JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
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It's the Tourists...
- Thread starter CarlHS
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JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
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tirian
Well-Known Member
Not to add fuel to the fire, but management knows that it needs another solid E-ticket to spread the existing crowds. Opening at least one more "mountain"--or any big attraction on the level of Splash Mt.--is not going to cause a Guest traffic rush at WDW like it would at DL.
In the meantime, the existing attractions at the MK will continue to be refurbished.
P.S. DL has more attractions than the MK because it was the only California park for years, and it's still the only successful one. I'd rather have the MK's wide, landscaped areas and broad walkways than DL's stacked attractions.
In the meantime, the existing attractions at the MK will continue to be refurbished.
P.S. DL has more attractions than the MK because it was the only California park for years, and it's still the only successful one. I'd rather have the MK's wide, landscaped areas and broad walkways than DL's stacked attractions.
flynnibus
Premium Member
While YOUR spending has increased.. it would still be less if your stay was replaced by another 'one time' visitor.
If you have a choice of a seat to fill.. you want it being filled with the one time visitor going all out.
Your personal tale doesn't address the underlying point. If you have 10 entrances to the park... which will Disney get more out of? 10 different one-time guests or the same AP person coming 10 times.. its very easy to conclude that the people having the Disney vacation of their dreams are going to spend more then the guy/gal looking to relax for a half day.
It's not about dollars per individual.. its about which guest spends more each time they are there.
Getting an AP does not increase your disposible income... only increases the % you may spend at Disney. The more you go, the less revenue potential Disney gets from your 'occupancy'. When you compare that to a 'fresh' guest with built up disposible income ready to blow on their big vacation.. the choice is clear.
DL WISHES it wasn't so reliant on the AP base. Hence why they TRIED to make DL into a destination resort to attract the lucrative multi-day vacationer spending time in AND out of the parks on Disney property. Unfortunately DLR is still a 3 day visit tops.
No where near what I've been saying. They didn't stop improving DL while DCA was built and even now, DCA is getting 1.2 billion and DL is planning another E-Ticket for TL. They seem to know how to do both, WDW does not.
There no reason MK should go 15 years without a single new E-Ticket, much less the deletion of an E-Ticket without a replacement. This does not prohibit WDW from fixing the other parks too. But that proves my point. WDW does one E-Ticket every 2 or 3 years for all 4 (or 6 as so many insist) parks.
DCA already has as much as DHS does and it's going to expand far past them in a few years with that 1.2 billion.
JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
zzz
The park did not have such problems when 20K was open, so adding an E-Ticket to replace the one deleted would not create such a problem, plus it would gobble up some of that crowd on the holidays better than not.
They close the MK on occasion on these days you mention, so parking is irrelivant. No problem to add a new resturant and bathroom either. Now this would help all the other parks you are so worried about too, if MK fills to capacity more (and has enough rides to service that deserving croud of brave souls), those folks who couldn't get in will go to the other parks like they go to DCA when DL fills up.
Also, the new ride every 3 to 4 years you mentioned always replaces a previous ride, so there is no net gain.
Imagine if Fire Mountain or Villian Mountain or a new 20,000 Leagues or any of your favorite rumors were to come to life at MK next week. How great that would feel!
You would really feel horrible if MK got a new E-Ticket? Whew...
You would really feel horrible if MK got a new E-Ticket? Whew...
Unfortunatly Disney doesn't have the luxury of chosing this. 1-time visitors don't show up in sufficient quantities, they cost a lot in marketing to get them to show up, they even get discount dining plans the AP's don't (unless staying on property) just to try to get them to come. So if you delete all the APs you'd have half empty parks and resturants 3/4 of the year. So your return on investment just went out the window with your argument.
socaljoeyb
Active Member
I mostly agree with this. I think MK needs another E-Ticket to help soften the blow of attractions going down for rehab. It seems as it the attractions at WDW don't go down as often for rehab as their Disneyland counterparts. MK has less smaller attractions and shows to spread the crowds when an attraction is down. If a new E-Ticket is built this would help Disney cover the closings similar to the Mansion rehab easier. I think MK could become a world class park if they did a few things (in no particular order).
1. Build a new E-Ticket
- As Tirian says, this would spread the crowds out and maybe make lines shorter on busy days.
2. Rehab Space Mountain
- Disney could go one of 3 ways. A. Keep the old track and just add effects. B. Tear out the track and make a one track rollercoaster (similar to Space in CA, or DLP, depending on how wild they wanted it to be. Because of the double seating it would probably have around the same capacity as the current version. C. Create a new 2 track coaster, which could be an amazing people eater.
3. New Fantasyland
- A new Fantasyland with more dark rides and the Casey + Storybook combo would add much beauty to the MK.
4. A new daytime parade
- IMHO, DDCT is not indicative of what Disney can create as far as entertainment goes and MK deserves a world class parade.
5. Continue the rehabs like Haunted Mansion
- IMHO, rides need to be changed every 10-20 years using better technology if the show is made better. The average visitor might not think of these things directly, but it makes the park and attraction seem fresher and better impresses new riders.
socaljoeyb
Active Member
Al actually seems happy about the way Disneyland is being run now. I definately don't think he hates Disney. Both Al and Kevin have probably complained about some rediculous things, but many things they have mentioned have been spot on. Al also does seem to be pretty reliable with rumors (he doesn't bat 1.000) but who could?
Enderikari
Well-Known Member
Sorry folks, its a simple cost/benefit ratio. Will bringing a 100+ million dollar E-Ticket to the Magic Kingdom encourage 200+ million dollars worth of business? Can the Magic Kingdom even sustain 200+ million dollars worth of business. Keep in mind, the park has been seeing record capacities in the last year or two, do you really think that an E-Ticket would encourage an additional 15,000 fence-sitters to vacation at Walt Disney World? No? Neither did I.
And on a personal note, 20K is dead, gone, and buried (quite literally). It had terrible capacity, was a maintenence nightmare, and a logistical folly. All for an attraction with dated effects, no emergency access, and a crawling queue.
And Fire Mountain/Bald Mountain? Never on the radar, never have been, never will be. Anyone who says otherwise needs to stop talking to contract bit players and interns.
And on a personal note, 20K is dead, gone, and buried (quite literally). It had terrible capacity, was a maintenence nightmare, and a logistical folly. All for an attraction with dated effects, no emergency access, and a crawling queue.
And Fire Mountain/Bald Mountain? Never on the radar, never have been, never will be. Anyone who says otherwise needs to stop talking to contract bit players and interns.
KevinPage
Well-Known Member
WDW will never have as nearly as many AP's, simply because there are not nearly as densely populated as Los Angeles, not even by a close margin.
Central Florida is also a "Service Economy" so you have less people with $$$ than Los Angeles as well.
It has nothing to do with the quality of rides in WDW either. Population & $$$ are in DL's favor.
Central Florida is also a "Service Economy" so you have less people with $$$ than Los Angeles as well.
It has nothing to do with the quality of rides in WDW either. Population & $$$ are in DL's favor.
DisneyWales
Member
This is al a little Stupid now.
MK does not need a new E-ticket, for the reason many have said (jimbojones, enderkari etc) While i feel there is still loads of potential for a new attraction at MK, there is better need for new E-tickets at other parks (AK and DHS).
MK is fine the way it as for at least another 5 years, as long as they keep on top of what they have (HM Plus, Pirates Plus ETC) they will not see a downfall in attendance. Plus if they were to add a new E-Ticket to AK or DHS this will only help bolster attendance at MK as people will visit the MK just because its the "Original Florida park".
If Disney were to add 3-5 other E/D tickets to MK and DHS then maybe they would have to pull one out for MK and Epcot, just so peeps dont see these parks as stagnant parks.
However i think Disney Florida are concentrating on what need to be done, adding more to DHS and AK, and keeping on top of whats at MK and Epcot.
WDW is a law onto its self, it has a global market, bigger than any other park in the world.
While the other parks have some global presence nothing on the scale of the reconition that "Disneyland in Florida" gets.
Here in the UK the 50th Anniversary was for the celebration of disney parks not the original Disneyland in California. As UK people we could join the celebrations at DLRP or WDW, there was no mention to the park in California. That should put into prospective how well California is advertised outside of the US. They stand more chance of getting people from the UK going to DLRP (because is so close) or to WDW (as people know of Sea World/Universal from other advertising). In fact as far as i know i have NEVER seen a Disneyland California commercial on UK TV. I have seen footage from Cali, but it was always with reference to the Park in Florida.
MK does not need a new E-ticket, for the reason many have said (jimbojones, enderkari etc) While i feel there is still loads of potential for a new attraction at MK, there is better need for new E-tickets at other parks (AK and DHS).
MK is fine the way it as for at least another 5 years, as long as they keep on top of what they have (HM Plus, Pirates Plus ETC) they will not see a downfall in attendance. Plus if they were to add a new E-Ticket to AK or DHS this will only help bolster attendance at MK as people will visit the MK just because its the "Original Florida park".
If Disney were to add 3-5 other E/D tickets to MK and DHS then maybe they would have to pull one out for MK and Epcot, just so peeps dont see these parks as stagnant parks.
However i think Disney Florida are concentrating on what need to be done, adding more to DHS and AK, and keeping on top of whats at MK and Epcot.
WDW is a law onto its self, it has a global market, bigger than any other park in the world.
While the other parks have some global presence nothing on the scale of the reconition that "Disneyland in Florida" gets.
Here in the UK the 50th Anniversary was for the celebration of disney parks not the original Disneyland in California. As UK people we could join the celebrations at DLRP or WDW, there was no mention to the park in California. That should put into prospective how well California is advertised outside of the US. They stand more chance of getting people from the UK going to DLRP (because is so close) or to WDW (as people know of Sea World/Universal from other advertising). In fact as far as i know i have NEVER seen a Disneyland California commercial on UK TV. I have seen footage from Cali, but it was always with reference to the Park in Florida.
JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
zzz
djkidkaz
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree about Disney wanting the one time guest more-so than the AP's. Anyone in business or retail knows that its all about creating return business. Creating customer loyalty.
I dont understand the logic that the one time visitor is going to spend more? If you can only afford to go once in your life, then your obviously saving money away for years. I don't see a person like that stashing away a $1000 to blow on souvenirs. Most people going on a vacation assume they are going to be focusing on the parks and eating and being at their resort, not out shopping. Generally one assumes they will pick up a couple little souvenirs to commemorate their once in a lifetime trip and thats that. Yes, they might get down there and have a change of heart and want to buy everything under the sun, but if it took them years to save for the trip, then there probably isn't money to go crazy on souvenirs.
I dont understand the logic that the one time visitor is going to spend more? If you can only afford to go once in your life, then your obviously saving money away for years. I don't see a person like that stashing away a $1000 to blow on souvenirs. Most people going on a vacation assume they are going to be focusing on the parks and eating and being at their resort, not out shopping. Generally one assumes they will pick up a couple little souvenirs to commemorate their once in a lifetime trip and thats that. Yes, they might get down there and have a change of heart and want to buy everything under the sun, but if it took them years to save for the trip, then there probably isn't money to go crazy on souvenirs.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
I think Disney is doing exactly what it needs to be doing right now--big investment in new attractions and keeping things fresh in the 3 younger parks and just some freshening up at the MK. The MK does not need to attract more people--they have the after-hours parties because it is a way to make extra money without overcrowding the parks. The other three parks are the ones that have room to spare to hold more guests, so they will see much more rapid investment (rightfully) to greatly increase profits. Recent spending has done wonders at Epcot and AK, so we can expect DHS's numbers to sky-rocket with the current spending plan, which is great for Disney. The only reason they spend so much money renovating MK attractions is so they can keep up the glistening Disney image and have repeat visitors, since they know full and well that if a family from the UK comes to Disney on its first trip and has a great time, not only will they return, they will tell their friends about how great it was. Therefore, Disney would prefer to have a Haunted Mansion that really wows guests, not a dilapidated one. Disney is fully aware that they probably won't see any direct profits from the HM refurbishment, since you can't really market it, but it will keep the tourists returning. Without tacky practices like closing the MK at 7 pm on August evenings to create an expensive, relatively-unsuccessful after-hours party, the MK is pretty near its invisible ceiling on capacity. It is Epcot that has enough room to chew through probably twice as many guests per year as they currently are--think about it, they see about 10,000,000 guests a year, and many attractions are still walk on while Wonders of Life is closed and most of World Showcase remains unutilized (lots of shopping and dining, almost no attractions). The three young parks are cash-cows in hiding, and Disney seems to be coming to this realization with all the work in Epcot, moving AK toward being a park that can be open at night, and now a rebranding of the DHS.
What exactly is the confusion over tourists spending more than APs? It's a no-brainer. A week at Disney for a tourist costs a minimum of $1000 per person. 7 park days for the average AP costs SIGNIFICANTLY less. If the average AP visits parks 30 times a year on their Premium AP (which should be no problem), that's $20 a day plus the pittance the average AP may spend otherwise, since I doubt they are going into giftshops every day like a tourist. So while the average AP may spend $250 on 7 days in the park, the average tourist would probably spend in excess of $1500. Before someone questions my numbers, I am guessing $750 for the Magic Your Way Package for the week, $250 for airfare, and $500 for food and souvenirs, which I think is pretty much bare minimum for any adult.
What exactly is the confusion over tourists spending more than APs? It's a no-brainer. A week at Disney for a tourist costs a minimum of $1000 per person. 7 park days for the average AP costs SIGNIFICANTLY less. If the average AP visits parks 30 times a year on their Premium AP (which should be no problem), that's $20 a day plus the pittance the average AP may spend otherwise, since I doubt they are going into giftshops every day like a tourist. So while the average AP may spend $250 on 7 days in the park, the average tourist would probably spend in excess of $1500. Before someone questions my numbers, I am guessing $750 for the Magic Your Way Package for the week, $250 for airfare, and $500 for food and souvenirs, which I think is pretty much bare minimum for any adult.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I can agree with that. I'm a Florida resident AP holder. I usually take a day trip once or twice a month and barely even eat there (if anything it's ice cream, pretzel or turkey leg) and rarely, if ever, buy souvenirs. I did buy a shirt and a mug for the most recent SWW. Haha. Soooo ... and for the most part, I'm usually at a park for about 4 hours and then head home.
Sorry if I'm taking this too far OT ... just wanted to add my .2
culturenthrills
Well-Known Member
That post really nails it on the head. I can't believe how many people on here seem to be alright with a stagnate MK.
prberk
Well-Known Member
I am an AP from Virginia who comes more often because of the hotel discounts (which are starting to diminish). More AP hotel discounts for me means more complete trips (usually with tourist friends). More trips means more money spent overall, especially on hotels and food for both me AND my companions.
So, the AP helps Disney get MORE money from me and my companions than otherwise, because I would not come as often (and thus neither would the friends that come along because I happen to be going)....
Paul
So, the AP helps Disney get MORE money from me and my companions than otherwise, because I would not come as often (and thus neither would the friends that come along because I happen to be going)....
Paul