland Terrace, and Town Square Exposition Hall to name a few. That's not even mentioning the quick fixes they could make to the Skyway stations to make them stores or counter service areas, nor is it even considering evicting the characters from the tent in Toontown to make a return for a stage show in that area. Heck they could even erect the Magic Music Days stage in Tomorrowland. Aside from Aunt Polly's, El Pirata, and the Tomorrowland Terrace during very peak periods - none of the others are open.

The Magic Kindgom is not Disneyland.

 

[JimboJones123]

zzz

 

[JimboJones123]

zzz

 

[ToTBellHop]

The MK "naturally" gets more 1st of day clicks than other parks? Um...no. Absolute nonsense. The only park that you could argue sees an artificial inflation would be Animal Kingdom due to its lack of any nighttime entertainment, so if you are going to visit AK, it is more likely to be your first visit of the day. The other three parks have a few productions that you apparently have never heard of, CarlHS: Wishes, SpectroMagic, IllumiNations, and Fantasmic, and supposing the average guest, who pays for a Park Hopper, will probably want to see Wishes and/or Spectro as many times as they want to see IllumiNations and Fantasmic, your idea is faulty.


As several have reiterated here and you seem to ignore or simply not understand, the Walt Disney World Resort is VERY different from the Disneyland Resort.

Your laptop analogy is ridiculous. The MK already has a top of the line laptop, and that's the reason it can process 16,000,000 bits of data each year, no problem, whereas poor MGM up the street is still running an abacus and can barely run 8,000,000 computations a year. Why needlessly upgrade the MK's RAM when its existing hardware is more than sufficient (though it can certainly use a quick cleaning from time to time to blow the dust off) while MGM is going to light itself on fire one of these days from trying to function with its dilapidated abacus? At least get it up to Windows XP standards.


How's high school treating you, Carl? Any girlfriends?

 

[JimboJones123]

zzz

 

[flynnibus]

If Disney could fill the parks with 1 day ticket buyers they would love it, but they can’t, there are not that many stupid people. That’s why the 6th plus days on a 6 or more day pass is about $10 per day and also why there are APs to begin with. Disney is doing everything they can to get people into the parks, APs, DVC, Meal Plan, Epcot after 4, etc. The one thing their not doing that they should is to build a new E-Ticket at MK… (…and honestly, the other parks could each use one).

Who said anything about 1 day ticket buyers? And yes, they'd love that, but that ticket is INTENTIONALLY overpriced to entice people to spend more on multi-day tickets, and guilt people into staying at Disney rather then going somewhere else because they've already paid for the ticket.

You fail to understand the founding concept... YOU PREFER FULL PRICE PATRONS! Discount patrons you use to fill in capacity and fill in the low spots. In this case, 'full price' also applies to 'full pocket book' patrons. Those with greater spending potential. The guest who is making their bi-annual (or longer) pilgrimage to WDW is more lucrative to fill the gates with then returning AP holders. You use Discount patrons (AP holders) to fill in what you don't fill in with full price patrons (or full pocket book patrons).

The last thing you want is discount patrons pushing out full price patrons.. which is exactly why the cheaper AP programs have blackout dates (and very large blackout periods in DLR where there are so many AP holders).

There is an art to manipulating the customer.. the way you structure your pricing and values to steer the customer to the buying habits you want. This is not to say Disney doesn't want APs.. they do.. they increase their take of a guest's disposible income.. but its a balencing act to ensure your discount audience (and revenues) do not swamp out your fuller priced, and more lucrative guests.

This is the problem other parks like Six Flags and Universal suffer from.. they've discounted so heavily and made it so universal across the board.. they can't get anything BUT heavily discounted tickets sold.

Look at it this way, the APs have blackout dates to "force" the APs to come when attendence is low.

No, the blackout dates are to PREVENT discount sales from taking away from higher priced sales. Its about capacity and steering buying decisions. This has a desirable side effect of pushing sold discount capacity into the lower volume season.

If you deleted the APs (and even the off season DVCs) you would have even lower attendence on the off season. Disney can't afford empty resturants so they have to encourage locals to come off season via APs.

It boils back to your rediculous comment that the parks would be half as full without the APs.. which is rediculous. You fail to understand that a VERY large percentage of AP holders in WDW are AP holders not because they will visit 5-10 times, but because its simply cheaper to buy an AP if you are making 2 long trips to WDW within a year. The audience you are stereotyping is more the FL Resident Pass holders, which is very different from the full valued AP program.

Yes, Disney needs to attract more guests in the lower volume seasons.. and that is why they offer Discount Programs (like the DDP freebie promos, etc)... but that is because they are trying to FILL vacant capacity. They would still prefer NOT to discount.. but nearly every business discounts to help fill in the voids or lows.

Side note for the complaining visitors about APs clogging the lines during peak seasons - most APs cannot come to the parks then, and those who can usually don't, and so it's the bulk of the visitors blocking up the lines.

Again you generically label 'ap' as the Florida Pass holders.. very different numbers there. when you talk about total Pass holders, there are very different demographics and spending patterns when you are comparing FL pass holders and general AP holders.

 

[CarlHS]

Anyway, what has dismayed me about my fellow Disneylanders though is that some are quick to forget history. It wasn't so long ago that WDW was the undisputed leader in quality. Under Pressler/Harriss (during which time I worked at the Park), our facility conditions were deplorable and it was depressing to see the decay at the Park. At that time, WDW could do no wrong. At that time, WDW still hosted Show Conferences for the other worldwide Disney parks and Facilities teams came back in awe at the amazing things WDW was doing. MK's cycle program was the envy of the industry. In essence, everyone at DL had the same envy of WDW that now WDW has of DL's condition.

This is exactly what's been happening at MK and needs to stop. Disney should learn from it's own lessons.

 

[CarlHS]

I fail to see how opening an additional attraction would produce more money for that very reason. How do you justify adding an additional operating expense (a new attraction, a new resturant, etc.) when the demand for that is not present even on the slowest of days at the Magic Kingdom? That's like saying let's open a store for Labor Day merchandise, because the store you wanted to go to is packed with customers for that day. Well that's good and all for the week leading up to Labor Day, but let's consider the other fifty-one weeks the store would be open. Do you think that the profits would be justified to have a Labor Day store open then? You are thinking too short-term. That's wasted money. Just because you are not able to ride Space Mountain in twenty minutes during the holidays does not inherently justify a Disneyland-esque building/refurbishment spree.

Too add to this - if the Magic Kindgom was in any way or shape dealing with the same capacity issues as Disneyland (has/was) there are several areas that would be open right now: Adventureland Terrace, Aunt Polly's, El Pirata y el Perico, Galaxy Palace Theater, Tomorrowland Terrace, and Town Square Exposition Hall to name a few. That's not even mentioning the quick fixes they could make to the Skyway stations to make them stores or counter service areas, nor is it even considering evicting the characters from the tent in Toontown to make a return for a stage show in that area. Heck they could even erect the Magic Music Days stage in Tomorrowland. Aside from Aunt Polly's, El Pirata, and the Tomorrowland Terrace during very peak periods - none of the others are open.

The stats say different, Every park that added significant attractions world wide experienced and average of 8% growth, those that did nothing, flat or slight improovment (MK saw 4% attendence growth, but most due to Everest). Everest boosted AK by a 1,000,000 plus, which pays for the attraction cost in less than a year, if eacy of those extra people spent only $20, and we all know they spend more than that. Furthermore, you all keep claiming WDW is a cash cow, which it is. The difference is the cash goes elsewhere (Paris, HK, even DL). This is where I'm getting the cash to operate...

How can you say the demand is not present when 16,000,000 people show up? The point is are the staying, or jumping to another park? With all these thing closed, it's no wonder they shift to Epcot or MGM for dinner, or go off property to eat.

 

[jt04]

The stats say different, Every park that added significant attractions world wide experienced and average of 8% growth, those that did nothing, flat or slight improovment (MK saw 4% attendence growth, but most due to Everest). Everest boosted AK by a 1,000,000 plus, which pays for the attraction cost in less than a year, if eacy of those extra people spent only $20, and we all know they spend more than that. Furthermore, you all keep claiming WDW is a cash cow, which it is. The difference is the cash goes elsewhere (Paris, HK, even DL). This is where I'm getting the cash to operate...

How can you say the demand is not present when 16,000,000 people show up? The point is are the staying, or jumping to another park? With all these thing closed, it's no wonder they shift to Epcot or MGM for dinner, or go off property to eat.

EXACTLY!! WDW has always had to subsidize other mistakes. You forgot ABC TV. Fortunately I think Paris has turned around and ESPN and other media can carry ABC. So maybe, just maybe they can invest WDW money back into WDW. Just a thought.

 

[CarlHS]

Remember ISTCNavigator, you're better than this. If you can't tell by now, he'll just reply by saying that you don't understand how computers really work and how you wouldn't be updating the RAM when you could always have a bigger monitor. Thus creating a cross metaphor that doesn't reflect the initial metaphor agian. It's been a circle every reply that has no intent but to say "I'm more smarter". I've never ignored anybody on this board. Until now.

Your original analogy was a lap top represents a ride, and your kids represent a park, jumbo. How convenient it to continually change your own theories, when they don't work...

 

[CarlHS]

It boils back to your rediculous comment that the parks would be half as full without the APs.. which is rediculous. You fail to understand that a VERY large percentage of AP holders in WDW are AP holders not because they will visit 5-10 times, but because its simply cheaper to buy an AP if you are making 2 long trips to WDW within a year. The audience you are stereotyping is more the FL Resident Pass holders, which is very different from the full valued AP program.

Yes, Disney needs to attract more guests in the lower volume seasons.. and that is why they offer Discount Programs (like the DDP freebie promos, etc)... but that is because they are trying to FILL vacant capacity. They would still prefer NOT to discount.. but nearly every business discounts to help fill in the voids or lows.

I am including Florida APs, because they are APs or Preimum APs. The are not resident passes, but actually called "Annual Passes". When I said if you removed the APs and DVC's during OFF SEASON you would halv 1/2 full parks, I was not far off. The Visitors, do not come during off season (jobs, school, etc.). All these programs (AP, FL AP, Epcot after 4, DVC, etc) combined bring attendence up in slow periods and that's why they were developed! You are right, if you only removed the out of state pasholders it would not matter all that much.

 

[JimboJones123]

zzz

 

[CarlHS]

BREAKING NEWS: THE DISAGREEMENT ENDS AT LAST!

I've stuck to one point. Big MK updates are unnecessary for at least a few more years. You can maybe get by 4-5 with only 1/2 minor attractions added if that. It could easily be 5+ years without something major and it wouldn't cause any damage to the bottom line.

You’ve stuck to none of your points! Here you are changing your tune again. All this time you’ve been saying NO NEW E-TICKET FOR MK! Now you’re saying “A FEW MORE YEARS”. It takes 2 plus years to build and a year to design. So I guess you’re admitting they should get started pretty soon on “Mount Jimbo, Journey into Inconsistency”.

This comment of your’s is in full agreement with my consistent point: MK IS DUE FOR A (REPEAT ‘A’, or insert ‘1’, ‘ONE’, ‘A SINGLE’ or ‘THE NUMBER BETWEEN 0 AND 2) E-TICKET. One last time, repeat after me, MK IS DUE FOR A NEW E-TICKET.

You clearly can't see that as even a possible exceptable plan. And for some reason you have to scattershoot to other subjects that I have never refered to. I'm now going to the ignore. It's different when people want to debate, but when it's now CLEARLY become either trolling or for other reasons (Bothan?)......

It most certainly is an acceptable plan! It’s the plan I’ve been suggesting all along! Thank you for seeing it my way! Another convert to the powers of light!

 

[cmatt]

...eurgh words fail me right now...

 

[tirian]

Sorry folks, its a simple cost/benefit ratio. Will bringing a 100+ million dollar E-Ticket to the Magic Kingdom encourage 200+ million dollars worth of business? Can the Magic Kingdom even sustain 200+ million dollars worth of business. Keep in mind, the park has been seeing record capacities in the last year or two, do you really think that an E-Ticket would encourage an additional 15,000 fence-sitters to vacation at Walt Disney World? No? Neither did I.

You're right, but the WDW leadership is determined to bring either 1 solid E-ticket or a few D-tickets into the park to make sure it doesn't stagnate. The philosophy is, "If you're not moving, you're dead."

However, as you and I have both noted several times, the MK's focus is on refurbishing its existing attractions that haven't seen TLC in over a decade. Any new attractions are a long way off. The MK doesn't need them to be successful, and there's nothing wrong with spreading attraction out to the various WDW theme parks to complete the Guest's experience. Everything doesn't need to be crammed into one park like DL!

And on a personal note, 20K is dead, gone, and buried (quite literally). It had terrible capacity, was a maintenence nightmare, and a logistical folly. All for an attraction with dated effects, no emergency access, and a crawling queue.

This might shock some WDW members, but I'm not terribly nostalgic about the subs for the same reason. Honestly, was the ride really that great? No. Mr. Toad and Alien Encounter were much better attractions that never should have been axed. (But Pooh is one of my favorite dark rides at the American Disney parks.)

And Fire Mountain/Bald Mountain? Never on the radar, never have been, never will be. Anyone who says otherwise needs to stop talking to contract bit players and interns.

They were blue-sky projects, tossed around but never completely planned, as opposed to "Beastly Kingdomme" at AK, which has fully finished models sitting in a warehouse. WDI did test heights with balloons in Adventureland, but hardly anyone knows for certain why the tests were conducted.

 

[ToTBellHop]

The stats say different, Every park that added significant attractions world wide experienced and average of 8% growth, those that did nothing, flat or slight improovment (MK saw 4% attendence growth, but most due to Everest). Everest boosted AK by a 1,000,000 plus, which pays for the attraction cost in less than a year, if eacy of those extra people spent only $20, and we all know they spend more than that. Furthermore, you all keep claiming WDW is a cash cow, which it is. The difference is the cash goes elsewhere (Paris, HK, even DL). This is where I'm getting the cash to operate...

How can you say the demand is not present when 16,000,000 people show up? The point is are the staying, or jumping to another park? With all these thing closed, it's no wonder they shift to Epcot or MGM for dinner, or go off property to eat.

Fuzzy math if ever I saw it: 1,000,000 extra guests at $20 each pays off a $100,000,000 ride? I think your calculator is broken.

 

[JimboJones123]

zzz