It's the Tourists...

[gettingsmaller]

You know, every time I see this topic ("It's the tourists..."), I hear/see Agent Smith saying "It's the smell!"
(reference to the Matrix).

 

[herc]

The article doesn't make any sense.

WDW's attendance continues to increase year after year.

The general public is not complaining at all, only the die-hard internet Disney theme park geeks are.

WDW has survived over 30 years on tourists alone, and tourists have made WDW the most visited tourist destination on earth.

WDW is not for the AP(s), DLR is.

WDW has NOT survived over 30 years on tourists alone. WDW is for DVCers!! There are six DVC resorts with the Contemporary still to come. I am a DVCer and that's really the only way I can go down to visit the parks three times a year because I couldn't afford the luxury resort rates. I also buy an AP. Wow WDW must really hate me: I don't pay out of pocket for rooms and I only pay the first time for my passes.

To me, Disneyland has WAY too many APers. It is located in a very heavily populated area. That's why. Why do you think it's always a problem when a new ride opens or is refurbished? Because the APers slam the park. The "tourists" don't stand a chance, mostly because they don't know any better.

 

[prberk]

How have we gotten to the point where we even consider saying that a business' repeat customers are a problem?! Like someone said above, any business person will tell you that they are your bread and butter.

WDW (and any business) needs BOTH tourists and frequent guests. They serve complementary purposes. And you want a tourist to become a return guest (who usually is the best marketing for new tourists there is).

So, this argument seems kind of crazy to me. You need both. And the "perks" of being a frequent guest pay for themselves many times over, in ways that are intangible and hard to count sometimes (especially when AP'ers get new tourists to come).

Paul

 

[Nicole220]

I like this pic:

Definitely a scary time at DL when this happens.

 

[Vernonpush]

WDW has NOT survived over 30 years on tourists alone. WDW is for DVCers!! There are six DVC resorts with the Contemporary still to come. I am a DVCer and that's really the only way I can go down to visit the parks three times a year because I couldn't afford the luxury resort rates. I also buy an AP. Wow WDW must really hate me: I don't pay out of pocket for rooms and I only pay the first time for my passes.

To me, Disneyland has WAY too many APers. It is located in a very heavily populated area. That's why. Why do you think it's always a problem when a new ride opens or is refurbished? Because the APers slam the park. The "tourists" don't stand a chance, mostly because they don't know any better.

Yes, and once you visit 3 times in a year and don't see anything new, you will be selling your timeshare to those people "as advertised on TV" who buy Timeshares:lol: . DVC is their new money maker, if the people who visit the parks often (the target for DVC) don't see plussing/expansion/more then they will not buy into the Disney scheme and Disney will not make the money they crave. They have to create a "Buzz of What's New"(even Six Flags does that {or a "Podunk Park" like Alabama Adventure}) to get people to come back. If Disney lets WDW rest on their laurels then those people who have "bought their vacations for the next 50 years" will start selling off those investments.

 

[Nicole220]

To me, Disneyland has WAY too many APers.

Just thought I would add this: Last year our yearbook had a poll that said, Do you have a Disneyland Annual Pass? 95% of our school has one. I do go to a private school, so we're a bit smaller than public, but still- that's a lot of people!

 

[SDav10495]

WDW is for DVCers!!

Shhh, you'll let out Disney's best kept secret!

 

[culturenthrills]

Yes, and once you visit 3 times in a year and don't see anything new, you will be selling your timeshare to those people "as advertised on TV" who buy Timeshares:lol: . DVC is their new money maker, if the people who visit the parks often (the target for DVC) don't see plussing/expansion/more then they will not buy into the Disney scheme and Disney will not make the money they crave. They have to create a "Buzz of What's New"(even Six Flags does that {or a "Podunk Park" like Alabama Adventure}) to get people to come back. If Disney lets WDW rest on their laurels then those people who have "bought their vacations for the next 50 years" will start selling off those investments.

You pretty much have summed up why I think the DVCers will end up biting Disney in the butt. This group is just going to keep getting larger and become more vocal and if they are not happy with the upkeep and quality of WDW resort they will make there displeasure known.

 

[flynnibus]

The park did not have such problems when 20K was open, so adding an E-Ticket to replace the one deleted would not create such a problem, plus it would gobble up some of that crowd on the holidays better than not.

You're clueless. You do know that 20k had a MISERABLE ride capacity right? It suffers just like FNSV does.

Unfortunatly Disney doesn't have the luxury of chosing this. 1-time visitors don't show up in sufficient quantities

They don't? I'm sorry, those 10+million gate admissions are the APs coming back, what.. a few thousand times each?

they cost a lot in marketing to get them to show up, they even get discount dining plans the AP's don't (unless staying on property) just to try to get them to come. So if you delete all the APs you'd have half empty parks and resturants 3/4 of the year. So your return on investment just went out the window with your argument.

Sorry dude.. your concept of AP ratios in the park is way off. WDW reaps in APs by showing them a value by trying to swing a guest to have return trips of 2-3 times within the year period. These APs are not going every 3rd weekend like a high percentage of DLR AP holders do. The AP is more of a 'discount' purchase for WDW.

You are failing to understand the spending behaviors of people on vacation. People do NOT skimp out while on vacation.. that's why food and everything else can continue to be so damn expensive EVERYWHERE you go on vacation. They know they have a captive audience and people are willing to spend more while on vacation then they would in their normal lives. If people skimped out on vacations, those that overcharge for food/etc would eventually have to change their behaviors.. yet that doesn't happen.

I have to disagree about Disney wanting the one time guest more-so than the AP's. Anyone in business or retail knows that its all about creating return business. Creating customer loyalty.

But this isn't retail. You want repeat customers because they are cheaper to get in the door, and you want to increase your number of exposures, to help close purchases. But there are two driving practices you have working here...

you want to maximize your take of the disposable income a customer has - this is where the ticket pricing strategy comes in and the lure of the AP pricing. You want to take someone who was going to spend $100 and convince them to spend $150 because its a 'better deal'. You want them to stay onproperty and horde every one of their spending opportunities to yourself, so you get that higher percentage. A customer only has so much spending ability, your goal is to make sure that spending goes to you

attracting customers with more disposable income is better - the more spending potential a customer has, the better your take will be.

So much of the logic used for 'aps spend more' is assuming the AP is not going to come back otherwise. This is where the first point comes in, disney wants you to buy an AP to 1) get more money out of you UP FRONT then you originally were planning on spending and 2) get you to return more then you might originally have planned. This is why there is so many 'value' propositions built up.. to make it seem worth it to do.

But Disney is not chosing between an AP and a vacationer.. they attract both. But they want the vacationer a ton more then they want an AP holder because the AP's disposible income does not RESET on each trip.. while it does when you have a new guest.

Most people going on a vacation assume they are going to be focusing on the parks and eating and being at their resort, not out shopping.

Well you'd be wrong there. That's why Disney has had a shopping village for decades now. There wasn't any attractions there forever, and they still made sense. Ever been to Vegas? Think those shops are all there just for show? Some of them happen to be the highest producing shopping space ANYWHERE... and it ain't the locals coming out looking for a pair of gucci underwear on a whim.

Generally one assumes they will pick up a couple little souvenirs to commemorate their once in a lifetime trip and thats that. Yes, they might get down there and have a change of heart and want to buy everything under the sun, but if it took them years to save for the trip, then there probably isn't money to go crazy on souvenirs.

You obviously don't have kids.

I am an AP from Virginia who comes more often because of the hotel discounts (which are starting to diminish). More AP hotel discounts for me means more complete trips (usually with tourist friends). More trips means more money spent overall, especially on hotels and food for both me AND my companions.

So, the AP helps Disney get MORE money from me and my companions than otherwise, because I would not come as often (and thus neither would the friends that come along because I happen to be going)....

Yes, see my point above.. the AP is to extract more money from YOU.. but the amount of money you have to spend on vacations does not INCREASE because you have an AP. Where as with a new guest.. they have 'fresh blood' every time to suck dry.

How have we gotten to the point where we even consider saying that a business' repeat customers are a problem?! Like someone said above, any business person will tell you that they are your bread and butter.

Not a problem.. but a new guest represents more spending potential then a repeat guest. An repeat guest isn't going to buy a new set of mickey ears every time they come.. but first time guests may...

 

[CarlHS]

I promised I wouldn't do this, but come on, you left the door wide open.

Are you serious??? You just proved that the system is working fine as is. Why would WDW want you clogging up MK when it's already the most popular. If they can get all the APs to visit MK only 4-5% of they time they go to parks -- then the balance would be found. Way to take the bait. Guess what, they are also keeping you satisfied enough to continue your current patterns and continue buying your AP. YEAH!!! Congrats!!! You are the desired statistic. That keeps the park clear for tourists to visit as they please and keeps you happy at the other parks not wanting MK and causing more gridlock!

So keep doing what you are doing. Keep being dissatisfied in MK. Keep visiting AK, it needs the numbers. It needs the $$$. It needs the positive buzz. Meanwhile the Johnson Family of 7 from Idaho can enjoy their 3 days at MK on their 7 day trip w/ one less person to wait behind. You are proving the argument you are arguing against. I'm really proud of you for winning TOOL of the week on the boards.

:brick:

So much for Debate Over... It's too bad you need to resort to petty insults to those who disagree with you (or those who don’t gobble up your drivel). You said it would be “horrible” if MK got another E-Ticket because you would have to wait on line longer. Some Disney Fan you are.

There’s plenty of room in the Mk to handle an extra million spins on the turnstiles. P&P, MVMKP and MNSSHP hard tickets prove that. There are many days in off season when MK becomes a half day park. You can walk on to pirates, HM, JC, and have 10 to 20 minute waits for Splash and BTMR and many people including the annual visitor spend a ½ day there, get it done and then go elsewhere.

Your “system” was tried and failed at DL and they smartened up and now they are growing fast and furious. If you’d understand the simplest of comments: Adding new attractions, restaurants and bathrooms (hope I’m covering all your needs here) to all the parks at WDW more in line with the growth strategy that you’ve admitted is working at CA.

Furthermore, I never said I’m dissatisfied with MK, I said it would benefit from a new E-Ticket replacing the one deleted. Walt seemed to think it was a good idea to have the subs, but you are apparently superior to even him! Nor would Walt have said “The MK is good enough.” I’ll go with his logic over yours, thanks.

As far as your business wisdom goes, the “dissatisfied” types may be going to AK, DHS and Epcot, but they are also going to SeaWorld, Universal, IoA, and Busch Gardens for 1, 2 or even more days in their 6 to 7 day trip. That’s where you brilliant system breaks down. All those parks have seen attendance boosts (except Universal and it will with Potter Land). So I think I’ll sell my stock when you become the CEO…

 

[wesTcoastY]

As someone who frequents both CA and FL, CA is far ahead on the quality and content levels. These atricles may sound biased, but if you go to CA you have to admit much of the quality is better in a much smaller space. And you can't deny the financial sucess DL is seeing as a result. Why not apply that logic to WDW so it truly becomes the best Disney facility? It really should be the best one afterall, shouldn't it?

Totally agree with you on this one. Having been to WDW and DL two times each in the past year...DL is way better. Its like everything at WDW has been dumbed down since they know they will get the crowds regardless. Its like they half a$$ everything at WDW. Always exceptions though. Like Everest!

 

[CarlHS]

Originally Posted by CarlHS http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?p=2458010#post2458010
The park did not have such problems when 20K was open, so adding an E-Ticket to replace the one deleted would not create such a problem, plus it would gobble up some of that crowd on the holidays better than not.

You're clueless. You do know that 20k had a MISERABLE ride capacity right? It suffers just like FNSV does.

I’m afraid, you are clueless. A new E-Ticket will handle more people than 20K did and therefore not be a problem at all, and the 800 an hour it was doing is 800 an hour more than it’s replacement E-Ticket is currently doing.

Originally Posted by CarlHS http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?p=2458022#post2458022
Unfortunately Disney doesn't have the luxury of choosing this. 1-time visitors don't show up in sufficient quantities

They don't? I'm sorry, those 10+million gate admissions are the APs coming back, what.. a few thousand times each?.

If Disney could fill the parks with 1 day ticket buyers they would love it, but they can’t, there are not that many stupid people. That’s why the 6th plus days on a 6 or more day pass is about $10 per day and also why there are APs to begin with. Disney is doing everything they can to get people into the parks, APs, DVC, Meal Plan, Epcot after 4, etc. The one thing their not doing that they should is to build a new E-Ticket at MK… (…and honestly, the other parks could each use one).

Originally Posted by CarlHS http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?p=2458022#post2458022
they cost a lot in marketing to get them to show up, they even get discount dining plans the AP's don't (unless staying on property) just to try to get them to come. So if you delete all the APs you'd have half empty parks and resturants 3/4 of the year. So your return on investment just went out the window with your argument.

Sorry dude.. your concept of AP ratios in the park is way off. WDW reaps in APs by showing them a value by trying to swing a guest to have return trips of 2-3 times within the year period. These APs are not going every 3rd weekend like a high percentage of DLR AP holders do. The AP is more of a 'discount' purchase for WDW.?.

Look at it this way, the APs have blackout dates to "force" the APs to come when attendence is low. The Vacationers are mostly coming when the kids are out of school in the peak seasons. There are all these events to enourage off season visits. F&W, F&G, MNSSHP, etc. If you deleted the APs (and even the off season DVCs) you would have even lower attendence on the off season. Disney can't afford empty resturants so they have to encourage locals to come off season via APs.

Furthermore, a majority of the FL APs go on day trips if in 1 hour or so's drive, or stay for a weekend every month or two if they live beyond that hour drive. Florida's a big state, and many AP's are 4 to 5 hours away.

Side note for the complaining visitors about APs clogging the lines during peak seasons - most APs cannot come to the parks then, and those who can usually don't, and so it's the bulk of the visitors blocking up the lines.

 

[JimboJones123]

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[JimboJones123]

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[JimboJones123]

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[JimboJones123]

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[JimboJones123]

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[JimboJones123]

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[JimboJones123]

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[Enderikari]

4. Walt never was witness to ADA theme parks. And Safety is the #1 philosophy in "his" park operations. How safe is an attraction w/no fire escape? I double dare you to let the subs go. They really weren't ever that good. I haven't even talked about subs until now anyways. I could give a crap about them. So could most guests. That's part of why they don't exist.

5. So you would rather they skip out on the half day parks and hit the competition. MK will get at least 1 visit from 99% of all Central Florida Vacationers that visit a Disney Theme Park. Many skip Epcot/DS/AK now. They DO NOT skip MK. The current numbers prove it. Where WDW management needs to step up is in the parks that are UNDERPERFORMING.

I love it when people who have common sense post such...