Me too, It's kept me here for days, when I usually hit once or twice a week.
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It's the Tourists...
- Thread starter CarlHS
- Start date
Me too, It's kept me here for days, when I usually hit once or twice a week.
Enderikari
Well-Known Member
See, I think the big miscommunication comes in the problem of immediacy. I really don't believe that anyone, including Jimbo, is arguing that the Magic Kingdom will never need another E-Ticket. That's just foolish. As Michael Eisner was famous for saying, "If something isn't growing, it is going to die."
However, Carl, you seem to be stating that the Magic Kingdom is lacking an E-ticket RIGHT NOW. That is also pretty foolish. Once again, I point out the fact that the Magic Kingdom is the busiest theme park in the world. Its doesn't immediately need the help. Right now, its not missing anything. It's all well and good to say "every Disney Theme Park needs a new E-Ticket right now." Its fun to conjecture about what that E-ticket attraction might be. But realit is, Disney simply cannot put a new E-Ticket attraction into each park, now or ever. Priorities must be, and have been set. And those priorities denote the Magic Kingdom getting some substantial refurbs, and a new attraction put on hiatus. Which is perfectly fine with me, and makes sense, from a business and common sense perspective.
Will the Magic Kingdom get an E-Ticket in the future? No doubt, how far along is in question. I think a good time frame to start the process (which can take a considerable amount of time) is in the next 5-7 years.
Right now? Its not needed, not wanted, not warranted, and not necessary.
And Kevin Yee? What can I say about him that I haven't already?
However, Carl, you seem to be stating that the Magic Kingdom is lacking an E-ticket RIGHT NOW. That is also pretty foolish. Once again, I point out the fact that the Magic Kingdom is the busiest theme park in the world. Its doesn't immediately need the help. Right now, its not missing anything. It's all well and good to say "every Disney Theme Park needs a new E-Ticket right now." Its fun to conjecture about what that E-ticket attraction might be. But realit is, Disney simply cannot put a new E-Ticket attraction into each park, now or ever. Priorities must be, and have been set. And those priorities denote the Magic Kingdom getting some substantial refurbs, and a new attraction put on hiatus. Which is perfectly fine with me, and makes sense, from a business and common sense perspective.
Will the Magic Kingdom get an E-Ticket in the future? No doubt, how far along is in question. I think a good time frame to start the process (which can take a considerable amount of time) is in the next 5-7 years.
Right now? Its not needed, not wanted, not warranted, and not necessary.
And Kevin Yee? What can I say about him that I haven't already?
CBOMB
Active Member
Might I suggest a Magners instead.
Now what was the topic again...Oh Yeah, AP vs. regular guest (I just can't think of myself as a tourist). After several brillant post by flynnibus, I would appear stupid to comment, other than to agree with everything he said. I swear he must have a Phd in Economics. WDW wants them both, but their bread, and butter is the day guest.
Now let me throw my thoughts in on the Rumble. A new E-ticket for the MK would be great, I'm sure there are several ideas in the planning stage. Yes to many attractions have been removed from the MK without replacements. The bottomline however is it still packs them in at a clip of 16 million a year. Spend your budget on cleaning, refurb., and maintainence at the MK. Get that strip mall feeling out of Main Street. Go back to specialized merchandise. Make sure those MS vehicles are out everyday all day. Do not attempt to make everything centered on Pirates, and princesses. You know the routine, get back to the roots of what Disney is really all about. Spend the big bucks on DHS, AK, and Epcot in that order.
Very Diplomatic. It's pretty simple what I'm saying. MK has lost several attractions (approx 6) without replacement. It is my opinion that the cutbacks at the MK have gone on long enough, and it's time for one of those deletions to be replaced with something new.
Does it need to be tomorrow? Of course not, it's not possible. The cutbacks can stop tomorrow though.
Would Walt have endorsed these deletions without replacement? I highly doubt it.
I'm trying to get the point across that the philosophy of management needs to change. Just because they can get away with closing things down without replacement, doesn’t mean it’s the best long term strategy, it’s just short term thinking. DL has figured this out, WDW has not, but perhaps they are starting to.
I'm not saying the MK “needs help”, it needs to stop cutting back when it's the busiest park, and at the very least it should have as much as it had 10 years ago. This is the time it should be reinvested in.
“Not wanted” – I think there are plenty who would say they want it.
CSUFSteve
Active Member
I'm not sure I'd agree on this point. We have a TON of dead space throughout the Park if you know where to look. In a region where acreage is at a premium, it seems ridiculous to have so much land sitting around that is doing nothing. We lost a lot of attractions during the Pressler/Harris stranglehold that have not been replaced.
This is one of the things that Tony is purported to wanting to fix as a first priority, before moving on to bigger ticket items (since the focus is on DCA and other resort areas first). Another item increasingly gaining traction is for crowd-scooper attractions. With the resurgence of Disneyland attendance, crowd control is a serious issue. A more compelling DCA would obviously help but in the meantime, Disneyland needs to alleviate ground traffic. With things like Circlevision, PeopleMover, Festival Arena, Fantasyland Theatre, a compelling use of the Innventions building, Bear Band, Skyway, and even Keel Boats all gone, it means more people are on the street. You can argue Buzz replaced Circlevision, but Circlevision kept a theatre of people off the street for 20 mins or so. I personally think the loss of 3 restaurant locations (more during the Pressler/Harris regime) is also an issue b/c it means others are more crowded.
There are lots of ideas for crowd-scooper type attractions - no one quite agrees of course. Hopefully Tony sorts this out and Park mgmt buys into his plans.
Sam Eagle 1776
Member
That is a good point. I don't see much reason to not replace previously shut down rides!
Enderikari
Well-Known Member
CarlHS said:
I agree, its real simple. I count 1 3/4. Show me where you got 6. The Skyway was taken out and never replaced, so, you are right about that one. 20K leagues was taken out and very partially replaced, leaving a small playground and a large lot for further expansion. Everything else has been replaced
CarlHS said:
Walt closed 7 attractions in Disneyland's first 5 years. UFO's have since never been replaced, neither has the mule ride.
Dragonrider1227
Well-Known Member
He makes an interesting point, but I didn't really see a capacity problem on my last visit which was in June. I think that's a peak time, right? The MK I think is alright in the rides department. We spent the whole day there and still didn't get to do everything we wanted. Studios, AK, and possibly Epcot could though
UFO's is not sitting there as a vacant building or vacant lot. Don't recall what's there now...
Mule ride became Mine Train which then became Thunder Mountain.
I know Walt removed things, but he always put something better in it's place...
Appologies if an error occurs below (this is from my sive-like memory).
LOST AND NOT REPLACED:
Mike Fink Keelboats
Davy Crockett Explorer Canoes
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Skyway to Tomorrowland
Skyway to Fantasyland (Hey Disney counted them as two attractions...)
Sword in the Stone
Swan Boats (ride in the hub canal)
Main Street Vehicles (in part)
Admiral Joe Fowler Riverboat
Disney Afternoon Avenue (Stage show in Toontown)
Golden Horseshoe Review (and moving characters from the street inside is not a replacement)
High School Musical (moved to MGM) (Does the stage area in TL do anything anymore?)
Main Street Cinema no longer a Cinema.
WEAKENED:
Exposition Hall (Pin Trading site … Yahoo, Anything Else?)
Does Belle's Book Recital area still operate?
There used to be 2 parades and 2 fireworks (now usually just 1, or occasionally none if a Hard Ticket is kicking you out.)
Probably missing a few things still...
RESTURANTS CLOSED:
Adventureland Veranda
Several others operate seasonally.
GAINED:
Pooh's Playful Spot (quite the upgrade there)
Magic Carpet’s of Alladin (TBD, can’t find a start date)
Barnstormers at Goofy’s Wiseacre Farm (TBD, can’t find a start date)
Time to rip out Space Mountain and put in some swing sets...
... further expansion. Haa Haa Haa! That's the funniest thing I've read in this thread. The last expansion was Splash in 1992. The empty lot that was 20K at best will become a replacement. An expansion implies expanding into new ground, not contracting from what you once had.
Enderikari
Well-Known Member
Ahh, the only ones on your list that count, and even the first two are questionable. The keelboats and canoes were a double-whammy of boredom, at best an A-Ticket
Entertainment offerings are not attractions, I counter the removal of Sword in the Stone with the introduction of PUSH, the Toontown Tuners, or Captain Jack's Pirate Tutorial (which can occupy a much larger group, and doesn't focus on one lucky kid)
The Swan Boats were removed before you were even born, son. Utterly without a point, one can make a case that they never should have opened in the first place.
In part? What does that mean, in part? Main Street Vehicles still drone down Main Street, blocking walkways, whenever they can, and are still put to daily use. So, what does in part mean?
Walt Disney Story theater went down to one of two theaters, and now is a small draw called the "Milestones of Disney Animation" where guests can relax in air conditioning and watch classics like Steamboat Willie, Flowers and Trees, and The Band Concert (three points if you can name the milestone)
Eatery does not equal attraction, stay on task Carl
Better dinner shows to be had at Hoop de Doo, and Spirit of Aloha, that don't involve having hundreds of guests line up at City Hall for a day-of reservation, since the entertainment is available elsewhere, its a wash
It does, thanks for the question.
It does, several times a day. And, BTW, its called Storytime with Belle
2 parades happened just about every night in the summer, which is also the only time where 2 parades happened in the past as well. Also, NO TIME BEFORE 2006 WAS THERE EVER TWO FIREWORK SHOWS IN THE SAME DAY that wasn't a very special event. They simply didn't have the capability. So, you just kind of shot yourself in the foot with that one, especially, when you look into what used to happen at Walt Disney World, on most days in the off season, the fireworks only played once a week, with the parade being held once a week, and never on the same day as the fireworks (unless it was summer).
Take your pick, moved to replace Walt Disney Story (which was moved to a better, more thourough location at Disney-MGM Studios. Or moved to replace Mickey Mouse Revue in Fantasyland, or was it Magic Eye?
I am not going to spend the time to list all the things that have been gained since the Swan Boats left (using your rather dubious time schedule) Suffice it to say, you are grasping at straws. The Magic Kingdom is the Most Popular Theme Park in the World made for millions, not your personal stomping grounds, catering to only the changes you want.CarlHS said:
And empty land is empty land, 20K is great real estate for the type of things you want to come to the MK, you can't build an E-ticket without the land to build it on.
The Diamond Horseshoe was actually a great experience, and I can't fathom why they'd get rid of it all together. Whenever we went it was always full of people. Hoop De Doo is a good show, but I wouldn't use it as an excuse to take out the original in Frontierland. There isn't much else for indoor live entertainment in MK. And I don't remember having trouble with reservations.
JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
I will no longer feed this pointlessness here or elsewhere.
Still deleted without replacement, but fine I’ll ditch it from the list below. I also added you’re recent “new attractions”. Even PUSH (which I don’t recall ever making it onto the map as an attraction, but…)
Sorry, those shows are not included in the price of admission to the park.
LOST AND NOT REPLACED: 11 TOTAL
Mike Fink Keelboats
Davy Crockett Explorer Canoes
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Skyway to Tomorrowland
Skyway to Fantasyland (Hey Disney counted them as two attractions...)
Sword in the Stone
Admiral Joe Fowler Riverboat
Disney Afternoon Avenue (Stage show in Toontown)
Golden Horseshoe Review (still gone, still counts)
High School Musical (moved to MGM, no replacement)
Main Street Cinema no longer a Cinema.
GAINED: 6 TOTAL
Pooh's Playful Spot (quite the upgrade there)
Magic Carpet’s of Alladin (TBD, can’t find a start date)
Barnstormers at Goofy’s Wiseacre Farm (TBD, can’t find a start date)
PUSH (Talking Trashcan – Yahoo – Let’s put another one next to the swing sets)
Toontown Tuners
Captain Jack's Pirate Tutorial
My original statement “about 6 lost attractions” still stands.
And you have used Pooh’s Spot and a replacement to an E-Ticket.
And a talking Trash Can as the equivalent to an attraction.
Which is exactly why it should be capable of more. When you have to stoop to counting a trash can (what is that a C or possibly a D ticket in your book?) as an attraction you are showing that I’m right. There’s no reason that this park shouldn’t be able to afford a new E-Ticket. MK should not only be the most attended, it should be the best!
There’s so much land at MK it’s not even funny. There’s room for half a dozen major new attractions.
Enderikari
Well-Known Member
CarlHS said:
Nope, never said that PUSH would be an C or D ticket, but it is equivelent to the Sword in the Stone Ceremony.
Listen, I am not going to sit here and post all the things that the MK has added/subtracted since the park opened in 1971. To do so would be an inglorious waste of my time.
I believe that the MK is the best theme park in the Walt Disney World resort, and I have 16 million people who visited who help me back up my position.
You have grousing, and the false nostalgia of Kevin Yee, who can't even write a book about 101 Things at Walt Disney World without getting half of them wrong.
The Magic Kingdom is doing great. The Haunted Mansion comes back from Refurbishment on September 13th. Other attractions are planned for some sprucing up soon. I laugh while I am seeing the Monster's Inc. Laugh Floor, and my daughter enjoys Pooh's Playful Spot.
You? Judging by the baseless observations made here and in other posts (I noticed you had to delete a whole diatribe earlier today), you obviously have no understanding of underlying business practices, of reasonable assumptions, or even of common sense.
I like a good argument; I LOVE a great argument, but I detest this.
I think I will be joining Jimbo and others by saying this is the last time I will post to this thread. But, seeing as how I don't want to be dragged down into another argument in the future, I think I will go that extra step and add you to my ignore list.
I hope you finally find enjoyment in visiting Disney Parks again, Carl. I wish I could bring back the magic of the first time you set foot into a park, the marvel and the spectacle of seeing Cinderella Castle for the first time, of meeting your hero Mickey Mouse live and in person. But I can't. There is a law of diminishing returns; like reading a book several times over. A new ride or new attraction may stem that tide for a visit or two, but it is unreasonable to expect Disney to open up something new for you for every visit.
The magic isn't in a new ride, or a new attraction. The magic is how YOU feel when you step inside the park. Sure, they have the best fireworks shows, the best parades, and the best rides; but those only go so far. You have to believe.
Good bye and good luck, Carl
Enderikari
Which basically means you have nothing left within the parameters.
It's funny how you guys are the first ones to whine about MGM or AK or Epcot (and usually all three). Epcot has one closed down facility and you whiners mention it every chance you get! Jimbo even complained that a new attraction would make the lines get longer. How selfish. We should all want the lines to get longer, that means growth.
Then someone comes on here with a legitimate position on the attraction development and management at MK and a legitimate demonstration on how it can be improved (DL, talk about jealousy) and you call out the wolves, attack with inept insults and name calling and then try to claim the moral high road saying "I don't want to play with you anymore". You don't even have the ba//s to admit the MK is down an E-Ticket, referencing Garbage Cans and Play Grounds in your defense argument.
YES, I agree (for the 50th time), MK is a great park with great attendance. I do not think it's the best park on the planet, but it could and should be.
NO, it is not perfect or finished or "good enough". Again Walt would not have said it was "good enough".
I'm looking forward to true expansion at the MK, and I think Lassiter's oversight and response to Potter Land will bring in a new era. I'll be there to enjoy it, hope you don't get too frustrated when they add on.
My what a heated thread...
I am new here but a longtime WDW and DL visitor, and DVC owner. My two cents...
DL was always more fun than MK. DL's Pirates ride still blows MK's completely away... something about floating through that swamp, past the cabin and through the trees while the fireflies flicker... and the rest of the ride is just better too. I was actually a bit disappointed with the big MK Pirate refurb as I felt much more could have been done, than was actually done. There are several big expanses that could have, should have had vignettes that are just completely barren.
I did see the new Haunted Mansion refurb this past week. I felt it was a much bigger improvement overall than the Pirates one. Floating Leota's suspension cable is obvious though - they need to tweak the lighting a bit to hide it.
Main Street.. crowded as it can be, it still has pockets of unused space, amazingly enough. More could be done with it. Thank goodness this week when we were there, the "Right Down the Middle of Main Street" debacle was not running. My husband and I actually made up alternative lyrics for the song years ago... "right down the middle of Main Street USA... Because my job is to dance around and block your way..." and it goes on. We're convinced the whole thing is a ploy to force you to walk through the shops and spend money, since the street and sidewalks become impassable with people struggling to get around this show. :ROFLOL:
MK Adventureland entrance from the hub has become an abandoned passage with a couple of distractions on your way to Pirates and Frontierland. Much of it is just closed storefronts with occasional character lines under the awnings. Of all the lands, it has the most barren and abandoned feel when you cross the bridge and enter it. Regardless of whatever politics and personalities were involved, the Indiana Jones ride or something like it should have been added to MK Adventureland a decade ago. It really is in dire need of a new top-notch ride of some kind.
I was glad to see that Aladdin's Magic Carpets is scheduled for rehab soon. It is in high need of maintenance; it is looking shabby and when we were there last week one of the carpets was even tarped and unusable. They were running the ride anyway, short a carpet.
Frontierland is still holding up... Splash Mountain and Thunder Mountain are tried and true, we still enjoy them immensely. The town area of Frontierland could use some TLC, though the Western town theme is more forgiving of lazy upkeep than the other lands, since weatherbeaten and scruffy is "in" there.
Fantasyland... has become IgnoreItLand for our family. The area really just needs improvements all over- from queueing to cleaning. We venture in there to see PhilharMagic and to cross that top quadrant of the park.
Ariel's Grotto and the Pooh playground have become eyesores. The Pooh playground was closed last week - I don't know if it was for maintenance or if the are going to do away with it (please!). (Honestly why buy expensive APs to go climb on plastic playground equipment - we can do that for free at home. Taking out a ride attraction and replacing it with a poorly designed playground = not good!) The ongoing conversion of areas to character photo lines and simple playgrounds truly needs to stop- it certainly isn't going to generate repeat business; once you have a few photos with Mickey, you don't want to pay for admission to go get more.
Tomorrowland... I still love Tomorrowland. It, too, needs a lot of TLC right now, most especially some updated theming. The rides there are still fun... we love Buzz and ride it repeatedly, our son loves the Laugh Floor (though it's different- and seemed shorter- now than it was when we saw it during the AP preview). The Indy cars, despite the stink, are still a hit and Space Mountain seems to just keep chugging. But an overall theming upgrade, all across the exteriors in Tomorrowland, would make a huge difference. What was futuristic decades ago hardly looks it anymore - it looks retro 50s now. The window displays along the PeopleMover ride need to be updated desperately, as well.
And I know purists argue that Carousel of Progress should be kept and all that.. but it's terrible and woefully outdated (so sorry, it is!). And closed for 80-90 percent of the year anyway. Nor have I ever seen anything in that Galaxy Theater, and I spend 2 weeks a year on WDW property. There is SO much wasted space in MK, it kills me to think what could be done if they'd only DO it.
Sadly they seem to be turning quite a tidy profit by doing marginal refurbs, adding hair-gel boutiques and not adding new rides. (Yes, I am a castle lover who is highly annoyed that the castle shop was replaced with another goop factory for little girls, and the restaurant is now all Princess all the time!).
Mostly the draw these days seems to be the ubiquitious and plentiful character lines - you cannot turn around anywhere in the park without at least one being within eyeshot, usually multiples. MGM is just as bad. I am really beginning to see why people say their teenagers do not want to go to WDW. Once you outgrow hugging people in fuzzy suits, the park-based entertainment can get to be a bit thin.
I hope Potter Land helps kick Disney in the pants. I don't think Universal will do that well with it over the long haul, as I have found their park to be poorly kept when I went there - within a few years after it opens, no doubt, Potter Land will be in disrepair as well. It's also an open question whether opening in 2010 will even generate much interest so far past the Potter-mania era as it might have in the last 2-3 years. But perhaps having some big time, big name competition will force WDW to focus a bit more of the cash cow's cash back on the cow instead of shipping it out of state to support other parts of the company.
Anyway... my two cents. I can't really argue attraction lists or E tickets. All I know is the park is feeling run down and the only new things we saw in this year's MK are more character lines and a hair gel boutique!
I have been watching the changes to the EPCOT entrance area surrounding Spaceship Earth with great interest. I like them - I think just this kind of cleanup and refresh could do wonders for parts of MK, most especially Adventureland and Tomorrowland. I hope they keep going with park improvements over the next decade.
I am new here but a longtime WDW and DL visitor, and DVC owner. My two cents...
DL was always more fun than MK. DL's Pirates ride still blows MK's completely away... something about floating through that swamp, past the cabin and through the trees while the fireflies flicker... and the rest of the ride is just better too. I was actually a bit disappointed with the big MK Pirate refurb as I felt much more could have been done, than was actually done. There are several big expanses that could have, should have had vignettes that are just completely barren.
I did see the new Haunted Mansion refurb this past week. I felt it was a much bigger improvement overall than the Pirates one. Floating Leota's suspension cable is obvious though - they need to tweak the lighting a bit to hide it.
Main Street.. crowded as it can be, it still has pockets of unused space, amazingly enough. More could be done with it. Thank goodness this week when we were there, the "Right Down the Middle of Main Street" debacle was not running. My husband and I actually made up alternative lyrics for the song years ago... "right down the middle of Main Street USA... Because my job is to dance around and block your way..." and it goes on. We're convinced the whole thing is a ploy to force you to walk through the shops and spend money, since the street and sidewalks become impassable with people struggling to get around this show. :ROFLOL:
MK Adventureland entrance from the hub has become an abandoned passage with a couple of distractions on your way to Pirates and Frontierland. Much of it is just closed storefronts with occasional character lines under the awnings. Of all the lands, it has the most barren and abandoned feel when you cross the bridge and enter it. Regardless of whatever politics and personalities were involved, the Indiana Jones ride or something like it should have been added to MK Adventureland a decade ago. It really is in dire need of a new top-notch ride of some kind.
I was glad to see that Aladdin's Magic Carpets is scheduled for rehab soon. It is in high need of maintenance; it is looking shabby and when we were there last week one of the carpets was even tarped and unusable. They were running the ride anyway, short a carpet.
Frontierland is still holding up... Splash Mountain and Thunder Mountain are tried and true, we still enjoy them immensely. The town area of Frontierland could use some TLC, though the Western town theme is more forgiving of lazy upkeep than the other lands, since weatherbeaten and scruffy is "in" there.
Fantasyland... has become IgnoreItLand for our family. The area really just needs improvements all over- from queueing to cleaning. We venture in there to see PhilharMagic and to cross that top quadrant of the park.
Ariel's Grotto and the Pooh playground have become eyesores. The Pooh playground was closed last week - I don't know if it was for maintenance or if the are going to do away with it (please!). (Honestly why buy expensive APs to go climb on plastic playground equipment - we can do that for free at home. Taking out a ride attraction and replacing it with a poorly designed playground = not good!) The ongoing conversion of areas to character photo lines and simple playgrounds truly needs to stop- it certainly isn't going to generate repeat business; once you have a few photos with Mickey, you don't want to pay for admission to go get more.
Tomorrowland... I still love Tomorrowland. It, too, needs a lot of TLC right now, most especially some updated theming. The rides there are still fun... we love Buzz and ride it repeatedly, our son loves the Laugh Floor (though it's different- and seemed shorter- now than it was when we saw it during the AP preview). The Indy cars, despite the stink, are still a hit and Space Mountain seems to just keep chugging. But an overall theming upgrade, all across the exteriors in Tomorrowland, would make a huge difference. What was futuristic decades ago hardly looks it anymore - it looks retro 50s now. The window displays along the PeopleMover ride need to be updated desperately, as well.
And I know purists argue that Carousel of Progress should be kept and all that.. but it's terrible and woefully outdated (so sorry, it is!). And closed for 80-90 percent of the year anyway. Nor have I ever seen anything in that Galaxy Theater, and I spend 2 weeks a year on WDW property. There is SO much wasted space in MK, it kills me to think what could be done if they'd only DO it.
Sadly they seem to be turning quite a tidy profit by doing marginal refurbs, adding hair-gel boutiques and not adding new rides. (Yes, I am a castle lover who is highly annoyed that the castle shop was replaced with another goop factory for little girls, and the restaurant is now all Princess all the time!).
Mostly the draw these days seems to be the ubiquitious and plentiful character lines - you cannot turn around anywhere in the park without at least one being within eyeshot, usually multiples. MGM is just as bad. I am really beginning to see why people say their teenagers do not want to go to WDW. Once you outgrow hugging people in fuzzy suits, the park-based entertainment can get to be a bit thin.
I hope Potter Land helps kick Disney in the pants. I don't think Universal will do that well with it over the long haul, as I have found their park to be poorly kept when I went there - within a few years after it opens, no doubt, Potter Land will be in disrepair as well. It's also an open question whether opening in 2010 will even generate much interest so far past the Potter-mania era as it might have in the last 2-3 years. But perhaps having some big time, big name competition will force WDW to focus a bit more of the cash cow's cash back on the cow instead of shipping it out of state to support other parts of the company.
Anyway... my two cents. I can't really argue attraction lists or E tickets. All I know is the park is feeling run down and the only new things we saw in this year's MK are more character lines and a hair gel boutique!
I have been watching the changes to the EPCOT entrance area surrounding Spaceship Earth with great interest. I like them - I think just this kind of cleanup and refresh could do wonders for parts of MK, most especially Adventureland and Tomorrowland. I hope they keep going with park improvements over the next decade.
Enchantâmes
Active Member
Um.. The Carousel of Progress is no longer Seasonal and has been open year round for the last 2 years or so. :wave:My what a heated thread...
I am new here but a longtime WDW and DL visitor, and DVC owner. My two cents...
DL was always more fun than MK. DL's Pirates ride still blows MK's completely away... something about floating through that swamp, past the cabin and through the trees while the fireflies flicker... and the rest of the ride is just better too. I was actually a bit disappointed with the big MK Pirate refurb as I felt much more could have been done, than was actually done. There are several big expanses that could have, should have had vignettes that are just completely barren.
I did see the new Haunted Mansion refurb this past week. I felt it was a much bigger improvement overall than the Pirates one. Floating Leota's suspension cable is obvious though - they need to tweak the lighting a bit to hide it.
Main Street.. crowded as it can be, it still has pockets of unused space, amazingly enough. More could be done with it. Thank goodness this week when we were there, the "Right Down the Middle of Main Street" debacle was not running. My husband and I actually made up alternative lyrics for the song years ago... "right down the middle of Main Street USA... Because my job is to dance around and block your way..." and it goes on. We're convinced the whole thing is a ploy to force you to walk through the shops and spend money, since the street and sidewalks become impassable with people struggling to get around this show. :ROFLOL:
MK Adventureland entrance from the hub has become an abandoned passage with a couple of distractions on your way to Pirates and Frontierland. Much of it is just closed storefronts with occasional character lines under the awnings. Of all the lands, it has the most barren and abandoned feel when you cross the bridge and enter it. Regardless of whatever politics and personalities were involved, the Indiana Jones ride or something like it should have been added to MK Adventureland a decade ago. It really is in dire need of a new top-notch ride of some kind.
I was glad to see that Aladdin's Magic Carpets is scheduled for rehab soon. It is in high need of maintenance; it is looking shabby and when we were there last week one of the carpets was even tarped and unusable. They were running the ride anyway, short a carpet.
Frontierland is still holding up... Splash Mountain and Thunder Mountain are tried and true, we still enjoy them immensely. The town area of Frontierland could use some TLC, though the Western town theme is more forgiving of lazy upkeep than the other lands, since weatherbeaten and scruffy is "in" there.
Fantasyland... has become IgnoreItLand for our family. The area really just needs improvements all over- from queueing to cleaning. We venture in there to see PhilharMagic and to cross that top quadrant of the park.
Ariel's Grotto and the Pooh playground have become eyesores. The Pooh playground was closed last week - I don't know if it was for maintenance or if the are going to do away with it (please!). (Honestly why buy expensive APs to go climb on plastic playground equipment - we can do that for free at home. Taking out a ride attraction and replacing it with a poorly designed playground = not good!) The ongoing conversion of areas to character photo lines and simple playgrounds truly needs to stop- it certainly isn't going to generate repeat business; once you have a few photos with Mickey, you don't want to pay for admission to go get more.
Tomorrowland... I still love Tomorrowland. It, too, needs a lot of TLC right now, most especially some updated theming. The rides there are still fun... we love Buzz and ride it repeatedly, our son loves the Laugh Floor (though it's different- and seemed shorter- now than it was when we saw it during the AP preview). The Indy cars, despite the stink, are still a hit and Space Mountain seems to just keep chugging. But an overall theming upgrade, all across the exteriors in Tomorrowland, would make a huge difference. What was futuristic decades ago hardly looks it anymore - it looks retro 50s now. The window displays along the PeopleMover ride need to be updated desperately, as well.
And I know purists argue that Carousel of Progress should be kept and all that.. but it's terrible and woefully outdated (so sorry, it is!). And closed for 80-90 percent of the year anyway. Nor have I ever seen anything in that Galaxy Theater, and I spend 2 weeks a year on WDW property. There is SO much wasted space in MK, it kills me to think what could be done if they'd only DO it.
Sadly they seem to be turning quite a tidy profit by doing marginal refurbs, adding hair-gel boutiques and not adding new rides. (Yes, I am a castle lover who is highly annoyed that the castle shop was replaced with another goop factory for little girls, and the restaurant is now all Princess all the time!).
Mostly the draw these days seems to be the ubiquitious and plentiful character lines - you cannot turn around anywhere in the park without at least one being within eyeshot, usually multiples. MGM is just as bad. I am really beginning to see why people say their teenagers do not want to go to WDW. Once you outgrow hugging people in fuzzy suits, the park-based entertainment can get to be a bit thin.
I hope Potter Land helps kick Disney in the pants. I don't think Universal will do that well with it over the long haul, as I have found their park to be poorly kept when I went there - within a few years after it opens, no doubt, Potter Land will be in disrepair as well. It's also an open question whether opening in 2010 will even generate much interest so far past the Potter-mania era as it might have in the last 2-3 years. But perhaps having some big time, big name competition will force WDW to focus a bit more of the cash cow's cash back on the cow instead of shipping it out of state to support other parts of the company.
Anyway... my two cents. I can't really argue attraction lists or E tickets. All I know is the park is feeling run down and the only new things we saw in this year's MK are more character lines and a hair gel boutique!
I have been watching the changes to the EPCOT entrance area surrounding Spaceship Earth with great interest. I like them - I think just this kind of cleanup and refresh could do wonders for parts of MK, most especially Adventureland and Tomorrowland. I hope they keep going with park improvements over the next decade.
Not sure that is so.
We were there for 10 days in September 2006, and it was not open.
We were there for 8 days in April 2007 (spring break, when the crowds were extremely high), and it was open for some of those days. We went into it once that trip.
We were just there for 8 days last week, returned home Saturday night, and it was not open any of the four days we ventured into MK.
They used the ramp and the shaded overhang for queueing Buzz Lightyear character photos, as they often do when the attraction itself is closed.They also state in their own literature that CoP is only open seasonally.